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[SliceSabre]

And neither does Israel. There is no proof that hamas had anything to do with those teenagers deaths, and this all seems very convenient to derail the Unity Government. Something Israel vehemently opposed and tried to convince the US and EU to not even recognize/speak to them.

A lot of governments in the world have refused and do refuse to do business with entities they view as terrorist organizations. Israel is not alone in this.

 

[eBay Huckster]

A lot of governments in the world have refused and do refuse to do business with entities they view as terrorist organizations. Israel is not alone in this.

then it's weird how every relevant international actor except Israel is "doing business" with the PA unity government in spite of the fact that most of them view one of its component parties as a terrorist organization

 

[Razgreez]

A lot of governments in the world have refused and do refuse to do business with entities they view as terrorist organizations. Israel is not alone in this.

'A lot of governments' have endorsed business with entities who are openly oppressive regimes and organisations. Israel is not alone in this

And all the while innocent people continue to die

 

[Aaron]

Hamas intentionally does things like this in hopes that there will be civilian casualties because it helps support their cause because it makes Israel look like monsters when they target the area shooting rockets at them and they blow up someone's house with a family inside. Hamas know what they're doing can cause civilians to die, they simply do not care.

I mean Hamas is called a terrorist organization for a reason.

Yeah, I'm sure there will be plenty of casualties when Israel bombs an ABANDONED school.

Hamas is called a terrorist organization because Israel and the US insisted it was after their corrupt allies in Palestine lost the election. US has a long history of demonizing governments that beat the puppets they had propped up.

 

[fantomena]

Jon Stewart Learns What Happens When You Criticize Israel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrlUzkd8Z8g&feature=youtu.be

Also, this is what a Norwegian journalist from the Norwegian TV channel TV 2 wrote today on Facebook:

Vær så snill. Nå er det nok. Over to tusen hatmld i form av sms mail twittermld og fb mld er for mye. Jeg avlyste ferien for å dekke en krig. Nå angrer jeg. Hatet fra Israelelskerne er mer enn jeg orker. Nå er det nok. Jeg er alene om å motta og forsøke å svare på kritikken som kommer på denne siden og på min twitterkonto. Dette er IKKE en TV2-administrert side. Den administreres ikke av noen andre enn meg. Nå vil jeg slippe. Jeg skal ikke plage noen av dere med antall drepte barn. La meg være i fred. Og la meg slippe mer hat.

Tried to translate:

Please. It's enough. Over 2 thousand hate messages on SMS, Twitter and Facebook is too much. I cancelled my vacation to cover a war. Now I regret. The hate from the Israel-lovers is too much than I can handle. Now it's enough. I am alone about receiving and trying to answer on the criticism on this Facebook page and my Twitter account. This is NOT a TV 2 administrated channel. It is not being administrated by anyone than me. Now I want to let go. Im not gonna bother anyone of you with the numbers of killed children. Let me be in peace. And no more hate.

 

[antonz]

Yep it is out of hand. I went to turn on the news last night and the first thing out of the speakers I hear is them referring to protests as Anti-Semetic marches around the country. That was enough to just turn the tv off.

You are basically a Nazi to these people if you don't support everything Israel does. I mean they came right out and said John Stewart is a self hating jew because he doesn't tow the Israeli line 100%.

Was asked where my swastika armband is on twitter when I dared to criticize the bloodshed

 

[Manmademan]

Yep it is out of hand. I went to turn on the news last night and the first thing out of the speakers I hear is them referring to protests as Anti-Semetic marches around the country. That was enough to just turn the tv off.

You are basically a Nazi to these people if you don't support everything Israel does. I mean they came right out and said John Stewart is a self hating jew because he doesn't tow the Israeli line 100%.

Was asked where my swastika armband is on twitter when I dared to criticize the bloodshed

I don't even watch stewart anymore, but I'm not surprised. my facebook feed is full of this kind of vitriol. you're either pro-israel, or you're accused of being a terrorist supporter, or if jewish a "self hating jew". There is no middle ground. This is very, very disturbing.

 

[Aaron]

I don't even watch stewart anymore, but I'm not surprised. my facebook feed is full of this kind of vitriol. you're either pro-israel, or you're accused of being a terrorist supporter, or if jewish a "self hating jew". There is no middle ground. This is very, very disturbing.

Because propaganda works. It worked for the Nazis.

 

[Manmademan]

Because propaganda works. It worked for the Nazis.

it works until it stops working.

It looks like it's beginning to "stop working."

 

[GhostWriter24]

Because propaganda works. It worked for the Nazis.

Is this necessary?

 

[Hitokage]

Aaaaand here come the Nazi comparisons...

There are other examples of right wing militarism to chose from. Netanyahu and Likud are hardly unique in the pages of history.

Unfortunately, neither is a group of historically oppressed people oppressing others.

 

[MacNille]

It is the opposite here in Sweden. If you are not pro-Palestine, you are worse then the Nazi and you are a racist. No middle ground in this fucking conflict. Fuck this conflict.

 

[Chariot]

Because propaganda works. It worked for the Nazis.

Just sayn, propaganda isn't just a nazi thing. It is everywhere in every country in different variations. I think the United States are heavy on propaganda, too. Even in germany, where propaganda is very tame and a more subtle, since people keep a keener eye on us thanks to the history.

 

[Manmademan]

Just sayn, propaganda isn't just a nazi thing. It is everywhere in every country in different variations. I think the United States are heavy on propaganda, too. Even in germany, where propaganda is very tame and a more subtle, since people keep a keener eye on us thanks to the history.

sort of. it was pretty bad post-9/11, when conservatives blindly supported anything bush did, and any sort of criticism was met with "dissent is unpatriotic, don't like it? leave."

 

[Hitokage]

sort of. it was pretty bad post-9/11, when conservatives blindly supported anything bush did, and any sort of criticism was met with "dissent is unpatriotic, don't like it? leave."

Claims of being unamerican, and such.

 

[Jackpot]

Wikipedia already did.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al_Jazeera#Controversies_associated_with_Al_Jazeera

You didn't actually read that link did you? Can't say I'm surprised given your selective responses and outright fabrications.

 

[Miles Quaritch]

Thought the reaction to this was interesting.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28424396

Are the comments vile?

 

[Aaron]

Just sayn, propaganda isn't just a nazi thing. It is everywhere in every country in different variations. I think the United States are heavy on propaganda, too. Even in germany, where propaganda is very tame and a more subtle, since people keep a keener eye on us thanks to the history.

Propaganda is old as shit, but the Nazis brought it into the modern era. They took Napolean's domineering sense of pride and justness of the cause, and added in the fear of the other. They packaged it with grandstanding and big speeches that painted their enemies as the true villains that made any of their actions justified. US's manifest destiny was amateur hour in comparison.

 

[anonymous_abc]

Thought the reaction to this was interesting.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28424396

Are the comments vile?

It's a shame, but in the public light one is probably best off not saying anything on this topic. just blending it out entirely.

 

[Chariot]

Propaganda is old as shit, but the Nazis brought it into the modern era. They took Napolean's domineering sense of pride and justness of the cause, and added in the fear of the other. They packaged it with grandstanding and big speeches that painted their enemies as the true villains that made any of their actions justified. US's manifest destiny was amateur hour in comparison.

I actually believe the british did it first. Sorry for lazily quoting wikipedia, but the article actually has a nice collection of things the british did.

In Germany, military officials such as Ludendorff suggested that British propaganda had been instrumental in their defeat. Adolf Hitler echoed this view, and the Nazis later used many British propaganda techniques during their time in power.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_propaganda_during_World_War_I

 

[Kenshin001]

Thought the reaction to this was interesting.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28424396

Are the comments vile?

Ich bin ein #palestinian - the West must make up its mind - which side is it on?

Unfortunate choice of language there.

 

[Chariot]

Unfortunate choice of language there.

Why? It's an reference to Kennedies famours speech in Berlin.

"Ich bin ein Berliner"

Which still don't make much sense, the commenter want to choose sides instead of uniting two halves, but the language isn't bad at all.

 

[Hitokage]

The West is obviously on the western side.

 

[Manmademan]

Why? It's an reference to Kennedies famours speech in Berlin.

"Ich bin ein Berliner"

Which still don't make much sense, the commenter want to choose sides instead of uniting two halves, but the language isn't bad at all.

I am a jelly donut?

 

[Chariot]

The West is obviously on the western side.

Haha

I am a jelly donut?

Yes, wasn't he the sweetest Jelly Donut?

 

[Kenshin001]

Why? It's an reference to Kennedies famours speech in Berlin.

"Ich bin ein Berliner"

Which still don't make much sense, the commenter want to choose sides instead of uniting two halves, but the language isn't bad at all.

I know what it's a reference to. Doesn't change the fact using German in the context of sympathising with the enemies of the Jews was kind of dumb.

 

[nib95]

Thought the reaction to this was interesting.

http://m.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-28424396

Are the comments vile?

If my country was under a brutal occupation, structures and countless homes being destroyed and my people being displaced in masses on a weekly, monthly and yearly basis, essentially being colonised. If I was under siege, my nations supplies, electricity, trade, import/export, building materials, food and water etc being controlled by the occupation and had been for decades on end. And for resisting the occupation and colonisation, I'd seen my friends or family brutalised, arrested, jailed, tortured or worse, then yea, I can't say I wouldn't be there to fire rockets back at the occupier and aggressor either.

Anyway…

Al-Jazeera Gaza offices evacuated after direct hit by Israeli fire
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jul/22/al-jazeera-gaza-offices-hit-israeli-fire

BBC Arabic Reporter Feras Khatib Attacked On Air By 'Angry Israeli'
http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/201...d-by-angry-israeli-live-on-air_n_5609764.html

 

[Chariot]

I know what it's a reference to. Doesn't change the fact using German in the context of sympathising with the enemies of the Jews was kind of dumb.

Oh, this is interesting. I thought the Hamas were the enemies of the Israel and not the palestinensi the enemies of the jews. Please tell me more.

Meanwhile in the news

Thousands of jews flee from paris to Israel. People are less scared of Hamas rockets than the anit-semitism on the street of france. Which is sometimes a bit of difficult, since a lot of international airlines don't fly into Israel anymore

Sources are all german

 

[B4D1E]

If my country was under a brutal occupation, structures and countless homes being destroyed and my people being displaced in masses on a weekly, monthly and yearly basis, essentially being colonised. If I was under siege, my nations supplies, electricity, trade, import/export, building materials, food and water etc being controlled by the occupation and had been for decades on end. And for resisting the occupation and colonisation, I'd seen my friends or family brutalised, arrested, tortured or worse, then yea, I can't say I wouldn't be there to fire rockets back at the occupier and aggressor either.

No, they expect you to be gratefull and sign a cease-fire that worsen your situation...

 

[quantumnerd]

This issue is a mess for me. People are getting pretty snippy about people they don't agree with (one of the first replies is from someone saying that they've removed from their life anyone on the Israeli side). When people remove the middle ground, things go south.

Yes, Israel is killing Palestinian civilians with disproportionate response -- were shells really necessary instead of more targeted munitions? But the Palestinians deliberately pump the casualty counts to gain support -- is it still a conventional massacre if the victims walked into the line of fire? But a lot of these people have nowhere to go. But a lot of the surrounding countries won't take refugees. The political stalemate is a similar mess. Ugh.

All that said, I still have a minor quibble. The thread title refers to the killings as a massacre -- that's spinning and taking a side. Given that the average person where I live would call that "insane collateral damage", and it's happened before, at least explaining how the deaths are different than normal/than CNN-reported is necessary. Direct quoting is not explaining. Were missiles fired from those homes? Unexplained. Is the implication that ground troops executed people?

 

[B4D1E]

Oh, this is interesting. I thought the Hamas were the enemies of the Israel and not the palestinensi the enemies of the jews. Please tell me more.

Meanwhile in the news

Thousands of jews flee from paris to Israel. People are less scared of Hamas rockets than the anit-semitism on the street of france. Which is sometimes a bit of difficult, since a lot of international airlines don't fly into Israel anymore

Sources are all german

The situation in France, is just drama-queen act by the CRIF. It's a known fact that the LDJ infiltrate the manifestation to make them derail and finish with violence.

Just look at their PM:

 

[massivekettle]

You didn't actually read that link did you? Can't say I'm surprised given your selective responses and outright fabrications.

Hopefully the following shall work

http://bit.ly/1pcnj61

 

[nib95]

I think I found it.
Chris Hayes HEATED Debate with Rula Jebreal Who Called Out Israel Coverage - MSNBC - 7-22-14: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZu11fqLT3Y

She composed herself and presented her side very well indeed. Respect to Rula.

 

[Chariot]

The situation in France, is just drama-queen act by the CRIF. It's a known fact that the LDJ infiltrate the manifestation to make them derail and finish with violence.

Just look at their PM:

I see. I can totally believe that, but please don't think at the "just look at him"-level. We'r not in a movie where your look is a clear indicator what alignment you have. He looks a bit grumpy in that picture, but surely that doesen't make him evil. If you had some information about what he he may did, that would be cool.

 

[nib95]

Hopefully the following shall work

http://bit.ly/1pcnj61

You're doing the disservice of mixing two very different news organisations that have different staff and management. Al-Ajazeera Arab and Al-Jazeera International are very different. The latter is one of the most respected news organisations in the world, and compromised of talent from many of the most respected news outlets and publications around the world as well.

The minor amount of bias accusations the latter has had, is also considerably less than what most of the major popular networks (in the US, and the UK since that is the country I'm from) have faced.

CNN.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=cnn+biased+coverage

BBC.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=bbc+biased+coverage

Fox News.
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fox+news+biased+coverage

MSNBC
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=msnbc+biased+coverage

Sky News
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=sky+news+biased+coverage

 

[Dopus]

Hopefully the following shall work

http://bit.ly/1pcnj61

Al Jazeera is one of the most respected news outlets out there. Of course, there will always be a bias with any network but to single out Al Jazeera without giving any examples....

Where do you get your news from?

 

[deathkiller]

All that said, I still have a minor quibble. The thread title refers to the killings as a massacre -- that's spinning and taking a side.

Massacre refers to the amount of civilian deaths in a short time in a single place, I don't know about others but at least the public Spanish TV news refereed to it as massacre.

 

[B4D1E]

I see. I can totally believe that, but please don't think at the "just look at him"-level. We'r not in a movie where your look is a clear indicator what alignment you have. He looks a bit grumpy in that picture, but surely that doesen't make him evil. If you had some information about what he he may did, that would be cool.

Sorry, I should have elaborated a bit more. It's more about what he says. It seems like he's more focused on Israel than on his own country (when he was interior minister at least).

Here is some link (in french):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRrOBE3OerI
http://www.egaliteetreconciliation.fr/Manuel-Valls-affirme-son-engagement-absolu-pour-Israel-20124.html

 

[Hindle]

I'm inclined to believe Hamas and the Jihadist groups do use human shields in this conflict, as it's the same tactics Al Queida and it's offshoots use.

But... It's obvious the IDF use this as an excuse as well. It's a case of 50/50.

 

[kurtrussell]

And on a slightly lighter note, here's Tinder's take on the Israel-Gaza conflict.

 

[marrec]

I'm inclined to believe Hamas and the Jihadist groups do use human shields in this conflict, as it's the same tactics Al Queida and it's offshoots use.

But... It's obvious the IDF use this as an excuse as well. It's a case of 50/50.

It's not really that hard to not blow up entire residential neighborhoods. It may be more dangerous to do a house by house clear... but you'd get less dead kids that way.

 

[Jackpot]

Hopefully the following shall work

http://bit.ly/1pcnj61

So you have no counter-arguments or evidence. Only weak trolls. Are you even capable of debating or are you just so angry people disproved what you posted?

Funny thing is that google search didn't even provide any damning links at all.

 

[enewtabie]

Didn't see this posted,but sorry if already.
Hamas says they are targeting the Airport. Apparently hit a house a mile away.

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/...nes-were-targeting-ben-gurion-airport-n153446

 

[marrec]

Didn't see this posted,but sorry if already.
Hamas says they are targeting the Airport. Apparently hit a house a mile away.

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/storyline/...nes-were-targeting-ben-gurion-airport-n153446

Well, it does host a military air base, so if a few civilians die it's not really Hamas' fault.

 

[gutterboy44]

In light of the airlines starting to cancel flights, I thought this was a funny contradiction.

Israel regarding: the justification of the Gaza ground invasion - "The rockets are a grave threat, they endanger the lives of millions and millions of people. We live in constant terror."

Israel regarding: airlines indefinitely canceling all flights into Israel - "What rockets? Oh those things are just like a few over-sized bottle rockets. It is totally safe to fly planes here."

 

[B4D1E]

In light of the airlines starting to cancel flights, I thought this was a funny contradiction.

Israel regarding: the justification of the Gaza ground invasion - "The rockets are a grave threat, they endanger the lives of millions and millions of people. We live in constant terror."

Israel regarding: airlines indefinitely canceling all flights into Israel - "What rockets? Oh those things are just like a few over-sized bottle rockets. It is totally safe to fly planes here."

Irony, how does it work? lol

 

[Dash27]

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...-lands-tel-aviv-talks-netanyahu-abbas-n162721

John Kerry Lands in Tel Aviv for Talks With Netanyahu, Abbas

U.S. officials have downplayed expectations for an immediate truce between Israel and the Hamas militant group that controls Gaza, but Kerry said Tuesday that he wanted to discuss options for a long-lasting settlement as well as a humanitarian cease-fire.

Not sure what Abbas is going to be able to do about anything. Or Kerry for that matter.

Meanwhile in Hamas land:

http://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/mi...s-found-vacant-school-gaza-unrwa-says-n162726

Cache of Rockets Found at Vacant School in Gaza, UNRWA Says

And as for the tunnels:

Israeli officials, who revealed that they had been planning for a year to destroy the tunnels, began their ground assault on Thursday, after 10 days of bombardment, when 13 Hamas gunmen emerged from one underground passage near a kibbutz in southern Israel.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/23/w...n-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=1

Tunnels from Gaza to Israel have had a powerful hold on the Israeli psyche since 2006 when Hamas militants used one to capture an Israeli soldier, Gilad Shalit, who was held for five years before being released in a prisoner exchange.

The tunnels can be up to 90 feet underground and reinforced with concrete, a scarce commodity in Gaza, where most imports of construction material are banned by Israel except for internationally supervised projects. The material — the military estimates 600,000 tons — may have come through different smuggling tunnels from Egypt or have been diverted from its intended purpose.

The lack of concrete for building has left many Gazans unable to rebuild their homes and hampered construction projects that provide Gazans with jobs.

 

[genjiZERO]

How far back do you have to go to reach that Malaysian ancestry? Your parents? Your grandparents?

Jewish people have been living outside of Israel for many generations. They have created entire languages and myths and traditions without setting foot in Israel. Some Jews think of Israel as their homeland, but many don't.

Assuming all Jewish people consider Israel their homeland is kinda like assuming all humans consider Africa as their homeland.

I think he means he's a Malaysian national, but is ethnically Chinese. There are a ton of ethnic (Cantonese speaking) Chinese in Malaysia.

I think you make a good point!

 

[nib95]

In light of the airlines starting to cancel flights, I thought this was a funny contradiction.

Israel regarding: the justification of the Gaza ground invasion - "The rockets are a grave threat, they endanger the lives of millions and millions of people. We live in constant terror."

Israel regarding: airlines indefinitely canceling all flights into Israel - "What rockets? Oh those things are just like a few over-sized bottle rockets. It is totally safe to fly planes here."

That is quite amusing. What was/were the actual quotes from Israel spokespersons regarding the latter?

 

[ZiZ]

From the washington post: