IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
I got it but I don't have 3DS with me ATM. I will send ASAP when I check the code.
Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 10: Against the Odds, We Choose to Hype!
- Thread starter IntelliHeath
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I got it but I don't have 3DS with me ATM. I will send ASAP when I check the code.
Beyblades
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yeah, we already know what it's. It is customization moves that we have to earn!
I disagree with how he says tier lists should work.
It shouldn't be:
Character (with moveset 1121) : Character2 (with moveset 2312)
Character (with moveset 1121) : Character3 (with moveset 1213)
Character (with moveset 1121) : Character4 (with moveset 2121)
Character (with moveset 1121) : Character5 (with moveset 3312)
When determining matchups because the whole point of customisable moves is that it gives characters tools against certain character matchups (or maybe even player matchups) instead of there just being one "best" moveset (which nobody will ever agree on anyway)
SenorArdilla
Member
It's pretty much Pokemon.
Baron von Loathsome
Member
I was thinking along those lines. This game's metagame has the potential to be absolutely insane.
PadWarrior
Member
Awesome!
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Alt costumes and alt colors would be amazing to unlocking.
At start, we would only have 4 default colors then we would have to unlock last 4 colors or so.
Hyperactivity
Banned
I still think that for customization problems, you should make it such that you decide on a moveset for a character and can't switch that character's movesets at all. You have a limited amount of time to decide on the moveset of the characters you're choosing
OmegaSmash
Member
I hope Double Cherries is an item in Smash Bros.
Double Cherry Ice Climbers :O
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
NeonZ
Member
We also got CDs in Brawl. Anyway, I don't think so. We don't even have stickers confirmed yet. Stickers were introduced in Brawl mainly for the Subspace Emissary mode equipment system. They could be thrown away now that there won't be anything like it and they don't really need to introduce anything.
BassForever
Member
We have clothing and equipment for our custom fighters, miis, and amiibos to find in Smash 4.
GiantBreadbug
Member
I was thinking about that, but I think stickers were also for seeing promo and concept art. I love the idea. I hope they return.
NeonZ
Member
Thinking about it, I wonder if we could get unlockable textures and costumes now?
I don't think that was the main idea though. You couldn't even zoom in on the sticker art, leaving some very small. It seems like the equipment system was the main focus behind them, with viewing and collecting them as a secondary aspect.
I don't think that was the main idea though. You couldn't even zoom in on the sticker art, leaving some very small. It seems like the equipment system was the main focus behind them, with viewing and collecting them as a secondary aspect.
I think it might be possible for each character to have 12 costumes, if you include both alts and colours. Which could be fairly worthwhile if the last 6 palettes (i.e. the non-Brawl colours for each character) are as well-done as NES Open Tournament Mario and Wireframe Mac.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Right, so far I know that we have to earn customization moves. It would be nice if we could earn mii clothing, characters' colors and alt costumes and the equipments.
chaosblade
Unconfirmed Member
I don't really understand the custom move thing at all.
So say you're Mario, you hit B and he throws a fireball. But you could unlock another special move and change it out, so you hit B and Mario does something else?
If that's actually how it works that sounds crazy, and near impossible to balance. Especially if you can do that for most attacks.
Edit: Okay, so each character has three options for each special attack. That makes sense I guess.
I didn't even know about equippable items until I searched for that and found this page though. That sounds kind of... eh.
So say you're Mario, you hit B and he throws a fireball. But you could unlock another special move and change it out, so you hit B and Mario does something else?
If that's actually how it works that sounds crazy, and near impossible to balance. Especially if you can do that for most attacks.
Edit: Okay, so each character has three options for each special attack. That makes sense I guess.
I didn't even know about equippable items until I searched for that and found this page though. That sounds kind of... eh.
If there are 50 characters, and each character has 8 custom moves, there are 400 moves to unlock.. not bad lol
And, each character has 81 variations (mii and Palutena will probably have more)
With 50 characters, there are 4050 possible movesets and 16,402,500 possible matchups
And, each character has 81 variations (mii and Palutena will probably have more)
With 50 characters, there are 4050 possible movesets and 16,402,500 possible matchups
Do you know what character you're going to be playing against before you pick your custom moves, maybe even what stage you're going to be playing on?
These are all factors that you need to think about before deciding your custom moves, it should be stage pick > character pick > neutral special pick > side special pick > down special pick > up special pick (though the customisations can be in any order really) > play.
But if you can't pick custom moves on the CSS then a lot of the appeal of custom moves has just gone right out of the window, because there's no way people will waste that much time going back into a customisation menu if the other player decides to pick a different character.
In the example of Mario, all of his neutral specials are just the fire ball but with different weaknesses and strengths, that's all they are - sidegrades.
They're unlockable variants of each special move that can be set up in a separate menu. For example, Mario's fireball has a few versions with alternate properties - speed, damage, flinching, etc. Most characters will only have those kinds of surface-level variation, but others like the Miis and Palutena do have completely different special moves to choose from.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Well, during E3 demo, I predicted that we are getting 8 colors per characters. Wario might get 16 colors.
BassForever
Member
As long as picking custom specials work like picking assist in MvC work they should be fine, if you have to pre register different styles of each characters with different equipment and such then it'll get thrown out the window.
NeonZ
Member
For most characters, the custom moves are just variations of the standard one, not completely different ones.
For example, Mario's custom B attacks are a fast firing fireball, and a bigger and slower one that causes more damage but has much less range. His custom Down B attacks are a scalding flood blast that burns the opponent, and a high pressure one. Mario's custom Forward B, add elements and change proprieties of the cape attack (Electric and wind). His custom Up B including a flaming uppercut and a seemingly faster and weaker one with better recovery.
Hot Coldman
Banned
I hope for the next game, custom movesets are all in the style of Palutena/Miis. Some characters just need completely new moves available (looking at you, Wario).
Even better, go the Mortal Kombat X route and include 3 different versions of each character.
Even better, go the Mortal Kombat X route and include 3 different versions of each character.
But then you have to allow customisation set ups AND control set ups AND button checks and then you have to allow customisation set ups AGAIN if someone wants to change character or if both people want to change character then that's even more time.
This is assuming you meant "If you have time for button checks, you have time to go into a separate menu and customise moves".
Yeah, pretty much. It needs to be quick and seamless to switch your specials around.
That all depends on how custom moves are saved - if they can be tied to a player name / profile or Amiibo, it's a lot simpler.
theprodigy
Member
Assuming custom moves work how we think they work, that wouldn't take long.
also Smash takes far too long for "button checks", so fuck that
But I'm assuming that will only keep one moveset variation, the movesets you'll want to use could be entirely different based on what the other person has picked, meaning you'd likely have to end up changing them anyway.
Like, if you have a custom set up that's good against heavy characters but weaker to fast light ones, you're not going to want to keep that if the other player picks sheik are you?
BassForever
Member
The problem with that is what happens if I want to change up my move set in case I'm fighting a different opponent
IE
Say for Mario my style is normally fast fireball/super jump/shocking cape/scalding fludd, but when I go up against a Samus main I want to switch to fire orb/super jump/cape/high pressure flood because that moveset works better in that match up. Do I need to have multiple amiibos or multiple saved profiles in case of every possible match up? Or does the tournament need to pause while I go to the customization menu and switch up my moves?
That's where customization could fall apart really fast in terms of the competitive scene adopting it.
That had better not be a clip-on tie.
IntelliHeath
As in "Heathcliff"
Yep, if it's pretty quick, the. It would be amazing if we could get side tourney for customization if people are willing to give it a shot.
We wouldn't know until we get the games. I hope that we would have competitively scene for Smash 4.
Edited: it would be interesting to see what professional players would came up with better moveset.
theprodigy
Member
If you have to switch movesets in between matches, so what, it's not like it will take that long.
If it's quick, there's no need for it to be a side tournament at all.
That falls apart when you're having to do it between every match for every character change in multiple games between hundreds of people and even more matches that all need to be done within a reasonable amount of time.
If sakurai has any sense he'll let us customise them via the CSS, anything else would be far too inelegant.
I think theres some individual, quick acess menu for custom moves, like the one to choose your name
Yeah, just thought about thatAmiibos
theprodigy
Member
This is what I've been assuming the entire time, but ok....
BassForever
Member
Again it depends on how it's saved, if it's saved per profile then having to leave vs menu, go to customization menu, pick the players profile from the 1000s on the system in question, pick the character in question, switch the moves, then offer the other player the chance to switch movesets, then go back to the character select screen, pick characters, pick a stage, repeat
This is adding another 30-90 seconds between every single match, now add that to every best 2/3 or 3/5 match for the hundred of matches in a standard smash tournament and you're adding hours of padded length to a tournament. Smash is already pretty infamous for always going late at events like Evo the last thing it needs is for it to take even longer.
Nah, you do it like counter picks for stages. You can also allow competitors to ban certain moves before the match in order to introduce mind games to it, like DOTA and LOL will allow teams to ban certain player characters in order to take away the advantage of good teams.
The post you originally quoted was talking about it taking too much time if it's in a completely separate menu like custom controls are.
Personally I don't think you should be able to ban moves (if there's a certain move that's good against that character with the rest being shit against that character, having that moved banned would take a lot away from you, whereas the other character might just naturally have an advantage without anything being banned) but you should take it in turns to choose individual special moves.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
So like banning rounds in Dota. I don't get the issue. it's not a massive issue otherwise competitive Dota wouldn't be a hugely popular thing. Moves shouldn't be Banned but it should all be very transparent.
ArchedThunder
Banned
We all know he's going to spill it all over himself.
July 25 and July 26
theprodigy
Member
ok no, comparing it to Dota doesn't make sense from a time perspective
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