Support NeoGAF

[Kettch]

The reason why I focus on this issue over similar atrocities elsewhere, is because my country is directly supporting it.

 

[JordanN]

How about you show the part where you think it is in the US interest instead of just spewing insults and links.

Israel and the U.S have a joint military program. The mossad tips off CIA officials with very valuable information. The U.S has some of their businesses there (Intel comes to mind). You can't judge the situation in such a small fashion.

I'm pretty sure Israel left the Sinai under the watchful guidance of the U.S (where they saw Soviet interests with Egypt as a threat).

Also, stop the false accusation. I never made any insults here.

 

[zer0blivion]

The reason why I focus on this issue over similar atrocities elsewhere, is because my country is directly supporting it.

Canada is complicit too.

 

[pgtl_10]

I think Israel's lobby in many ways hurt Israel. Back in the day Israel looked very good and the Arab side of the story was nonexistent. Books like the Exodus gave Israel a lot of attention. Now people are starting to look deeper and Israel no longer likes it. That's the price of wanting attention in the first place.

 

[Chumly]

It's still kind of hypocritical how much focus this whole issue has been getting for decades when you look at what is happening in Africa. Religious and racial hypocrisy.

What are you talking about? Your comment makes absolutely no sense.

 

[Dude Abides]

It's still kind of hypocritical how much focus this whole issue has been getting for decades when you look at what is happening in Africa. Religious and racial hypocrisy.

Then make a thread about what's happening in Africa instead of whining in this one.

 

[pgtl_10]

Israel gets a lot of attention but gets far less punishment. NATO attacked Yugoslavia for Kosovo and attacked Libya. Syria has been slammed and Iraq was forced out of Kuwait. Sudan has left South Sudan.

With Israel there is always an excuse that never applies to other incidents.

 

[RageBot]

No Israeli attacks that harm civilians, huh.

Hmm, didn't know about that.
Considering that the article talks about exactly after the kidnapping, I do think that trying to find the kidnappers by somewhat violent ways is justified, except for demolishing houses, I think that is a cruel, pointless thing to do that will only create more antagonizm among the innocent.
However, maybe I didn't make myself clear, but my post was in respone to someone saying that the IDF will just kill people in Gaza if they stopped fighting, and as you can see, civilians don't die in the west bank (as far as I know, and i'll gladly be corrected).

CNN camera catches Israeli soldier who fired at killed Palestinian
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-o29CJRZEf4

You were saying?

afaik, the person who shot in this case wasn't officialy an infantry, but someone who was in some support position who happened to be there, and shot without permission, if I remember he has been judged by doing so, because afair he did it "because he wanted to see some action".
When I said "israeli attacks" I didn't mean "attacks by an Israeli person" but "attacks officialy made by the state of Israel", just like when Hamas shoots rockets at Israel, it isn't "palestinian attacks", even if the people who shoot them are Palestinian.

If you got more cases of killed civilians, or damage done to civilians in the west bank, please post them, i want to understand better what is happening in the west bank, since (as you probably realized) I don't understand enough about what's going there.

 

[Ether_Snake]

So because people haven't protested against other atrocities (and they have) they're not allowed to protest against this one?

No, hypocrisy would be calling them out for not protesting everything, something that nobody is capable of

I'm talking about the media, the UN, and governments, not Gaffers.

 

[Dead Man]

I'm talking about the media, the UN, and governments, not Gaffers.

The UN that routinely issues statements and reports about atrocities and other issues in Africa and elsewhere? The media that tells a very pro Israel story?

 

[Ether_Snake]

The UN that routinely issues statements and reports about atrocities and other issues in Africa and elsewhere? The media that tells a very pro Israel story?

Statements and reports, it doesn't try to get world governments to steadily get involved in helping out, nor does it bring them to task for corporate activities in Africa that are hurting the population. The media? Yes, the media doesn't pay enough attention to what is happening in Africa.

 

[neurosisxeno]

Statements and reports, it doesn't try to get world governments to steadily get involved in helping out, nor does it bring them to task for corporate activities in Africa that are hurting the population. The media? Yes, the media doesn't pay enough attention to what is happening in Africa.

It's completely unrelated to this conflict. But if the Western world wanted to help Africa they would stop dumping millions of dollars in free supplies off to local warlords, and allow countries to build actual economies that aren't slanted so heavily.

 

[zer0blivion]

afaik, the person who shot in this case wasn't officialy an infantry, but someone who was in some support position who happened to be there, and shot without permission.

That doesn't make him or the person who makes excuses for him any less of a piece of human garbage.

 

[TheStruggler]

i remember someone stating that the UN doesnt acknowledge Hamas as being a terrorist group, or recognised as one, is there a link that supports this

 

[StickSoldier]

Ugh, this is never going to end. What would be the easiest way for them to have peace? Is there any way possible for them to have true peace with each other? Killing will never solve the problem, it'll just continue to breed hatred for another.

 

[maharg]

Israel and the U.S have a joint military program. The mossad tips off CIA officials with very valuable information. The U.S has some of their businesses there (Intel comes to mind). You can't judge the situation in such a small fashion.

I'm pretty sure Israel left the Sinai under the watchful guidance of the U.S (where they saw Soviet interests with Egypt as a threat).

Also, stop the false accusation. I never made any insults here.

Are you saying that getting tips from the Mossad is somehow worth a half century long occupation of millions of people? That's some pretty harsh moral calculus right there. They better be getting tips on the order of supervillains trying to destroy the universe.

 

[Betty]

Well the truce is off as Hamas continued to fire missiles into Israel and the offensive is once again back on.

BBC news link. Here we go again?

 

[Yrael]

God...this is just brutal.

 

[maharg]

Is this another thing where the IDF says Hamas broke a ceasefire they never agreed to?

This seems to be a pattern. I'm sure Israel would love to have an endless 'humanitarian ceasefire' that doesn't require them to change anything they're doing. If this is, as they keep insisting, a war (and not an incredibly abusive occupation), though the other side may have something to say about how reasonable that is.

 

[JordanN]

Edit:An Israeli soldier has died during humanitarian truce

Is this another thing where the IDF says Hamas broke a ceasefire they never agreed to?

Are you advocating countries being attacked after they put their weapons down? They really should stop firing on Israel.

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

Hamas and Israel are role playing for the greater good $$$$$

 

[maharg]

An Israeli soldier has died after observing humanitarian truce


Are you advocating countries being attacked after they put their weapons down?

You say this like Israel was waving a white flag and surrendering or something. A ceasefire was proposed and rejected, why did they put their weapons down to begin with?

 

[Dead Man]

An Israeli soldier has died after observing humanitarian truce


Are you advocating countries being attacked after they put their weapons down? They really should stop firing on Israel.

So after the expiration of the ceasefire?

 

[unpopularblargh]

Are you saying that getting tips from the Mossad is somehow worth a half century long occupation of millions of people? That's some pretty harsh moral calculus right there. They better be getting tips on the order of supervillains trying to destroy the universe.

The quickest way would be for Israel to lift the blockade, dismantle the settlements and agree to 1967 borders. Simple. Still not going to happen though unless the U.S. or a collection of major first-world nations put pressure on Israel.

 

[jakonovski]

This time I feel truces are meaningless, the relevant question is how many thousands Israel can kill until the world does something. I fear that genocidal proportions are needed.

 

[tafer]

This time I feel truces are meaningless, the relevant question is how many thousands Israel can kill until the world does something. I fear that genocidal proportions are needed.

I fear that not even a genocide would be enough. You know, it's not like not too long ago the world didn't do anything to stop a genocide since it wasn't convenient/didn't give a shit.

 

[kobashi100]

Well the truce is off as Hamas continued to fire missiles into Israel and the offensive is once again back on.

BBC news link. Here we go again?

rumors that The Qassam Brigades never agreed to any ceasefire, even if Hamas did.

If the Arab League wasn't a corrupt mess, this would be an ideal role for them.

The Arab League and the OIC are nothing but a joke.

They should have mobilized their armies weeks ago

 

[MacNille]

rumors that The Qassam Brigades never agreed to any ceasefire, even if Hamas did.



The Arab League and the OIC are nothing but a joke.

They should have mobilized their armies weeks ago

Do you want to know what would happened if the Arabic league attacked Israel?
Israel would kick their ass so hard.

 

[unpopularblargh]

This is a bit old but I thought was a relevant column in The Toronto Star from a couple months ago by Tony Burman (former head of CBC and Al-Jazeera English):

http://www.thestar.com/news/world/2...rys_right_on_israel_and_apartheid_burman.html

In 2007, then-Israeli prime minister Ehud Olmert warned that “if the day comes when the two-state solution collapses, and we face a South African-style struggle for equal voting rights . . . the State of Israel is finished.” In 2010, former prime minister Ehud Barak said: “The simple truth is, if there is one state . . . if this bloc of millions of Palestinians cannot vote, that will be an apartheid state.” Last year, Justice Minister Tzipi Livni warned that, without a two-state solution, Israel could turn into an “apartheid state.”

It is obvious that the driving assumption of the Netanyahu government has been that the world will eventually tire of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict and that Israel’s importance — at least to a compliant West — as a pivotal strategic partner in the region will let it keep expanding its “facts on the ground.” Hence, the unrelenting construction of illegal Israeli settlements.

That part does remind me of South Africa. When I started visiting that country in the mid-1980s with the CBC, at the height of apartheid and during its “state of emergency,” I remember that South Africa too felt impervious to international interference.

After all, with the Cold War also at its height, South Africa was seen by the West as Africa’s bulwark against the spread of communism. Nelson Mandela was invisible and in jail. And the leaders of Britain and the United States in particular — Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan — were completely indifferent to the scourge of apartheid, and to whether Mandela died in jail.

But then something changed. As the popular resistance to apartheid increased within South Africa, popular international resistance against South Africa began to mobilize. Appalled at the growing violence of the South African regime, a coalition of unions, churches, civic groups and individual companies — many of them Canadian — pressured governments to isolate South Africa and ultimately bring down the regime.

In February 1990, just after Nelson Mandela was released from a South African prison, I was part of the CBC team with Barbara Frum as he gave one of his first interviews. Before it began, he kept quizzing us on where we had been. I told him that I had just come back from what I described as “a conflict even more intractable” than South Africa. In Israel and the occupied territories, I was covering the first Palestinian “intifada,” or uprising against Israeli rule.

Mandela gently replied: “They will learn, just as we are learning here in South Africa, that all conflicts must come to an end. The only question is ‘how.’”

 

[LNBL]

Hmm, didn't know about that.
Considering that the article talks about exactly after the kidnapping, I do think that trying to find the kidnappers by somewhat violent ways is justified, except for demolishing houses, I think that is a cruel, pointless thing to do that will only create more antagonizm among the innocent.
However, maybe I didn't make myself clear, but my post was in respone to someone saying that the IDF will just kill people in Gaza if they stopped fighting, and as you can see, civilians don't die in the west bank (as far as I know, and i'll gladly be corrected).

The number of Palestinian deaths in the Westbank in 2013 was triple the number of that in 2012, I can only see the number rising in 2014 as it has been rising every year.

The incidents that resulted in fatalities in the West Bank include the following instances:

In nine incidents, Israeli security forces entered Palestinian communities for the purpose of what the military calls arrest operations: In four of these incidents, soldiers fired shots when stones were thrown at them; another four incidents involved exchanges of fire; regarding the last incident the Israeli military maintains that there were exchanges of fire, but B’Tselem has been unable to verify this information.
In three incidents, soldiers fired while lying in wait to capture stone-throwers.
In four incidents, soldiers discharged lethal gunfire when Palestinians were throwing stones.
Five incidents occurred under other kinds of conditions: one man was shot when he tried to enter Israel without carrying a legal entry permit; one woman passerby was shot by the military who argued that a Molotov cocktail had been lobbed in the area; one man was shot when he broke into a military base with a tractor; and one man was shot after allegedly assaulting a Border Police officer.
Of the Gaza residents killed: four were taking part in the hostilities when they were killed; three were not; regarding one, it is unknown whether or not he was taking part in the hostilities; and one was killed in a targeted assassination.

In addition, two Palestinians were killed in Israel this year, one a resident of the West Bank and the other of the Gaza Strip.

In contrast, in 2012, Israeli security forces killed 8 Palestinians in the West Bank and 246 in the Gaza Strip (including 167 during Operation Pillar of Defense), of whom 104 who were not taking part in the hostilities.

Investigations of killings

Two years and eight months have passed since the new investigative policy of the MAG Corps went into effect. In that time 35 Palestinians were killed by soldiers in 28 separate incidents. The Military Police Investigation Unit (MPIU) launched an investigation of 23 of the fatalities which occurred in 19 incidents.

To date, the MAG Corps has made a decision regarding only five of all incidents:

In one case a decision was made not to launch an investigation.
In three cases the investigative file was closed without adopting any measures against the individuals involved: In one case B’Tselem appealed the decision to close the file and in another B’Tselem is currently waiting to receive the material in the investigation file.
In another incident a soldier was indicted and then convicted by plea bargain based on his admission. The MAG Corps has yet to tender its decision regarding 21 cases:
Eleven cases are still under investigation or awaiting additional investigative material.
In four cases the MPIU investigation was completed. The file was sent to the MAG Corps and is awaiting its decision on the matter.
In six cases the MAG Corps has yet to decide whether to launch an investigation. Regarding five of these cases, the MAG Corps justified its position in that the person or persons killed do not meet the definition of “a civilian uninvolved in fighting”. In the sixth case, B’Tselem was informed that a “limited investigation” – the meaning of which is unknown to B’Tselem – was launched.

http://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20131230_2013_fatalities_statistics

No, the Westbank is everything but peaceful

 

[MisterFalcon]

The number of Palestinian deaths in the Westbank in 2013 was triple the number of that in 2012, I can only see the number rising in 2014 as it has been rising every year.





http://www.btselem.org/press_releases/20131230_2013_fatalities_statistics

2009: 17
2010: 12
2011: 10
2012: 8
2013: 27
2014 until May: 10

Rising every year ?

 

[DXB-KNIGHT]

#ICC4Israel on twitter is trending

 

[kobashi100]

Do you want to know what would happened if the Arabic league attacked Israel?
Israel would kick their ass so hard.

include the OIC countries and thats just pure air talk. you saying an army like this couldnt fight against Israel.

Egypt, Turkey, Iran and Pakistan combined.

over 185,000,000 fit for service soldiers

Total air power is 7,000+

1100+ fighters/interceptors

1100+ transport aircraft

1000+ helicopters

140 attack helicopters

1450+ naval power

40+ frigates

50+ submarines

522,000 total land craft

32,000 armored fighting vehicles.

9000 towered artillery

2600 self propelled guns

14,000 tanks

3100 launch rocket systems

the men and weaponry is clearly there. The regimes instead are Israels first line of defence!

 

[Betty]

the men and weaponry is clearly there. The regimes instead are Israels first line of defence!

Israel has already won several wars where multiple Arab nations partnered up to to try and beat them and were vastly outnumbered when it came to ground troops, Tanks, Air vehicles, etc.

 

[neurosisxeno]

the men and weaponry is clearly there. The regimes instead are Israels first line of defence!

If I recall correctly Egypt had manpower on their side, and Israel absolutely crushed them in the Six-Day War.

 

[-Plasma Reus-]

#ICC4Israel on twitter is trending

A million tweets already? Wow.

 

[MacNille]

include the OIC countries and thats just pure air talk. you saying an army like this couldnt fight against Israel.

Egypt, Turkey, Iran and Pakistan combined.

over 185,000,000 fit for service soldiers

Total air power is 7,000+

1100+ fighters/interceptors

1100+ transport aircraft

1000+ helicopters

140 attack helicopters

1450+ naval power

40+ frigates

50+ submarines

522,000 total land craft

32,000 armored fighting vehicles.

9000 towered artillery

2600 self propelled guns

14,000 tanks

3100 launch rocket systems

the men and weaponry is clearly there. The regimes instead are Israels first line of defence!

How well trained are the soldiers? How good are the officers? How are their tactics? Strategics? And Israel has something that the Arabic states doesn't have: MOTHERFUCKING NUKES! If Israel know that everything is lost, they will turn everything in the middle east into a crater. And if they feel betrayed by the rest of the world, they will nuke the rest as the last FUCK you to the world.

 

[Dead Man]

include the OIC countries and thats just pure air talk. you saying an army like this couldnt fight against Israel.

Egypt, Turkey, Iran and Pakistan combined.

over 185,000,000 fit for service soldiers

Total air power is 7,000+

1100+ fighters/interceptors

1100+ transport aircraft

1000+ helicopters

140 attack helicopters

1450+ naval power

40+ frigates

50+ submarines

522,000 total land craft

32,000 armored fighting vehicles.

9000 towered artillery

2600 self propelled guns

14,000 tanks

3100 launch rocket systems

the men and weaponry is clearly there. The regimes instead are Israels first line of defence!

I think you may have a couple extra 0's on that soldier number, 185 million trained soldiers would be unexpectedly large.

 

[Volimar]

Anonymous just tweeted this:

 

[MisterFalcon]

The Turkish army is busy occupying North Cyprus and keeping the Kurds under control. The Pakistani army is at this very moment conducting a campaign in North Waziristan that 700,000 people fled from and would produce very similar images to the ones from Gaza if any journalists were there. The Iranian army is busy in Syria and Iraq while the Egyptian Army is busy with an insurgency in the Sinai, a lawless border with Libya, threatening to bomb Ethiopia over their use of Nile water and killing the Muslim Brotherhood if they try anything.

 

[MacNille]

Anonymous just tweeted this:

]

They should be careful:
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...to-anonymous-we-know-who-you-are-1771937.html
I know what I don't want after me: Mossad.

 

[Chariot]

They should be careful:
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...to-anonymous-we-know-who-you-are-1771937.html
I know what I don't want after me: Mossad.

This is somewhat exciting. How powerful is the Mossad?

 

[Hackworth]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/02/mossad-posts-message-to-anonymous-we-know-who-you-are-1771937.html

Also, built in AI will tell if you are “lying” about your registration or IP. You computer ”whispers” you exact real time GPS location no matter how great you think you are, you are holding in your hands a “Judas” that is “whispering” all things about you.

The are all paranoid which works to the advantage of the Intelligence services. Mossad is able to predict with 100% accuracy all the events that an individual “hacker’ will execute during a day, including their “cash” purchases and where. They go into out of the way shops to purchase food and think it’s a safe place. They always use, distinctive disguises like sun glasses, hats and other head coverings, and they all have the same “walk” about them, so they are easy to spot in a crowd.

Toppest of keks breh. This Mossad guy's been playing too much Wash_Doges

Wouldn't be surprised if it's a lazy propaganda piece to get people to sit down and shut up while the army gets back to killing

 

[MacNille]

http://beforeitsnews.com/alternative/2012/02/mossad-posts-message-to-anonymous-we-know-who-you-are-1771937.html

Toppest of keks breh. This Mossad guy's been playing too much Wash_Doges

Wouldn't be surprised if it's a lazy propaganda piece to get people to sit down and shut up while the army gets back to killing

he must have a time machine then. Look at the year where this article got made.

 

[Volimar]

They should be careful:
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...to-anonymous-we-know-who-you-are-1771937.html
I know what I don't want after me: Mossad.

When they start rounding them up or taking them out, I'll believe Mossad. Til then...

 

[Hackworth]

he must have a time machine then. Look at the year where this article got made.

Deus Ex, then. IDGAF.

 

[hydrophilic attack]

It's completely unrelated to this conflict. But if the Western world wanted to help Africa they would stop dumping millions of dollars in free supplies off to local warlords, and allow countries to build actual economies that aren't slanted so heavily.

Sorry for getting even more off-topic, but if the Western world truly wanted to help Africa, US and EU should stop the subsidies of their own farmers, which make it impossible for African farmers to compete.

They should be careful:
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...to-anonymous-we-know-who-you-are-1771937.html
I know what I don't want after me: Mossad.

Clicking the link for the "full story" leads to a (now deleted) article on a website called conspiracyhq. Doesn't sound like the most down-to-earth source if you ask me.

 

[neurosisxeno]

This is somewhat exciting. How powerful is the Mossad?

Pretty god damn powerful. Also, I don't doubt they have the capabilities to hunt down and find Anonymous members, they created Stuxnet after all...

 

[KtSlime]

Sorry for getting even more off-topic, but if the Western world truly wanted to help Africa, US and EU should stop the subsidies of their own farmers, which make it impossible for African farmers to compete.

This would also help with US immigration problems, but it's better for for big business this way. And it helps feed starving politicians.

 

[Siegcram]

They should be careful:
http://beforeitsnews.com/alternativ...to-anonymous-we-know-who-you-are-1771937.html
I know what I don't want after me: Mossad.

That shit isn't real. Come on now.