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[RicoTheMad]

Sorry but I'm gonna have to say No to this video. There's plenty of things to be outraged about out there but this is so far down the list it's not even funny.

Companies are running a business. Surprise, businesses are trying to part you from your money! GASP!

Be an informed consumer. Don't be a fanboy. Buy the machine that works for you, based on the PRESENT conditions. Would you buy a PS5 tomorrow if Sony charged you 5 grand for it, because they were so nice to us this generation in relation to MS?

I own a PS4 but I'm not a puppet. I try to get the best bang for my buck whenever I buy anything.

Clickbait video imho.

 

[Quadraphonic]

One could argue that during the Xbox 360 RROD, a lot of people were invested in a console like never before.

Digital games + achievements + online subscription already paid for meant you had an investment in a console beyond simply giving up and selling the games.

Instead of just taking the broken piece of shit into Gamestop and a stack of games for 75c a piece, there's more things that make you apprehensive to get rid of it.

You're right, the Xbone was much worse. Also as far as I know no credit card information was actually taken in the PSN hack.

Yup. Completely different server. But you can't prove a negative, so Sony played it safe and made people paranoid. It's why PSN cards sell so well on Amazon.
What's amazing is how paranoid people are about things like that, even though they've never had to deal with a credit card hack. It's a pretty simple process to get the money credited back. A hassle? A bit. But in this case, a lot of people resorted to FAR MORE than an 'ounce of prevenetion' to prevent a pound of cure. It's a cost/benefit analysis and some people never understood that and just lived in fear.

Ultimately, not a single bit of data was removed from the servers. No passwords. No credit cards. Anything. Shit. Infinitely more people have had their data stolen from FIFA games for the bullshit card game than from any PSN hack.

 

[Nzyme32]

See, this is the sort of attitude that I really don't understand. You're locking yourself out of potentially playing some great experiences because of what exactly? Policies that were canned about two weeks after being announced and over 5 months before the console released?

Each to their own, but I actually agree with the other poster. Unlike that poster however, I will always never say never. But..

Do I really need to purchase every platform that has good games? Personally that is completely unrealistic for me simply due to time constraints, the vast amount of games available on platforms that I own and the financial cost that I would rather invest else where in my life. Side stepping that issue, when buying into a console or platform, I am looking at the policies, quality and faith in the services as much as the games and other content available. In terms of Microsoft and their approach to gaming services recently, I am rightly left with no faith in them at all.

Even avoiding all the GFWL stuff and focusing solely on Xbox, how can I trust that content I purchase will not be subjected to new policies that I dislike, or for that matter the services on the console? I can only base this on faith in MS or (any whatever other company if you were to do a different hypothetical), which may seem silly to you, but from my perspective, they have done nothing in my personal interest or that I find useful or friendly to me.

Presently with the Xbox One, everything is in favour of "giving more choice" but really, lets put that in perspective. It hasn't been going on for just a few weeks and can be disregarded. This has been going on for long periods of time, with an overarching vision for the machine and platform, some of which such as kinect, have only just changed. I do not believe for a second that any of their decisions are made for my benefit. It is clear to me that they wanted their vision till it cost them financially via poor sales or publicity or whatever. My point is, there is no reason for me believe I can consistently see features, services and policies, friendly and useful to me. And thus I choose not to invest in that ecosystem. Of course if you add to the almost decade long shitfest with GFWL, it becomes far more clear. Even worse is the continuing statements that they do all these changes for the customer, and to give them choice, just as they did with statements of kinect and drm and online check in being integral. In the case of kinect, that the console and kinect are one and the same and will never be separated. I would hate to be someone relying on such products

Disregarding all of that, if I am not happy with the policies now, why should I bother picking the console up at all? Combining all those factors leads me away from their machine and platform. While a terrible shame that I can't play a minority of great games, it's not like they have such a monopoly on great content. There are plenty of other options to suit anyone's needs should they also not be so easily trusting or interested in that particular system/platform

 

[jelly]

Also, MS did apologize for the RROD, both in their actions (warranty extension that cost them $1 billion +) and their words:

http://www.mtv.com/news/1564184/xbox-360s-red-ring-of-death-prompts-microsoft-to-extend-warranty/

I might add kicking and screaming.

Peter Moore "You know, things break"

 

[crappybannedjunior999999]

Why?

Does he want some Microsoft employee to post an open letter to the internet grovelling for forgiveness?

Just Albert. And only to Neogaf. We are STILL waiting Albert!!!

 

[Neuromancer]

I might add kicking and screaming.

Peter Moore "You know, things break"

True. It took them a while to come around but they finally did.

 

[s3ltzer]

haven't read all the pages of the thread, but i watched the video. despite of MS's shitty attitude towards consumers (gamers really), i still purchased an xbox one at launch. i ended up selling it a couple of months later, it just felt wrong. MS really screwed up this gen, hopefully the next console will be what the xbox one should have been.

 

[myharlequin]

I disagree, the relationship between MS and their clients is just "business" (both directions) not love or friendship where are feelings as betrayal, jealousy or anger

 

[Quadraphonic]

Just Albert. And only to Neogaf. We are STILL waiting Albert!!!

Hell, the first red flag with Albert would be his two-faced identity where he constantly told people he wasn't in PR, but he was.

 

[staticneuron]

Yes... M$ fcked up. They fcked up good - and I see no real reason to own an XBone right now unless your really into Forza but I'm not about to write them off for the next 10 years.

See, this is the sort of attitude that I really don't understand. You're locking yourself out of potentially playing some great experiences because of what exactly? Policies that were canned about two weeks after being announced and over 5 months before the console released?

Not to mention they've been hauling ass to make the console better month by month. Don't get why people care more about what could have been (but never actually happened) than what the reality of the current situation is. Makes no damn sense.

I would imagine it is because people really don't care or don't see themselves loosing out even if they avoided the console. It is probably like the Wii U right now. I am sure there are some people who wouldn't mind playing mario, mario kart or the new zelda, but if they already have the PS4 or Xbox one and maybe even a PC, then they might not be starving to purchase another console just to play those games.

Everyone was mocking it anyway. Getting rid of it did most people a favor.

I think people mocked the Xbox One Reveal where they kept on talking about TV. They got it backwards. They should have toned it down a bit and then spent some time at E3 fleshing it out.

Personally I was curious about what they had in store for Halo and Quantum Break and if they turn out to be really good I will be very sad because I feel sci fi isn't kept alive enough.

. Infinitely more people have had their data stolen from FIFA games for the bullshit card game than from any PSN hack.

Aren't purchases from FIFA games going through EA servers?

Each to their own, but I actually agree with the other poster. Unlike that poster however, I will always never say never. But..

Do I really need to purchase every platform that has good games? Personally that is completely unrealistic for me simply due to time constraints, the vast amount of games available on platforms that I own and the financial cost that I would rather invest else where in my life. Side stepping that issue, when buying into a console or platform, I am looking at the policies, quality and faith in the services as much as the games and other content available. In terms of Microsoft and their approach to gaming services recently, I am rightly left with no faith in them at all.

Even avoiding all the GFWL stuff and focusing solely on Xbox, how can I trust that content I purchase will not be subjected to new policies that I dislike, or for that matter the services on the console? I can only base this on faith in MS or (any whatever other company if you were to do a different hypothetical), which may seem silly to you, but from my perspective, they have done nothing in my personal interest or that I find useful or friendly to me.

Presently with the Xbox One, everything is in favour of "giving more choice" but really, lets put that in perspective. It hasn't been going on for just a few weeks and can be disregarded. This has been going on for long periods of time, with an overarching vision for the machine and platform, some of which such as kinect, have only just changed. I do not believe for a second that any of their decisions are made for my benefit. It is clear to me that they wanted their vision till it cost them financially via poor sales or publicity or whatever. My point is, there is no reason for me believe I can consistently see features, services and policies, friendly and useful to me. And thus I choose not to invest in that ecosystem. Of course if you add to the almost decade long shitfest with GFWL, it becomes far more clear.

Disregarding all of that, if I am not happy with the policies now, why should I bother picking the console up at all? Combining all those factors leads me away from their machine and platform. While a terrible shame that I can't play a minority of great games, it's not like they have such a monopoly on great content. There are plenty of other options to suit anyone's needs should they also not be so easily trusting or interested in that particular system/platform

I am not sure if the other side of the coin can be explained more clearly than that. Very well put.

 

[Nzyme32]

True. It took them a while to come around but they finally did.

If I recall correctly, since I was avidly paying attention and suffering from the issue out of warranty, the intial response they gave was that the issue only existed for the tiniest minority of users - quoting some percentage of users

 

[crappybannedjunior999999]

What about Sony... and Oreshika 2 being only digital.

What? You dug deep for that one. How about an online petition? You could probably get 30 or 40 signatures. How can you even equate that with anti consumerism?

 

[jelly]

True. It took them a while to come around but they finally did.

I think it might have cost them more if they didn't. It was the sort of problem that would force a recall or if customers sued they would get a full refund resulting in more than the $1 billion they put aside for RROD.

 

[Raist]

Hell, the first red flag with Albert would be his two-faced identity where he constantly told people he wasn't in PR, but he was.

I remember how offended he was when he got a PR tag at first, because "hey, I'm part of the engineering team ok?" Of course then he answered most questions with "I'll ask the tech people". Good times.

 

[Bigbillybeef]

Yeah but the security breach was an act committed by a third party maliciously towards Sony, whereas the Microsoft was an act committed by Microsoft towards their consumers.

It doesn't excuse the fact that Sony had an obligation to protect it's customers information, and it failed to do so. I do agree that it could have happened to anyone, but I would have expected it to be a given that an apology would be made.

You're right, the Xbone was much worse. Also as far as I know no credit card information was actually taken in the PSN hack.

I don't see how an unpopular launch strategy is worse than potentially losing the confidence of paying customers to protect their personal and financial information.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

Here's my position as an Xbox One owner since April:

• I do not support Microsoft's original vision.
• I do not expect an apology, however nice it would be to see them acknowledge that it was them at fault, not us.
• I do not believe they should apologize for their original plans. They recognized the problem (though took too long to do it) and changed it.
• I do not feel any gratitude for their 180. It was great that they changed gears from their original vision and their Gold paywalls, but I am 100% aware that it wasn't for my benefit as a consumer.
• I do not believe things such as price drops and these reversals require an apology. Value is value. If a system wasn't worth that $500 or whatever price it was when you bought it, you shouldn't have bought it. The company is doing what it needs to do to be competitive out of desperation. Signs had been there from the beginning that it was the wrong horse to bet on out the gate.
• I am concerned that certain practices may be reintroduced down the line, whether it be this system or next. However, that's where my support comes to an end if so.
• I do find the games to be a bit stronger currently, which is important for a game system. That could change next year, but this year the exclusives are better. Multi-plats of course are preferred on PS4.
• The OS support has been incredible. It's partially due to the fact that Microsoft is a software company, but they easily could have put far less effort into it. It's probably the single thing Microsoft has done with this system that benefits the consumer above themselves.
• I had no delusions on where Kinect would end up. Its support was going to be on par with last gen at best, despite it having been included with each system. The tech just hasn't improved enough and is too limited. It sucks that folks like Harmonix are/will be suffering due to the decision, but the consumers spoke and nothing that has been shown or done indicates how the consumer was wrong.

I suppose the message in the video is sound, but I think anyone that owns the system or is considering it outside of brand loyalists is looking at the company with caution to see what their next move will be and how it affects us.

I get your point about BP but that 53% failure rate is responsible for stealing millions from people. How many low knowledge consumers never got a replacement? I guarantee it was a LOT. Chik never stole money and was basically forced into giving it back. While their bigotry is reprehensible and disgusting it certainly isn't as bad according the laws of our society as theft is.

That's a separate issue than what the post I was replying to was speaking of. The original post in the chain was speaking solely of the initial ecosystem structure of the Xbox One platform. The Xbox 360 RRoD and other hardware issues such as the disc laser burnouts were not a part of the discussion. Doesn't mean that I don't agree. It was just a subject that wasn't a part of the discussion chain.

 

[graywolf323]

Hell, the first red flag with Albert would be his two-faced identity where he constantly told people he wasn't in PR, but he was.

so many people believed him too

 

[Raist]

It doesn't excuse the fact that Sony had an obligation to protect it's customers information, and it failed to do so. I do agree that it could have happened to anyone, but I would have expected it to be a given that an apology would be made.

Well it does happen to anyone. It's not unheard of that servers from major companies get hacked. The usual response is "This and that happened. Nothing was stolen. Please change your passwords and don't use the same one over and over again on different sites. Kthxbye.".

edit: although I guess, to be fair, in Sony's case that led to a shut down of the service for a while, which is what they apologized for mostly.

 

[crappybannedjunior999999]

Also, MS did apologize for the RROD, both in their actions (warranty extension that cost them $1 billion +) and their words:

“The majority of Xbox 360 owners are having a great experience with their console and have from day one. But, this problem has caused frustration for some of our customers and for that, we sincerely apologize,” Microsoft’s President of Entertainment and Devices, Robbie Bach, said in a statement.

That quote is exactly why I dislike the company. With a 53% failure rate the quote should read like this;

“The majority of Xbox 360 owners are experiencing console failures and have from day one. This problem has caused frustration for most of our customers and for that, we sincerely apologize,” Microsoft’s President of Entertainment and Devices, Robbie Bach, said in a statement.

That, my friend is an apology I can accept and get behind.

http://www.mtv.com/news/1564184/xbox-360s-red-ring-of-death-prompts-microsoft-to-extend-warranty/

.

 

[system11]

What about Sony and the Drive Club Microtransacations or freedom wars online pass and not coming out until Europe or not being able to play games offline on PS4/Vita or Oreshika 2 being only digital.
Just saying. Sorry but Sony "not believing in anti-consumer" is pretty funny. There's more too but I can't be bothered to search.

I still remember this:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/24/lik-sang_shuts_doors/

 

[Moon_frogger]

I personally thought the Xbox 360 was a bunch of bullshit so you can imagine how I'm feeling about the 'one'. Still can't get over what a horrible name they chose. There's already an Xbox 1 for Pete's sake.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I had no delusions on where Kinect would end up. Its support was going to be on par with last gen at best, despite it having been included with each system. The tech just hasn't improved enough and is too limited.

What exactly are you wanting it to do? cartwheels? I think a bigger problem includes developers trying to make the wrong type of games on it. An exploration game like The Curse of Monkey Island or Myst would be an excellent way to use kinect in my own opinion. Taking a mobile game like Can You Escape would work similarly well. I can even see some type of real-time strategy game being really fun given the right control scheme with kinect. Make it include matchmaking over live. I don't know. I just think developers are having extremely limited vision when it comes to making games for it outside of Dance Central and Kinect Sports.

 

[watership]

It's amazing how people talk about what the MS "did to them". This isn't a forced attack, it was some policies on a console you would have to buy, that were reversed 6 months before it was even on the market. It's not even like NEW COKE, where Coke pushed it on the public for a year before taking it back. The Xbox One still has kinect functionality, it still has TV/cable support, and frankly it works amazingly well. The Entertainment division barely started before it was shuttered... all these things were rapid changes, before the even got a change to debut, or even fail. So the things you didn't like about the Xbox One were changed, before you even had to chance to NOT buy it.

You know when PS3 launched, they didn't have much of a plan for PSN. They were so far behind Xbox 360, even a year after launch. Does everyone remember how bad PSN was, or do they talk about how much better it got over time? We keep on talking about how bad the original plan for Xbox One was going to be. No one had to deal with it. Because it never happened. MS changed their plans.Did they do it for their own good? of course. Were they forced to do it? Sure, they wanted you to buy their console. Like every single platform holder out there. Why are we demonizing them for saying, "Shit, we were wrong, here is some changes?" Yet there is this attitude that we need to remember how evil MS wanted to be, to change the way we played games. When in reality, if they only fixed a few dozen things, and addressed their messaging right, we would all be okay. Yet, we're all tangled in the meme of 'Anti-consumer' and "look what they wanted to do" rather than what they are actually doing.

 

[s3ltzer]

I still remember this:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2006/10/24/lik-sang_shuts_doors/

that was a decade ago, no? i don't think any company is free of fault, none. the issue is that Microsoft's blunders happened last year, and still echo to today with the xbox one. the removal of most of the xbl paywall is a good sign though.

 

[SmokedMeat]

What about Sony and the Drive Club Microtransacations or freedom wars online pass and not coming out until Europe or not being able to play games offline on PS4/Vita or Oreshika 2 being only digital.
Just saying. Sorry but Sony "not believing in anti-consumer" is pretty funny. There's more too but I can't be bothered to search.

All that said the PS4 and Xbox One still suck balls and I don't see why anyone should be praising either company.

Edit: .....and Killer Instinct.

I don't follow Drive Club or Freedom Wars much, so I can't comment on a supposed online pass (Sony got rid of those last I knew), or microtransactions for a game that's not even out.

As for them releasing a game in digital format only I don't see how that's anti-consumer? I guess Shovel Knight is also anti-consumer, as well as tons of indies.

 

[Uno Venova]

Why are we demonizing them for saying, "Shit, we were wrong, here is some changes?"

I don't think they did say that.

 

[Version 3.0]

I don't care about the TV or Kinect reversals. Those are just the market working as it should. Those are not / were not desirable products or ideas for enough customers, so they were discarded. There's nothing wrong with reacting to the market as a business.

The DRM stuff, though, was at least arguably illegal, violating First Sale Doctrine and trying to hide behind grey areas in productivity software precedents and the largely as-yet-unregulated digital purchase realm. And it was definitely immoral, personally offensive, and also offensive to the gaming community at large, because they thought we'd be stupid enough to buy into it.

I still wish they'd launched with that DRM scheme in place, because I want this grey area in the law illuminated. I want to know my rights, and something like that would have forced the issue. There's no way they wouldn't have ended up in court.

 

[Manderley Raps]

the first red flag with Albert would be his two-faced identity where he constantly told people he wasn't in PR, but he was.

so many people believed him too

He doesn't work in PR, that's totally wrong. I've talked to his team here at Xbox for a couple of years, and they don't work in a PR or marketing function. Don't mean to present this as awesome insider info (because I work on the Xbox team) or start arguing with people, but it doesn't feel great to see someone presenting this kind of thing as a fact when it's untrue, and let it go unchallenged.

 

[watership]

I don't think they did say that.

You won't see a full "We were wrong, and we're sorry." verbatim, in any company outside of major screw ups, and even then, they open themselves for lawsuits for using that terminology.

But Mattrick himself said that they were changing things due to customer feedback right after E3.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

That's a reversal, due to the reaction. Do many here wants to see an apology from MS?

 

[Jebarlow]

It blows my mind to see that people think Microsoft has better exclusives. I don't own a One yet, but all it will take is a couple of decent exclusives that I'm interested in. There just aren't any, and that's been the case since long before the One launched. Microsoft stopped caring about 1st party software about the time the original Kinect launched. Probably because they didn't believe they needed it due to their dominance over Sony at the time. They were winning the battle because Sony kept shooting themselves in the foot. Now that's not happening. They need to figure out that Halo, Gears, Fable and Forza aren't going to cut it for the next 5-10 years.

Honestly, when I first saw it, I thought that Sunset Overdrive was going to be "that" game the got me to buy the system. The more I see of it, the less interested I am. Maybe Quantum Break could end up being that game? Yet to be seen.

Having Bioware as an exclusive at the beginning of last generation was huge. Having actual working Bethesda games on their system was huge. Having the far superior network and controller was huge. Those advantages are now gone. It's time for Microsoft to wake up and develop or acquire some talent to make games for them. They need a "Microsoft Worldwide Studios" that compares with Sony to be able to compete, and they have a LONG way to go to get there. I don't need apologies, I need games I actually care about.

 

[Uno Venova]

You won't see a full "We were wrong, and we're sorry." verbatim, in any company outside of major screw ups, and even then, they open themselves for lawsuits for using that terminology.

But Mattrick himself said that they were changing things due to customer feedback right after E3.

http://news.xbox.com/2013/06/update

That's a reversal, due to the reaction. Do many here wants to see an apology from MS?

An apology, an indication that the old policies weren't right for consumers instead of consumers not being ready for it and changing due to only sales are some of the things Jim and people in this thread are touching on yes.

 

[Swass]

See, this is the sort of attitude that I really don't understand. You're locking yourself out of potentially playing some great experiences because of what exactly? Policies that were canned about two weeks after being announced and over 5 months before the console released?

There are so many other options for gaming out there that I highly doubt the dozen or so unique experiences the Xbox One may offer will truely be missed for those that decide to skip it.

 

[ArkkAngel007]

What exactly are you wanting it to do? cartwheels? I think a bigger problem includes developers trying to make the wrong type of games on it. An exploration game like The Curse of Monkey Island or Myst would be an excellent way to use kinect in my own opinion. Taking a mobile game like Can You Escape would work similarly well. I can even see some type of real-time strategy game being really fun given the right control scheme with kinect. Make it include matchmaking over live. I don't know. I just think developers are having extremely limited vision when it comes to making games for it outside of Dance Central and Kinect Sports.

It's still too inconsistent. Even the simple controls in Dead Rising 3 weren't that good, and it seems motion control is still somewhat of a bust outside of the specialized titles like Dance and Sports.

If the Kinect can barely handle OS navigation or controller movement in DR3, then how can I have faith in anything beyond that scope having a real chance of being executed correctly. I had hopes that maybe it could be paired with VR down the line, but the camera isn't up to snuff on that either to where I'm wondering if part of the separation from the Xbox One is to encourage a better Kinect down the line for VR.

The concept has potential, but the tech still needs work to be fully viable.

It's a nice voice control peripheral though. Saying 'Xbox Record That' or navigating the OS and apps smoothly without having to waste my controllers battery charge is pretty awesome.

 

[Windom Earle]

Jim on point. Take notes IGN! So much truth in there.

 

[Neuromancer]

He doesn't work in PR, that's totally wrong. I've talked to his team here at Xbox for a couple of years, and they don't work in a PR or marketing function. Don't mean to present this as awesome insider info or start arguing with people, but it doesn't feel great to see someone presenting this kind of thing as a fact when it's untrue, and let it go unchallenged.

You work at MS in the Xbox team? That's interesting. Well can you at least agree that Albert was here on GAF leading up to the Xbox One launch in a PR capacity?

 

[soul creator]

Not being able to play a game (disc or otherwise) that I paid for and own after 24 hours offline is anticonsumer in my book. So is not being able to sell, trade or give away (without restrictions) a physical game disc that I own.

I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree with the use of that specific phrasing.

I can't sell, trade, or give away my Skyrim physical game disc on...The Platform That Shall Not Be Named, but I don't see it as "anti-consumer". I see it as a drawback, and I can decide if that drawback is worth whatever benefits that are offered (namely, being able to play Skyrim without a disc needing to be inserted).

So from my perspective, being able to trade that Skyrim physical disc (even in a restricted fashion), while not needing it to play the game every time, and also being able to buy digital games from every retailer would be a positive. Of course, the drawback associated with that is having an internet check. So then I would have to decide if that drawback is still worth it.

If it's worth it, then it's a "good" product for me. If it's not worth it, then it's a "bad" product for me. In this specific case, for people who are used to reselling game discs with no restrictions (traditional console users), this can be considered a bad product. For people who are used to never being able to resell or trade digital games (people on The Platform That Shall Not Be Named or people who prefer not needing plastic discs inserted all the time to play games) they could easily argue it's a step up for them (even with the 24 hr drawback)

So those policies affect different sets of consumers with different sets of priorities in different ways. But I don't see what makes it an "anti-consumer" product, as long as this is all known up front before a consumer spends their money. And as long as consumers have other options in the industry (like PS4/360/Wii U/PS3/Steam/iOS/etc.) I think it's perfectly valid to consider it the shittiest product ever made, but I just don't see why "I think this is shitty!" equates to "This is anti-consumer!".

Also, MS did apologize for the RROD, both in their actions (warranty extension that cost them $1 billion +) and their words:

http://www.mtv.com/news/1564184/xbox-360s-red-ring-of-death-prompts-microsoft-to-extend-warranty/

One major difference is that a broken system is a direct harm to people who have bought the system, and they've directly lost money and time to not having a working product they paid for. "This product I paid money for is broken, you should fix it" seems rather straightforward.

"We don't think gamers should need to insert discs to play games...oh, you disagree pretty strongly? Well shit, we'll change it then before we actually put a product out" doesn't seem to register as strongly on my "apologize to me" meter I guess, *shrug*.

Unless you think "not needing discs to play games, and pushing for a platform where you can transfer game licenses regardless of where you bought it from" is an inherently offensive notion, I don't see what needs to be apologized for. Edit: I guess the apology seems to be needed for being overly confident in those ideas early on? That certainly seems to be a major factor. It seems to be ok for people to like playing games without discs, as long as they do it off in their own separate corner with huge downloads, and being locked to one marketplace, and giving proper deference and respect to traditional console disc approaches.. But it's not ok to think "playing games without needing a disc inserted is actually the superior approach, so our system will be 100% designed around that, with a disc just used as a quicker install".

Again, I'm not disputing that someone may disagree with a specific method of accomplishing that goal (the 24hr check-in), and thinking it's a highly flawed product. That's perfectly valid. I just don't see why that goal in and of itself is "anti-consumer".

 

[SmokedMeat]

An apology, an indication that the old policies weren't right for consumers instead of consumers not being ready for it and changing due to only sales are some of the things Jim and people in this thread are touching on yes.

Yep, pretty sure the line I heard was we just weren't ready for it.

 

[a.wd]

Yes, I am. I don't support bullshit anti-consumer policies. And they only changed it after the immense backlash... If they were the only game in town, we'd be sitting in an always online world with no used games market, to fuck over the consumers and make some more money for their buddies.

Fuck Microsoft. Hard. And honestly, there are games I would probably really enjoy playing on the One, but I'll never buy the thing. They've lost me (and from what I can gather, many others) forever. Corporations need to know that they can't get away with bullshit like this, and the only way for us to communicate with them is through our wallets. I will not buy another MS console.

Awesome, I take it you are also boycotting Sony over the otherOS tsunami of anti consumer action? Microsoft before anyone had purchased a console changed their policies, Sony TOOK functionality that I was actually using from my console via an update buried in a game.

I abhor anti consumer practices so I was furious with Microsofts initial plan. However they fixed it to the benefit of the consumer, fuck apologies actions speak louder than words.

BTW I currently own a PS4, but no Xb1, I was apoplectic with anger over otherOS but I am not emotionally committed to any company, I go where the games (and user experience) is. So whilst I see Sony as the worst type of anti consumer organisation, games are being made for their console and I want to play them. Will I support their practices when they fuck up? No. Will I scream from the rooftops if they fuck up? Yes. Do I need to align myself with a corporation? Fuck no. To say that you will never buy a games console because of issues that have been rectified is asinine.

 

[Deputy Moonman]

It's still too inconsistent. Even the simple controls in Dead Rising 3 weren't that good, and it seems motion control is still somewhat of a bust outside of the specialized titles like Dance and Sports.

If the Kinect can barely handle OS navigation or controller movement in DR3, then how can I have faith in anything beyond that scope having a real chance of being executed correctly. I had hopes that maybe it could be paired with VR down the line, but the camera isn't up to snuff on that either to where I'm wondering if part of the separation from the Xbox One is to encourage a better Kinect down the line for VR.

The concept has potential, but the tech still needs work to be fully viable.

It's a nice voice control peripheral though. Saying 'Xbox Record That' or navigating the OS and apps smoothly without having to waste my controllers battery charge is pretty awesome.

Ah very good points. I wonder what the development process was like for DR3. Like most games it seems they're made and then kinect is forced in as an after thought. I would love to see a legit kinect game made from the ground up that involves some type of exploration. Shoot, do a Dragon's Lair style tribute game that involves a fantastic story and loads of surprises and scares.

 

[TRI Mike]

Jim isn't wrong. The console has been sold through a bunch of stupid lies and false statements, still, I believe that, at least right now, it has a much better lineup than the PS4 and will continue to be like that until at least mid 2015.

 

[crappybannedjunior999999]

He doesn't work in PR, that's totally wrong. I've talked to his team here at Xbox for a couple of years, and they don't work in a PR or marketing function. Don't mean to present this as awesome insider info or start arguing with people, but it doesn't feel great to see someone presenting this kind of thing as a fact when it's untrue, and let it go unchallenged.

You are totally wrong. You can call something whatever you like or give someone any job title you wish. That does not make it so.

Penello came here and lied at worst and deliberately obfuscated things at best. That is PR. Disingenuous, dishonest and morally bankrupt PR but it's PR.

Albert came here as a PR shill. PR is what he did here. Read his posts, it's honestly ridiculous and asinine to suggest he didn't function in that capacity if you look back on the things he said in hindsight. I have no doubt that Public Relations is not his "job title", if companies gave legit job titles Penello's would have been "Chief of Obfuscation, Dishonesty and Questionable Ethics".

Everybody that is employed at ANY company is expected to practice PR. Employees are trained and expected to present the company in a favorable way to customers and the general public. That is basic PR. If you have a job you do it daily.

 

[the_champ]

If that's his opinion, that's ok. I just respectfully disagree.
In my case its a lying failure machine that I enjoy every single day of my life.

 

[Tex117]

Here's my position as an Xbox One owner since April:

• I do not support Microsoft's original vision.
• I do not expect an apology, however nice it would be to see them acknowledge that it was them at fault, not us.
• I do not believe they should apologize for their original plans. They recognized the problem (though took too long to do it) and changed it.
• I do not feel any gratitude for their 180. It was great that they changed gears from their original vision and their Gold paywalls, but I am 100% aware that it wasn't for my benefit as a consumer.
• I do not believe things such as price drops and these reversals require an apology. Value is value. If a system wasn't worth that $500 or whatever price it was when you bought it, you shouldn't have bought it. The company is doing what it needs to do to be competitive out of desperation. Signs had been there from the beginning that it was the wrong horse to bet on out the gate.
• I am concerned that certain practices may be reintroduced down the line, whether it be this system or next. However, that's where my support comes to an end if so.
• I do find the games to be a bit stronger currently, which is important for a game system. That could change next year, but this year the exclusives are better. Multi-plats of course are preferred on PS4.
• The OS support has been incredible. It's partially due to the fact that Microsoft is a software company, but they easily could have put far less effort into it. It's probably the single thing Microsoft has done with this system that benefits the consumer above themselves.
• I had no delusions on where Kinect would end up. Its support was going to be on par with last gen at best, despite it having been included with each system. The tech just hasn't improved enough and is too limited. It sucks that folks like Harmonix are/will be suffering due to the decision, but the consumers spoke and nothing that has been shown or done indicates how the consumer was wrong.

.

Pretty much this right here. (Can't speak to the OS support...or "better exclusives" at the moment...as that's preference...really both consoles had relatively weak exclusives a year out of the gate...this fall will be awesome though for multiplats and the like).

MS is having to do something it has yet to do since its entry into the gaming world....Compete head to head with a humbled Sony. Head to head as in release dates and vision.

Xbox released after the ps2 and caught lightening in a bottle with Halo...Not just Halo, but MS saw the future of online play way before Sony did. That carried over into the 360/ps3 generation. That coupled with ps3 a year after release, and MS gained a solid advantage.

Sony, having recovered from the ps3 hangover after the drunken awesome of ps2, created a console that was simple and powerful....GAMERS PLAY GAMES. GAMERS BY CONSOLES...that simple. MS took a wider approach as they were trying to not only fight off Sony on the gaming front, but also Apple for control of the living room. They lost focus of the simple mantra...GAMERS BY CONSOLES. The rest of the functionality is great, but few people if any will buy a console for other functionality and not primarily to play games.

MS is and will get it together as Sony did last generation, but it will take some work.

 

[Uno Venova]

Awesome, I take it you are also boycotting Sony over the otherOS tsunami of anti consumer action? Microsoft before anyone had purchased a console changed their policies, Sony TOOK functionality that I was actually using from my console via an update buried in a game.

I abhor anti consumer practices so I was furious with Microsofts initial plan. However they fixed it to the benefit of the consumer, fuck apologies actions speak louder than words.

BTW I currently own a PS4, but no Xb1, I was apoplectic with anger over otherOS but I am not emotionally committed to any company, I go where the games (and user experience) is. So whilst I see Sony as the worst type of anti consumer organisation, games are being made for their console and I want to play them. Will I support their practices when they fuck up? No. Will I scream from the rooftops if they fuck up? Yes. Do I need to align myself with a corporation? Fuck no. To say that you will never buy a games console because of issues that have been rectified is asinine.

If he's not supporting Microsoft because of the policies they tried to implement and the reactions they had in PR to the backlash, but not Sony because of the OtherOS feature removal, what changes with his personal stance?

 

[the_champ]

You are totally wrong. You can call something whatever you like or give someone any job title you wish. That does not make it so.

Penello came here and lied at worst and deliberately obfuscated things at best. That is PR. Disingenuous, dishonest and morally bankrupt PR but it's PR.

Albert came here as a PR shill. PR is what he did here. Read his posts, it's honestly ridiculous and asinine to suggest he didn't function in that capacity if you look back on the things he said in hindsight. I have no doubt that Public Relations is not his "job title", if companies gave legit job titles Penello's would have been "Chief of Obfuscation, Dishonesty and Questionable Ethics".

Everybody that is employed at ANY company is expected to practice PR. Employees are trained and expected to present the company in a favorable way to customers and the general public. That is basic PR. If you have a job you do it daily.

You are disqualifying Albert at a personal level. That's something ugly that also usually ends bad (remember Driveclub's *fired* manager?).
Think twice before saying someone has "questionable ethics".

 

[Manderley Raps]

You can call something whatever you like or give someone any job title you wish. That does not make it so.

That is true, but I was replying to the gentleman who stated Albert "constantly told people he wasn't in PR, but he was." He's not. That's just a statement of fact.

What you wrote is "everybody that is employed at ANY company is expected to practice PR." That's fine, but all that means is 'everybody who represents themselves as a company employee is permanently in the PR business.' I'm sure there's a lot of truth in that. We're just talking about different things.

 

[a.wd]

Yeah but the security breach was an act committed by a third party maliciously towards Sony, whereas the Microsoft was an act committed by Microsoft towards their consumers.

Regardless, they're not really comparable.

Actually the security issue was something that Sony is entirely at fault for, and they were the ones who were malicious. They could have avoided the situation by paying Red Hat for their updates, Red Hat warned them that key security systems were not updated but they wanted to save money by not paying for the enterprise subscriptions.

The issue was entirely Sonys fault as they were warned repeatedly, were given a solution, but to save (what had to be reasonably small) costs they threw the customer under the bus. That's anti consumer.

 

[Moon_frogger]

Wow people sure are accepting of some bullshit. They didn't change those idiotic policies because they are a bunch of nice people. They did it because of the backlash which affected their bottom dollar, nothing more. This isn't like psn which was a service that grew over time. It's like a cancer that they removed. They were so oblivious to how awful it was that they actually tried to go through with it. It's hilarious.

 

[a.wd]

If he's not supporting Microsoft because of the policies they tried to implement and the reactions they had in PR to the backlash, but not Sony because of the OtherOS feature removal, what changes with his personal stance?

Nothing, that's the point. If you are stating that you wouldn't ever support a company for anti consumer practices, then that should be consistent for all companies.

 

[crappybannedjunior999999]

You are disqualifying Albert at a personal level. That's something ugly that also usually ends bad (remember Driveclub's *fired* manager?).
Think twice before saying someone has "questionable ethics".

Point taken. I do believe the comment was warranted for him in his professional capacity. I have no idea about who the man might be as "a regular guy" and state for the record that I can not question his ethics in that regard or on a personal level, only a business one.