I think that's fine and it can be argued just how bleak and just how devoid of emotion it is. I mostly just reject the idea that MoS is somehow broken at the core because the movie had a relatively more sober approach to the material. It is about an orphaned alien trying to understand its place in the world and dealing with a terrifying world-destroying force. I don't see how it absolutely needs to be a Pollyanna superhero movie
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This week's Man Of Steel LTTP (spoilers)
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I think that's fine and it can be argued just how bleak and just how devoid of emotion it is. I mostly just reject the idea that MoS is somehow broken at the core because the movie had a relatively more sober approach to the material. It is about an orphaned alien trying to understand its place in the world and dealing with a terrifying world-destroying force. I don't see how it absolutely needs to be a Pollyanna superhero movie
bigboss370
Member
perfect comic book line
Marvel produces nothing but mass murderers.
The only difference is, Supes would have delivered a Bond-esque zinger after it.
"I guess he really did snap!"
Mengy
wishes it were bannable to say mean things about Marvel
LOL!
Yeah, that part pissed me off. My gf actually looked at me and said "really???". I heard more than one groan from the audience at that part too. Very poorly placed kiss, really made Clark look like a huge Dick.
So dumb.
I'm talking about balancing the two, something that superhero movies, and blockbusters in general, have to do to get those lines in the trailers and to have a broad appeal.
Captain America 1 is 100% goofy and is fantastic for it.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Hey, wait a sec.
Am I misremembering the order of events
It does one-liner, kiss, megafight, murder
Not Megafight, Murder, One-liner, Kiss
Anton Sugar
Member
I could very well be wrong, but I'm almost positive the fight has already happened, as they're standing in the wreckage when they kiss. And then maybe Zod enters his second form and attacks him again.
Still, tonally, very weird.
EatinOlives
Member
I loved the truckloads of DBZ action that didn't give a fuck. It was kind of carthartic after seeing so many Marvel movies cockblock so much of its own action. Yes, I do understand the value of "less is more" and appreciate it, but every once in a while it's also fun to just say "fuck it" and let it rip. Man of Steel was the latter for me.
it is though, it just gets on with it...like the comicbook movie equivalent of Rambo IV
no messing about
I don't think so
They thought they had won
He destroyed the machine, they got rid of the Kryptonians.
He saved her life.
They were celebrating... maybe not the best place to do it.
Then Zod is all like either you die or I die, and the mega fight begins.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Yeah, the original order is wrong.
Zod + Dubstep Machine
Superman vs. Dubstep Robot
Lois & Stabler vs Faora SIMULTANEOUS with Superman vs Zod
Superman + Lois + Plus shit one-liner and cliche romantic moment
Zod speech
Superman vs. Zod pt II
Twist-top Zod Stop
(Time passes)
Satellite Spike
Welcome to the Planet.
Mighty Chin
Banned
Please show me one zinger like that in any Marvel Movie!
I don't know why, but satellite spike gave me a good chuckle...
Anton Sugar
Member
Did you make a "in case of GAF argument" outline of MoS? Be honest.
Bobby Roberts
Banned
Came off the top of the dome like Morrie's wigs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zuX-Lnor7OU
The end of this scene
(most of Iron Man's fights)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sAx9Xut9CbY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41MsrSgDbyI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f1xmaS2E_qA
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Huh, I forgot that Superman snapping Zod's neck isn't new
It was visually stunning, and decently written. I was pulled out of the experience by bad dialogue a bit too often, but the pacing and narrative arc as a whole was alright.
I never like heavy handed allusions, but I understand how orchestrators of mass market projects may feel the need for it.
I didn't really feel like this was a good Superman story though. For me Superman stories are best when they highlight the differences in character between Clark Kent and Kal El. We saw almost nothing of Clark Kent, the bumbling, awkward disguise.
I never like heavy handed allusions, but I understand how orchestrators of mass market projects may feel the need for it.
I didn't really feel like this was a good Superman story though. For me Superman stories are best when they highlight the differences in character between Clark Kent and Kal El. We saw almost nothing of Clark Kent, the bumbling, awkward disguise.
I agree (I actually find Supes supporting cast to be a lot more interesting), but I saw this as an origin for both Clark and Superman. Like I don't believe he becomes the "Clark" we know until the final line in the movie, curious to see how they follow it up
Mighty Chin
Banned
Sorry where is it? Is "I've dated hotter chicks than you" the Schwarzenegger/Stallone one liner after a kill that you are claiming that Marvel does?
The Thor one is a better example.
You get the point though
And yes "I've dated hotter chicks" is totally a bad one-liner
Not saying I dislike it, I love 80s movies and Bond
Which to me is an unfair expectation.
We knew this was going to be a Superman debut and the beginning... with the expectation of more to come. That excludes Kingdom Come, Action 775, and All-Star from the running immediately, which all feature seasoned veteran Supermen... heck, two of them are "end-of-life" Superman stories that get away with kicking over sacred cows and throwing in kitchen sink, because it's meant to be a final, terminal ending.
"Secret Identity" is a meta-textual Superboy story... MoS could not have the benefit of that 4th Wall aspect of Superman pre-existing in his own universe. They also wanted the debut of an adult Superman rather than a redux of Smallville or the weird time-skip-in-a-cave from the Donner films. However, the meat of the adult story is that "first-contact" interaction between the first fantastic and the government (going from begrudging mutual alliance to eventual friendship). MoS captured that... Clark was just as "playful" in the interrogation and in confronting the General... dropping a drone is a little less terrifying that reorganizing the US nuclear arsenal... it's also a more reasonable power-scale that you can use for future films (a Supes that can effortlessly swap nukes is a little too strong for modern rational film).
Birthright and Earth One were likely amongst the strongest influences on the film, even if they're diametrically opposed with respect to how one arrives at the responsibility of the cape and crest. Earth One is also more of a Superboy-ish story (where Clark is an entitled man-child entering Metropolis lamenting his options in life) whereas Birthright accounts for the "lost years" between high school and Metropolis. MoS likewise accounts for that time but with Krypton as Clark's watershed moment, rather than an intricate political and civil war in Africa (great reading but awkward to translate to screen without other unnecessary implications). The main thing I missed from Birthright was MoS lack of color on Krypton which would have so easily explained and justified- as it did in the book- Superman's color scheme... many forms of costume and dress instantly make sense when ascribed to someone's heritage and culture.
I'm not saying those aren't great works, but I think your expectations- like many viewers- were unfair... expecting a seasoned paragon father-figure out of the gate wasn't the intention nor should it have been.
I saw it the same way. I will miss the wonderful set up between Clark and Lois, with Lois having feelings for Superman and Clark having feelings for Lois. They sort of shot that in the foot, but I can always watch the 78 Superman for a great version of that dynamic.
Nerdkiller
Membeur
Where's Liquidsnake so we can hear his side of the story? Will he talk about how Snyder channelled The Creator and that helped us give Man of Steel or something?
I read his LTTP thread while searching to make sure there weren't any recent ones.
It was... interesting, to say the least.
Anton Sugar
Member
"unadulterated innerness" gets me every time.
samus i am
Member
Everything was sooooo serious. The color pallet was straight out of Gears of War. The amount of destruction was pretty irresponsible. The twenty minute opener with Jor-El was completely unnecessary, and obviously was only included to showcase Russell Crowe.
Other than that I liked it
Messypandas
Member
Bobby Roberts
Banned
The posters for this thing were largely poopy.
Shoulda went with the Mondo, WB.
Shoulda went with the Mondo, WB.
Yep.
Which is what amuses me with Waid's 'expert analysis.' He thinks THAT is what hurts the film, and not terrible flashbacks/Jon Kent/Russell Crowe playing Kryptonian Batman/those ridiculous Kryptonian dragons.
Richard Donner nailed it when he had Krypton as a planet so advanced they were too egotistical to simply listen to reason. MOS turns all these scenes that should be simple and quiet into absurd action set-pieces, and then wonders why it's critically drubbed. Say what you will about Batman Begins, Nolan knew when to go simple and just have characters talking instead of 'OMG TORNADO SET PIECE.'
I mean shit... would Goyer/Snyder have had Crime Alley as an action scene with Thomas fighting the mugger over the gun while Martha tried launching kung-fu kicks at him as rain cascaded down from the sky, culminating in Martha being hit by lighting, kicking Thomas so he was hit by lightning, and Joe Chill firing ten rounds from a six round gun as Bruce yelled in slow-motion, ending with Joe Chill realising he's out of ammo and saying:
'NEXT TIME, KID.'
I literally SHUDDER. Fuck Goyer.
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Hope your looking forward for that flashback in Batman V Superman
I'd love to see that flashback.
Yeah it's stupid, but I'd feel angry if I suffered through the terrible ones in MOS and we didn't get a stunningly absurd retelling of Batman's origin. I also hope Wonder Woman's made out of the clay from Ghost.
Mix Master
Member
props should be given to michael shannon though, super bad ass in the film
Sibersk Esto
Banned
Too bad about that cottonmouth
And the haircut.
Mighty Chin
Banned
We're not talking about Winter Soldier.
Mighty Chin
Banned
Jeez I think I gotta give Nolan more credit now.
TUROK
Member
The Winter Soldier has worse quick cuts than the Bourne Supremacy. I'm not sure I'd call it the best anything.
Haloid1177
Banned
My man.
That said...
If Wonder Woman is made out of clay in BvS continuity, can it be the clay from Ghost please? If that happens, the film gets an automatic A+!
Hold on. I think its unfair for you to assume that i expected a "seasoned paragon father-figure" because no where did i state it or that i expected to be the definitive supes. In fact, i stated that all i want is an ounce of resemblance to supes. No where did i state that MOS has to be like those books. I knew what this movie was like going in. I read everything about it. So that particular argument is not valid within the context of my complaints. If you read what I hated about the movie, you would know that. i' even stated that, within the context of the movie, certain things made sense but that the movie just shits the bed when trying to do anything resembling subtlety or character arc. My complaints were WITH the movie not with what's came before it. The movie is just bad because its poorly written, edited, acted, paced, etc.
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