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[Partial Gamification]

Sorry, I got carried away. Yes I got the same emotional response as you did, but these exact horrors of war drive me to be more passionate about the freedom of Palestinians. I get more annoyed when people do "LOOK, Muslims are burning synagogues in a country thousands of miles away" when the thread is about military aggression in Gaza and we already have a thread about the protests in France.

We are all just people, i think I understand where you're coming from. i'm not perfect, keep me in check too.

 

[RustyNails]

Unbelievable.

 

[whytemyke]

Me and my friends were at a demo yesterday at Habima square. It is getting problematic though, as Haggai Matar wrote at +972 at the last big demo: http://972mag.com/the-night-it-became-dangerous-to-demonstrate-in-tel-aviv/93524/

But yeah, we do go out every other day to demonstrate and oppose the massacre.

I usually avoid posting in these threads like it's the plague, but I just wanted to pipe up and say good for you. I think it's awesome for you to voice opposition there.

 

[sonicmj1]

So what gets me is that Natanyahu is basically saying: "They plan on us killing their children to use as propaganda, so we're obliging them."

Yeah, this is what kills me. As a Jew, I want to be able to support Israel, but the current administration clearly has no interest in long-term peace.

Israel had borders as secure as they've ever been, with a government in one territory as cooperative as they could hope. It was an opportunity to move forward in one area, to prove that advancement and cooperation are possible if everyone plays nice. Instead, they offered the West Bank nothing, and collectively punished the community for the actions of those who murdered those Israeli teenagers. They got the excuse they wanted to attack Gaza and punish Hamas. But how does that help anything? If they believe Hamas holds innocent lives hostage, why play directly into their hands by giving them exactly what they need to raise money and support?

There are shitty people on both sides, and they've each done plenty of terrible things that sabotaged the peace process over the years. You can see how little trust exists between both sides just by reading these threads. But since Israel has the most power to make a difference in both territories, it seems to me like it should be their responsibility to take the first step, to find ways to show the Palestinian moderates who absolutely do exist, the people who are sick of all the fighting and just want to live normal, free lives, that there's a hopeful way forward if they lay down their arms and talk. That has to start in the West Bank, and I haven't seen any advancement there. Instead, they strengthen the rhetoric of the radicals on both sides by escalating conflict.

If Netanyahu is satisfied with this status quo, he's doing a disservice to everybody in the region, including his own people. I hate it.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Yeah, this is what kills me. As a Jew, I want to be able to support Israel, but the current administration clearly has no interest in long-term peace.

Israel had borders as secure as they've ever been, with a government in one territory as cooperative as they could hope. It was an opportunity to move forward in one area, to prove that advancement and cooperation are possible if everyone plays nice. Instead, they offered the West Bank nothing, and collectively punished the community for the actions of those who murdered those Israeli teenagers. They got the excuse they wanted to attack Gaza and punish Hamas. But how does that help anything? If they believe Hamas holds innocent lives hostage, why play directly into their hands by giving them exactly what they need to raise money and support?

There are shitty people on both sides, and they've each done plenty of terrible things that sabotaged the peace process over the years. You can see how little trust exists between both sides just by reading these threads. But since Israel has the most power to make a difference in both territories, it seems to me like it should be their responsibility to take the first step, to find ways to show the Palestinian moderates who absolutely do exist, the people who are sick of all the fighting and just want to live normal, free lives, that there's a hopeful way forward if they lay down their arms and talk. That has to start in the West Bank, and I haven't seen any advancement there. Instead, they strengthen the rhetoric of the radicals on both sides by escalating conflict.

If Netanyahu is satisfied with this status quo, he's doing a disservice to everybody in the region, including his own people. I hate it.

Very well put.

I can't see how anyone could argue with this.

 

[zeroOman]

Yeah, this is what kills me. As a Jew, I want to be able to support Israel, but the current administration clearly has no interest in long-term peace.

Israel had borders as secure as they've ever been, with a government in one territory as cooperative as they could hope. It was an opportunity to move forward in one area, to prove that advancement and cooperation are possible if everyone plays nice. Instead, they offered the West Bank nothing, and collectively punished the community for the actions of those who murdered those Israeli teenagers. They got the excuse they wanted to attack Gaza and punish Hamas. But how does that help anything? If they believe Hamas holds innocent lives hostage, why play directly into their hands by giving them exactly what they need to raise money and support?

There are shitty people on both sides, and they've each done plenty of terrible things that sabotaged the peace process over the years. You can see how little trust exists between both sides just by reading these threads. But since Israel has the most power to make a difference in both territories, it seems to me like it should be their responsibility to take the first step, to find ways to show the Palestinian moderates who absolutely do exist, the people who are sick of all the fighting and just want to live normal, free lives, that there's a hopeful way forward if they lay down their arms and talk. That has to start in the West Bank, and I haven't seen any advancement there. Instead, they strengthen the rhetoric of the radicals on both sides by escalating conflict.

If Netanyahu is satisfied with this status quo, he's doing a disservice to everybody in the region, including his own people. I hate it.

Becasue...

After the last big Israeli effort to stop the rockets, in November 2012, it was agreed that, along with a ceasefire, the blockade of Gaza would gradually be lifted and the crossings into Egypt and Israel would be opened. The ceasefire generally held, but the siege continued.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Unbelievable.

Really tough for anyone to believe they're not doing this shit on purpose.

 

[werks]

I love how the default is to believe everything the IDF says and accuse dead children of being terrorists. Israel bombs a hospital and the default answer is prove that it wasn't being used by terrorists.

We get it, everyone in Gaza is scum that needs to be wiped out.

 

[Slurpy2k20]

Yeah, this is what kills me. As a Jew, I want to be able to support Israel, but the current administration clearly has no interest in long-term peace.

Israel had borders as secure as they've ever been, with a government in one territory as cooperative as they could hope. It was an opportunity to move forward in one area, to prove that advancement and cooperation are possible if everyone plays nice. Instead, they offered the West Bank nothing, and collectively punished the community for the actions of those who murdered those Israeli teenagers. They got the excuse they wanted to attack Gaza and punish Hamas. But how does that help anything? If they believe Hamas holds innocent lives hostage, why play directly into their hands by giving them exactly what they need to raise money and support?

There are shitty people on both sides, and they've each done plenty of terrible things that sabotaged the peace process over the years. You can see how little trust exists between both sides just by reading these threads. But since Israel has the most power to make a difference in both territories, it seems to me like it should be their responsibility to take the first step, to find ways to show the Palestinian moderates who absolutely do exist, the people who are sick of all the fighting and just want to live normal, free lives, that there's a hopeful way forward if they lay down their arms and talk. That has to start in the West Bank, and I haven't seen any advancement there. Instead, they strengthen the rhetoric of the radicals on both sides by escalating conflict.

If Netanyahu is satisfied with this status quo, he's doing a disservice to everybody in the region, including his own people. I hate it.

Good for you for thinking for yourself and not being intimidated by others in your community that expect you to tow the Israeli line simply because you're jewish. The 2 concepts have nothing to do with each other. Anyone can be a proud (non self-hating) Jew while also disagreeing with the Israeli gvt's brutal policies and actions.

I have a jewish friend that basically got ex-communicated from his family, and community, simply because he thought for himself and had different opinion about Israel, refusing to be a staunch supporter and apologizer like them. They refuse to even talk to him, and he showed me the nasty emails his own family sent to the entire jewish community about him, which contained nothing but lies and character assassination. It was disgusting, and sad.

 

[refreshZ]

Yeah, this is what kills me. As a Jew, I want to be able to support Israel, but the current administration clearly has no interest in long-term peace.

Israel had borders as secure as they've ever been, with a government in one territory as cooperative as they could hope. It was an opportunity to move forward in one area, to prove that advancement and cooperation are possible if everyone plays nice. Instead, they offered the West Bank nothing, and collectively punished the community for the actions of those who murdered those Israeli teenagers. They got the excuse they wanted to attack Gaza and punish Hamas. But how does that help anything? If they believe Hamas holds innocent lives hostage, why play directly into their hands by giving them exactly what they need to raise money and support?

There are shitty people on both sides, and they've each done plenty of terrible things that sabotaged the peace process over the years. You can see how little trust exists between both sides just by reading these threads. But since Israel has the most power to make a difference in both territories, it seems to me like it should be their responsibility to take the first step, to find ways to show the Palestinian moderates who absolutely do exist, the people who are sick of all the fighting and just want to live normal, free lives, that there's a hopeful way forward if they lay down their arms and talk. That has to start in the West Bank, and I haven't seen any advancement there. Instead, they strengthen the rhetoric of the radicals on both sides by escalating conflict.

If Netanyahu is satisfied with this status quo, he's doing a disservice to everybody in the region, including his own people. I hate it.

Couldn't agree more.

 

[Vire]

Yeah, this is what kills me. As a Jew, I want to be able to support Israel, but the current administration clearly has no interest in long-term peace.

Israel had borders as secure as they've ever been, with a government in one territory as cooperative as they could hope. It was an opportunity to move forward in one area, to prove that advancement and cooperation are possible if everyone plays nice. Instead, they offered the West Bank nothing, and collectively punished the community for the actions of those who murdered those Israeli teenagers. They got the excuse they wanted to attack Gaza and punish Hamas. But how does that help anything? If they believe Hamas holds innocent lives hostage, why play directly into their hands by giving them exactly what they need to raise money and support?

There are shitty people on both sides, and they've each done plenty of terrible things that sabotaged the peace process over the years. You can see how little trust exists between both sides just by reading these threads. But since Israel has the most power to make a difference in both territories, it seems to me like it should be their responsibility to take the first step, to find ways to show the Palestinian moderates who absolutely do exist, the people who are sick of all the fighting and just want to live normal, free lives, that there's a hopeful way forward if they lay down their arms and talk. That has to start in the West Bank, and I haven't seen any advancement there. Instead, they strengthen the rhetoric of the radicals on both sides by escalating conflict.

If Netanyahu is satisfied with this status quo, he's doing a disservice to everybody in the region, including his own people. I hate it.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tunnels-to-kill-and-capture-israeli-soldiers/

Not only was the burrow remarkable in depth and length — 1.5 miles long and 66 feet underground — it was equipped with electricity and contained enough cookies, yogurt and other provisions to last its occupants several months. Israeli forces estimated that Hamas had dumped $10 million and 800 tons of concrete into the two-year project.

Tens of thousands of tons of concrete were put to use to build these tunnels instead of the skyscrapers and schools that were expected when Israel allowed them to have access to the concrete through the blockade.

How can the Israeli government reasonably trust the Hamas and make concessions in cease fire negotiations when things like this are happening?

What would you do in there position?

 

[werks]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tunnels-to-kill-and-capture-israeli-soldiers/



Tens of thousands of tons of concrete were put to use to build these tunnels instead of the skyscrapers and schools that were expected when Israel allowed them to have access to the concrete.

How can the Israeli government reasonably trust the Hamas and make concessions in cease fire negotiations when things like this are happening?

What would you do in there position?

Not bomb hospitals? Or is not committing war crimes asking too much?

They killed 4 pre-teen boys days ago, then bombed the home of their grieving family. Probably to kill the "terrorists" they just created...

 

[DECK'ARD]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tunnels-to-kill-and-capture-israeli-soldiers/



Tens of thousands of tons of concrete were put to use to build these tunnels instead of the skyscrapers and schools that were expected when Israel allowed them to have access to the concrete through the blockade.

How can the Israeli government reasonably trust the Hamas and make concessions in cease fire negotiations when things like this are happening?

What would you do in there position?

How is that a response to his post at all, did you even read what he was saying?

 

[Vire]

How is that a response to his post at all, did you even read what he was saying?

Yes I read the entire thing, he is asking for Israel to make concessions with Hamas instead of firing back at them.

And I'm showing him why you cannot make concessions with them.

 

[Laughing Banana]

That some would try to defend Israel or find reasoning to the kind of things like the one described in the OP with a straight face is just beyond me.

Do these people have no shred of conscious in their self or what? Unbelievable.

 

[Chumly]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...tunnels-to-kill-and-capture-israeli-soldiers/



Tens of thousands of tons of concrete were put to use to build these tunnels instead of the skyscrapers and schools that were expected when Israel allowed them to have access to the concrete through the blockade.

How can the Israeli government reasonably trust the Hamas and make concessions in cease fire negotiations when things like this are happening?

What would you do in there position?

Pretty simple. Not butcher women and children. I don't know why this is even an argument. Nevermind the fact it doesn't even come close to addressing his point. But that seems to be the way of the Israeli defense posters. Always try and deflect the blame or ignore any points made to why Israel are being complete scumbags in the situation. So now please address how these tunnels in Gaza affect the West Bank where Israel has done absolutely nothing to promote peace even though the Palestinians there have tried very hard to make peace.

 

[werks]

Yes I read the entire thing, he is asking for Israel to make concessions with Hamas instead of firing back at them.

And I'm showing him why you cannot make concessions with them.

Can they atleast not commit war crimes? That's the least any self respecting first world army can do.

Literally, thats the fucking least any first world army can do. It's really not a high bar to meet.

 

[MutFox]

Yeah, this is what kills me. As a Jew, I want to be able to support Israel, but the current administration clearly has no interest in long-term peace.

Israel had borders as secure as they've ever been, with a government in one territory as cooperative as they could hope. It was an opportunity to move forward in one area, to prove that advancement and cooperation are possible if everyone plays nice. Instead, they offered the West Bank nothing, and collectively punished the community for the actions of those who murdered those Israeli teenagers. They got the excuse they wanted to attack Gaza and punish Hamas. But how does that help anything? If they believe Hamas holds innocent lives hostage, why play directly into their hands by giving them exactly what they need to raise money and support?

There are shitty people on both sides, and they've each done plenty of terrible things that sabotaged the peace process over the years. You can see how little trust exists between both sides just by reading these threads. But since Israel has the most power to make a difference in both territories, it seems to me like it should be their responsibility to take the first step, to find ways to show the Palestinian moderates who absolutely do exist, the people who are sick of all the fighting and just want to live normal, free lives, that there's a hopeful way forward if they lay down their arms and talk. That has to start in the West Bank, and I haven't seen any advancement there. Instead, they strengthen the rhetoric of the radicals on both sides by escalating conflict.

If Netanyahu is satisfied with this status quo, he's doing a disservice to everybody in the region, including his own people. I hate it.

That bolded part.
Israel does hold the winning hand.
If they truely want peace, they have to start it and lead the way.

Hatred breeds hatred.

Anyone that doesn't see that is blind.
Or brainwashed.

Yes I read the entire thing, he is asking for Israel to make concessions with Hamas instead of firing back at them.

And I'm showing him why you cannot make concessions with them.

Wow, so much hatred.
Your type of mentality commits war crimes.

Just awful and sad.
Hope you see it from a different point of view one day.

 

[Vire]

Pretty simple. Not butcher women and children. I don't know why this is even an argument. Nevermind the fact it doesn't even come close to addressing his point. But that seems to be the way of the Israeli defense posters. Always try and deflect the blame or ignore any points made to why Israel are being complete scumbags in the situation. So now please address how these tunnels in Gaza affect the West Bank where Israel has done absolutely nothing to promote peace even though the Palestinians there have tried very hard to make peace.

So continue to receive thousands of rocket fire that is descending upon your people while you sit there and do nothing about it? What if this was the United States? Where rockets were being sent to every major city?

They tried doing cease fire negotiations through Egypt, the UN and the Red Cross. All three were rejected.

 

[Chichikov]

If Netanyahu is satisfied with this status quo, he's doing a disservice to everybody in the region, including his own people. I hate it.

Netanyahu is satisfied with being elected through fear-mongering, he has been doing it throughout his career.
He made good coin out of it, for him and his rich friends who use the constant crisis mode to cover to fleece the country.

 

[Dude Abides]

So continue to receive thousands of rocket fire that is descending upon your people while you sit there and do nothing about it?

They tried doing cease fire negotiations through Egypt, the UN and the Red Cross. All three were rejected.

Yep. Those are the only two alternatives. Bomb hospitals or receive rocket fire.

 

[werks]

So continue to receive thousands of rocket fire that is descending upon your people while you sit there and do nothing about it? What if this was the United States? Where rockets were being sent to every major city?

They tried doing cease fire negotiations through Egypt, the UN and the Red Cross. All three were rejected.

Not bombing hospitals, and indiscriminately killing women and children isn't doing nothing.

If you feel that the civilian population of Gaza needs to be punished and hospitals bombed then you need to quit pussyfooting around and say it.

 

[Dai101]

Really tough for anyone to believe they're not doing this shit on purpose.

Just give it time and vire will earn a gold medal for mental gymnastics.

 

[Vire]

Not bombing hospitals, and indiscriminately killing women and children isn't doing nothing.

If you feel that the civilian population of Gaza needs to be punished and hospitals bombed then you need to quit pussyfooting around and say it.

Considering they are firing their rockets from all different civilian locations, where do you propose Israel sends their retaliatory missiles?

How should they respond? Honestly? I want an answer.

 

[DECK'ARD]

Yes I read the entire thing, he is asking for Israel to make concessions with Hamas instead of firing back at them.

And I'm showing him why you cannot make concessions with them.

How are the tunnels connected to the situation in the West Bank which the poster was talking about?

 

[Laughing Banana]

So continue to receive thousands of rocket fire that is descending upon your people while you sit there and do nothing about it? What if this was the United States? Where rockets were being sent to every major city?

They tried doing cease fire negotiations through Egypt, the UN and the Red Cross. All three were rejected.

So are you OK with what happened in the OP if it's a "retaliation/response to the rockets"?

 

[Vire]

So are you OK with what happened in the OP if it's a "retaliation/response to the rockets"?

No, I'm not okay with it. I just want to hear someone propose a reasonable solution for how Israel should act instead of just condemning it.

 

[MutFox]

No, I'm not okay with it. I just want to hear someone propose a reasonable solution for how Israel should act instead of just condemning it.

What is reasonable to you? Seems you just want violence for more violence.
It doesn't solve anything, just creates future generations of hate.

 

[ponpo]

To be honest, with all the backlash Israel is receiving, I'm surprised the IDF or higher ups in the government haven't secretly shut down Iron Dome for a day or two. I assume some officials would be willing to let some rockets fly in and have some civilian causalities to get some minor amount of support.

Even if x number of rockets are flying in per day, no one will care if they're doing no damage.

 

[DECK'ARD]

No, I'm not okay with it. I just want to hear someone propose a reasonable solution for how Israel should act instead of just condemning it.

Ironically that is exactly what that poster did, before you posted an unrelated news article to shift the argument.

 

[werks]

No, I'm not okay with it. I just want to hear someone propose a reasonable solution for how Israel should act instead of just condemning it.

DONT ATTACK THE FUCKING HOSPITAL. ITS A FUCKING WAR CRIME.

 

[Chichikov]

Yep. Those are the only two alternatives. Bomb hospitals or receive rocket fire.

I said it a million times in this thread, if those bombing could've stopped the rocket fire you could have had an argument about whether or not the civilian dearth toll is worth it.
But they don't.
Those are mostly punitive bombing meant to show that Bibi is "tough on terror".
There is also is fucking stupid idea that if yo make life miserable enough in Gaza they'll overthrow Hamas and put a more Israel friendly regime, that's the idea behind the blockade as well (don't buy that "weapons smuggling" bullshit, Israel ration the amount of chocolate allowed in Gaza)..
I don't know why anyone think that killing kids is going to make them hate Israel less, but at this point, we had enough bloody data points to see that it's not working.

 

[Vire]

What is reasonable to you? Seems you just want violence for more violence.
It doesn't solve anything, just creates future generations of hate.

I don't want any violence.

I've been hoping for a cease fire since this has started.

DONT ATTACK THE FUCKING HOSPITAL. ITS A FUCKING WAR CRIME.

So it's okay when Hamas does it to Israel?

 

[collige]

To be honest, with all the backlash Israel is receiving, I'm surprised the IDF or higher ups in the government haven't secretly shut down Iron Dome for a day or two. I assume some officials would be willing to let some rockets fly in and have some civilian causalities to get some minor amount of support.

Even if x number of rockets are flying in per day, no one will care if they're doing no damage.

Plenty of people care despite them doing no damage. The Israeli fatality count was at 1 before the ground operation started and Israel's "right to defend itself" was brought up repeatedly before then.

 

[MutFox]

Is it true that fundamentalist Jews see themselves as a master race,
and that other races are beneath them?

Someone told me that, and I've been searching for facts online.
All I've found is chosen people stuff, but that's about it.

I don't think it's true, but religion is strange at times.

 

[ramuh]

So continue to receive thousands of rocket fire that is descending upon your people while you sit there and do nothing about it? What if this was the United States? Where rockets were being sent to every major city?

They tried doing cease fire negotiations through Egypt, the UN and the Red Cross. All three were rejected.

What's Hamas funding nowadays? I know Iran is not giving them 20 million a month anymore because they backed the Sunnis in Syrian conflict. I know Egypt closed the tunnels and crossings thereby denying Hamas of critical funding/goods. In the end the Palestinian people will suffer them most. I dislike the Hamas organization and feel there just as bad at continuing a cyclic series of attrition and wars with the Israel Government just so they can drum up some international money. Didn't the US just authorize 47 million dollars for humanitarian aid? That's money Hamas doesn't have to spend to feed it's own people. The other side is Israel under the current Government probably doesn't want a complete peace as it feeds their own agenda. Didn't Netanyahu pretty much dismantle the Oslo Accords during his first premiership? So this "war" plays into both their hands. A "peace" will be had but it usually comes after a thousand or so Palestinian deaths/Israeli deaths. While Hamas in power, the current Israeli Government in power there will be no lasting peace for either side. It's so strange to see the secular Fatah Government as the most level headed group in this.

 

[ponpo]

Plenty of people care despite them doing no damage. The Israeli fatality count was at 1 before the ground operation started and Israel's "right to defend itself" was brought up repeatedly before then.

I suppose, but criticizing intent vs. outcome is probably different in severity. I imagine more people would be less critical if all those rockets were doing any sort of visible damage.

It's almost like kids throwing rocks at tanks. Yeah they probably shouldn't be doing that, but most aren't going to be super critical because the intent has little to no effect.

 

[Laughing Banana]

No, I'm not okay with it. I just want to hear someone propose a reasonable solution for how Israel should act instead of just condemning it.

Well, it seems like you are aggravated by people condemning the act that you yourself has admitted as being "not okay" with.

It's as if you're saying, "Oh, you're condemning the shelling? Well what do YOU think Israel should do then, instead of doing this?"

Your act of being seemingly aggravated by people condemning what would easily constitute as a war crime in the mind of sane, logical people just puzzled me.

So it's okay when Hamas does it to Israel?

Oh, and here we have "I am assuming you're okay with Act A because you condemn Act B" thing. If werks are not okay with the act of bombing/shelling hospital and would consider it as a war crime, what makes you automatically think that he would be okay if the ones doing it are Hamas? Other than to make him look bad, I mean.

 

[Vire]

What's Hamas funding nowadays? I know Iran is not giving them 20 million a month anymore because they backed the Sunnis in Syrian conflict. I know Egypt closed the tunnels and crossings thereby denying Hamas of critical funding/goods. In the end the Palestinian people will suffer them most. I dislike the Hamas organization and feel there just as bad at continuing a cyclic series of attrition and wars with the Israel Government just so they can drum up some international money. Didn't the US just authorize 47 million dollars for humanitarian aid? That's money Hamas doesn't have to spend to feed it's own people. The other side is Israel under the current Government probably doesn't want a complete peace as it feeds their own agenda. Didn't Netanyahu pretty much dismantle the Oslo Accords during his first premiership? So this "war" plays into both their hands. A "peace" will be had but it usually comes after a thousand or so Palestinian deaths/Israeli deaths. While Hamas in power, the current Israeli Government in power there will be no lasting peace for either side.

I agree with all of this.

 

[Chumly]

No, I'm not okay with it. I just want to hear someone propose a reasonable solution for how Israel should act instead of just condemning it.

The poster you initially responded too had a extremely reasonable point for how Israel should act and you just glossed right over it.

If fact you completely ignored his point and tried to deflect the conversation.

Ironically that is exactly what that poster did, before you posted an unrelated news article to shift the argument.

These IDF defenders make this an Art. Hey look someone made a good point. Let's post something that has nothing to do with what they said in response.

 

[zer0blivion]

GAZA: THE IDF EXPLAINS ITSELF: http://youtu.be/4J1iZTMaYa4

 

[werks]

I don't want any violence.

I've been hoping for a cease fire since this has started.



So it's okay when Hamas does it to Israel?

Does Israel want the same legitimacy as Hamas? Does Israel have same unguided rockets as Hamas or do they use precision artillery used by a professionally trained Army?

What is your point? If Israel is going to Hamas' level, then they need to face complete international isolation and be treated as a pariah state.

You can't want international support for being a "liberal democracy" while committing war crimes.

Either you follow the rules of war or you are treated as a pariah state. Take your pick.

 

[Razgreez]

Well, it seems like you are aggravated by people condemning the act that you yourself has admitted as being "not okay" with.

It's as if you're saying, "Oh, you're condemning the shelling? Well what do YOU think Israel should do then, instead of doing this?"

Your act of being seemingly aggravated by people condemning what would easily constitute as a war crime in the mind of sane, logical people just puzzled me.



Oh, and here we have "I am assuming you're okay with Act A because you condemn Act B" thing. If werks are not okay with the act of bombing/shelling hospital and would consider it as a war crime, what makes you automatically think that he would be okay if the ones doing it are Hamas? Other than to make him look bad, I mean.

It's called hypocrisy. Note that vire is the only zionist supporter on shift here at the moment. The others likely have their hands full propagating their lies and illogical claims elswhere

 

[hydragonwarrior]

So it's okay when Hamas does it to Israel?

An eye for an eye leaves everybody blind. Given what's happening right now, the Hamas that comes out of the ashes here will almost certainly feel it's OK to do that.

And to your witty comment, no it's not okay for either side to do it, but apparently they will keep doing it anyway. If they hit another building or hospital we can say IDF really doesn't give a shit about the Palestinian people, much like Hamas extremists don't give a shit about Israeli's.

 

[Codeblue]

Yes I read the entire thing, he is asking for Israel to make concessions with Hamas instead of firing back at them.

And I'm showing him why you cannot make concessions with them.

And why can't the make concessions with the PLO?

 

[werks]

And why can't the make concessions with the PLO?

Because they would rather make settlements.

 

[Aaron]

Considering they are firing their rockets from all different civilian locations, where do you propose Israel sends their retaliatory missiles?

How should they respond? Honestly? I want an answer.

Let's get this sequence of events right. The IDF killed two Palestian boys for no reason, and Israel suffered no reprisal because of that. Now three Israel boys were captured and killed, but there's no proof that Hamas or anyone in Palestine had anything to do with it. Still, Israel makes a big sweep, imprisoning and torturing Palestinians, including an American boy.

If you go into someone's house and kill their son, you don't get to claim you were only acting in self-defense when you shoot the rest of the family for going after you. Though Israel would bomb their house, their neighbor's home, and pretty much all the public utilities in the area. Do these really sound like defensive realitaion to you?

Israel is going to bomb and kill as much as they can get away with. Then they'll find a reason to stop to make themselves look magnanimous, creating a cease fire or treaty that they will later break to start it all over again. They're going to keep doing this until someone in power calls them out on it, and no one ever will.

 

[heidern]

Yes I read the entire thing, he is asking for Israel to make concessions with Hamas instead of firing back at them.

And I'm showing him why you cannot make concessions with them.

The problem is Hamas can't really make concessions with Israel either because Israel are committing war crimes, stealing their land, infringing on a multitude of their human rights and denying them their freedom.

 

[imtehman]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/...lestinians-airtime_n_5606673.html?cps=gravity

someone decided to call out msnbc on thier media bias... and subsequently not get any more tv appearances

 

[ramuh]

And why can't the make concessions with the PLO?

That the quandary. The Israeli side is saying that since there "unified" (not really) the PLO is responsible for all of the Terrorist Organization Hamas rocket fire, etc. PLO is actually trying to unify all parties so they can have a legitimate shot at a recognized Country by the UN. It's why they abandoned calling for Israel's destruction in their charter etc. In essence the PLO doesn't really exist in the Gaza Strip although I would like to see that happen.

Hamas only wanted the unity government so the West Bank could pay for it's 45000 or so Government employees and militias since they don't have any money coming in anymore. Always follow the money.