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2014 Israel-Gaza Conflict [UN: 1,525+ Palestinian dead, mostly civilian; 66 Israeli]

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Did you wanted Snow to offer Regev an apple pie and exchange niceties. I think he asked the right questions, matter of fact, I wished he followed up on them. You know when your country has bombed and killed 800 innocent civilians within two weeks, kid gloves better come the fuck off.

All media spokesmen are companymen. But Mark Regev is especially insufferable.

Those instances you mention of US indirectly negotiating with Taliban aren't in the same category of Israel making peace with Hamas. US does not have to live with Taliban on their doorstep, but Israel has to live with Hamas. The point of diplomatic relations is moot, as long as you sit together and talk. Jon Snow was asking perfectly valid question, and to be honest, if you don't think Israel and Hamas should start talking, you're also part of the problem. Only way to achieve piece is to sit down and talk.

Typing this from my iPhone so expect typos. I expected a proper interview, I don't think making someone squirm is what makes a good interview. One can sit down with Dick Cheney and call him an evil fascist pig and you might make him squirm, that doesn't make it a good interview. Snow failed to take into account any of Regevs points, let's say for instance Hamas is firing rockets near these civilian centers, what does he expect Israel to do? In those instances he should have been asking how Israel is choosing their targets and whether they are aware of the civilians nearby and how do they account for that in their targeting.

As far as the talking point goes, personally I'm all for Israel sitting down and talking with Hamas . That said there are political realities that must be dealt with, formal negotiations with Hamas would serve to legitimize them and their actions in the minds of Israel. In effect, rewarding Hamas for firing rockets into Israel. If direct talks were to occur between both sides Israel would have to get something out of it, such as a renouncing of the use of violence by Hamas. Otherwise, Israel has no incentive to change the status quo and weaken its political position.
 
Also, asking why don't you just talk to Hamas? Is like asking why the U.S. doesn't directly talk with Iran or N. Korea, international relations are far more complex than simply sitting down and talking with the other side. While Israel hasn't spoken directly with Hamas it is not as if they do not have communication with them, it's simply handled through intermediaries. The same way diplomacy is conducted around the world when two states do not have formal diplomatic ties.

Uhhhh...the USA is involved in direct talks with Iran right now, much to the chagrin of Israel.
 
Uhhhh...the USA is involved in direct talks with Iran right now, much to the chagrin of Israel.

We are currently holding talks with Iran alongside our European partners regarding specifically the issue of nuclear weapons. We do not have formal diplomatic relations with Iran nor do we conduct one on one talks with them.
 
Hamas is firing rockets near these civilian centers, what does he expect Israel to do?
Ask yourself, why are they shooting rockets?

formal negotiations with Hamas would serve to legitimize them and their actions in the minds of Israel.
That they were democratically elected legitimizes them.

If direct talks were to occur between both sides Israel would have to get something out of it, such as a renouncing of the use of violence by Hamas.
Give up more or we'll keep bombing you?
 
We are currently holding talks with Iran alongside our European partners regarding specifically the issue of nuclear weapons. We do not have formal diplomatic relations with Iran nor do we conduct one on one talks with them.

True (although, IIRC, we did have top secret one on one talks with them leading up to the formal negotiations on the nuclear issue). However we are on the right path towards a formal diplomatic relationship, rather than bombing the shit out of them (like many right-wingers in the US wanted, including John McCain and Mitt Romney).

The point is that Israel could have attempted to pursue diplomatic solutions much more than they have.
 
Ask yourself, why are they shooting rockets?


That they were democratically elected legitimizes them.


Give up more or we'll keep bombing you?

I don't know why you are directing these questions at me, I never said this was my position I said this is the position of Israel. Second, just because a government is democratically elected doesn't mean another State has to recognize its legitimacy.
 
I don't know why you are directing these questions at me, I never said this was my position I said this is the position of Israel. Second, just because a government is democratically elected doesn't mean another State has to recognize its legitimacy.

So why does Israel have a problem with Hamas not recognizing Israel?
 
So why does Israel have a problem with Hamas not recognizing Israel?

Um, because any sovereign state that isn't recognized by another is going to have a problem with it, that's how politics work. Legitimacy is something that can only be conferred by the international community, it is not something a State automatically obtains. For example, the U.S. only recognized the People's Republic of China as the official government of China in the 1960's after years of recognizing Taiwan as the true government of China.
 
I laugh at people who say that Hamas were democratically elected.

They muscled the opposition out, executed influential families that were linked to opposition parties, used intimidation to get elected and now they are stuck with them

Hamas are thugs and they made everything worse ever since they have been in power in Gaza
 
I laugh at people who say that Hamas were democratically elected.

They muscled the opposition out, executed influential families that were linked to opposition parties, used intimidation to get elected and now they are stuck with them

Hamas are thugs and they made everything worse ever since they have been in power in Gaza


Don't lie.
 
I laugh at people who say that Hamas were democratically elected.

They muscled the opposition out, executed influential families that were linked to opposition parties, used intimidation to get elected and now they are stuck with them

Hamas are thugs and they made everything worse ever since they have been in power in Gaza

so just like Sisi in Egypt, who then gave a ceasefire deal to Hamas which thus would make the ceasefire illegitimate.
 
Hassan Nasrallah will give a speech in 7 minutes for Quds day. Wonder what he has to say, though with the situation in Syria it's unlikely he will get involved.
 

Not what I saw. He asked him a lot of tough questions and Regev answered them. I thought it was a good interview, he was right up front about it. I'd like to see a similar one with a Hamas leader.

Speaking of whom, I agree with this WaPo article calling for the US to push for Hamas disarming. This is the first article I've seen that explains the tunnels purposes explicitly. I've heard other people commenting on how they were for smuggling everyday items past the blockade like food and supplies. Not so in the case of many of them:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...2d1d9e-1284-11e4-8936-26932bcfd6ed_story.html

Hamas’s offensive tunnels should not be confused with the burrows it has dug under Gaza’s border with Egypt to smuggle money, consumer goods and military equipment. The newly discovered structures have only one conceivable purpose: to launch attacks inside Israel. Three times in recent days, Hamas fighters emerged from the tunnels in the vicinity of Israeli civilian communities, which they clearly aimed to attack. The ­concrete-lined structures are stocked with materials, such as handcuffs and tranquilizers, that could be used on hostages. Other tunnels in northern Gaza are designed for the storage and firing of missiles at Israeli cities.
 
Amnesty International on Hamas using Human Shields

http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/a...41-4751-9cbc-a0465f6433c3/mde150172014en.html

Amnesty International is aware of these claims, and continues to monitor and investigate reports, but does not have evidence at this point that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to “shield” specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks. As explained above, in previous conflicts Amnesty International has documented that Palestinian armed groups have stored munitions in and fired indiscriminate rockets from residential areas in the Gaza Strip, and available evidence indicates that they continue to do both during the current hostilities, in violation of international humanitarian law. During the current hostilities, Hamas spokespeople have reportedly urged residents in some areas of the Gaza Strip not to leave their homes after the Israeli military dropped leaflets and made phone calls warning people in the area to evacuate. However, in light of the lack of clarity in many of the Israeli warnings on safe routes for civilians to evacuate, the lack of shelters or other safe places in the Gaza Strip for them to go to, and numerous reports of civilians who did heed the warnings and flee doing so under Israeli fire, such statements by Hamas officials could have been motivated by a desire to avoid further panic. In any case, public statements referring to entire areas are not the same as directing specific civilians to remain in their homes as “human shields” for fighters, munitions, or military equipment. Furthermore, international humanitarian law is clear that even if officials or fighters from Hamas or Palestinian armed groups associated with other factions did in fact direct civilians to remain in a specific location in order to shield military objectives from attacks, all of Israel’s obligations to protect these civilians would still apply.
 
Not what I saw. He asked him a lot of tough questions and Regev answered them. I thought it was a good interview, he was right up front about it. I'd like to see a similar one with a Hamas leader.

Speaking of whom, I agree with this WaPo article calling for the US to push for Hamas disarming. This is the first article I've seen that explains the tunnels purposes explicitly. I've heard other people commenting on how they were for smuggling everyday items past the blockade like food and supplies. Not so in the case of many of them:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...2d1d9e-1284-11e4-8936-26932bcfd6ed_story.html

The american public has no stomach for this, but if we want to move forward towards true peace, we are going to have to involve our troops. I could see Israel agreeing to end to the blockade if the US were willing to monitor imports into Gaza to ensure that Palestinians get access to the world market and that Hamas does not get weapons.
 

Thanks for posting this. The more objective parties evaluating this situation the better.

The combination of these policies, actions and means of military and administrative control and the dependency fostered by over four decades of occupation enable Israel – even without a permanent military presence – to exercise effective control over the Gaza Strip. It thus remains the occupying power in Gaza and continues to be bound by the law of occupation, particularly as regards the powers it continues to exercise.

This means that Israel’s actions in the Gaza Strip must be governed by the Law of Occupation, as well as the rules of international humanitarian law on the conduct of hostilities and international human rights law. The inhabitants of an occupied territory are entitled to special protection and humane treatment. Among other things, the rules prohibit the occupying power from wilfully killing, ill-treating or deporting protected persons. The occupying power is responsible for the welfare of the population under its control. This means it must ensure that law and order is maintained and basic necessities of the population are provided for.

Israel has chosen not to fulfil many of its positive obligations as an occupying power. But this does not negate the existence of these obligations. At the very least, it is incumbent upon Israel not to actively obstruct relief for the civilian population of Gaza. Its military blockade, which has continued for over seven years, and goes well beyond reasonable security measures, is contrary to its obligations as an occupying power and constitutes collective punishment.

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We have yet to see ANY evidence that Hamas killed these teenagers. And with evidence I mean results from investigations and research, not just the word of the IDF.
 
Nothing, at most it could have been carried out by a known Palestinian crime family (this is conjecture, I think theree is some slight circumstantial evidence that points to this), but they are not a part of Hamas and do not collaborate with them.

The Israeli authorities claim that Hamas and Palestinian armed groups use Palestinian civilians in Gaza as “human shields”. Does Amnesty International have any evidence that this has occurred during the current hostilities, and what obligations of Israeli forces and Palestinian armed groups are relevant?
Amnesty International is aware of these claims, and continues to monitor and investigate reports, but does not have evidence at this point that Palestinian civilians have been intentionally used by Hamas or Palestinian armed groups during the current hostilities to “shield” specific locations or military personnel or equipment from Israeli attacks. As explained above, in previous conflicts Amnesty International has documented that Palestinian armed groups have stored munitions in and fired indiscriminate rockets from residential areas in the Gaza Strip, and available evidence indicates that they continue to do both during the current hostilities, in violation of international humanitarian law. During the current hostilities, Hamas spokespeople have reportedly urged residents in some areas of the Gaza Strip not to leave their homes after the Israeli military dropped leaflets and made phone calls warning people in the area to evacuate. However, in light of the lack of clarity in many of the Israeli warnings on safe routes for civilians to evacuate, the lack of shelters or other safe places in the Gaza Strip for them to go to, and numerous reports of civilians who did heed the warnings and flee doing so under Israeli fire, such statements by Hamas officials could have been motivated by a desire to avoid further panic. In any case, public statements referring to entire areas are not the same as directing specific civilians to remain in their homes as “human shields” for fighters, munitions, or military equipment. Furthermore, international humanitarian law is clear that even if officials or fighters from Hamas or Palestinian armed groups associated with other factions did in fact direct civilians to remain in a specific location in order to shield military objectives from attacks, all of Israel’s obligations to protect these civilians would still apply.

Seeing as that video that alleges that Hamas uses human shields originated from an IDF propaganda site, I am a little skeptical of it, interesting that Amnesty international can still find no proof of it (didn't the head of one of the hospitals say the same thing?)

Not what I saw. He asked him a lot of tough questions and Regev answered them. I thought it was a good interview, he was right up front about it. I'd like to see a similar one with a Hamas leader.

Speaking of whom, I agree with this WaPo article calling for the US to push for Hamas disarming. This is the first article I've seen that explains the tunnels purposes explicitly. I've heard other people commenting on how they were for smuggling everyday items past the blockade like food and supplies. Not so in the case of many of them:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...2d1d9e-1284-11e4-8936-26932bcfd6ed_story.html

I am going to reserve judgement on that (the validity of the Washington Post article) for the moment, considering that Egypt killed the Hamas <-> Egypt trade and smuggling operations dead. You have to get things in from somewhere.
 
The american public has no stomach for this, but if we want to move forward towards true peace, we are going to have to involve our troops. I could see Israel agreeing to end to the blockade if the US were willing to monitor imports into Gaza to ensure that Palestinians get access to the world market and that Hamas does not get weapons.

I don't see how the US taking over siege responsibility from its client state would move anything forward toward peace.
 
So they're both cunts...i think that's pretty clear.

Question for those who say "ask yourself why gaza is firing rockets"...

What if the death tolls were equal on both sides? Does your opinion change?

They aren't though, due to the massive mismatch in power between Palestine and the aggressor in this, Israel. Hamas' offensive against them is the equivalent of saying 'fuck you' to someone before they stamp on your head.
 
So they're both cunts...i think that's pretty clear.

Question for those who say "ask yourself why gaza is firing rockets"...

What if the death tolls were equal on both sides? Does your opinion change?

Sure, but Palestinians firing rockets is effectively symbolic.
 
They are also effective at costing Israel money. Those Iron Dome missiles aren't free.

Obama's credit card will cover the cost. Don't you worry.

EDIT: Though it is definitely having an impact on tourism, especially with the flight restrictions that were temporally in place.
 
Everyone critisized Hamas for rejecting a cease fire. What now?

Tbh, if I was Hamas, I wouldn't give two shits what any country who abstained or voted against seeing if Israel respects international law said.

I can't blame them for not accepting a ceasefire without conditions. Otherwise this will just repeat itself in a year or two and the Palestinians would have been squeezed even more and carry on living with the crazy living conditions imposed on them.

At least now they are under international scrutiny somewhat. Who knows what the narrative would be like later.
 
So remember yesterday when Israel called Brazil a diplomatic dwarf and irrelevant for pulling their Ambassador out of Israel?

Well now Israel went one step further to the point of no return

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ion-and-calls-the-country-a-diplomatic-dwarf/

"Israel's response is perfectly proportioned in accordance with international law," Palmor said in an interview with the Jornal Nacional TV show late Thursday. "This is not football. In football, when a game ends in a draw, you think it is proportional, but when it finishes 7-1 it's disproportionate. Sorry to say, but not so in real life and under international law."
 
So remember yesterday when Israel called Brazil a diplomatic dwarf and irrelevant for pulling their Ambassador out of Israel?

Well now Israel went one step further to the point of no return

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ion-and-calls-the-country-a-diplomatic-dwarf/

BBC is also reporting it.

Gaza conflict: Israel rejects John Kerry ceasefire
http://m.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28494081

Guys, i think something broke inside israel govment.....
 
So is it just me, or has anyone else noticed MSNBC being a bit more critical of Israel (or at least, they aren't going out of their way to make excuses for them as much) and having a few more guests to explain the Palestinian position since the Rula Jebreal controversy? Still far from balanced coverage, but it does seem to have improved a bit. Maybe they were starting to feel some public pressure?
 
They aren't though, due to the massive mismatch in power between Palestine and the aggressor in this, Israel. Hamas' offensive against them is the equivalent of saying 'fuck you' to someone before they stamp on your head.

Only if the 'fuck you' has the potential to kill. There should be no excuses for indiscriminately shooting rockets towards civilian areas, just as there should be no excuse for what Israel is doing. Both are terrible acts, it just so happens that Israel has the stronger firepower thus the upper hand, which is why it is within their power to stop this nonsense.
 
Only if the 'fuck you' has the potential to kill. There should be no excuses for indiscriminately shooting rockets towards civilian areas, just as there should be no excuse for what Israel is doing. Both are terrible acts, it just so happens that Israel has the stronger firepower thus the upper hand, which is why it is within their power to stop this nonsense.

I'm pretty sure they are purposefully bombing civilian area's now.
 
It's going to hilarious as hell if the iDF releases a statement that says the police representative statement is a lie.
 
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