Man shoots and kills intruder. Police determine she was not pregnant.

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Dont want to get shot? Dont fukin rob the guys house, its not like he shot without reason

I think people should get punished even if they shoot burglars in the middle of their act, even more so when they're already running away.
You don't shoot people unless your own life is in danger and there is no other option and even then you should try to hit them somewhere not fatal and if you're not able to do that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun.
Shooting people because of some stuff is wrong and should be a crime, not matter the circumstances.
 
I think people should get punished even if they shoot burglars in the middle of their act, even more so when they're already running away.
You don't shoot people unless your own life is in danger and there is no other option and even then you should try to hit them somewhere not fatal and if you're not able to do that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun.
Shooting people because of some stuff is wrong and should be a crime, not matter the circumstances.

When someone enters your house to steal and you are in there, your life is in danger.
 
I agree on no one is innocent. It didn't happen but it very well could have happened that they could have killed him and took off. I'm sure he begged also until he got ahold of his gun. They only showed remorse after they were In to deep.

Sure. They could have.

But they didn't and there's no use looking at hypotheticals and if's. He decided to show no remorse for someone begging for their life. I'm not saying this wasn't a shitty situation for him but whne you decide to murder someone when they are begging for their life, you are not a stable person.

We have the law for a reason. Or else where do we start saying when vigilant justice is acceptable or not? If someone assaults you can you pursue and murder them?
 
I think people should get punished even if they shoot burglars in the middle of their act, even more so when they're already running away.
You don't shoot people unless your own life is in danger and there is no other option and even then you should try to hit them somewhere not fatal and if you're not able to do that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun.
Shooting people because of some stuff is wrong and should be a crime, not matter the circumstances.

This is all kinds of asinine. So am I supposed to ask a burglar... "Excuse me sir, you don't happen to have a weapon that can possibly kill me, do you?"

Some of you guys are hilariously naïve.
 
Sure. They could have.

But they didn't and there's no use looking at hypotheticals and if's. He decided to show no remorse for someone begging for their life. I'm not saying this wasn't a shitty situation for him but whne you decide to murder someone when they are begging for their life, you are not a stable person.

We have the law for a reason. Or else where do we start saying when vigilant justice is acceptable or not? If someone assaults you can you pursue and murder them?
Wazzy I'm not disagreeing I simply asking what remorse did they show him as they beat him and robbed him up until he got his gun out and they ran?
 
I agree no one is. My point was merely the begging factor being used by the girl and the old man not caring . Did they have any remorse over their action. Obviously not.

What does that have to do with his own lack of mercy? Unless you are arguing that he was so enraged that he lost control, I don't see how getting robbed and beat up (horrible crimes, by the way) makes it absolutely okay to shoot an unarmed person in the back as they flee and beg for their life.

goldenpp72 said:
I'm willing to bet a lot of people in here think they could talk a serial killer into becoming a soup kitchen volunteer while he has a gun to their head. It comes off like these people have never been in a situation where their life/home/family is in danger, no one thinks rationally during these moments.

I'm willing to bet this is bullshit. I have no problem with using deadly force to defend my life and that of other innocent people, but absent such an imminent threat I don't think it's justified to shoot someone in the back. Call me crazy/a pussy all you want.
 
I think people should get punished even if they shoot burglars in the middle of their act, even more so when they're already running away.
You don't shoot people unless your own life is in danger and there is no other option and even then you should try to hit them somewhere not fatal and if you're not able to do that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun.
Shooting people because of some stuff is wrong and should be a crime, not matter the circumstances.

Such a weird look on the real life. So if a burglar enters your home, you'll just politely stand aside and ask them to leave?

I think the man was in the clear. He's a frail old man, and got robbed 3 times and also assaulted. There's a fine line of shit one can take before taking meassures. There's also a big chance of them escaping the police since he has to call them first, so who is really to say that he felt his life wasn't in danger? This was the third time. It might've been the same persons everytime or he believed it to be so. He might've feared that they would come back since they didn't get anything and they know he's old. I do not blame him and I hope he doesn't get charged. That woman that died chose her own fate.
 
What does that have to do with his own lack of mercy? Unless you are arguing that he was so enraged that he lost control, I don't see how getting robbed and beat up (horrible crimes, by the way) makes it absolutely okay to shoot an unarmed person in the back as they flee and beg for their life.



I'm willing to bet this is bullshit. I have no problem with using deadly force to defend my life and that of other innocent people, but absent such an imminent threat I don't think it's justified to shoot someone in the back. Call me crazy/a pussy all you want.
I just wonder how much mercy they would have showed him had he not gotten his gun .
 
I think people should get punished even if they shoot burglars in the middle of their act, even more so when they're already running away.
You don't shoot people unless your own life is in danger and there is no other option and even then you should try to hit them somewhere not fatal and if you're not able to do that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun.
Shooting people because of some stuff is wrong and should be a crime, not matter the circumstances.

Ya, I agree. And if the burglar has a weapon, you should shoot it out of his hand like in the movies instead of killing them.
 
He committed murder. The only thing that matters is that not only were they not posing a threat, but regardless of whether she was lying or not about the pregnancy. he was showing callous disregard by shooting her. His statement also indicates that he was preying upon her for her weakness.
 
What does that have to do with his own lack of mercy? Unless you are arguing that he was so enraged that he lost control, I don't see how getting robbed and beat up (horrible crimes, by the way) makes it absolutely okay to shoot an unarmed person in the back as they flee and beg for their life.



I'm willing to bet this is bullshit. I have no problem with using deadly force to defend my life and that of other innocent people, but absent such an imminent threat I don't think it's justified to shoot someone in the back. Call me crazy/a pussy all you want.

This is such crap, if someone who isn't meant to be in your house is robbing you, and you have the chance to take them out (possibly before they even know you have them in your sight) what do you do? Yell and say 'hey man, I got this gun here, do you have a gun? If so, we're gonna have a shoot out right now, or you can run away, ok?' Usually them just hearing a movement is enough to cause them to react, let alone have a chit chat of fairness tactics.

Thinking of my own home, I live up stairs most of the time. If someone is coming up my stairs and I have a chance to shoot them at an ideal vantage point, i'm taking it. I'm not going to ask 20 questions to determine the threat level and intent, they forfeit their life the moment they come into my home BECAUSE I have no way of knowing what their desire is for sure without alerting them. If they are already alerted, I guarantee you they won't stand around for me to ask questions, if i'm lucky, they might run, but otherwise they may come after me or worse, my fiancee, and I'll do my best to stop that from even being a possibility.

I hope to never have to deal with a home intruder in my adulthood, hopefully a decent security system and other elements will be a natural deterrent and I can live a nice peaceful life until I die, but if someone is in my home and they shouldn't be, i'm going to assume the worst and react accordingly. Know a good way to avoid dying? Stay the hell out of peoples houses unless invited, it really is that simple. For people to get in your home requires (usually) forceful entry, as far as i'm concerned anyone willing to go that far is likely to do something even dumber when confronted by the owner.
 
I don't condone what the man did, shooting someone that's fleeing is WRONG and not self defense.

But I really don't understand why it matters if she was pregnant or not in that situation, if I was going to shoot someone and the person told me "I'm pregnant", that wouldn't change my mind at all. The one that got the baby in the dangerous situation is her, not me.

I'm not pro gun and I'm never going to buy one so hopefully I will never be in such a situation.
 
Justifiably so it sounds, how much valuable shit does this guy keep lying around? I'd rob him too.

My dad's car got broken into. All they took was spare change.

People will steal anything as long as it's easy and they can get away with it. Why wouldn't they rob an old man living by himself?
 
This is such crap, if someone who isn't meant to be in your house is robbing you, and you have the chance to take them out (possibly before they even know you have them in your sight) what do you do? Yell and say 'hey man, I got this gun here, do you have a gun? If so, we're gonna have a shoot out right now, or you can run away, ok?' Usually them just hearing a movement is enough to cause them to react, let alone have a chit chat of fairness tactics.

Thinking of my own home, I live up stairs most of the time. If someone is coming up my stairs and I have a chance to shoot them at an ideal vantage point, i'm taking it. I'm not going to ask 20 questions to determine the threat level and intent, they forfeit their life the moment they come into my home BECAUSE I have no way of knowing what their desire is for sure without alerting them. If they are already alerted, I guarantee you they won't stand around for me to ask questions, if i'm lucky, they might run, but otherwise they may come after me or worse, my fiancee, and I'll do my best to stop that from even being a possibility.

I hope to never have to deal with a home intruder in my adulthood, hopefully a decent security system and other elements will be a natural deterrent and I can live a nice peaceful life until I die, but if someone is in my home and they shouldn't be, i'm going to assume the worst and react accordingly. Know a good way to avoid dying? Stay the hell out of peoples houses unless invited, it really is that simple. For people to get in your home requires (usually) forceful entry, as far as i'm concerned anyone willing to go that far is likely to do something even dumber when confronted by the owner.

Nobody's talking about engaging in a duel here. I'm not sure where you got that from. If I stumble upon an unknown intruder in my home in the middle of the night and I sense that my life is in danger, I'm going to defend myself, and if the person dies as a result, well, that's self-defense. However, the moment I no longer fear for my life, the use of deadly force ceases to be self-defense -- it becomes murder at that point, unless there is some other mitigating circumstance.

That's what I feel happened here. At the time the incident took place, I don't think the woman posed a threat to the shooter. These are two different scenarios and I think it's disingenuous to treat them as if they were the same.

Edit: I honestly find it disturbing this idea of "forfeiting" one's life. For example, what if the woman, instead of running away, dropped to her knees and surrendered -- could he still have shot her in the back at that point? She's a burglar, after all. She forfeited her life the moment he entered his home.
 
I think people should get punished even if they shoot burglars in the middle of their act, even more so when they're already running away.
You don't shoot people unless your own life is in danger and there is no other option and even then you should try to hit them somewhere not fatal and if you're not able to do that you shouldn't be allowed to carry a gun.
Shooting people because of some stuff is wrong and should be a crime, not matter the circumstances.

You're in my house. How do I know it you have a weapon? I should wait and let you grab your gun or knife and get into a fair fight after you made the decision to break in and still stuff I worked hard for?
 
No. People shoot unarmed home invaders all the time. This one was only notable due to the pregnancy.

My thoughts exactly.

The pregnant lady who wasnt really pregnant gets the sympathy spin.

Some random minority male would just get a press clipping. Might not even be big enough news to reach Gaf.

Sad, but true.
 
My thoughts exactly.

The pregnant lady who wasnt really pregnant gets the sympathy spin.

Some random minority male would just get a press clipping. Might not even be big enough news to reach Gaf.

Sad, but true.

Can you read?

No one sympathizes with the lady. We all just think someone who can pursue and murder someone begging for their life is messed up.
 
Nobody's talking about engaging in a duel here. I'm not sure where you got that from. If I stumble upon an unknown intruder in my home in the middle of the night and I sense that my life is in danger, I'm going to defend myself, and if the person dies as a result, well, that's self-defense. However, the moment I no longer fear for my life, the use of deadly force ceases to be self-defense -- it becomes murder at that point, unless there is some other mitigating circumstance.

That's what I feel happened here. At the time the incident took place, I don't think the woman posed a threat to the shooter. These are two different scenarios and I think it's disingenuous to treat them as if they were the same.

Edit: I honestly find it disturbing this idea of "forfeiting" one's life. For example, what if the woman, instead of running away, dropped to her knees and surrendered -- could he still have shot her in the back at that point? She's a burglar, after all. She forfeited her life the moment he entered his home.

If she puts herself in a position where I can tie her down and call the cops to have her arrested, then I would not shoot her. Being that she was trying to escape I would be assuming they plan to return and possibly with intent to kill, considering it seems like they did return two times as it was, that's not such a far fetched idea.
 
Because it's irrelevant if she's not a clear immediate threat.

Revenge killing is not legal or just.

This is a tad ridiculous. Are you saying he wasn't scared for his life at all? He thinks this was self dense. He's wrong and might be charged but is it REALLY that much of a stretch? Everyone in this thread is making him to be some sort of human hunter just because of his cold attitude.
 
Can you read?

No one sympathizes with the lady. We all just think someone who can pursue and murder someone begging for their life is messed up.
Begging is being on your knees standing still...running away after breaking someone collar bone and saying random things to try to not get shot isn't begging.
 
Begging is being on your knees standing still...running away after breaking someone collar bone and saying random things to try to not get shot isn't begging.

"Don't shoot me I'm pregnant" is begging. Not only that but he shot her twice.

And no begging does not mean you have to be on your knees.
 
Lol I wonder what will be the reaction of those who said shame on the old man for killing her.

To begin she had it coming when she pummeled the old man and good on police for charging her accomplice with murder.
 
Lol I wonder what will be the reaction of those who said shame on the old man for killing her.

To begin she had it coming when she pummeled the old man and good on police for charging her accomplice with murder.

I don't think he should have killed her in the ideal situation, but having been a victim before...it kind of fucks you up.
 
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