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[spookyfish]

The PS4 also has an arguably better controller and arguably better exclusives, but it also has a lot of inarguably better stuff as well.

Sorry, but Green Slime used the "arguably" defense first. It cannot be used for the PS4, and his points must be taken as fact.

 

[Majmun]

I love my Xbox One. Probably the beat console I've ever owned.

Don't know what Jim is so hurt.

Best console you've ever owned? Huh..

Is this, like, your first console ever?

 

[nynt9]

So people and companies can never change?

That's a very narrow way to view the world.

I've made dumb decisions in the past that I would have never made nowdays.

You learn and grow from your mistakes.

The point is that they're not showing humility and not accepting that they made mistakes. They're trying to spin their mistakes positively, which is what the video is about.

 

[Coffee Dog]

So people and companies can never change?

That's a very narrow way to view the world.

I've made dumb decisions in the past that I would have never made nowdays.

You learn and grow from your mistakes.

hahahahahaha

i guess if you think that microsoft will have a change of heart after being visited by the ghosts of NPD's past, present, and future, that it will run through the streets caring about Tiny Tim again, that's an okay position to have.

You just have to understand, corporations don't often have such epiphanies.

 

[licktheenvelope]

So people and companies can never change?

That's a very narrow way to view the world.

I've made dumb decisions in the past that I would have never made nowdays.

You learn and grow from your mistakes.

Ya but you would likely admit you have a problem... Microsoft still feels the customers have the problem.

 

[remnant]

This is going to be an entertaining thread. I wonder how many death threats Jim will receive over the next week, and whether that number would be higher or lower than the week after he does a feminism episode?

Is there any proof that he actually gets these?

 

[Xando]

He actually makes some good points and im inclined to agree with him.
Still blows my mind that they havent even admitted that they tried to fuck us over and still go for the "Gamers werent ready" bullshit.

 

[ironcreed]

Not shockingly, there are people here missing the point.

Yes, Microsoft (finally) started to do the right things with their console, but only after it became clear that each and every thing they did wrong was causing the console to completely tank. It wasn't out of the goodness of their heart, or because they believe that's how a console should be handled. In fact, they quietly seem to feel the opposite; that their original vision is still the best and that consumers either didn't understand it or didn't appreciate it. We (the consumers) are the bad guys here in their eyes.

The fact that they don't seem to have any genuine remorse or understanding of their own wrong-doings when it comes to the Xbox One means they're all the more likely to commit similar mistakes in the future.

Yeah, I get that and realize that all of these corporations tell you what you want to hear and make decisions in order to try and make profit. That goes for all of them. But as for Microsoft, they absolutely did deserve every bit of venom they were getting spit at them for the shit they were trying to pull. I was just as vocal as anyone. But now the Xbox One stands as a better system because of that protest and that is all I care about. I'm not going to wave some moral flag, while holding a grudge and deny myself the great games that I want to play.

 

[twobear]

MS hasn't 180ed the firmware features promised. Can't say the same for Sony.

How's that 'every console is a devkit' promise doing for you?

 

[Neuromancer]

Yep I agree 100% Jim. I'm still waiting for an apology as well. The DRM stuff was horrific and I'm never going to forget it. How they thought we'd all want to sacrifice ownership of our games, and subject ourselves to 24 hour online check ins as though we were thieves and criminals, just for the ability to not have to put a disc in a tray, is utterly beyond me. They deserve all the distrust and indifference that they're getting.

 

[Durden77]

I don't know if they should need to apologize. Really don't seeing that doing much good. But I do know that their horrible desicions, constant flip-flopping, and lack of vision if it doesn't bring in the $$ is probably the reason why I'll never pick one up.

Especially now. Now it's just some weird shell that's pretty much just a PS4. I already have a PS4.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

How's that 'every console is a devkit' promise doing for you?

Look at Jomjom post history. Could be trolling.

 

[Novel Mike]

Unless I've missed something, this feels like a bit of a stretch to me. But I do agree with a lot of this post.

Ultimately here's the real reason Microsoft is backing off a lot of its old original stuff - because Sony is taking them to the woodshed right now.

It's not really a stretch many of the executives have come out and have constantly said that either gamers weren't ready for the Xbox One or its ahead of its time. They blame us for its failure and have yet to even admit they ever did anything wrong.

Which is why I personally won't buy an Xbox One until they man up and admit they made mistakes which they have not done yet.

 

[mightynine]

Ever since last generation, ALL consoles have been the type of device in bold.

The system is only pointless if you were interested in it primarily for either Kinect or Xbox Original programming. That's it. Everything else is still a part of the package.

As for Spencer, he's taken on the responsibility of steering the ship away from the rocks, so to speak. He's realized that gaming is a strength they have, since there were a lot of Xbox 360 fans who were hooked to that system's ecosystem and online infrastructure, and he's likely banking on using that as a means to attain success. Yes, it's being done primarily for business, but realistically, what isn't? We're benefiting, though, because the system is becoming more competitive, it has some great exclusives in the pipeline, and the new focus means we can expect more. The multimedia functionality is still there for those who want it, it's just taking a backseat in terms of the marketing message for the platform. Kinect will likely die, but that's a good thing as far as I'm concerned. It's a neat peripheral, but with limited use in gaming.

First off, I know that. None of them put the media functions ahead of the games. Microsoft did with the Xbox One and is now having to try and convince people otherwise.

Second, so the people who may have bought the Xbox One because of Kinect and original programming are screwed? Sorry for spending your money!

And ah yes, the multimedia functionality is taking a backseat in marketing, yet it wasn't so long along - after the announcment there would be a Kinectless Xbox One - there was Jesse from Breaking Bad showing me on TV all the amazing things the X1 could do, only if a Kinect was hooked up.

And you sitting there complaining that people wanting this console to fail is wrong because there would be likely job losses - if Kinect fails, you don't think that's a possibility?

 

[Metallix87]

How's that 'every console is a devkit' promise doing for you?

Still holds true as of a couple of weeks ago.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2014/07/09/microsoft-flips-on-xbox-one-dev-kits/

“The comments today were inaccurate,” a Microsoft spokesperson told Forbes. “We remain committed to ensuring the best possible solutions for developers and hobbyists to create games for Xbox One. We will share more details at a later date.”

 

[Jomjom]

How's that 'every console is a devkit' promise doing for you?

I'm not a Dev I'm a consumer. I care about things like suspend and resume and 3d bluray support.

 

[Suzushiiro]

There's a difference between "doing the right thing" and "no longer doing the wrong thing," and MS has been doing the latter and trying to pass it off as the former. That's the point Jim's trying to make- that MS isn't 180-ing on these things and going "yeah, sorry, that was dumb, we fucked up, we'll stop" but rather "look at how great we are for no longer doing this shitty thing what we said was awesome but really we shouldn't have done in the first fucking place!"

 

[Armaros]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of the video, so here's a summary for those who keep jumping to conclusions or are just saying stupid shit that have nothing to do with what Jim's actually trying to say.

What Jim is not saying

• The Xbox One isn't a good console or doesn't have games et cetera.
• The Xbox One isn't worth buying.
• People shouldn't be happy with the current state of the console.
• The Xbox One should die off.

What Jim is saying

• MS started out horribly, treated its consumers like shit and blamed them for their own shortcomings. Even now they constantly lie about hardware power.
• People shouldn't just immediately perform fellatio on them for deciding not to treat us like total shit anymore.
• The original vision of the One and the current state is significantly different. The original vision is thankfully dead.
• Devs/Publishers/Industry should try to treat the consumer with respect from the get go and not lie to them and try to deceive them.
• We shouldn't be thankful for them backpedaling and doing the bare minimum, they should be thankful that we still support them now after all they've done.

Don't treat people like shit. It's literally all the vid is about. How is that so hard to understand?

It's easier to not watch the video and just post based on the title.

 

[nynt9]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of the video, so here's a summary for those who keep jumping to conclusions or are just saying stupid shit that have nothing to do with what Jim's actually trying to say.

What Jim is not saying

• The Xbox One isn't a good console or doesn't have games et cetera.
• The Xbox One isn't worth buying.
• People shouldn't be happy with the current state of the console.
• The Xbox One should die off.

What Jim is saying

• MS started out horribly, treated its consumers like shit and blamed them for their own shortcomings. Even now they constantly lie about hardware power.
• People shouldn't just immediately perform fellatio on them for deciding not to treat us like total shit anymore.
• The original vision of the One and the current state is significantly different. The original vision is thankfully dead.
• Devs/Publishers/Industry should try to treat the consumer with respect from the get go and not lie to them and try to deceive them.
• We shouldn't be thankful for them backpedaling and doing the bare minimum, they should be thankful that we still support them now after all they've done.

Don't treat people like shit. It's literally all the vid is about. How is that so hard to understand?

This should be in the OP, because a lot of people are going to do kneejerk drive by posting without watching the video with a title like this.

I agree with these points, by the way.

 

[Jimmyfenix]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of the video, so here's a summary for those who keep jumping to conclusions or are just saying stupid shit that have nothing to do with what Jim's actually trying to say.

What Jim is not saying

• The Xbox One isn't a good console or doesn't have games et cetera.
• The Xbox One isn't worth buying.
• People shouldn't be happy with the current state of the console.
• The Xbox One should die off.

What Jim is saying

• MS started out horribly, treated its consumers like shit and blamed them for their own shortcomings. Even now they constantly lie about hardware power.
• People shouldn't just immediately perform fellatio on them for deciding not to treat us like total shit anymore.
• The original vision of the One and the current state is significantly different. The original vision is thankfully dead.
• Devs/Publishers/Industry should try to treat the consumer with respect from the get go and not lie to them and try to deceive them.
• We shouldn't be thankful for them backpedaling and doing the bare minimum, they should be thankful that we still support them now after all they've done.

Don't treat people like shit. It's literally all the vid is about. How is that so hard to understand?

I can agree with this.

 

[CambriaRising]

Yep I agree 100% Jim. I'm still waiting for an apology as well. The DRM stuff was horrific and I'm never going to forget it. How they thought we'd all want to sacrifice ownership of our games, and subject ourselves to 24 hour online check ins as though we were thieves and criminals, just for the ability to not have to put a disc in a tray, is utterly beyond me. They deserve all the distrust and indifference that they're getting.

The worst of it all for me was them blaming it on us not being ready for "The Future™"

 

[GribbleGrunger]

So people and companies can never change?

That's a very narrow way to view the world.

I've made dumb decisions in the past that I would have never made nowdays.

You learn and grow from your mistakes.

But did you try to rectify those mistakes because you were losing money or did you change because you genuinely realised you were wrong?

 

[jaypah]

The point is that they're not showing humility and not accepting that they made mistakes. They're trying to spin their mistakes positively, which is what the video is about.

Just curious, are people expecting a public apology? Because even as crazy as that would be I can't imagine that the usual pitchforks would be put away. Then it'll just be "but did they REALLY mean it? NEVER FORGET DRM!". You either think the console is worth owning or you don't. Going by the (lol) honesty of a company means you would never buy a console, unless lies have some arbitrary expiration date until that company is A-OK again.

But did you try to rectify those mistakes because you were losing money or did you change because you genuinely realised you were wrong?

I don't think a company would do much of anything that wasn't motivated by money and there's the disconnect for a lot of people. Companies don't feel. Companies don't care. They damn sure don't change their playbook to be friendly. Money. They do it all for money. Yes, you can do it for the money while APPEARING to be the world's best friend. But it's never out of some moral reason, it's for money. Sony played their fiddle and I danced my ass to the store at launch. I know they did it for the money but I don't care because they also offered me a great product and thus the company/consumer relationship was fulfilled.

 

[Sephzilla]

It's not really a stretch many of the executives have come out and have constantly said that either gamers weren't ready for the Xbox One or its ahead of its time. They blame us for its failure and have yet to even admit they ever did anything wrong.

Which is why I personally won't buy an Xbox One until they man up and admit they made mistakes which they have not done yet.

But isn't the fact that they've backtracked on a bunch of things an admission of fault on its own?

 

[Forceatowulf]

I'm very happy about the turn around MS has made with their console, and I have nothing against it as it stands, but I will never trust MS after what they tried to pull.

With that being said I feel what Jim is saying here. Because that's exactly how I feel about Bathesda after the whole PS3 Skyrim debacle. The straight up deception and lack of any real apology can leave a real sour taste in peoples mouths.

 

[jem0208]

Not shockingly, there are people here missing the point.

Yes, Microsoft (finally) started to do the right things with their console, but only after it became clear that each and every thing they did wrong was causing the console to completely tank. It wasn't out of the goodness of their heart, or because they believe that's how a console should be handled. In fact, they quietly seem to feel the opposite; that their original vision is still the best and that consumers either didn't understand it or didn't appreciate it. We (the consumers) are the bad guys here in their eyes.

The fact that they don't seem to have any genuine remorse or understanding of their own wrong-doings when it comes to the Xbox One means they're all the more likely to commit similar mistakes in the future.

This is an extremely naive way to look at businesses. No company does things out of the goodness of their heart or because of remorse. EVERY decision is based on money with these companies. Sony and Nintendo never implemented DRM because they realised consumers were against it and as such they would lose out on sales. Not out of the goodness of their hearts. If they thought they could get away with no used sales (thus increasing profits) without a hit to sales they most certainly would have implemented such a system.



Also the chances of MS repeating these mistakes again are IMO extremely slim. Because they have seen that the consumer base is against it and so they would lose out on sales. No way is MS going to have always on DRM in their next console, unless the competition also has such a system.

 

[ChosenPredator]

I love my Xbox One. Probably the beat console I've ever owned.

Don't know what Jim is so hurt.

I feel like he's so randomly late with this video, like i've heard everything he said come from here, it just seems kind of out of nowhere right now since MS seems to be doing alright trying to change things - these two consoles are still so bran new so looking forward to seeing some more positive vibes coming from both of these guys.

 

[Silky]

How's that 'every console is a devkit' promise doing for you?

Wasn't that a mistranslation/error

 

[RSLAEV]

Its sad that the message of that video is even considered debatable.

 

[twobear]

I'm not a Dev I'm a consumer. I care about things like suspend and resume and 3d bluray support.

Well it's interesting to know that lies are only lies when they're about things you care for.

I feel like he's so randomly late with this video, like i've heard everything he said come from here, it just seems kind of out of nowhere right now since MS seems to be doing alright trying to change things - these two consoles are still so bran new so looking forward to seeing some more positive vibes coming from both of these guys.

You've heard it from GAF but from the games media the response to MS's bullshit has been deafening silence (bar that one Edge article, but even that didn't skewer MS as thoroughly as it could and should have).

 

[Uno Venova]

I can see how you would miss the point if you take any negative look on the system and go straight to the war bunker.

 

[Zvonimir Boban]

Actually, they saw that the Xbox One was selling like shit so they had to do something.

Just like Jim says, I can't applaud them for some shit that makes sense.

But continuing to castigate them does for correcting their mistakes make sense?

PR departments do some PR and people flip their shit. Corporations don't give a shit about us, why would anyone pretend otherwise and try to position them as good guys or bad guys just to justify their own purchases? It's idiotic.

The PS4 also has an arguably better controller and arguably better exclusives, but it also has a lot of inarguably better stuff as well.

Yeah, but we're all refusing to buy PS4s because Sony were dicks last time around right?

Linux gaming PCs for everyone!

 

[Metallix87]

Well it's interesting to know that lies are only lies when they're about things you care for.

Great job skipping over the evidence proving that it was not a lie. Microsoft came out and said that story was mistaken.

 

[nynt9]

Just curious, are people expecting a public apology? Because even as crazy as that would be I can't imagine that the usual pitchforks would be put away. Then it'll just be "but did they REALLY mean it? NEVER FORGET DRM!". You either think the console is worth owning or you don't. Going by the (lol) honesty of a company means you would never buy a console, unless lies have some arbitrary expiration date until that company is A-OK again.

Hey, Sony acknowledged a lot of mistakes they made with the PS3, and people think way more positively of them nowadays, so some companies actually do it and it actually works.

 

[Bornstellar]

This thread is going to be great for creating an ignore list.

 

[ironcreed]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of the video, so here's a summary for those who keep jumping to conclusions or are just saying stupid shit that have nothing to do with what Jim's actually trying to say.

What Jim is not saying

• The Xbox One isn't a good console or doesn't have games et cetera.
• The Xbox One isn't worth buying.
• People shouldn't be happy with the current state of the console.
• The Xbox One should die off.

What Jim is saying

• MS started out horribly, treated its consumers like shit and blamed them for their own shortcomings. Even now they constantly lie about hardware power.
• People shouldn't just immediately perform fellatio on them for deciding not to treat us like total shit anymore.
• The original vision of the One and the current state is significantly different. The original vision is thankfully dead.
• Devs/Publishers/Industry should try to treat the consumer with respect from the get go and not lie to them and try to deceive them.
• We shouldn't be thankful for them backpedaling and doing the bare minimum, they should be thankful that we still support them now after all they've done.

Don't treat people like shit. It's literally all the vid is about. How is that so hard to understand?

I have no argument with that. Just against the people acting like the console should just be scrapped and avoided like the plague because of plans that never happened. I just bought the system and it's actually pretty fucking nice.

 

[twobear]

Great job skipping over the evidence proving that it was not a lie. Microsoft came out and said that story was mistaken.

And until we get to the end of the generation and PS4 is missing promised features it's too soon to say Sony were lying anyway.

 

[Metallix87]

And until we get to the end of the generation and PS4 is missing promised features it's too soon to say Sony were lying anyway.

Great job not apologizing for your mistake.

 

[RazielCuts]

Is this episode 2 months old? Why is the main bulk of this video talking about the removal of Kinect like it's a current thing? Because sales have 'doubled' since the removal? I'm confused, seems like Jim is treading tired ground.

I thought this was going to be about the more recent news of the layoffs and termination of Xbox Entertainment Studios and what that meant for MS but that was mentioned for a hot second. Weird :/

 

[Cat Party]

Hey, Sony acknowledged a lot of mistakes they made with the PS3, and people think way more positively of them nowadays, so some companies actually do it and it actually works.

And how long did that take?

 

[The Flash]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of the video, so here's a summary for those who keep jumping to conclusions or are just saying stupid shit that have nothing to do with what Jim's actually trying to say.

What Jim is not saying

• The Xbox One in its current state isn't a good console or doesn't have games et cetera.
• The Xbox One isn't worth buying.
• People shouldn't be happy with the current state of the console.
• The Xbox One should die off.

What Jim is saying

• MS started out horribly, treated its consumers like shit and blamed them for their own shortcomings. Even now they constantly lie about hardware power.
• People shouldn't just immediately perform fellatio on them for deciding not to treat us like total shit anymore.
• The original vision of the One and the current state is significantly different. The original vision is thankfully dead.
• Devs/Publishers/Industry should try to treat the consumer with respect from the get go and not lie to them and try to deceive them.
• We shouldn't be thankful for them backpedaling and doing the bare minimum, they should be thankful that we still support them now after all they've done.

Don't treat people like shit. It's literally all the vid is about. How is that so hard to understand?

Sounds good to me

 

[plagiarize]

I'm not entirely sure what Jim is propositioning as the more noble alternative, here. I mean, there's certainly valid reasons to criticise, but it's coming across more as grudge-bearing, and if I bore a grudge against every single company that made mistakes - and in many cases, more significantly lasting mistakes - that were detrimental to me in the past, I wouldn't have many games left to play!

Remember when Sony came out and outright apologized for all the PS3 outages caused by the hacking scandal? Remember the goodwill that gave them?

MS seem to subscribe to the 'never apologize, never admit weakness' school of thought, and their fans like to say 'what else are they supposed to do? admit that their console sucks?' like that's the only other option.

That's the part that has Jim and people like myself pissed off. You don't have to say 'our console sucks' when asked about the power gap, but you shouldn't say 'well if you squint and move your sofa back there isn't a power gap'. You say shit like 'We think we've made a really good system that can power great exclusive games like Forza Horizon 2 and Halo MC Collection. If you think we aren't powerful enough, just look at those games. We're also making sure to get exclusive content for multiplatform games like Call of Duty to make sure the Xbox One is the best place to play the biggest games.'

There. You see. No lying. No insulting people that care about things like framerate and resolution.

No Albert Panello bullshit about how the system isn't a third weaker because they invented Direct X.

Don't tell me you haven't got any choice but to do the anti consumer crap that you're doing, to then turn around and say 'Actually we're going to not do that anymore. Aren't we brilliant?'.

No. Apologize. Make me feel like you aren't going to try and pull any anti consumer bullshit you think you can get away with.

Sony apologized, and have been much more pro consumer. It hasn't hurt their bottom line at all, so there absolutely IS a choice for MS's PR people to be more upfront and honest and it would likely bring them consumer goodwill, which would be a very good thing for them right now.

Their inability to apologize is preventing that, so it's hard to have any pity for them.

 

[Markitron]

What is said in the video is true. Tbh I was never really bothered with any of the stuff they did a 180 on, I knew the console just wasn't for me. The DRM on the other hand, is unforgivable. I have owned every major console in the last 20 years but can't see myself getting an XB1. It would take a serious set of exclusives for me to consider one now, the like of which they haven't produced before.

 

[Bundy]

Perfect! He is absolute right.
Especially the Spencer part.
Another reason why I always have to laugh when I see the lol-worthy "I believe in Phil Spencer" pins/quotes on twitter/forums, etc.

 

[remnant]

Hey, Sony acknowledged a lot of mistakes they made with the PS3, and people think way more positively of them nowadays, so some companies actually do it and it actually works.

Some of the mistakes.
4 years after the PS3 was out.

Are they admitting the flaws the PS4 has right now?

 

[Forceatowulf]

A lot of people seem to be missing the point of the video, so here's a summary for those who keep jumping to conclusions or are just saying stupid shit that have nothing to do with what Jim's actually trying to say.

What Jim is not saying

• The Xbox One in its current state isn't a good console or doesn't have games et cetera.
• The Xbox One isn't worth buying.
• People shouldn't be happy with the current state of the console.
• The Xbox One should die off.

What Jim is saying

• MS started out horribly, treated its consumers like shit and blamed them for their own shortcomings. Even now they constantly lie about hardware power.
• People shouldn't just immediately perform fellatio on them for deciding not to treat us like total shit anymore.
• The original vision of the One and the current state is significantly different. The original vision is thankfully dead.
• Devs/Publishers/Industry should try to treat the consumer with respect from the get go and not lie to them and try to deceive them.
• We shouldn't be thankful for them backpedaling and doing the bare minimum, they should be thankful that we still support them now after all they've done.

Don't treat people like shit. It's literally all the vid is about. How is that so hard to understand?

Everyone entering this thread should read this post.

Jim is not shitting on the console it's self, he's shitting on the business practices associated with the console.

 

[Harlock]

I hope next week is about PS4 lacking so much PS3 features.

 

[twobear]

Great job not apologizing for your mistake.

lol

 

[sense]

I'm sorry, who are you arguing with, exactly? I never said we should be thankful. I said it's okay to be glad that things have gotten better. Those two concepts are not synonymous. Also, you and I have VERY different definitions for what "bare fucking minimum" constitutes.

the point of the video is that we can be happy that these changes have come about but there is no reason to be thankful for microsoft. jim even mentions it is good that they made these changes. microsoft doesn't deserve to be congratulated especially when they kept spinning all these 180's as some kind of positive rather than admitting they made a mistake and apologizing.

 

[Metallix87]

Remember when Sony came out and outright apologized for all the PS3 outages caused by the hacking scandal? Remember the goodwill that gave them?

MS seem to subscribe to the 'never apologize, never admit weakness' school of thought, and their fans like to say 'what else are they supposed to do? admit that their console sucks?' like that's the only other option.

Serious question: Did Sony come out and apologize for all of their bullshit about the PS3 and PSP launches?