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[Whitechocolatekrispies]

I think it's important to admit that there is kernel of truth here: yes, I'm sure the Israeli government finds Al-Jazeera's existence to be inconvenient, and yes, I'm sure they'd rather they're gone, even amongst those who won't admit so publicly as the minister in that article did.

But "two bullets hit a building and a minister wants Al-Jazeera gone" is an order of magnitude less severe than "Al-Jazeera's HQ has been shelled and the entire government has banned them."

I suspect there are order-of-magnitude exaggerations of that type coming from all angles in this conflict, and it makes it maddeningly difficult for an outsider looking in to make an objective observation.

There is a consistent bias and exaggeration of events wholly from one side of the argument here.

I would be very interested to be proven wrong here, to see out right lies from the Israeli government, not opinion. I would like to see the out right twisting of media, events, actions and fabrications from the Israelis.

I am sure some might dig up the dregs of some biased, of some miss-information, mistakes not owned up to. Go ahead I would like to see this. Because I'd like to know that the biased, lying and fabrications are natural, that both sides are involved.

I'd like to see some fallibility behind all the counter arguments. Because right now all I see are cold hard facts against a tsunami of bullshit.

 

[GYODX]

Israel has banned Al Jazeera from Israel and shelled their offices as a warning

Isreali FM has said Al Jazeera is a terror group supporting Hamas

This is a blatant lie.

 

[Partial Gamification]

There is a consistent bias and exaggeration of events wholly from one side of the argument here.

I would be very interested to be proven wrong here, to see out right lies from the Israeli government, not opinion. I would like to see the out right twisting of media, events, actions and fabrications from the Israelis.

I am sure some might dig up the dregs of some biased, of some miss-information, mistakes not owned up to. Go ahead I would like to see this. Because I'd like to know that the biased, lying and fabrications are natural, that both sides are involved.

I'd like to see some fallibility behind all the counter arguments. Because right now all I see are cold hard facts against a tsunami of bullshit.

I think the onus is on you to prove your claim.

 

[Maninthemirror]

No a minister said he was pissed off at Al Jazeera ...

It is not banned. You specifically stated it was banned, you lied.



You also stated they shelled their building another lie. Two stray bullets from unconfirmed location hit their building. A shell is a large high explosive round that would knock their building down.

That sounds more than just being pissed off

[/quote]

Lieberman said that he is looking into the possibility of banning AL Jazeera from broadcasting in Israel. "All the big networks operate in Israel, some of them are not exactly pro-Zionist, and yet as a democratic state we allow them operate here. In the case of AL Jazeera it is not an issue of freedom of the media but of a terrorist wing that currently fights against Israel," he pointed out.

Who shoots straight into a building precisely through the windows at a straight angle as was suggested . A rocket would be a mistake as the excuse would be there were Hamas rockets and ammunitions nearby but what were the bullets targeting. Surely this was not ANOTHER mistake ?

This is a blatant lie.

So were the firings just another mistake ?

 

[Chariot]

Please, let's not try to bait others or pigeonhole them. It creates more noise.

I am sorry, that was really polemic of me.
But I really angry about the lack of adressing of the issue, since - as of now - it looks like an indicator that Israel is not actually just defending itself but waging a war against a ethnic group to drive it out of the land.

 

[Opto]

I'm heavily concerned when a member of a cabinet is saying a news organization is a terrorist organization. Like, go ahead and criticize it, but lumping them with Hamas is very offensive.

 

[theignoramus]

There is a consistent bias and exaggeration of events wholly from one side of the argument here.

I would be very interested to be proven wrong here, to see out right lies from the Israeli government, not opinion. I would like to see the out right twisting of media, events, actions and fabrications from the Israelis.

I am sure some might dig up the dregs of some biased, of some miss-information, mistakes not owned up to. Go ahead I would like to see this. Because I'd like to know that the biased, lying and fabrications are natural, that both sides are involved.

I'd like to see some fallibility behind all the counter arguments. Because right now all I see are cold hard facts against a tsunami of bullshit.

Had you bothered to read the thread, you would have seen the reports from Human Rights Watch which stated, in no uncertain terms, that they found no evidence of military activity in many of the civilian locations Israel attacked, so you'll excuse us for believing a reputable third party over the IDF and its "tsunami of bullshit". (to use your term.)
edit:
Im still having some trouble digesting the utter fucking insanity of this claim and how deeply ignorant it is, not only of current facts but of historical ones.

 

[Joni]

The Al-Jazeera story on the shooting.
http://www.aljazeera.com/news/middl...-al-jazeera-bureau-gaza-2014722829152765.html

 

[RustyNails]

Isnt BBC also state funded?

So, if AJ = Qatar and BBC = UK, then shouldnt both be equally blacklisted. Or is it because we only single out AJ because Qataris are brown people.

 

[dripdripsplash]

List of national border changes since World War I

That list is pretty long. Even after WW2.

What a stupid response. You're smart enough to know why yourself.

Because the displacement of about 700,000-1,000,000 Jews from Arab lands happened after your arbitrary line of 1948, do you support reparations paid by the Arab countries towards the families of those displaced?

Of course.

Al Jazeera shouldn't be banned, but it's certainly a propaganda tool. Al Jazeera = Qatar = one of four countries that was against Egypt's proposed ceasefire.

And I disagree. As I've posted in another thread you might have a point with Al Jazeera Arabic being a mouthpiece for Qatar, though Al Jazeera English is one of the worlds most revered and well-respected news organizations for it's objective and well-researched work.

 

[Toxi]

A part of it yes. Theodor Hertzl, father of Zionism says otherwise though.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andinia_Plan

That part is unsourced. Anything you hear about Andinia is tainted with nationalism and anti-semitism. Making statements about hypothetical Argentine oppression based on unsourced Wikipedia factoid is putting you in bad company, and I don't think you would agree with them.

 

[GYODX]

So were the firings just another mistake ?

I don't know, but that's not what I was responding to. You said Israel shelled their offices, and that is clearly wrong.

 

[Maninthemirror]

I don't know, but that's not what I was responding to. You said Israel shelled their offices, and that is clearly wrong.

Oh my sorry for the wording but clearly bullets fired straight into windows are clearly less dangerous

FYI in ammunition world a bullet is also called a shell so..
I would have been completely wrong if I said bombed or mortared

 

[Cromat]

Isnt BBC also state funded?

So, if AJ = Qatar and BBC = UK, then shouldnt both be equally blacklisted. Or is it because we only single out AJ because Qataris are brown people.

I seriously can't believe I'm reading this sentence. In what world are the UK and Qatar even remotely comparable? Wow.

 

[dripdripsplash]

That part is unsourced. Anything you hear about Andinia is tainted with nationalism and anti-semitism. Making statements about hypothetical Argentine oppression based on unsourced Wikipedia factoid is putting you in bad company.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theodor_Herzl

Beginning in late 1895, Herzl wrote Der Judenstaat (The Jewish State). It was published February 1896 to immediate acclaim and controversy. In the book he outlined reasons for the Jewish people to leave Europe, should they desire, either for Argentina or for their historic homeland, Israel, which he seemed to prefer. Herzl believed that the Jews possessed a nationality and all they were missing was a nation with a political structure of their own.[12] He also believed that the only way to avoid anti-Semitism was for Jewish people to have their own state and be able to practice their culture and religion freely.[13] The book and Herzl's ideas spread rapidly throughout the Jewish world and attracted international attention. Supporters of existing Zionist movements such as the Hovevei Zion were immediately drawn to, and allied with, Herzl. Conversely, Herzl and his ideas were vilified by establishment Jewry, whose followers perceived his ideas both as threatening their efforts toward acceptance and integration in their resident countries and as rebellion against the will of God.

I've had classes from one of Denmarks most well-respected scholar on Middle-East history. I can promise you that he wouldn't teach his students about nazi conspiracies.

 

[GYODX]

Oh my sorry for the wording but clearly bullets fired straight into windows are clearly less dangerous

This is not pedantry. There is a world of difference between shelling and shooting two bullets at an office.

And yes, it is clearly less dangerous than this.

 

[Maninthemirror]

This is not pedantry. There is a world of difference between shelling and shooting two bullets at an office.

And yes, it is clearly less dangerous than this.

Oh ok. So it was nothing too dangerous

 

[Fenderputty]

Why do people keep talking about the original statehood? It happened and nothing will change that.

I also see the back and forth game of oneupsmanship between the two sides as a giant waste of breath. At this point in time everyone has LOTS of blood on their hands.

Everyone needs to agree to a some borders and the actually stick to them ( looking at you Israel) and stop killing each other.

If Israel stopped expansion and Hamas still wanted to lob exosives their direction, then Israel would be somewhat justified in their extreme responses to Hamas.

 

[Skyzard]

Oh ok. So it was nothing too dangerous

Yeah, if the bullets don't kill anyone, it doesn't count.

 

[GuessWho]

Are the people who are against Israel, pro hamas? I'm curious to see if some of you support terrorism or terrorist groups.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Yeah, if the bullets don't kill anyone, it doesn't count.

Clearly

Are the people who are against Israel, pro hamas? I'm curious to see if some of you support terrorism or terrorist groups.

Oh boy

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

I think the onus is on you to prove your claim.

Well I already just showed up one lie.

You then have Hamas claiming they kidnapped an Israeli soldier.

You then have dead syrian children showing up apparently in Gaza where they were apparently reanimated, but shortly there after killed by indiscriminate Israeli fire.

You then have the non-uniformed Hamas soldiers getting counted as civilian deaths near consistently. Actively encouraged by Hamas, proof.

Meanwhile, Hamas officials have offered guidelines on social media use by civilians in Gaza in a video posted online.

In it, civilians are told not to publish images of rockets or missiles in central Gaza and to always mention "innocent civilians" when writing about casualties.

etc etc I would go on however it's time you start pointing out proper Israeli lies and fabrications.

 

[GYODX]

Yeah, if the bullets don't kill anyone, it doesn't count.

That seems to be the argument for letting Hamas shoot rockets into Israel with impunity.

 

[Zeeman]

Yeah, if the bullets don't kill anyone, it doesn't count.

It is fairly ridiculous, but honestly, it feels like some people in this thread feel that way about the rockets Hamas fires into Israel as well.

 

[LNBL]

Dutch news had a report today of a Greek-Orthodox church that housed Palestinian refugees in the past days.

 

[Partial Gamification]

Well I already just showed up one lie.

You then have Hamas claiming they kidnapped an Israeli soldier.

You then have dead syrian children showing up apparently in Gaza where they were apparently reanimated, but shortly there after killed by indiscriminate Israeli fire.

You then have the non-uniformed Hamas soldiers getting counted as civilian deaths near consistently. Actively encouraged by Hamas, proof.



etc etc I would go on however it's time you start pointing out proper Israeli lies and fabrications.

No, this is not I'll show you mine if you show me yours. This is your responsibility to prove your claim, or retract it.

 

[GYODX]

Oh ok. So it was nothing too dangerous

You assume that I'm trying to justify what happened, intentional or not.

I merely called you out for being disingenuous and spreading more disinformation in a conflict that's already full of it.

 

[theignoramus]

Are the people who are against Israel, pro hamas? I'm curious to see if some of you support terrorism or terrorist groups.

what an obnoxious post with rotten assumptions therein.

 

[Fenderputty]

Are the people who are against Israel, pro hamas? I'm curious to see if some of you support terrorism or terrorist groups.

This is the single biggest mistake ive seen made in this thread.

 

[LNBL]

Well I already just showed up one lie.

You then have Hamas claiming they kidnapped an Israeli soldier.

You then have dead syrian children showing up apparently in Gaza where they were apparently reanimated, but shortly there after killed by indiscriminate Israeli fire.

You then have the non-uniformed Hamas soldiers getting counted as civilian deaths near consistently. Actively encouraged by Hamas, proof.



etc etc I would go on however it's time you start pointing out proper Israeli lies and fabrications.

What about the evidence that Human Rights Watch did NOT find when researching several attack by Israel? The ones were Israel claimed it was firing on weapons caches and military targets.

That's 1 lie for you.

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/22/gaza-airstrike-deaths-raise-concerns-ground-offensive

Are the people who are against Israel, pro hamas? I'm curious to see if some of you support terrorism or terrorist groups.

Stay classy

 

[kamorra]

Are the people who are against Israel, pro hamas? I'm curious to see if some of you support terrorism or terrorist groups.

Sure, it's the only option. My idols include Bin Laden, Hussein, Hitler, Bush and Gaddafi.

 

[dripdripsplash]

Are the people who are against Israel, pro hamas? I'm curious to see if some of you support terrorism or terrorist groups.

lol.

 

[Freezie KO]

Isnt BBC also state funded?

So, if AJ = Qatar and BBC = UK, then shouldnt both be equally blacklisted. Or is it because we only single out AJ because Qataris are brown people.

You've got to be kidding me. Some media have established standards and more credibility than others. BBC may not be flawless, but it's not at all hard to see the Qatari angle in AJ and the international pieces of AJ English.

Pretending this is a race issue is extremely disingenuous, despite its potential for tricking a few ill-informed people to your defense of Qatar. But given that this is a Palestine thread, I suppose it's appropriate.

--

Of course.

Cool. Well, hopefully the Arab nations will throw in that money and help build a Palestinian state. I mean, we know they won't, but it's nice to dream.

 

[Maninthemirror]

You've got to be kidding me. Some media have established standards and more credibility than others. BBC may not be flawless, but it's not at all hard to see the Qatari angle in AJ and the international pieces of AJ English.

Pretending this is a race issue is extremely disingenuous, despite its potential for tricking a few ill-informed people to your defense of Qatar. But given that this is a Palestine thread, I suppose it's appropriate.

--




Cool. Well, hopefully the Arab nations will throw in that money and help build a Palestinian state. I mean, we know they won't, but it's nice to dream.

Are you saying Fox News should be banned from all middle eastern countries because their agenda is always against muslims majority of which exist in middle eastern countries ? Ridiculous

 

[dripdripsplash]

Cool. Well, hopefully the Arab nations will throw in that money and help build a Palestinian state. I mean, we know they won't, but it's nice to dream.

Arab nations helping the palestinians ? hahahahahhahah

 

[Freezie KO]

Are you saying Fox News should be banned from all middle eastern countries because their agenda is always against muslims majority of which exist in middle eastern countries ? Ridiculous

I already said Al Jazeera should not be banned. But I encourage pointing out the bias of both Al Jazeera and Fox News wherever they are broadcast.

 

[Maninthemirror]

I already said Al Jazeera should not be banned. But I encourage pointing out the bias of both Al Jazeera and Fox News wherever they are broadcast.

Except Al Jazeera doesnt come close to using religion as much as Fox News

Al Jazeera reporting different from us media because its not pro Israeli in many instances so the impact is greater when you read something opposite to what you are used to reading

Us media and government has always had a pro Israeli slant even you cant deny that

 

[Freezie KO]

Except Al Jazeera doesnt come close to using religion as much as Fox News

What are you talking about? You brought up Fox News. I didn't even mention religion.

Me: Al Jazeera is a Qatari mouthpiece.
You: So you think Fox News should be banned because it uses religion more than Al Jazeera?

Do you see how your response is a complete non sequitur to what I said?

 

[Zen]

They are "leveling" Gaza because Hamas does not give them any choice. Had Palestinians elected Fatah again instead of Hamas, we wouldn't be there. Guaranteed.

Israel does not trust Hamas, and why should it? Hamas openly stands for the destruction of Israel.

Israel would probably has still found a pretext, given that the settlement policies in the west bank remain the same, and there is no proof that Hamas had anything to do with the kidnapping.

 

[Maninthemirror]

What are you talking about? You brought up Fox News. I didn't even mention religion.

Me: Al Jazeera is a Qatari mouthpiece.
You: So you think Fox News should be banned because it uses religion more than Al Jazeera?

Do you see how your response is a complete non sequitur to what I said?

See below i was talking of reasons to be banned. Why do you think Al Jazeera is a Qatari mouthpiece . What do you think qatars agenda is with Israel

 

[m_shortpants]

Sure, it's the only option. My idols include Bin Laden, Hussein, Hitler, Bush and Gaddafi.

Don't forget Cheney.

 

[deanfrag]

Okay I'll bite. I'll post some of the stuff I think is notable.

UNWRA finds rockets stored in two of its schools in Gaza:

http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press-releases/unrwa-strongly-condemns-placement-rockets-school
http://www.unrwa.org/newsroom/press...placement-rockets-second-time-one-its-schools

They then returned some of these rockets to the local authorities, ie Hamas:

http://www.thewire.com/global/2014/...those-20-rockets-stashed-their-school/374793/

The Arab League urges Hamas to accept the Egyptian ceasefire deal. The ceasefire was accepted by Israel and endorsed by Egypt, the US, the UN, the EU, the Palestinian Authority and the Arab League. Pretty much everyone in the world except for Hamas, Turkey, Qatar and Iran.

http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/arab-league-chief-urges-hamas-to-accept-egypt-s-truce-plan-562684

For probably the first time in the history of the Arab-Israeli conflict, the foreign minister of an Arab state pretty much openly sides with Israel:

http://af.reuters.com/article/commoditiesNews/idAFL4N0PS4Z820140717

Apparently the Gazans themselves are also for a ceasefire.

http://www.businessinsider.com/gaza-civilians-actually-reject-hamas-policies-2014-7

Meanwhile in Europe: Germany, France, Italy condemn anti-Semitism in anti-Israel protests

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/07/22/us-palestinians-israel-antisemitism-idUSKBN0FR1JB20140722

International airlines cancel their flights to Tel Aviv after a rocket landed one mile away from the Ben Gurion international airport.

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/storie...ME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2014-07-22-13-31-47

The Israeli government is floating a plan to demilitarize Gaza while opening the border crossings under international surveillance and investing 50 billion dollars to build Gaza

http://www.timesofisrael.com/the-mofaz-plan-for-demilitarizing-gaza/

WSJ Reporter in Gaza publishes a tweet wondering how civilians in Gaza feel when Hamas uses a hospital as a safe place to conduct interviews. He later deletes the tweet after being scorned for it:

https://twitter.com/farahmtafa/status/491605917574504448/photo/1

Israel sets up a field hospital to treat injured Palestinians, and it is welcomed by all:

http://twitchy.com/2014/07/20/shut-...-news-that-idf-will-open-gaza-field-hospital/

This should be quoted again.
Bravo.

 

[inm8num2]

Are the people who are against Israel, pro hamas? I'm curious to see if some of you support terrorism or terrorist groups.

 

[Skyzard]

It is fairly ridiculous, but honestly, it feels like some people in this thread feel that way about the rockets Hamas fires into Israel as well.

Tbh, I noticed and it's why I said it.

They may see it as more psychological warfare, because of the lack of deaths.

It's still terrorising but I imagine people consider it a modest form of revenge from distraught and suffocated people and one that lacks in effect when compared to what the Palestinians are putting up with themselves - probably why you don't see them condemning it as much... actually comparing it to what the Palestinians deal with.

 

[curlyfriski]

Israel resumes policy of punitive demolition of homes of Hamas relatives.

 

[Maninthemirror]

Israel resumes policy of punitive demolition of homes of Hamas relatives.

What about the cement ?

 

[elyetis]

That seems to be the argument for letting Hamas shoot rockets into Israel with impunity.

Did someone made it sound like actually killing children would be a decent way to 'defend' themself from missed bullets on a building ?

 

[genjiZERO]

OK, but the fact is that it does exist, so what is your solution?

A single state solution dedicated to tolerance, secularism and being a liberal democracy is the only solution that will work in the long run.

 

[Freezie KO]

See below i was talking of reasons to be banned. Why do you think Al Jazeera is a Qatari mouthpiece . What do you think qatars agenda is with Israel

I don't deny that the US government and Fox News are biased towards Israel. US news on the whole, however, is not government owned (unless you count stuff like minor public funding to PBS or NPR). I wouldn't say all US media are inherenetly biased towards Israel. There are a myriad of different channels, programs, and shows that I would not feel comfortable painting them all with the same brush.

It's fair to say that US media on the whole is probably more inclined to see things from its own interests with Israel as opposed to the European media which may draw attention to Israel when speaking to its large influx of Muslim immigrants. So whether that makes US media biased towards Israel or European media biased against will probably depend on your predisposition.

As for Al Jazeera... it's owned and operated by the Qatari government. It was just last year that reporting staff left en masse because of the bias towards the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt.

So Qatar's loyalties lie with this specific faction of Islamists. And guess who has close ties to the Brotherhood? Hamas. And Qatar was one of four countries to oppose the Egypt-led ceasefire.

 

[Maninthemirror]

A single state solution dedicated to tolerance, secularism and being a liberal democracy is the only solution that will work in the long run.

Israel by definition cannot be a secular state. Its existence is not even secular and neither is the reason Israelis are passionate about it