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[Pilgor]

I'm taking it with a grain of salt.




Is there a link to the whole video? I'm hesitant of taking this at face value due to an apparent smear campaign against this agency.

Here's the documentary.

http://youtu.be/jQvUZDiYSzc

 

[MacNille]

As the conflict goes on, people are using it as an excuse to attacks Jews who has nothing to with the conflict.
http://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/1...uk-as-israel-responds-to-gaza-rocket-attacks/
http://www.timesofisrael.com/wave-of-anti-semitic-rallies-hits-cities-across-germany/
Assholes.

 

[Vire]

Let me be clear here, I am not justifying the killing of 500 innocent civilians. What Israel did was a blatant overreaction to the rockets being fired into their cities.

But, it sends a strong stance that Israel will not be trifled with or terrorized. The United States acts in a similar manner, you hit us, we hit harder back. I do not support this in any circumstances, however, I do support Israel's right to defend themselves rather than just sit there and continue to be bombarded without response.

 

[Gintamen]

I do support Israel's right to defend themselves rather than just sit there and continue to be bombarded without response.

The right to defend oneself includes bombing of hospitals and religous places without any kind of evidence of weapons right?

 

[RustyNails]

Let me be clear here, I am not justifying the killing of 500 innocent civilians. What Israel did was a blatant overreaction to the rockets being fired into their cities.

But, it sends a strong stance that Israel will not be trifled with or terrorized. The United States acts in a similar manner, you hit us, we hit harder back. I do not support this in any circumstances, however, I do support Israel's right to defend themselves rather than just sit there and continue to be bombarded without response.

What is United States' policy when it is occupied?

 

[Dopus]

Let me be clear here, I am not justifying the killing of 500 innocent civilians. What Israel did was a blatant overreaction to the rockets being fired into their cities.

But, it sends a strong stance that Israel will not be trifled with or terrorized. The United States acts in a similar manner, you hit us, we hit harder back. I do not support this in any circumstances, however, I do support Israel's right to defend themselves rather than just sit there and continue to be bombarded without response.

You sound more and more like Mark Regev with every post.

 

[Buzzman]

Let me be clear here, I am not justifying the killing of 500 innocent civilians. What Israel did was a blatant overreaction to the rockets being fired into their cities.

But, it sends a strong stance that Israel will not be trifled with or terrorized. The United States acts in a similar manner, you hit us, we hit harder back. I do not support this in any circumstances, however, I do support Israel's right to defend themselves rather than just sit there and continue to be bombarded without response.

And the Palestinians are just supposed to lie down while they're being occupied and their homes destroyed?

 

[Vire]

The right to defend oneself includes bombing of hospitals and religous places without any kind of evidence of weapons right?

How do you know that there is no evidence of weaponry? The IDF could have military intelligence that leads them to target specific areas.

Again, I do not support these acts and they are a blatant and callous overreaction to the attacks on Israel.

 

[walking fiend]

Let me be clear here, I am not justifying the killing of 500 innocent civilians. What Israel did was a blatant overreaction to the rockets being fired into their cities.

But, it sends a strong stance that Israel will not be trifled with or terrorized. The United States acts in a similar manner, you hit us, we hit harder back. I do not support this in any circumstances, however, I do support Israel's right to defend themselves rather than just sit there and continue to be bombarded without response.

You know, how about Israel first stop illegal settlements, treating Gentiles as second grade humans, stops terrorizing people in the west bank, stop treating 2 million people in the strip as prisoners and then we can talk about a right to defend.

Right now, Israel is acting like a rapist that claims it should defend itself against the victim, because the victim is not succumbing to its fate.

Nonetheless, Israel has the power to use alternative methods to end this farce [e.g. having proper peace negotiations with Palestinians], so it has the responsibility to do so.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Let me be clear here, I am not justifying the killing of 500 innocent civilians. What Israel did was a blatant overreaction to the rockets being fired into their cities.

But, it sends a strong stance that Israel will not be trifled with or terrorized. The United States acts in a similar manner, you hit us, we hit harder back. I do not support this in any circumstances, however, I do support Israel's right to defend themselves rather than just sit there and continue to be bombarded without response.

Ok, lets agree:

Israel responds with might when 2 civilians die over 1000 rockets with might
US responds when any civilians die over terrorism
How is an occupied territory supposed to achieve freedom along with 1500 strikes and 500 dead?


from 1948 to 1989 there was the systemic reduction of land among Palestinians and systemic increase of land among Israelis. 40 years and no suicide bombings. 1989 saw the first suicide bombing the rise of the armed resistance of any significance. How would America deal if it was 80% occupied by China and its reducing American land even further.

 

[Buzzman]

How do you know that there is no evidence of weaponry? The IDF could have military intelligence that leads them to target specific areas.

Again, I do not support these acts and they are a blatant and callous overreaction to the attacks on Israel.

From your own source:

This is a flagrant violation of the inviolability of its premises under international law. This incident, which is the first of its kind in Gaza, endangered civilians including staff and put at risk UNRWA’s vital mission to assist and protect Palestine refugees in Gaza.

UNRWA has strong, established procedures to maintain the neutrality of all its premises, including a strict no-weapons policy and routine inspections of its installations, to ensure they are only used for humanitarian purposes. UNRWA will uphold and further reinforce its procedures.

Or is that source no longer reliable enough for you?

 

[Linkhero1]

How do you know that there is no evidence of weaponry? The IDF could have military intelligence that leads them to target specific areas.

Again, I do not support these acts and they are a blatant and callous overreaction to the attacks on Israel.

Like a beach for example?

 

[Vire]

From your own source:


Or is that source no longer reliable enough for you?

That the United Nations knows of?

Like a beach for example?

I already said, that was a callous and unwarranted response, what do you want me to say?

You know, how about Israel first stop illegal settlements, treating Gentiles as second grade humans, stops terrorizing people in the west bank, stop treating 2 million people in the strip as prisoners and then we can talk about a right to defend.

Right now, Israel is acting like a rapist that claims it should defend itself against the victim, because the victim is not succumbing to its fate.

Nonetheless, Israel has the power to use alternative methods to end this farce [e.g. having proper peace negotiations with Palestinians], so it has the responsibility to do so.

....

 

[Partial Gamification]

Here's the documentary.

http://youtu.be/jQvUZDiYSzc

Thank you. I'll watch it but I'm interested to hear the UN agency's response.

 

[Aaron]

Let me be clear here, I am not justifying the killing of 500 innocent civilians. What Israel did was a blatant overreaction to the rockets being fired into their cities.

But, it sends a strong stance that Israel will not be trifled with or terrorized. The United States acts in a similar manner, you hit us, we hit harder back. I do not support this in any circumstances, however, I do support Israel's right to defend themselves rather than just sit there and continue to be bombarded without response.

Fuck that. Fuck a message for five hundred lives. That's cold-hearted, sociopathic justification for senseless murder. IDF kills Hamas soldiers I have no problem with that. That's war. It's terrible, but it's the way it is. They leveled people's homes, slaughtered entire families... to send a fucking message? That's the thought process of Osama Bin Laden. No country should ever take that stance. That's Genghis Khan raising a pile of heads to send a message to his enemies. It's barbaric.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Very interesting documentary.

Palestinian kids taught to hate Israel in UN-funded camps

Something that's equally as interesting. Unlike yours however, it isn't from a highly biased source.

Nurit Peled-Elhanan, an Israeli academic, mother and political radical, summons up an image of rows of Jewish schoolchildren, bent over their books, learning about their neighbours, the Palestinians. But, she says, they are never referred to as Palestinians unless the context is terrorism.

They are called Arabs. "The Arab with a camel, in an Ali Baba dress. They describe them as vile and deviant and criminal, people who don't pay taxes, people who live off the state, people who don't want to develop," she says. "The only representation is as refugees, primitive farmers and terrorists. You never see a Palestinian child or doctor or teacher or engineer or modern farmer."

"People don't really know what their children are reading in textbooks," she said. "One question that bothers many people is how do you explain the cruel behaviour of Israeli soldiers towards Palestinians, an indifference to human suffering, the inflicting of suffering. People ask how can these nice Jewish boys and girls become monsters once they put on a uniform. I think the major reason for that is education. So I wanted to see how school books represent Palestinians."

In "hundreds and hundreds" of books, she claims she did not find one photograph that depicted an Arab as a "normal person". The most important finding in the books she studied – all authorised by the ministry of education – concerned the historical narrative of events in 1948, the year in which Israel fought a war to establish itself as an independent state, and hundreds of thousands of Palestinians fled the ensuing conflict.

The killing of Palestinians is depicted as something that was necessary for the survival of the nascent Jewish state, she claims. "It's not that the massacres are denied, they are represented in Israeli school books as something that in the long run was good for the Jewish state. For example, Deir Yassin [a pre-1948 Palestinian village close to Jerusalem] was a terrible slaughter by Israeli soldiers. In school books they tell you that this massacre initiated the massive flight of Arabs from Israel and enabled the establishment of a Jewish state with a Jewish majority. So it was for the best. Maybe it was unfortunate, but in the long run the consequences for us were good."

Children, she says, grow up to serve in the army and internalise the message that Palestinians are "people whose life is dispensable with impunity. And not only that, but people whose number has to be diminished."

"Everything they do, from kindergarten to 12th grade, they are fed in all kinds of ways, through literature and songs and holidays and recreation, with these chauvinistic patriotic notions."

Very interesting stuff.

 

[RustyNails]

Fuck that. Fuck a message for five hundred lives. That's cold-hearted, sociopathic justification for senseless murder. IDF kills Hamas soldiers I have no problem with that. That's war. It's terrible, but it's the way it is. They leveled people's homes, slaughtered entire families... to send a fucking message? That's the thought process of Osama Bin Laden. No country should ever take that stance. That's Genghis Khan raising a pile of heads to send a message to his enemies. It's barbaric.

Google Dahiya Doctrine. Intimidation is part of IDF's strategy.

 

[CHEEZMO™]

Let me be clear here, I am not justifying the killing of 500 innocent civilians. What Israel did was a blatant overreaction to the rockets being fired into their cities.

But, it sends a strong stance that Israel will not be trifled with or terrorized. The United States acts in a similar manner, you hit us, we hit harder back. I do not support this in any circumstances, however, I do support Israel's right to defend themselves rather than just sit there and continue to be bombarded without response.

So.. the murder of 500 innocent civilians is entirely deliberate and is part of a campaign of collective punishment? That is what you're saying?

 

[Buzzman]

That the United Nations knows of?

You're right, the IDF is certainly more believable than the U.N in this conflict.

 

[Vire]

So.. the murder of 500 innocent civilians is entirely deliberate and is part of a campaign of collective punishment? That is what you're saying?

That is the only logical conclusion I can surmise as to why Israel would act with such strong measures. Israel claims that they are hiding weaponry in places of peace and worship, but that doesn't explain the beach bombings and other counterattacks they made over the past week.

If we know anything about Israel, is that they will not be bullied into making concessions.

 

[dripdripsplash]

My feelings took hold. I think I should just steer clear of entering discussions with people about Israel/Palestine.

 

[Pilgor]

Unlike yours however, it isn't from a highly biased source.[/URL]

I guess those kids in the video are just actors.

And if you want to talk about schooling,

At a press conference releasing the PMW report in the US Senate building in February 2007, then US Senator Hillary Clinton said:
“These textbooks do not give Palestinian children an education; they give them an indoctrination. When we viewed this [PMW] report in combination with other media [from other PMW reports] that these children are exposed to, we see a larger picture that is disturbing. It is disturbing on a human level, it is disturbing to me as a mother, it is disturbing to me as a United States Senator, because it basically, profoundly poisons the minds of these children.”

The full report is available here.

 

[Vire]

You are a vile human being.

Mind explaining why? I already said I do not support the strikes in civilian territories under any circumstances.

I'm just trying to rationalize in my mind Israel's thought process behind it.

 

[Maninthemirror]

That is the only logical conclusion I can surmise as to why Israel would act with such strong measures. Israel claims that they are hiding weaponry in places of peace and worship, but that doesn't explain the beach bombings and other counterattacks they made over the past week.

If we know anything about Israel, is that they will not be bullied into making concessions.

There is another logical reason:

Israel wants the maximum land it can achieve to really fullfill thier chosen land, that is why they have refused to go back to 1967 borders even after Hamas said they will accept it. Hamas, the terror organization who once said they want to kill all jews changed their charter to say they accept a 2 state solution with 1967 borders. You know Israel will never go back to that because they are building settlements as we speak in land that is being negotiated as being legitimate palestinian territory.

Israel is like a police officer with a rocket launcher vs a criminal called Hamas and the police officer launches the rocket at the thief's home and kills all the family and the israel then says, well he was using them as human shield.

Hamas fires a thousands rocket before iron dome and thousands of rockets after iron dome. Palestinians STILL died in significantly higher number before Iron dome. Israel does not care about collateral damage. Their aim is Hamas, true but it does not care who is around, they will still pull the trigger even if they are civilians in the radius because their end game is killing hamas, not saving palestinian lives.

 

[dripdripsplash]

Mind explaining why? I already said I do not support the strikes in civilian territories under any circumstances.

I'm just trying to rationalize in my mind Israel's thought process behind it.

I edited my post. Sorry for the unneeded comment.

 

[jakonovski]

bullied

What is with your ridiculous word choices? Bullying means someone using violence to assert dominance. Are you saying that not massacring hundreds means the same as getting dominated with violence?

 

[RustyNails]

Vire is making me hate ellie's face with his mental gymanstics to defend Israel.

 

[Vire]

Vire is making me hate ellie's face with his mental gymanstics to defend Israel.

I'm not defending their actions, I'm trying to rationalize and understand what they did. It's the only way I can cope with all of this.

 

[walking fiend]

....

You are severely in error if you believe Hamas is the 'cause' of the conflict between Israel and the rest of Palestinians, just look at the west bank, they do not have Hamas.

Hamas is a resistance idea that was born as a result of decades of oppression and injustice. If in this war Israel kills every member of Hamas, still the Palestinian children who went through the war may become future members of Hamas, Palestinian women will give birth to children that will become members of Hamas. And Israel knows this, and that is why they are collectively punishing Palestinians, to teach them the lesson that resistance is futile.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Something that's equally as interesting. Unlike yours however, it isn't from a highly biased source.







Very interesting stuff.

I guess those kids in the video are just actors.

And if you want to talk about schooling,



The full report is available here.

These exchanges are not good. If both reports or one of the reports is true, then this is a root of the problem. Brainwashing people into this is horrible, I don't care if its the US regarding North Korea, its still wrong to paint a people like that.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

By placing these weapons in civilian territories they are endangering civilians. As the announcement stated, this is a flagrant violation of international law.

Oh, cut the crap. As if you give 2 flying fucks about "international law".

People like you, who pick and choose which violations of international they decide outraged about, while simultaneously and absolutely defending this slaughter, are absolutely hilarious. I'm glad the 200 splattered bodies of dead children in the past few days (never-mind the brutal occupation, experimental banned weapons, and the thousand of instances of Israel disregarding international law) doesn't fit that criteria for you.

 

[Joel Was Right]

https://news.vice.com/article/cellp...d-killed-by-sniper?utm_source=vicenewstwitter

The man, wearing a green shirt and black pants, was reportedly shot by a sniper while trying to cross an alleyway in between two buildings. Soon after, he is shot by two additional rounds while on the ground.

Something has to be done

 

[Maninthemirror]

By placing these weapons in civilian territories they are endangering civilians. As the announcement stated, this is a flagrant violation of international law.

Where should Hamas place the weapons?

 

[RustyNails]

I'm not defending their actions, I'm trying to rationalize and understand what they did. It's the only way I can cope with all of this.

Once you start rationalizing why an army level civilian homes and kill 500 innocent human beings, you need to start being more introspective.

 

[Gintamen]

https://news.vice.com/article/cellp...d-killed-by-sniper?utm_source=vicenewstwitter



Something has to be done

We had that ourage a couple hours ago already. It's saddening and enraging.

Where should Hamas place the weapons?

In the building palestinians aren't allowed to begin with of course.

Once you start rationalizing why an army level civilian homes and kill 500 innocent human beings, you need to start being more introspective.

/search heart ... error error

 

[LNBL]

https://news.vice.com/article/cellp...d-killed-by-sniper?utm_source=vicenewstwitter



Something has to be done

Hope other news sources pick this up too.

 

[Maninthemirror]

We had that ourage a couple hours ago already. It's saddening and enraging.


In the building palestinians aren't allowed to begin with of course.

where do you find such a building in a strip with 10,000 people per square mile?

 

[PeskyToaster]

Oh, cut the crap. As if you give 2 flying fucks about "international law".

People like you, who pick and choose which violations of international they decide outraged about, while simultaneously and absolutely defending this slaughter, are absolutely hilarious. I'm glad the 200 splattered bodies of dead children in the past few days (never-mind the brutal occupation, experimental banned weapons, and the thousand of instances of Israel disregarding international law) doesn't fit that criteria for you.

I don't think any country truly cares about international law. When push comes to shove they get disregarded fairly quickly or loopholes are exploited. Especially in times of war.

 

[Gintamen]

where do you find such a building in a strip with 10,000 people per square mile?

I wasn't serious, making a joke about Vire's idiotic statement. The sentence is pretty self-explanatory with "not" and "of course".

 

[Vire]

Once you start rationalizing why an army level civilian homes and kill 500 innocent human beings, you need to start being more introspective.

I think people are misunderstanding where I am coming from in my viewpoint. As I have mentioned countless times in this thread, I don't condone any action on innocent civilians Israel has taken in response.

My point was to have an open discussion in trying to understand why they would act in such measures. I was playing "devil's advocate" to try and discuss the other side of the coin instead of a decidedly one sided discussion. I am not personally taking sides.

 

[LNBL]

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Very interesting documentary.

Palestinian kids taught to hate Israel in UN-funded camps

Stunning how fucking disconnected you seem to be, posting spurious propaganda about kids being taught to hate Israel, while the world is outraged at the current slaughter and destruction being brought down on kids and innocents in Gaza. Don't you think, that just MAYBE, this carnage is what promotes Israeli hate, and not the shit you just linked? Why, exactly, do you think thats relevant at this time? How utterly and completely crass. Do you know how real, justifiable hate is created? By seeing bodies of your loved ones blown to pieces, and the images we've seeing from Gaza the past week. Israel is creating more potential for radicalization and deep, long-term hatred than a million of these supposed camps ever could. I can't understand what kind of person is unable to see that.

It's also despicable how you pretend this doesn't happen on the other side. Israeli leaders call for genocide. Crowds gather with popcorn on Israeli hills to applaud the Gaza bombs. Israeli kids are made to sign missiles that will soon rip palestinian kids to shreds. And these are people who have not suffered an iota of a fraction of what Gazans have suffered- if even at all.

 

[m_shortpants]

So is anyone going to defend the use of white phosphorous (again) or flechette shells?

....

 

[Linkhero1]

After the previous thread, I'm surprised people bother responding to Pilgor. lol

Wow...

So is anyone going to defend the use of white phosphorous (again) or flechette shells?

....

Do you have a link? I saw it on the Aljazeera blog yesterday but couldn't find it again.

 

[Vire]

Stunning how fucking disconnected you seem to be, posting spurious propaganda about kids being taught to hate Israel, while the world is outraged at the current slaughter and destruction being brought down on kids and innocents in Gaza. Don't you think, that just MAYBE, this carnage is what promotes Israeli hate, and the shit you just linked? Why, exactly, do you think thats relevant at this time? How utterly and completely crass. Do you know how real, justifiable hate is created? By seeing bodies of your loved ones blown to pieces, and the images we've seeing from Gaza the past week. Israel is creating more potential for radicalization and deep, long-term hatred than a million of these supposed camps ever could. I can't understand what kind of person is unable to see that.

It's also despicable how you pretend this doesnt happen on the other side. Israeli leaders call for genocide. Crowds gather with popcorn on Israeli hills to applaud the Gaza bombs. Israeli kids are made to sign missiles that will soon rip palestinian kids to shreds. And these are people who have suffered an iota of a fraction of what Gazans have suffered.

See this is where I have a problem, it's not a one-sided affair where Israel is all in the wrong and that was the point I was trying to make. Both sides have a certain accountability to what has happened.

Your style of debate includes personal attacks and insults towards the other person. I don't stand to reason with someone like that.

 

[Chariot]

Oh no, oh no. This is such a shit.

So is anyone going to defend the use of white phosphorous (again) or flechette shells?

....

As far as I read the thread, the pro-israelis just ignore that part.

 

[LNBL]

After the previous thread, I'm surprised people bother responding to Pilgor. lol


Wow...

Yeah, it's supposedly this building, the Al Salam tower

 

[Dude Abides]

I'm not defending their actions, I'm trying to rationalize and understand what they did. It's the only way I can cope with all of this.

So, so hard to cope. Truly, Vire is the real victim in all this.

 

[Vire]

So, so hard to cope. Truly, Vire is the real victim in all this.

It is hard to cope with actually, as a Jewish native with family ties to Israel, it's hard for me to justify the actions being taken.

I'm not sure why there was needing of mockery.

 

[RustyNails]

I think people are misunderstanding where I am coming from in my viewpoint. As I have mentioned countless times in this thread, I don't condone any action on innocent civilians Israel has taken in response.

My point was to have an open discussion in trying to understand why they would act in such measures. I was playing "devil's advocate" to try and discuss the other side of the coin instead of a decidedly one sided discussion. I am not personally taking sides.

Have you given equal, almost flow chart like justification for Hamas actions? Have you tried to rationalize equally both sides? All I hear is an excuse for IDF after an excuse, with all the evidence pointing to the contrary.