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[Mononoke]

Yea all three sides comes off as bad here tbh so i can't see why Lin gets a pass (especially when the main culprit has apparently changed for the better).

You guys are focusing on ONE moment (which to be fair, is the big traumatic moment they choose to have Lin be hung up on). But it wasn't just about her getting scarred. It was about having a parent she couldn't please. It was about her admiring her mom, and wanting to follow in her footsteps and having her mom be disappointed in her for doing this. Her sister pretty much was a terrible person that was given a free reign to do whatever the hell she wanted (even if it meant committing crimes, or causing tension in the family). The fact that Toph supported this (or at least enabled it), while giving Lin a cold shoulder just for wanting to be like her, is a pretty shitty deal.

The reason I think THIS moment specifically was traumatic, was because her mom finally put her foot down and sided with the sister (despite the sisters actions putting a huge blemish on the family's reputation), all while scolding Lin in the process for doing what was right. It's the pivotal moment where Toph finally DOES something, but chooses to help the sister, while making Lin complicit in this corruption (but in a larger sense, allowing the sister to get away with her terrible actions, at the cost of the family -- literally).

I think you have to look at this in a bigger picture kind of way vs. focusing solely on the moment she got a physical scar by her sister. Although it's kind of sad that a huge gash on her face (that she has to carry), was caused by her own flesh and blood. The only problem with Lin, is that she allowed herself to become bitter. She should have let go a long time ago. I don't agree that Lin should have forgiven the sister (especially when the Sister never deserved forgiveness, and never owned up to what she did)...but she shouldn't have let it control her life, to the point she was unable to grow as a person.

Toph and her sister are pretty terrible people.

EDIT: I don't think Lin deserves a pass (to be clear). It was on her to move forward in life, and not allow her shitty family to poison her. But I still feel sympathy for her, and don't really feel any sympathy for the sister or Toph.

 

[Veelk]

You guys are focusing on ONE moment (which to be fair, is the big traumatic moment they choose to have Lin be hung up on). But it wasn't just about her getting scarred. It was about having a parent she couldn't please. It was about her admiring her mom, and wanting to follow in her footsteps and having her mom be disappointed in her for doing this. Her sister pretty much was a terrible person that was given a free reign to do whatever the hell she wanted (even if it meant committing crimes, or causing tension in the family). The fact that Toph supported this (or at least enabled it), while giving Lin a cold shoulder just for wanting to be like her, is a pretty shitty deal.

The reason I think THIS moment specifically was traumatic, was because her mom finally put her foot down and sided with the sister (despite the sisters actions putting a huge blemish on the family's reputation), all while scolding Lin in the process for doing what was right. It's the pivotal moment where Toph finally DOES something, but chooses to help the sister, while making Lin complicit in this corruption (but in a larger sense, allowing the sister to get away with her terrible actions, at the cost of the family -- literally).

I think you have to look at this in a bigger picture kind of way vs. focusing solely on the moment she got a physical scar by her sister. Although it's kind of sad that a huge gash on her face (that she has to carry), was caused by her own flesh and blood. The only problem with Lin, is that she allowed herself to become bitter. She should have let go a long time ago. I don't agree that Lin should have forgiven the sister (especially when the Sister never deserved forgiveness, and never owned up to what she did)...but she shouldn't have let it control her life, to the point she was unable to grow as a person.

Toph and her sister are pretty terrible people.

EDIT: I don't think Lin deserves a pass (to be clear). It was on her to move forward in life, and not allow her shitty family to poison her. But I still feel sympathy for her, and don't really feel any sympathy for the sister or Toph.

This is a really good post that explains why it affects her a bit better to me.

I think overly long held grudges are ridiculous, but you did a good job explaining why it would affect Lin this long term.

 

[Jacob]

I suppose I'm enjoying of the things you listed. If only they had been booked for 4 Books in the first place :\

I'm glad people are enjoying this season and I don't want to shit on that, even if I'm not feeling as hot about it. I'm not 100% sure that things would have been better with four books from the get-go, though. The creators have said that they like the self-contained stories and fewer filler episodes, and keep comparing TLOK to premium cable dramas. Although the more fillery nature of the most recent episode makes me wonder if maybe some of the other writers they've brought on have convinced Bryke to temper that vision a bit.

Because they help fill in the gaps between the two series (A:TLA and LoK).

They're mostly filling in gaps that really don't need to be filled. Because The Promise and The Search both covered two of the most common fanfic scenarios, there are plenty of stories out there that give more interesting explanations. What's worse than wiping out years of fan theories is retroactively casting the original show in a different light, particularly since they're doing so in a format that most viewers will never read. The worst example of this so far is

Spoiler

changing the Fire Nation royal family's dynamic so that Ozai is a horrible person to Zuko as a form of revenge against Ursa rather than because Zuko is unable to live up to Ozai's expectations/demands the way Azula could

.

They're also caught between making constant references to the original show (which Bryke consider to be deepening the world, which is just ugh) and dealing with fundamentally less interesting material since the everything after the end of the Hundred Year War is inevitably going to feel anticlimactic. Finally, on a more subjective note, I don't think the writing is very good, but others might disagree.

 

[MartyStu]

The whole thing was just, like you said, hokey. This could have easily just been Lin thinking about it before Suyin walked into her room to confront her about her treatment of Opal. They didn't need to bring in a plot device to do it. And I agree, her character transformation was silly.

And her life was hardly ruined. She got a scar and Toph retired early, which is bad, but...like I said, it was 30 years ago and she has long since landed on her feet from any fall out that happened. And Toph and Suyin resolved this years ago, but she shut her ears from it. If this was more recent and still causing problems, fine, but to carry it for 30 years comes off as petty to me.

I think the writers sort of agree with you on how petty Lin's grudge is.

They explicitly address it like a childhood sibling grudge held for too long. Festering.

Lin has based a great deal of the person she currently is on the incident. Meeting direct contradiction to this has created enough dissonance manifest as physical symptoms.

Ultimately, What Lin needed was catharsis, not an apology (even if she deserved it). The fight gave it to her.

In my view, I find the approach clunky, but the intent is clear. Not seeing any of the hokeyness. She seems to be much happier, but there is still quite a bit of friction here.

 

[Deadly]

Some Lin development was nice but is this really the end of it? Seemed kinda anti-climatic... Opal pushing away her aunt/mom was pretty awesome though.

 

[Order]

The thing is tho...

Spoiler

Zuko and Mai broke up in The Promise.

wat

Spoiler

Ty Lee then?

 

[MartyStu]

You guys are focusing on ONE moment (which to be fair, is the big traumatic moment they choose to have Lin be hung up on). But it wasn't just about her getting scarred. It was about having a parent she couldn't please. It was about her admiring her mom, and wanting to follow in her footsteps and having her mom be disappointed in her for doing this. Her sister pretty much was a terrible person that was given a free reign to do whatever the hell she wanted (even if it meant committing crimes, or causing tension in the family). The fact that Toph supported this (or at least enabled it), while giving Lin a cold shoulder just for wanting to be like her, is a pretty shitty deal.

The reason I think THIS moment specifically was traumatic, was because her mom finally put her foot down and sided with the sister (despite the sisters actions putting a huge blemish on the family's reputation), all while scolding Lin in the process for doing what was right. It's the pivotal moment where Toph finally DOES something, but chooses to help the sister, while making Lin complicit in this corruption (but in a larger sense, allowing the sister to get away with her terrible actions, at the cost of the family -- literally).

I think you have to look at this in a bigger picture kind of way vs. focusing solely on the moment she got a physical scar by her sister. Although it's kind of sad that a huge gash on her face (that she has to carry), was caused by her own flesh and blood. The only problem with Lin, is that she allowed herself to become bitter. She should have let go a long time ago. I don't agree that Lin should have forgiven the sister (especially when the Sister never deserved forgiveness, and never owned up to what she did)...but she shouldn't have let it control her life, to the point she was unable to grow as a person.

Toph and her sister are pretty terrible people.

EDIT: I don't think Lin deserves a pass (to be clear). It was on her to move forward in life, and not allow her shitty family to poison her. But I still feel sympathy for her, and don't really feel any sympathy for the sister or Toph.

I...still disagree with this.

The crux of this lies with Toph taking sides. But she does not.

She finds herself in a position where one of her daughters is in trouble and sacrifices her integrity to save her. That is all.

She admonishes Lin because as Su's sister, she should have prevented the situation for escalating in that manner.

Is Lin in the right? Absolutely. She still did not handle the situation with a cool head and allowed her sibling rivalry to dictate how she handled the situation.

 

[Frog-fu]

OK, can someone explain to me what the fuck the earthbender in Zaheer's clique does? How the hell does he create lava?

 

[Veelk]

I...still disagree with this.

The crux of this lies with Toph taking sides. But she does not.

She finds herself in a position where one of her daughters is in trouble and sacrifices her integrity to save her. That is all.

She admonishes Lin because as Su's sister, she should have prevented the situation for escalating in that manner.

Is Lin in the right? Absolutely. She still did not handle the situation with a cool head and allowed her sibling rivalry to dictate how she handled the situation.

Other than not be corrupt, what else was Toph supposed to do?

Send Suyin to rehab as she deserved to be?

What was Lin supposed to do? Let her sister go on stealing shit? No, her sister was acting wrong, she was counting on Toph to set things right, and instead she enabled Suyin by tearing up the police report.

 

[MartyStu]

Send Suyin to rehab as she deserved to be?

What was Lin supposed to do? Let her sister go on stealing shit? No, her sister was acting wrong, she was counting on Toph to set things right, and instead she enabled Suyin by tearing up the police report.

Rehab? You mean prison?

As Su's mother, it is not at all surprising that Toph would go to extremes to keep her child safe.

As I said, Lin did the right thing. She was too aggressive with her approach and that was why she was chided.

My entire goal is to refute this 'taking sides' business. Toph may be a poor mother, but this entire 'shitty person' bullshit is just that.

 

[Veelk]

Rehab? You mean prison?

As Su's mother, it is not at all surprising that she would go to extremes to keep her child safe.

I meant Juvi. As in juvenile detention center. Dunno why I wrote rehab. Anyway, she's under age, so yes, prison for the under age.

So yes. Send the criminal to jail. A revolutionary idea, I know, but maybe someone like the police chief can do it.

No. As I said, Lin did the right thing. She was to aggressive with her approach and that was why she was chided.

Explain what was overly aggressive about it. She was a cop apprehending a resisting criminal. Not brutally, just normally apprehending someone who was resisting.

 

[MartyStu]

Explain what was overly aggressive about it. She was a cop apprehending a criminal. Not brutally, just normally apprehending someone who was resisting.

It is her sister.

She was not chided as a police officer for doing her job, she was chided as a child playing rough with her sister.

 

[Kinvara]

They're mostly filling in gaps that really don't need to be filled. Because The Promise and The Search both covered two of the most common fanfic scenarios, there are plenty of stories out there that give more interesting explanations. What's worse than wiping out years of fan theories is retroactively casting the original show in a different light, particularly since they're doing so in a format that most viewers will never read. The worst example of this so far is

Spoiler

changing the Fire Nation royal family's dynamic so that Ozai is a horrible person to Zuko as a form of revenge against Ursa rather than because Zuko is unable to live up to Ozai's expectations/demands the way Azula could

.

They're also caught between making constant references to the original show (which Bryke consider to be deepening the world, which is just ugh) and dealing with fundamentally less interesting material since the everything after the end of the Hundred Year War is inevitably going to feel anticlimactic. Finally, on a more subjective note, I don't think the writing is very good, but others might disagree.

The gaps "didn't need to be filled"?

We had that whole teaser at the end of Book 3 about Zuko's mom that would have been left unresolved.

And the building of Republic City wasn't hinted at all in A:TLA.

 

[Veelk]

It is her sister.

She was not chided as a police officer for doing her job, she was chided as a child playing rough with her sister.

Which would be fine, if Suyin wasn't a resisting criminal and Lin wasn't an officer, which they are. If Toph is letting her being their mother blind her to the very real criminal issues they are facing, then that just means she is failing as a police officer. And if she thinks it's okay to let her child do what she wants even if what Suyin is doing is criminal, then she failed as a mother. She's given Suyin complete freedom, and is turning a blind eye to her misuse of it when she shouldn't both as a cop and a mother. Lin did nothing wrong whatsoever, but she ignores her pleas and frees Suyin from any obligations because she wants to bury her head in the sand.

Yeah, I don't know if Toph grew up to be a terrible person in general, but she definitely was in that moment. At best, you can say she failed horribly for a reason you find sympathetic.

 

[-Deimos]

OK, can someone explain to me what the fuck the earthbender in Zaheer's clique does? How the hell does he create lava?

Water benders can freeze water, it's only fair that earth benders can melt rock.

 

[fleck0]

I really liked episode 7, I think it's my favorite so far.

Spoiler

"You guys should totally get shaved"

 

[MartyStu]

Which would be fine, if Suyin wasn't a resisting criminal and Lin wasn't an officer. If Toph is letting her being their mother blind them to the very real criminal issues they are facing, then that just means she is failing as a police officer. And if she thinks it's okay to let her child do what she wants even if what Suyin is doing is criminal, then she failed as a mother.

Yeah, I don't know if Toph grew up to be a terrible person in general, but she was in that moment.

I think we both agree that she fails as a police officer. But put in that position, I do not think it is at all surprising that a parent would chose to protect her child.

And it is not about letting her do as she wants, it is about about finding the consequences--albeit deserved--unacceptable for someone she loves.

This is a family spat in the context of a crime. And like most of the family stuff we have seen from this show, it was meant to be gray.

 

[Mariolee]

It's crazy how good these episodes have been. Or at least how much better it is than last season.

 

[Infinite Justice]

You guys are focusing on ONE moment (which to be fair, is the big traumatic moment they choose to have Lin be hung up on). But it wasn't just about her getting scarred. It was about having a parent she couldn't please. It was about her admiring her mom, and wanting to follow in her footsteps and having her mom be disappointed in her for doing this. Her sister pretty much was a terrible person that was given a free reign to do whatever the hell she wanted (even if it meant committing crimes, or causing tension in the family). The fact that Toph supported this (or at least enabled it), while giving Lin a cold shoulder just for wanting to be like her, is a pretty shitty deal.

The reason I think THIS moment specifically was traumatic, was because her mom finally put her foot down and sided with the sister (despite the sisters actions putting a huge blemish on the family's reputation), all while scolding Lin in the process for doing what was right. It's the pivotal moment where Toph finally DOES something, but chooses to help the sister, while making Lin complicit in this corruption (but in a larger sense, allowing the sister to get away with her terrible actions, at the cost of the family -- literally).

I think you have to look at this in a bigger picture kind of way vs. focusing solely on the moment she got a physical scar by her sister. Although it's kind of sad that a huge gash on her face (that she has to carry), was caused by her own flesh and blood. The only problem with Lin, is that she allowed herself to become bitter. She should have let go a long time ago. I don't agree that Lin should have forgiven the sister (especially when the Sister never deserved forgiveness, and never owned up to what she did)...but she shouldn't have let it control her life, to the point she was unable to grow as a person.

Toph and her sister are pretty terrible people.

EDIT: I don't think Lin deserves a pass (to be clear). It was on her to move forward in life, and not allow her shitty family to poison her. But I still feel sympathy for her, and don't really feel any sympathy for the sister or Toph.

Honestly

The thing is i don't think Toph was disappointed in her as she thinks and was more disappointed with a situation where the sisters both chose paths that ultimately placed them against each other constantly (and apparently it was also because they want her love). Even the decision she made was an attempt to quell this but it looked more like she sided with the sister since she gets away with it due to the cover up (which alienates Lin as she felt she did nothing wrong by doing her duty and Suyin not owning up it makes it look like she's using it to her advantage in Lin's eyes).

Toph apparently regretted her actions of quelling this since it clashed with her duty and it caused her to resigned but we only get Lin's side of it and she already alienated thinking her mom was disappointed in her.

I will admit it doesn't help that Toph apparently met Suyin later and buried the hatchet while not taking to Lin but is it a case of Toph, Suyin or Toph/Suyin trying to reach out and Lin not caring (she has done that already) or did she/they actually not contacted her at all? We don't know and maybe will never unless Toph appears.

I'm just not convinced of her being the one that ultimately suffered mainly because of them and not because of some of her actions also played a role (especially where one persons pov is still missing) but eh. Plus she allowed it to fester for way too long.

Also for the forgiving thing if they seem to have really changed i will give them the benefit of the doubt tbh and not still deride them for what they did years ago (which at the end she basically did where she won't be as close as Suyin wants i.e live with her, etc but wont try to murder her lol)

 

[Veelk]

I think we both agree that she fails as a police officer. But put in that position, I do not think it is at all surprising that a parent would chose to protect her child.

And it is not about letting her do as she wants, it is about about finding the consequences--albeit deserved--unacceptable for someone she loves.

This is a family spat in the context of a crime. And like most of the family stuff we have seen from this show, it was meant to be gray.

No, protecting a child from the consequences of their actions is not a good thing for a parent to do. By all means, she should have been there for Suyin to set her on the right path, but a responsible parents would have taught her she can't steal people's things, and that means letting the justice system Toph herself set up run it's course. She totally failed as a mother here.

And there were no consequences. That's the problem. She tore up the police report, did nothing to punish her except "don't let me catch you doing this again" and left it at that. When the consequences of a transaction are 'nothing' then it very much is saying that Toph let them do what they want, and Suyin herself admits as much.

 

[Ezalc]

Episodes were good until this one, the whole Toph and the sisters situation to me was resolved really badly.

 

[Jacob]

The gaps "didn't need to be filled"?

We had that whole teaser at the end of Book 3 about Zuko's mom that would have been left unresolved.

And the building of Republic City wasn't hinted at all in A:TLA.

No, I don't think they did. The Zuko's mom thing was unresolved for four years and while plenty of people complained about it, it didn't hurt ATLA to not see exactly what happened. Zuko's character arc was completed and that was what mattered. Regardless of what you think of the specific explanation of where Ursa was (personally I hated it and think it was pulled out of someone's ass), they retroactively mess with the story they'd already told and press the reboot button on much of Zuko's development (although this had already been started by The Promise). I would rather they had not explained what happened to Ursa instead of fucking with the conclusion of the story, partly out of principle and partly because it was done so ineptly.

Regarding Republic City, we learned everything we need to know -- and we don't need to know much -- about it from The Legend of Korra through exposition and flashbacks. I'm not sure which gaps have been filled with regards to that, especially since the comics storyline hasn't even gotten to the founding of the city yet. All the characters are still teenagers and they're mostly dealing with minor loose ends from ATLA (ends that I don't think needed to all be explicitly tied up JK Rowling style).

 

[MartyStu]

No, protecting a child from the consequences of their actions is not a good thing for a parent to do. By all means, she should have been there for Suyin to set her on the right path, but a responsible parents would have taught her she can't steal people's things. She totally failed as a mother here.

This is a bit too absolutist. Some consequences are perhaps too severe.

I do not think we are to think she did a good thing, just an understandable one. Hell, she regrets it even as she does.

And there were no consequences. That's the problem. She tore up the police report, did nothing to punish her except "don't let me catch you doing this again" and left it at that. When the consequences of a transaction are 'nothing' then it very much is saying that Toph let them do what they want, and Suyin herself admits as much.

She exiled Su. That is an immediate consequence.

 

[Freezasaurus]

Episodes were good until this one, the whole Toph and the sisters situation to me was resolved really badly.

Resolved poorly, yeah. But I think I was just happy to find out how Lin got the scar. XD

 

[Veelk]

Though I can't be sure, I think it was reading Jacob's summaries that really turned me off the comics. I only read the first few issue, and saw the problems he talked about cropping up. Aang going avatar state and threatening to kill Zuko is absurdly out of character.

And there is no way they're going to make the comics necessary to understand the ongoings of the main plot. Rather than trying to develop the Gaang's characters further after they completed their arcs, they should have stuck to doing side stories that are fun, but inconsequential to the ongoings of the main story.

 

[Frog-fu]

I forgot we get 2 episodes every week. Kai is a little shit. lol at Jinorra thinking she's on Tenzin's level. She was less annoying before this bullshit connection to spirits.

Water benders can freeze water, it's only fair that earth benders can melt rock.

I think it's incredibly lame nor do I think the transition from water to ice is quite the same.

 

[Jacob]

Though I can't be sure, I think it was reading Jacob's summaries that really turned me off the comics. I only read the first few issue, and saw the problems he talked about cropping up. Aang going avatar state and threatening to kill Zuko is absurdly out of character.

I'm not sure if I should be proud or embarrassed by this. :lol I'm glad that my reviews/rants of the comics have been read and appreciated, though! Sometimes I worry that I go overboard in my feelings towards them, but seriously, thinking about the comics makes me want to rewatch TLOK Book 2 again. :/

And there is no way they're going to make the comics necessary to understand the ongoings of the main plot. Rather than trying to develop the Gaang's characters further after they completed their arcs, they should have stuck to doing side stories that are fun, but inconsequential to the ongoings of the main story.

Yeah, they're ultimately just part of the franchise's Expanded Universe and will only ever receive a fraction of the audience of the shows, but I think that makes it really shitty that they're doing major retcons and character revelations in the medium. It sucks for fans, anyway, because either you go out of your way to follow the story in a totally different medium (with really slow staggered releases) or you get to enjoy having your theories and interpretations shot down by people who have read them. I don't mean to criticize anyone who brings up the comics in this thread since it's a valid thing to do, but I wish the comics didn't exist in their current form. That's something I'd never say about Korra, despite my many problems with the show.

 

[Veelk]

This is a bit too absolutist. Some consequences are perhaps too severe.

I do not think we are to think she did a good thing, just an understandable one. Hell, she regrets it even as she does.

Uh....Toph herself set up the justice system. If it's so harsh that a child of the police chief cannot be expected to be punished for committing a crime within the realms of reason and justice, that implies a scarier level of corruption on Toph's part than mere nepotism.

And Suyin was stealing huge valuables from people, and Toph sweeping it under the rug is a horrible thing to do as a mother. It is nothing less than a complete abdication of her responsibilities as a parent. She is supposed to guide and teach her child, not immunize her from all harm. She's Toph bei fong. If she can't get good legal representation and a fair trial, there is no one in the city that can.

She exiled Su. That is an immediate consequence.

Because she needed her gone to cover the crime up more easily. She was still being sent to live with family, and it was hardly a permanent exhile. And in any case, Lin's immediate reaction was to say "So once again Su gets to do whatever she wants.", which is what the debate is about anyway. Lin's perspective is that, she doesn't see this as a punishment at all. And, again, Suyin herself said that she was given too much freedom as a child.

Edit: Also, Toph didn't do it as punishment from an officier or as a mother protecting her child. She did it as a political manuever, from the very next line. "The police chief can't have a daughter in jail."

Man, I really hope Toph didn't grow up to be this shitty in most areas. I really hope she was just having a rough day there.

 

[MartyStu]

I forgot we get 2 episodes every week. Kai is a little shit. lol at Jinorra thinking she's on Tenzin's level. She was less annoying before this bullshit connection to spirits.



I think it's incredibly lame nor do I think the transition from water to ice is quite the same.

Tenzin thinks a lot of himself. We as the audience have seen enough to know he shouldn't.

 

[Frog-fu]

Tenzin thinks a lot of himself. We as the audience have seen enough to know he shouldn't.

We, as the audience, have also seen his airbending skills so I disagree.

 

[Hypron]

OK, can someone explain to me what the fuck the earthbender in Zaheer's clique does? How the hell does he create lava?

Maybe by using friction between rocks to generate heat?

 

[Cloud Strife]

Wow, episode 7 gave Bumi some character development! Fucking ace.

Nice to see episode 6 in English. Can't wait until next week!

 

[-Deimos]

I forgot we get 2 episodes every week. Kai is a little shit. lol at Jinorra thinking she's on Tenzin's level. She was less annoying before this bullshit connection to spirits.



I think it's incredibly lame nor do I think the transition from water to ice is quite the same.

It's exactly the same. Waterbenders can extract heat from water to freeze or even melt it. I don't see why earthbenders couldn't do the same.

 

[MartyStu]

Uh....Toph herself set up the justice system. If it's so harsh that a child of the police chief cannot be expected to be punished for committing a crime within the realms of reason and justice, that implies a scarier level of corruption on Toph's part than mere nepotism.

And Suyin was stealing huge valuables from people, and Toph sweeping it under the rug is a horrible thing to do as a mother. It is nothing less than a complete abdication of her responsibilities as a parent. She is supposed to guide and teach her child, not immunize her from all harm. She's Toph bei fong. If she can't get good legal representation and a fair trial, there is no one in the city that can.


Because she needed her gone to cover the crime up more easily. She was still being sent to live with family, and it was hardly a permanent exhile. And in any case, Lin's immediate reaction was to say "So once again Su gets to do whatever she wants.", which is what the debate is about anyway. Lin's perspective is that, she doesn't see this as a punishment at all. And, again, Suyin herself said that she was given too much freedom as a child.

Edit: Also, Toph didn't do it as punishment from an officier or as a mother protecting her child. She did it as a political manuever, from the very next line. "The police chief can't have a daughter in jail."

Man, I really hope Toph didn't grow up to be this shitty in most areas. I really hope she was just having a rough day there.

What other consequence were you looking for (in her capacity as her mother)? Other than being sent to her grandparents, we do not know anything else.

We especially are not given any indication she went back.

An Lin on interprets this as Su getting what she wants because she refuses to look at the bigger picture.

 

[Kinvara]

No, I don't think they did. The Zuko's mom thing was unresolved for four years and while plenty of people complained about it, it didn't hurt ATLA to not see exactly what happened. Zuko's character arc was completed and that was what mattered. Regardless of what you think of the specific explanation of where Ursa was (personally I hated it and think it was pulled out of someone's ass), they retroactively mess with the story they'd already told and press the reboot button on much of Zuko's development (although this had already been started by The Promise). I would rather they had not explained what happened to Ursa instead of fucking with the conclusion of the story, partly out of principle and partly because it was done so ineptly.

Regarding Republic City, we learned everything we need to know -- and we don't need to know much -- about it from The Legend of Korra through exposition and flashbacks. I'm not sure which gaps have been filled with regards to that, especially since the comics storyline hasn't even gotten to the founding of the city yet. All the characters are still teenagers and they're mostly dealing with minor loose ends from ATLA (ends that I don't think needed to all be explicitly tied up JK Rowling style).

I don't feel that it retconned the original series. In the comics, Ozai had his doubts in Zuko from the day he was born as it appeared Zuko was born a non-bender.

Telling Ursa that he was being cruel to Zuko directly because of her actions was just another way to emotionally hurt her.

Anyway, the comics are interesting as they provide some extra info into the Legend of Korra series that we wouldn't otherwise get because the LoK is so much shorter than A:TLA.

Though I can't be sure, I think it was reading Jacob's summaries that really turned me off the comics. I only read the first few issue, and saw the problems he talked about cropping up. Aang going avatar state and threatening to kill Zuko is absurdly out of character.

I have the comics in front of me right now and I can't find where he does that if at all.

 

[Veelk]

What other consequence were you looking for (in her capacity as her mother)? Other than being sent to her grandparents, we do not know anything else.

I expect the same thing expect of any parent who has a child in legal trouble: Hiring good legal representation and supporting her through her trial.

 

[badcrumble]

Really hoping that these villains remain the villains for Book 4. They've done so much in their initial introductions to suggest their strong shared history and then utterly failed to flesh them out as characters... they need more time.

 

[Mononoke]

Not a fan of Tenzin being stubborn and obnoxious. I didn't hate the episode, but I didn't find it entirely pleasant either, personally. *shrugs*

 

[badcrumble]

Not a fan of Tenzin being stubborn and obnoxious. I didn't hate the episode, but I didn't find it entirely pleasant either, personally. *shrugs*

I think the episode was necessary to lay groundwork for the future - in the sense that the next time we see all of the airbenders, they're likely going to be an entirely badass well-trained force that saves the day out of nowhere. They're almost certainly gonna be a deus ex machina but this sort of episode was necessary so it wouldn't feel unearned.

 

[Tuck]

Mostly enjoyed the two episodes this week. Found Toph's behavior pretty ridiculous, and Tenzin being Tenzin again, and learning the same lesson, again, a bit tiring. But overall they were solid.

Episode 6:

The evil water bender has no arms? Jeebs.

Saw a lot of solid character development in episode 6. I'm glad we got to see Lin's backstory and why she is such a hard ass. Really liked seeing Korra and Bolin try metal bending. That said, I found it Lin's backstory a tad messy, Lin's reaction to what happened seemed strong, and Toph's seemed unnecessary.

Episode 7:

This episode was really character driven. Really liked how they spent the entire episode on the airbenders, showing them training and such. Saw some good character development on all sides. Tenzin being typical Tenzin, but he did learn something. My only issue is that its a lesson he has learned several times before.

Gotta say, the pacing of the season is really great. Only concern is that the bad guys haven't been doing much bad stuff.

 

[MartyStu]

I expect the same thing expect of any parent who has a child in legal trouble: Hiring good legal representation and supporting her through her trial.

This is pretty much a shortcut to that. Same familial sympathy except with 100% more corruption.

If you distill your argument: in the case where we let Su fully feel the weight of her actions, we would encourage her to enter a guilty plea and not even bother with all that legal representation/trial. After all, she did the crime, why should her family spend time and money trying to shield her from her actions.

 

[Veelk]

This is pretty much a shortcut to that. Same familial sympathy except with 100% more corruption.

If you distill your argument: in the case where we let Su fully feel the weight of her actions, we would encourage her to enter a guilty plea and not even bother with all that legal representation/trial. After all, she did the crime, why should her family spend time in money trying to shield her from her actions.

I imagine a fair trial would end with her being sent to do community service or something. At worst, spend a few weeks in a juvenile hall. And no, there is no shortcut here. In one, Toph is trying to cover up a crime and have no indication of any punishment aside from that. Even if she sees her leaving the city as a punishment, it's just a side effect of being caught and avoiding her real punishment. She needs to be subjected to the laws of the city, whether they're lenient on her or not, would show her that she is culpable for her actions not just from her family, but from the city as a whole.

I don't understand why you would equate her family being there for her while she faces the consequences of her actions to her family spiriting her away to avoid the legal trial she knows she should be held for. Two entirely different things.

 

[Hamlet]

Really hoping that these villains remain the villains for Book 4. They've done so much in their initial introductions to suggest their strong shared history and then utterly failed to flesh them out as characters... they need more time.

It would certainly be nice if they did carry over to the next season but I'm sure it'll be the same as the other seasons where they are self contained.
Also wish Korra wasn't limited to just 13 episodes would give so much more breathing room

 

[Tuck]

I imagine a fair trial would end with her being sent to do community service or something. At worst, spend a few weeks in a juvenile hall. And no, there is no shortcut here. In one, Toph is trying to cover up a crime and have no indication of any punishment aside from that. Even if she sees her leaving the city as a punishment, it's just a side effect of being caught and avoiding her real punishment. She needs to be subjected to the laws of the city, whether they're lenient on her or not, would show her that she is culpable for her actions not just from her family, but from the city as a whole.

Yeah I agree. Toph's decision was pretty fucked up, and appears to be solely political in nature.

That said... is it unbelievable? Hmm, thats a tricky question. Toph was always one to bend the rules. And we know that her childhood is the reason she gave her kids so much freedom. But her position as police chief and motivations for doing so complicates things. It was a bad call, certainly. But does it fit Tophs character? Maybe. Its a bit of a stretch, I think.

 

[Mononoke]

I think the episode was necessary to lay groundwork for the future - in the sense that the next time we see all of the airbenders, they're likely going to be an entirely badass well-trained force that saves the day out of nowhere. They're almost certainly gonna be a deus ex machina but this sort of episode was necessary so it wouldn't feel unearned.

Yeah, it was going to be a struggle. So I expected these hurdles. The end of the episode was amazing though! To be clear I don't have an issue with Tenzin clashing with new vs old. This idea that he wants to preserve his peoples way of life, but not realizing they need to make a new beginning.

I expected all that. I just don't like it when Tenzin gets angry and doubles down on his stubbornness. This episode has a lot of that so it wasn't entirely pleasant. But I agree with you in that I think if the "re-building the airbender nation" plot is going to be done seriously they need to show the struggles and failures.

 

[MartyStu]

I imagine a fair trial would end with her being sent to do community service or something. At worst, spend a few weeks in a juvenile hall. And no, there is no shortcut here. In one, Toph is trying to cover up a crime and have no indication of any punishment aside from that. Even if she sees her leaving the city as a punishment, it's just a side effect of being caught and avoiding her real punishment. She needs to be subjected to the laws of the city, whether they're lenient on her or not, would show her that she is culpable for her actions not just from her family, but from the city as a whole.

I don't understand why you would equate her family being there for her while she faces the consequences of her actions to her family escorting her away to avoid the legal trial she should be held for.

One forces her to deal with the legal fallout while her family is there for her in her time of need. The other is her flat out avoiding consequence by sending her away from her family because the family can't deal with the political fallout of her crime. Two entirely different things.

Consequences in both scenarios. Just so happens that it is not your satisfaction in one. Which is fine.

Again I do not disagree that Toph did wrong. Just that there is much to sympathize with in her actions. Not simply a cold calculating action.

 

[Tuck]

Yeah, it was going to be a struggle. So I expected these hurdles. The end of the episode was amazing though! To be clear I don't have an issue with Tenzin clashing with new vs old. This idea that he wants to preserve his peoples way of life, but not realizing they need to make a new beginning.

I expected all that. I just don't like it when Tenzin gets angry and doubles down on his stubbornness. This episode has a lot of that so it wasn't entirely pleasant. But I agree with you in that I think if the "re-building the airbender nation"

I think Tenzin's reactions were solid, and typical to his character. Unlike last season with every character being jackasses to eachother, this season everyone has been quite likable, so Tenzin having a Tenzin moment wasn't too bad, and he does redeem himself by the end.

That said, its a lesson he's learned a few times now. I suppose thats one of the big flaws of his character, which maybe means its gonna keep popping back up. And the context of the situation was different than say, teaching Korra. But I would have liked tos ee them at least bring up the connection between the two.

 

[Kai Dracon]

Gotta say, the pacing of the season is really great. Only concern is that the bad guys haven't been doing much bad stuff.

With how many episodes remain I'm beginning to wonder if Bizarro Team Avatar will make their ultimate move at the same time stuff goes down with the Earth Kingdom. Combining the two plot threads into a single throwdown.

 

[badcrumble]

It would certainly be nice if they did carry over to the next season but I'm sure it'll be the same as the other seasons where they are self contained.
Also wish Korra wasn't limited to just 13 episodes would give so much more breathing room

The main issue now is that the show's building toward a war with the Earth Kingdom (Earth Kingdom army plus probably some more enslaved airbenders versus Republic City, the Metal Clan, and probably the new airbenders) *and* a confrontation with the four evil superbenders, and we still don't have a motivation for the latter or a sense of what their actual plan is yet (not to mention very, very little in the way of characterization for them, which is a damn shame).

 

[Tuck]

With how many episodes remain I'm beginning to wonder if Bizarro Team Avatar will make their ultimate move at the same time stuff goes down with the Earth Kingdom. Combining the two plot threads into a single throwdown.

Probably.

Which is concerning cause I don't see how they'd have the time for that. As it is the villains motivations are still completely unclear.

That said, we still have half the season to go and a lot has happened so far. So I imagine it will pick up in the back half.