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2014 Israel-Gaza Conflict [UN: 1,525+ Palestinian dead, mostly civilian; 66 Israeli]
- Thread starter L0st Id3ntity
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You really think Hamas is a resistor of occupation? When they clearly define themselves as islamic extremists?
Israel has clearly defined themselves as war criminals.
Does being Muslim is somehow in conflict of resisting occupation?
Also, what does "extremists" mean in this context? I doubt they define themselves as such.
Tell your bosses at idf they need better sources now.
the killings are obviously disproportionate and out of control but I can't get behind the idea of this being ethnic cleansing. Ethnic cleansing is the forced removal of people, i doubt Israel actually expects the gazans to go anywhere. Israel isn't destroying muslim cultural sites or mosques in Gaza. A lot of these casualties are likely unlawful killings under international law but the claims regarding ethnic cleansing doesn't seem reasonable to me. For one, as hawkish as the government in Israel is I would like to think that a) they wouldn't be so cold blooded as to want to murder 1.8 million people in gaza and erase any record of their existence or b) if the were so cold blooded that they weren't dumb enough to think it to be a viable strategy
Being exremists and have opinions like these:
http://www.adl.org/anti-semitism/muslim-arab-world/c/hamas-in-their-own-words.html
as opposed to Fatah which actually improved its people's condition in Ramallah and other areas ruled by it, trying to embrace a more peaceful, less islam based leadership.
Ethnic cleansing in this context is not used as a way to describe the intention, but the actual results. Whatever Israel is *trying* to achieve is irrelevant, what is happening in Gaza is basically ethnic cleansing.
Gentleman Jack
Member
The man who wrote this is not a credible journalist. Apply the slightest amount of critical thinking to your sources and you'd see this.
Oh I'm not a soldier anymore, but thanks for the tip.
It's nice to think you have the better sources, although I can claim Al jazeera and the likes are as biased as these sites are alleged to be.
ricardokenshin
Member
Does anybody know if the "Hasbara war room" thing is true? and does this forum can fall victim to being spammed by them?
Is the Human Rights Watch biased as well?
Freezie KO
Banned
It's an issue of land, but I don't think you can say that religion doesn't enter into it. Clearly, the settlements in the West Bank have more support among Orthodox Jews who just want to leech off the state and get money to study the Old Testament.
Meanwhile, Pew Research found that 40% of Palestinians support suicide bombings in defense of Islam and 89% favored Sharia Law. Which is frankly terrifying.
Hamas may be a "resistance" movement, but they also run TV shows (easily found on YouTube) with fake Barney the Dinosaur and Mickey Mouse characters shouting to "kill the Jews", with "Jews" being different than "Israelis."
What do you think about the amount of civilians killed? Since you were a soldier, I'm interested in your reasoning for why so many civilians had to die for, what seems to be, no reason.
THere are paid Hasbara people, but I doubt they'll go on NeoGAF, really.
Gentleman Jack
Member
From the article you posed
And it's good to see you admit no higher standards for your sources than 'that other biased source' which only reported on a death and dozens of injuries, a story since widely corroborated across every other major news source.
That's pretty shitty. Almost as shitty as massacring children indiscriminately. If you want to get into a pissing contest of who's done more evil, it's going to be ugly. I'm very critical of Islam - but if you step on someone's neck, they're going to fight back.
Oh so you are actually ex IDF? Lol. On a side note, you're probably confusing Al Jazeera Arab with Al Jazeera International. The latter is one of the most respected and reputable news organisations in the world, with far fewer controversies surrounding bias than most major news networks out there.
Freezie KO
Banned
I'm not trying to get into a pissing match at all. You said it's not a religious issue, and I disputed that. Your snarky remark about children didn't even disagree with my assertion that religion entered into this conflict. I found your reply rather odd, to be honest.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't know. NeoGAF is inside the top 1,250 websites in the US by traffic, according to Alexa. That's pretty significant when you consider a number of those above won't have chat or social features.
Should have posted in this thread and not in the other one.
Ok. So if I am listening correctly. The Israeli Army has blocked off entry into Al - Aqsa mosque for the Palestinians. The Palestinians want to go pray there tonight, as it is a holy night in Ramadan. I'm reading some 70.000 protesters are on foot atm (Not confirmed) and I already saw some people being dragged away with severe injuries on live tv. Palestinians armed with stones and fireworks, which they are throwing to the side of the IDF.
I really hope the violence doesn't spread to the West Bank
I have a feeling Israel would love an excuse to launch a campaign into the West Bank. They could use it to get a year's worth of work done demolishing homes for settlements in a matter of days. Hopefully I'm wrong.
L O Fucking L. Americans couldn't be bothered to protest when the banks crashed the global economy, stole billions of dollars, laundered money for drug cartels, and illegally kicked people out of their homes with near impunity. If we can't even get off our asses about stuff directly affecting our own country in such a negative way, what makes you think people would care about this? Especially with the biased way the media here is portraying this conflict, most Americans only exposure/information about this basically comes from IDF propaganda. It's a pretty hopeless situation, and waiting on the US or it's citizens to do anything about this will leave you waiting forever.
Well to be fair to him, about 70% of Israelis are ex-IDF. I mean, it is mandatory here.
There is a refusal of service movement, but it's pretty marginal. I managed to serve as a graphic designer, because I really couldn't have done anything else without it burdening my soul with guilt.
And Hamas also runs a charity, this is a complicated situation, so let's not try and make anyone here the "bad guys". The relevant thing is that hundreds are dead, and more are dying all the time.
To say this is a religious issue is to ignore the shortage of food and basic amenities caused by the Gaza blockade; a crippled economy, harassment and beatings by Israeli troops in the West Bank; detention without trial and torture; forced exile and denial of citizenship; a permit and strictly imposed movement system reminiscent of the pass laws and townships of apartheid South Africa, not to forget the civilian death toll suffered by the Palestinians, a death toll which is far, far greater than that suffered by the Israelis.
Those aren't religious issues. If this happened in a secular country, you'd find a resistance movement within hours.
I really hope the violence doesn't spread to the West Bank
I have a feeling Israel would love an excuse to launch a campaign into the West Bank. They could use it to get a year's worth of work done demolishing homes for settlements in a matter of days. Hopefully I'm wrong.
L O Fucking L. Americans couldn't be bothered to protest when the banks crashed the global economy, stole billions of dollars, laundered money for drug cartels, and illegally kicked people out of there homes with near impunity. If we can't even get off our asses about stuff directly affecting our own country in such a negative way, what makes you think people would care about this? Especially with the biased way the media here is portraying this conflict, most Americans only exposure/information about this basically comes from IDF propaganda. It's a pretty hopeless situation, and waiting on the US or it's citizens to do anything about this will leave you waiting forever.
I think the Westbank has now "entered" the stage as well, this is the largest demonstration in years. More people seem to be joining in as well.
The IDF fully knows the people will not be happy if they close the mosque on this specific night ( first time in years apparently).
Yes, I do.
Seeing the fact they are criticizing Israel's alleged war crimes, while completely ignoring many other war crimes commited all over the world such as Darfour, Soudan, Syria(700 killed just this weekend) North Korea, Nigeria and many other wonderful countries, shows they have a fixation on Israel on the matter.
Freezie KO
Banned
You can accept those things as part of the conflict as well without ignoring the influence of religion. The first thing I said was that it was a land issue. And of course, the history goes back before just what you've cited. But nonetheless, are we not discussing the possibility of violence because Israel closed off a specific building during a "holy month"?
ricardokenshin
Member
That would explain some of the responses, thanks.
Do you think that the possibility of violence would be just as likely if the building being closed was some other sanctuary or 'safe-zone' where a civilized community gathers regularly?
Under what definition?
Also RE: human rights watch, the money trail leads to george soros, who is a non-practicing jew that survived the holocaust. He is critical of israels policies but not against israel in general. I find it unlikely that HRW carrying out some kind of agenda beyond their stated purpose.
SYRIA THO
WHAT ABOUT SYRIA
WHAT ABOUT SYRIA
That hundreds of people of a certain ethnic background are being killed?
Why citizens were killed? Because Gaza is the most crowded small area in the world, and twhen an army tries to do anything in the area, it will hurt civilians. It's a shitty thing, I admit. But I also know Hamas' methods and ways of attracting all the negativity towards us.
WTF?
There's this tool you should take a look at. It's called google.
How you use it is, you put "Human Rights Watch" and then various other terms like "Darfur", "Syria", "North Korea" or "Nigeria" after that and hit enter.
Tell me what comes up.
Freezie KO
Banned
No. I believe the fact that this is a holy site matters greatly. The West Bank isn't being bombed with airstrikes. They're not using Al Aqsa as a "safe zone." Muslims want to get into Al Aqsa during Ramadan, but the Israelis closed access. Specifics matter.
As repugnant as I think the views expressed by some pro-israeli posters are, I don't think fixating on this possibility is productive to the discussion in any way.
EDIT**Nevermind. I read that wrong.
Human Rights Watch condemns and reports upon all of the above. If Israel keeps up on going human rights violations, maybe you should blame Israel and not the Human Rights Watch for highlighting them.
Also, it's interesting that none of the others you listed are developed nations holding supposed "Western values". Those are some great role models for Israel to be compared to...
You don't think the UN has had anything to say about Syria?
Syria crisis: UN implicates Bashar al-Assad in war crimes
A shitty thing? Shitty? Fuck off
At the time when it was the hot topic, for sure. But these days Israel is number one on their priorities. The response of the UN to many war crimes on many countries, and their condemnation of certain groups and terrorists was non-existent.
Kadayi
Banned
Gotta love 'whataboutism' as if somehow that constitutes some form of defence in the face of your own crimes.
You really want to start defaming the United Nations and every independent observer? Do you not see how foolish that makes you?
StopMakingSense
Member
There's a certain lack of self-awareness here.
You mean these days, when there are human rights violations occurring currently in Gaza? That's when UN is condemning Israel?
Also, the UN is still doing a LOT in Syria - it's just that because right now Israel is conducting an operation in Gaza it's on the news.
Let's say for example, there WERE human rights violations happening in Gaza (just play along for a second) what reaction from the UN would make you happy? If they said "You know what, let's not say anything about Israel yet, we still haven't solved the problem in Syria" ?
You're being intentionally dense. By your definition any war with civilian casualties and a at least one ethnicity (which was all of them) constitute ethnic cleansing. Were the germans ethnically cleansing the British during the blitz? All of the civilian casualties during the blitz were british...
By being indiscriminate in your definition you take away the meaning of the word as it relates to ACTUAL occurrences of ethnic cleansing, such as rwanda (800,000 tutsi's massacred at end of a machete...) or serbia (murder and force removal of tens of thousands of ethnic Muslims and the destruction of their culture), or, you know... the holocaust
Do you understand why Israel is a hot topic today? Because it comes across as if you don't.
800 deaths and more than 5000 injured palestinians.
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