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[Zen]

http://america.aljazeera.com/opinio...iansconflictunitedstatesinternationallaw.html

This originated from the New York times did it not?

 

[RustyNails]

Article which explains why the demand for Gazans to overthrow Hamas is absurd

Hamas tells the Palestinians the simple truth: freedom comes at the cost of blood. The tragedy is that we usually provide the evidence. After all, the evacuation of settlements in Gaza came after the Second Intifada, not as a result of negotiations. The Oslo Accords came after the First Intifada; before that, Israel turned down even the convenient London Agreement between Shimon Peres and Jordan’s King Hussein.

Israelis are convinced they are fighting a terror organization driven by a fundamentalist Islamic ideology. Palestinians are convinced Israelis are looking to enslave them, and that as soon as the war is over the siege will be reinforced. Since this is exactly what Israel intends to do, as our government has repeatedly stated, they have no reason to stop fighting.

 

[WonkyPanda]

Was this posted? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-menachem-creditor/im-done-apologizing-for-i_b_5606650.html

Got the Bar exam in 7 days (shitting my pants), so I can't join in on the fun internet discourse. Nonetheless, enjoy this piece, and I hope it adds a quantifiable amount of fuel to the proverbial fire.

I'm done apologizing for Israel.

Israel is treating wounded Palestinians during this conflict, risking Israeli lives in surgical strikes to destroy weapons-smuggling tunnels created with building materials Israel allowed into Gaza for infrastructure projects to benefit Palestinian society. Just for a moment, consider the deaths that would result from Israel wishing harm on Palestinian civilians. In just the last 48 hours, Israel has allowed over 10 tons of goods into Gaza. During the past weeks, Israel has agreed to two humanitarian cease-fires. In the first hours of those ceasefires, Hamas rained down over 70 missiles onto Israel civilians.

I ask: What do Israel's enraged critics truly desire? How is it possible to hear indignant claims of human rights violations in the context of Syrians slaughtered by the hundreds of thousands, state-sanctioned terrorism around the globe, and young immigrants treated like chattel by the US and other? Israel is doing its best, sacrificing its own children to preserve the lives of Palestinians.

I also ask, regarding the world's seemingly acceptance of Hamas' tactics as the only remaining option left for a desperate leadership:

Were Hamas to truly lead its people forward to a life of stability and peace, wouldn't it use building materials for schools instead of smuggling tunnels? Wouldn't Hamas stop stockpiling weapons in mosques and transporting them in UN ambulances? Wouldn't Hamas stop firing missiles from civilian population centers if it valued Palestinian lives as much as Israel does? If Israel weren't so concerned for Palestinian lives, wouldn't it respond to Hamas' horrific decisions in kind?

I ask the enraged critics of Israel's defensive responses to Hamas: Would you have us not respond to this monstrosity? Do you think it's not worth losing the PR battle to retain our humanity and save as many lives as possible? What country would stand by when thousands of terrorist missiles assault its citizens? I, a Jew, have lost 20 of my sons in the last three days, because I will not lose my humanity and stage a careless ground war in Gaza that would cause mass casualties. Though I fight monsters, I will not become one.

I am done apologizing for my own Jewish existence.

Some will call this needless hyperbole. But, having watched in this last week anti-Semitic "die-ins" in Boston, violent assaults against Jews in Los Angeles and Antwerp, and an almost pogrom at a synagogue in Paris, I'm done mincing my own words.

We will do what we must to protect our people. We have that right. We are not less deserving of life and quiet than anyone else.

No more apologies.

Pieces omitted. Go to full piece.

Enjoy.

 

[funkmasterb]

Was this posted? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-menachem-creditor/im-done-apologizing-for-i_b_5606650.html

Got the Bar exam in 7 days (shitting my pants), so I can't join in on the fun internet discourse. Nonetheless, enjoy this piece, and I hope it adds a quantifiable amount of fuel to the proverbial fire.




Pieces omitted. Go to full piece.

Enjoy.

Essentially 'I can't hear you, la la la, I only have the time to express my own viewpoint and am not interested in discourse.'

 

[Dead Man]

Was this posted? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-menachem-creditor/im-done-apologizing-for-i_b_5606650.html

Got the Bar exam in 7 days (shitting my pants), so I can't join in on the fun internet discourse. Nonetheless, enjoy this piece, and I hope it adds a quantifiable amount of fuel to the proverbial fire.




Pieces omitted. Go to full piece.

Enjoy.

Good luck on your exam, but that piece is rubbish. Basically acting like Palestinians are a direct threat to every Jew and Israeli on the planet.

I am done apologizing for my own Jewish existence.

Yeah. :/

 

[docbon]

As if anyone cares about some random editor's apology for the actions of others.

 

[EightBitNate]

I think I found it.
Chris Hayes HEATED Debate with Rula Jebreal Who Called Out Israel Coverage - MSNBC - 7-22-14: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZu11fqLT3Y

She's so well spoken

 

[Trojita]

Was this posted? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-menachem-creditor/im-done-apologizing-for-i_b_5606650.html

Got the Bar exam in 7 days (shitting my pants), so I can't join in on the fun internet discourse. Nonetheless, enjoy this piece, and I hope it adds a quantifiable amount of fuel to the proverbial fire.




Pieces omitted. Go to full piece.

Enjoy.

That guy has a full reality distortion going in affect. He mentions them having some sort of restraint as though them not completely destroying Gaza is something to be commended. He somehow laughably compares the US's current immigration issue as being equal to them killing 600+ people and leaving a group of people without a basic means to acquire goods or have electricity in the 21st century. A piece you omitted also complains that Jewish leaders were publicly against the killing of the Palestine teen that was set on fire but that there were people in Palestine handing out candy after the three teens deaths. I didn't realize the Muslim world had one central leadership and that some people that might have been giving out candy equals Palestinian leadership.

 

[Aaron]

Was this posted? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-menachem-creditor/im-done-apologizing-for-i_b_5606650.html

Got the Bar exam in 7 days (shitting my pants), so I can't join in on the fun internet discourse. Nonetheless, enjoy this piece, and I hope it adds a quantifiable amount of fuel to the proverbial fire.




Pieces omitted. Go to full piece.

Enjoy.

Reminds me of Southern slave owners saying how well they treat their slaves, and annoyed by the lack of gratitude they get in return.

 

[Trojita]

As if anyone cares about some random editor's apology for the actions of others.

Menachem Creditor is a Rabbi and chair of a US based Israeli Lobby, not some random editor.

 

[RustyNails]

Was this posted? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-menachem-creditor/im-done-apologizing-for-i_b_5606650.html

Got the Bar exam in 7 days (shitting my pants), so I can't join in on the fun internet discourse. Nonetheless, enjoy this piece, and I hope it adds a quantifiable amount of fuel to the proverbial fire.




Pieces omitted. Go to full piece.

Enjoy.

The crocodile tears only flow for the dead IDF soldiers, not the 500 or so civilians in Gaza. Rest of the article is interspersed with whataboutisms, the "pogrom" at Jewish Synagogue in France, and how should any country react to rocket fire.

This man is a rabble rouser.

 

[Falk]

This is beginning to strike really close to home too. In Boston quite a few protests have broken out, and I'm beginning to actually not feel safe living in an apartment complex that is 90% Jewish.

These people really just want to be able to simply just live their lives and obviously they're going to be concerned about what's happening back in their homeland but are getting threatened for it as if they were directly responsible for killing Palestinians.

Humanity disgusts me sometimes.

 

[docbon]

Menachem Creditor is a Rabbi and chair of a US based Israeli Lobby, not some random editor.

Sorry, the latest batch of news and videos just has me feeling overwhelmingly frustrated. Time to take a break~

 

[Dryk]

These people really just want to be able to simply just live their lives and obviously they're going to be concerned about what's happening back in their homeland but are getting threatened for it as if they were directly responsible for killing Palestinians.

Humanity disgusts me sometimes.

If protestors invade your apartment building point out their hypocrisy and run away. It's about all you can do.

 

[Hitokage]

So your theory of AJ is mouth piece of Qatar is pure conjecture based on shaky assumptions.

There have been some issues:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/07/18/202970802/Al-Jazeera-Under-Fire-For-Its-Egypt-Coverage
http://www.onthemedia.org/story/262087-al-jazeera-and-qatari-governments-editorial-influence/

But apparently it's far less marching orders and more your usual breaches of journalistic integrity from sponsors on select issues.

 

[Whitechocolatekrispies]

The pro-israel side is classing up the joint like always

Oh look a sign equating two islamic terrorists ...

EU politicians speak out after wave of anti-Semitic attacks

In Berlin, police had to step in to protect an Israeli tourist couple at the weekend after protestors turned on them when they spotted the man’s yarmulke. Demonstrators reportedly charged towards the couple shouting “Jew! We’ll get you!”

In Paris, hundreds of protestors have attacked synagogues, smashed the windows of Jewish shops and cafes, and set several alight, including a kosher grocery store which reportedly burned to the ground.
In the Netherlands, the home of the chief rabbi has been attacked with stones twice in one week.

“Anti-Semitic rhetoric and hostility against Jews, attacks on people of Jewish belief and synagogues have no place in our societies,” the German, French and Italian foreign ministers said in a joint statement.

In the west German city of Essen, 14 people have been arrested on suspicion of planning an attack on the city’s Old Synagogue.

There have been reports of protestors in Germany chanting “Jews to the gas chambers”, and police in Berlin have banned protestors from using another popular slogan: “Jew, Jew, cowardly pig, come out and fight alone”.

Police have opened an investigation into the imam of a Berlin mosque after he allegedly called on Muslims to murder Jews in a sermon.

Now this is classy.

 

[NullPointer]

Was this posted? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-menachem-creditor/im-done-apologizing-for-i_b_5606650.html

It begins as:

It's tiring to apologize over and over. Instead, I've decided to come clean: I am a progressive American rabbi who leans left pretty hard. I've been engaged, as a US faith leader, in work to reform gun laws, extend LGBT rights around the world, grant refuge to illegal immigrants, protect women's reproductive choice, and more. Paint me blue.

and then I read this part ...

I, a Jew, have lost 20 of my sons in the last three days, because I will not lose my humanity and stage a careless ground war in Gaza that would cause mass casualties. Though I fight monsters, I will not become one.

... and wonder why, as a faith leader, he doesn't see the nearly 600 dead Palestinians, made up mostly of civilian non-combatants, as his sons and daughters as well.

 

[abuC]

I think I found it.
Chris Hayes HEATED Debate with Rula Jebreal Who Called Out Israel Coverage - MSNBC - 7-22-14: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZu11fqLT3Y

She's amazing.

 

[sindbadthesailor]

Was this posted? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rabbi-menachem-creditor/im-done-apologizing-for-i_b_5606650.html

Got the Bar exam in 7 days (shitting my pants), so I can't join in on the fun internet discourse. Nonetheless, enjoy this piece, and I hope it adds a quantifiable amount of fuel to the proverbial fire.




Pieces omitted. Go to full piece.

Enjoy.

Article's disingenuous rubbish, to be polite. Just another apologist piece that glosses over things like the blockade and settlements; things that anybody would be legitimately angry over if it was happening to them.

 

[mullet2000]

I think I found it.
Chris Hayes HEATED Debate with Rula Jebreal Who Called Out Israel Coverage - MSNBC - 7-22-14: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZu11fqLT3Y

That was very interesting to watch. She handled that very well, she's a very well-spoken woman.

 

[Ashes]

Has this been posted yet? Every Palestinian child that has died since this new bout of violence started, named, with their age. 132 of them in total.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html?fb

Good god almighty.

 

[Matt]

These people really just want to be able to simply just live their lives and obviously they're going to be concerned about what's happening back in their homeland but are getting threatened for it as if they were directly responsible for killing Palestinians.

I object to the idea that Israel is their "homeland" simply because they are Jewish. I'm Jewish, and my homeland is the United States of America.

 

[RustyNails]

There have been some issues:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/parallels/2013/07/18/202970802/Al-Jazeera-Under-Fire-For-Its-Egypt-Coverage
http://www.onthemedia.org/story/262087-al-jazeera-and-qatari-governments-editorial-influence/

But apparently it's far less marching orders and more your usual breaches of journalistic integrity from sponsors on select issues.

Sure I can live with that. Not saying AJ is perfect, but it's not the mouthpiece some folks are making it out to be. Even the most trusted news networks suffered from sponsor/corporate meddling. CBS' battle with 60 minutes' decision to air Jeffery Wigand interview comes to mind.

 

[Kadayi]

... and wonder why, as a faith leader, he doesn't see the nearly 600 dead Palestinians, made up mostly of civilian non-combatants, as his sons and daughters as well.

Antiquated notions of tribalism.

 

[jakomocha]

I personally am super conflicted on this whole crisis I want Israel to exist as a country, and I have family members and friends there, but I can't stand by what they're doing right now. They've killed too many innocents. I'm not really sure what I want- I just wish that there could be peace .

I object to the idea that Israel is their "homeland" simply because they are Jewish. I'm Jewish, and my homeland is the United States of America.

Yeah, WTH. I know it wasn't meant to be offensive, but it came off as that. It's almost as ridiculous as saying all Catholic's homeland is Vatican City, or every Muslim's homeland is the Middle East.

 

[Trojita]

I object to the idea that Israel is their "homeland" simply because they are Jewish. I'm Jewish, and my homeland is the United States of America.

That might be a misuse of a term by the poster. A more accepted term would Homeland if it would be applicable.

 

[DrM]

Has this been posted yet? Every Palestinian child that has died since this new bout of violence started, named, with their age. 132 of them in total.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...ian-children-killed-by-Israeli-forces.html?fb

God damn, whole families wiped out

 

[Chariot]

wrong thread

 

[Hitokage]

Sure I can live with that. Not saying AJ is perfect, but it's not the mouthpiece some folks are making it out to be. Even the most trusted news networks suffered from sponsor/corporate meddling. CBS' battle with 60 minutes' decision to air Jeffery Wigand interview comes to mind.

It also needs to be mentioned that AJE and regular AJ aren't the same news teams, and the latter is significantly the worse one when it comes to that stuff although the former isn't entirely immune.

 

[scytheavatar]

Yeah, WTH. I know it wasn't meant to be offensive, but it came off as that. It's like calling all Catholic's homeland Vatican City, or Muslim's homeland the entire Middle East.

I personally am super conflicted on all this. I want Israel to exist as a country, and I have family members and friends there, but I can't stand by what they're doing right now. They've killed too many innocents. I'm not really sure what I want- I just wish that there could be peace.

First thing you probably should want is to demand that the Jewish lobby in the USA politics to wake up and realize how much harm they are doing to Israel by trying to protect their atrocities. It's important to acknowledge that Hamas certainly isn't the good guys, but by punishing the Palestinian people for Hamas's action it's going to be hard for the Israel government to justify their moral ground.

But the recent conflict, even with all the deaths, is probably a necessity. Netanyahu has been greedy for years and thinks that there's no reason for the Israel government to accept a peace deal with Abbas even though Abbas has been willing to offer much. Hopefully this conflict will end with Netanyahu becoming humbler and realizing how far off the end his government has gone.

 

[unpopularblargh]

I think I found it.
Chris Hayes HEATED Debate with Rula Jebreal Who Called Out Israel Coverage - MSNBC - 7-22-14: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZu11fqLT3Y

This could (should) be it's own thread imo.

 

[TheStruggler]

read the last few pages listening to this, god this is depressing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jGKRXhmFQlw

I wish there was something i could do, so many children killed, so many wives and husbands taken away. Is it wrong to wish to be superman?

 

[kobashi100]

PLO support hamas ceasefire conditions.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/20...ditions-for-ceasefire-live-updates?CMP=twt_gu

 

[curlyfriski]

I think I found it.
Chris Hayes HEATED Debate with Rula Jebreal Who Called Out Israel Coverage - MSNBC - 7-22-14: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZu11fqLT3Y

For what it's worth Chris Hayes is better than the majority of the media on Israel/Palestine from what I've seen, but I disagree that the major American news institutions are significantly fairer this time around. A bit better about telling us what it's like in Gaza, but the framing remains the same.

 

[Falk]

I object to the idea that Israel is their "homeland" simply because they are Jewish. I'm Jewish, and my homeland is the United States of America.

Ancestry. Lineage. Whatever. I'm Chinese and my homeland is Malaysia.

 

[DCharlie]

For what it's worth Chris Hayes is much better than the majority of the media on Israel/Palestine from what I've seen, but I disagree that the major American news institutions are much fairer this time around. A bit better about telling us what it's like in Gaza, but the framing remains the same.

This time around social media and other live reporting makes it impossible for news agencies to completely bury what is going on - i think if this was X years ago, it would be much worse coverage (i.e. completely and utterly one sided with little reporting on dead children).

The availability of information without the need for media funneling of what we see is more responsible for the very slight shift in reporting rather than news agencies thinking "we should report on the Gazan side this time!!"

 

[Kenshin001]

Why does Hamas keep placing rockets in schools?

 

[TheStruggler]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rJ3UZxWAcfw

 

[KtSlime]

Why does Hamas keep placing rockets in schools?

They ran out of space at their military base...

 

[zer0blivion]

She's so well spoken

She's amazing.

That was very interesting to watch. She handled that very well, she's a very well-spoken woman.

This could (should) be it's own thread imo.

She'll be on Democracy Now tomorrow. I encourage anyone following this thread to subscribe to the podcast or watch the videos on their site. http://www.democracynow.org/

 

[Aaron]

Why does Hamas keep placing rockets in schools?

Safest place. Consdering they're abandoned, there's no risk in Israel blowing them up.

 

[neorej]

Why does Hamas keep placing rockets in schools?

Why does Israel keep using weapons with high collateral damage?

 

[Chichikov]

Why does Hamas keep placing rockets in schools?

Is this in response to anything or anyone or you just making sure you hit your talking points quota for today?

 

[Toxi]

Ancestry. Lineage. Whatever. I'm Chinese and my homeland is Malaysia.

How far back do you have to go to reach that Malaysian ancestry? Your parents? Your grandparents?

Jewish people have been living outside of Israel for many generations. They have created entire languages and myths and traditions without setting foot in Israel. Some Jews think of Israel as their homeland, but many don't.

Assuming all Jewish people consider Israel their homeland is kinda like assuming all humans consider Africa as their homeland.

 

[Kenshin001]

Is this in response to anything or anyone or you just making sure you hit your talking points quota for today?

I just read about it. Seems like another dumb move by Hamas. They're abusing the goodwill of the UNRWA and two other schools are being used by displaced Palestinians.

 

[SliceSabre]

I just read about it. Seems like another dumb move by Hamas. They're abusing the goodwill of the UNRWA and two other schools are being used by displaced Palestinians.

Hamas intentionally does things like this in hopes that there will be civilian casualties because it helps support their cause because it makes Israel look like monsters when they target the area shooting rockets at them and they blow up someone's house with a family inside. Hamas know what they're doing can cause civilians to die, they simply do not care.

I mean Hamas is called a terrorist organization for a reason.

 

[linsivvi]

For what it's worth Chris Hayes is better than the majority of the media on Israel/Palestine from what I've seen, but I disagree that the major American news institutions are significantly fairer this time around. A bit better about telling us what it's like in Gaza, but the framing remains the same.

He definitely is, but at the same time even he could do better. Just the other day he had the spokesperson for the Israel prime minister on and you can tell Hayes could barely hold his disdain towards him, and yet questions after questions he just let the guy lie and didn't go hard on him at all.

I mean, why couldn't he have a heated debate with this guy who's obviously a mouthpiece and is spreading half truths or outright lies for Israel?

 

[Toxi]

Hamas intentionally does things like this in hopes that there will be civilian casualties because it helps support their cause because it makes Israel look like monsters when they target the area shooting rockets at them and they blow up someone's house with a family into. Hamas know what they're doing can cause civilians to die, they simply do not care.

The pro-Israel mindset: It is right for the IDF to bomb a hospital to reach Hamas because Hamas might be using the hospital as a shield.

 

[Hitokage]

The pro-Israel mindset: It is right for the IDF to bomb a hospital to reach Hamas because Hamas is using the hospital as a shield.

Taken further: Having civilians in Gaza at all is all part of Hamas's evil plan, so any deaths can't be helped.

 

[Zen]

Hamas intentionally does things like this in hopes that there will be civilian casualties because it helps support their cause because it makes Israel look like monsters when they target the area shooting rockets at them and they blow up someone's house with a family inside. Hamas know what they're doing can cause civilians to die, they simply do not care.

I mean Hamas is called a terrorist organization for a reason.

And neither does Israel. There is no proof that hamas had anything to do with those teenagers deaths, and this all seems very convenient to derail the Unity Government. Something Israel vehemently opposed and tried to convince the US and EU to not even recognize/speak to them.