we know it's incomplete. They have shown a map of venus that has 2 more missions than what was leaked from the beta. So we know there is more.
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Destiny: Only one area per planet
- Thread starter murgo
- Start date
we know it's incomplete. They have shown a map of venus that has 2 more missions than what was leaked from the beta. So we know there is more.
Not that I care, but maybe if you read some of the posts, you can see some are being hyperbolic as hell about this topic. Sure there are sycophants as well, but some of the posters on the other side are being reasonable, like Tiemen and Zakalwe.
Principate
Saint Titanfall
It's about as misrepresentative as misrepresentation comes I'm not even sure why people are arguing against it. They said these valleys and moutains aren't the skybox for the game you can actually go and visit them. In the initial release that's exactly what they are.
You can't get more clear cut than outright lying. The guy even had to cheek to say he wasn't going to explore there for the interest of time.
Or you could be a bit less sensitive?
They didn't intentionally put any of the info that was datamined into the beta. It's pretty difficult to remove things like that without the game breaking entirely.
I never said "defending", that is your word, so air quotes are probably not necessary. "stomping" was probably rather emotive and probably unwarranted, so fair enough. The fact that you have referred to yourself as "defending" probably shows that you may be taking criticism of the game as a threat to your own opinion of the game, which it absolutely shouldn't.
I think I have been reasonable in my calling out of both extremes on this subject and have also given examples of where I have felt the brief experience of my play time in the beta fell flat. I'm not particularly invested in the franchise, but was surprised in it's offerings and the positive reactions towards the explorability and size. I have also said that I hope that the game offers more than has been indicated in the beta and alluded to the Q&A in the other thread discussing that the missions are reasonably representative of the missions in the final game which to some that may have felt that the game didn't really fit with what they wanted from the game.
Your mention of context is exactly what I feel Bungie could have given with regards to the beta and how it relates to the content in the final product. Probably would have prevented this 86+ page thread
PrivateWHudson
Member
If it's the same map I'm looking at, then their are 5 missions with dotted lines, two strikes and a Skull (Raid?). Then there are two missions that don't connect. Which if I had to guess would be the Story Challenges.
Scourge of Winter - in Winter's Lair
and
Eye of a Gate Lord - in The Terminus
and
Eye of a Gate Lord - in The Terminus
Now I'm out for realz. Just thought it polite to reply to you since you posted something insightful.
In the end I agree with everyone that says we find out around release whether or not the game is worth the money they ask for it.
I think having misleading footage of your game (especially at E3 debuts) is just bullshit. Things change, sure, but at least make some effort to inform people that the scope changed.
Look to Rainbow Six Siege on how they handled it, they acknowledged that the game they were making didn't work out and here is our new try for it.
(And be sure that I will be voicing my disapproval in them too if the end results meaningfully differs, don't worry.)
At this point I'm disappointed in Bungie for not even acknowledging that their debut is divergent from the game and flabbergasted that such an opinion is controversial.
And as I have said numerous times now, I do not intend for my posts to be sweeping commentary on any and all posts in this thread. I have said before that it is ok to express disappointment, and that yes, Bungie indeed talked about something more ambitious in the early stages of this game and right up to the E3'13 gameplay reveal. I maintain that their ambitions were honest and that that specific statement was a statement of intention on what they were planning to do and that it just didn't work out due to various restrictions. Yes, it was mis-representative ( in hindsight ), but it was not with malicious intent. I believe that at the point in time that the statement was made, that was very much what Bungie planned Destiny to be but it just didn't work out as intended over the course of development and was dropped for the more confined spaces we got in the Beta and Alpha.
I understand that you ( and others ) did not mean to imply malicious intent and wished to merely call Bungie out on the mis-representative statements, and that's fine and justifiable, but at the same time there were other people claiming that Bungie had cut content from the game with the intention of selling it back to us as DLC or that they intentionally spread false information to drive up pre-orders. It was those people that I intended to address with my posts.
I used 'defending', because that is what some people have resorted to calling one side of the discussion, apparently in some attempt to discredit a viewpoint different from theirs. Not saying you did that, but others did and that is why I used it in air quotes.
I do not feel threatened by criticism of destiny. I welcome criticism of Destiny and I have some fair amount of complaints myself too ( some of the Beacon missions aren't really enjoyable, even as side stuff, weapon balance needs to get looked at in both PVP and PVE, loot system needs to be more consistent and rewarding, loading screens should be toned down, respawn timers should be longer, etc. ). This is not about defending Destiny from criticism, it's about calling out people making unfounded assumptions and extrapolating them onto the entire game, about people claiming Bungie is cutting content to sell it back as DLC and about people claiming how Destiny will be super short based on an arbitrary zone numbers, etc., as I have all said before.
Destiny offers more than what you have seen in the Beta, as I also have tried to explain before, and while the Beacon missions will probably stay the same, the way you will flow through them and the motivations for doing them will be completely different in the full game compared to grinding them in the Beta just because there's nothing else to do. I have posted on all that before and I'll not type it out here again as it would turn this into another megapost.
You seem pretty reasonable in your opinions though, and having certain concerns or problems is fine. I'll repeat that my posts do not necessarily apply to everyone in the thread.
This exact sentence was in my post, you know;
Me said:
PrivateWHudson
Member
I know, but you sounded so sure of the assumption with "definitely some stuff missing" that I thought you may at least be taking an educated guess. Not trying to correct you, just grasping for a line since the more I talk/hear about it I'm in the "hoping some stuff is missing" camp.
I only commented because it read to me that you were categorizing the criticisms and I didn't feel that my criticism and how I perceived the criticisms of a few others posters to be represented in those categories.
In the end I come from this argument from the customer perspective of people that don't follow forums such as NeoGAF. The people on this forum are on average more informed about upcoming games than the people that only check out what to pre-order at E3. I think it's important that publisher and developers are being as honest as possible about what their game is going to be when they show it and to be clear when it changes.
I personally welcome the change of announcement closer to release as you see now. (Example: Evolve, Middle-Earth: Shadow of Mordor; Littlebigplanet 3, Gran Turismo 7, AC5, Far Cry 4 etc.)
For example: I've expressed disappointment in a missing animation in Naughty Dog's The Last of Us demo, which in the grand scheme of things is not a big deal nor do I think they were intentionally trying to mislead; the PS3 just has a very strict memory requirement. I would compare the above with the missing space ship phasing in new players and wouldn't raise a big stink about it except be disappointed because it looked cool.
I just think the vastness of the world was a marquee feature of Destiny's debut.
hmm didn't think about the possibility of it being story challenges since we don't know exactly what they are. I would assume though it would be on the same mission marker since they have the same names as some of the leaked missions. and yes the skull is the known raid.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Didn't notice that they were the same names as Story Missions. Now I'm more curious why those two missions on Venus don't have dotted lines...
That said, how do they make the little mission that was
Restoration
Level 24
Restoration (Old Russia, Earth; level 24)
Return to Fallen territory and hunt for parts to restore your ship's ability for interplanetary travel.
Return to Fallen territory and hunt for parts to restore your ship's ability for interplanetary travel.
Perhaps they choose a different starting point and you now have to get the [objective spoiler]
Warp Drive
Ultra Captain
DISCLAIMER; This is pure speculation on my part.
Crimsonsky
Member
Ouch, saw on Machinima (which linked GAF) that Old Russia was about 20% of the content, even if it's 15% that's pretty disappointing. Here's hoping that one of those DLC's is space combat or something amazing. Otherwise it's a 100 bucks for about 8-10 hours of story(Old Russia was two max) and Halo competitive multiplayer with Space Magic. I love Bungie, but I can't deny that is pretty underwhelming.
Twilight Gap
Member
I wanted to throw this together mostly for my own reference. It's a list of the known content that was datamined from the beta. Highlighted text is what appeared in the alpha or beta. This does not include blocked off or incomplete areas in the beta -of which at least 5 are known to exist - or post-launch expansions and DLC.
Whether this is a complete list or not, it is more than a Bungie game has launched with in the past.
Whether this is a complete list or not, it is more than a Bungie game has launched with in the past.
GAF > Internet > GAF.
What we've seen of Old Russia is not 20% of the game. It is more comparable to 10% ( tops ) from what we know and from what parts of the limited Beta were actually representative of what you'd be doing in the full game. I've done at least one quite extensive post on it here, shouldn't be that hard to find if you're interested.
PrivateWHudson
Member
If you take unique missions, and not higher level repeats, then...
Code:
Story Strike Raid Total
Beta Russia 5 1 0 6
Mined List 22 6 1 29
21%Oh, was it confirmed that all levels are the same length?
PrivateWHudson
Member
Okay then, how about planets. Earth was probably about average, with the Moon and especially
The Reef
Code:
Planets Total
Beta 1 1
Mined List 5 5
20%Interficium
Banned
Oh hey, there's assumptions based on arbitrary numbers from a possibly incomplete list again. I'm going off to bed now, as I need my sleep for work tomorrow, but I'll try to get you a detailed reply as soon as possible. While I'm sleeping, you could read through one of my other posts I did on these assumptions, if you want to.
Good night everybody! ;-)
Twilight Gap
Member
Not sure if this was cheeky, but it's probably a closer estimate for Old Russia considering the 3 areas that were not playable during the Beta. That number gets smaller when you factor in the rest of the game, including PvP, armor, weapons, social areas, classes, systems and other things Bungie has yet to reveal.
At this time, any percentages shouldn't be taken literally.
BadgerDeluxe
Neo Member
"We hope" is apparently a term people can no longer understand.
Oh snarky, how original. Because your interpretation is the right one of what is being said.
Also curious how it always coincides with the love of a company. Otherwise I will be looking forward to you always using the most charitable most ass-covery interpretation of any company statement ever.
PrivateWHudson
Member
Get some sleep! I'm just showing how someone could (hopefully incorrectly) come up with a 20% figure.
BadgerDelux:
As for the moon being the smallest destination...Do you think the tower is larger than the moon? I don't know if
The Reef
I know this is all speculation and milage will vary, but I sunk a good 6-8 hours in the beta; if I end up getting 30-40 hours out of the final game, I'd be pretty content.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
At this point the Reef is looking like just a social destination, that's all.
The only hope remains in what the booklet they sent couple weeks ago pre-beta refers as "space environments". Derelict spaceships perhaps? Who knows.
Could've sworn they said we would be able to fight on this thing or at least be able to go on it... That was awhile ago now though.
Trickster
Member
Could've sworn they said we would be able to fight on this thing... That was awhile ago now though.
They said we would visit derelict spaceships, yes.
Lord of Castamere
Member
That was one of the areas lumped in with Old Chicago. No one knows it's fate now.
buy teh haloz
Banned
I put about 16 hours into the beta according to my stats. I'm not too worried.
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
Quoting literally from the booklet:
"The fourth core location in Destiny (though not the final environment as there are space-based levels on alien tomb ships and more)"
Everything else in that booklet has checked out so far...
Lord of Castamere
Member
What booklet?
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
The Complete Guide to Destiny.
A pamphlet they sent bundled with a ds4 to press and youtubers. Before the database mining happened, that booklet was what started the current content fears.
It's funny that Bungie is happy sending that to pr mouthpieces so they regurgitate that back to us, but you know, actually having some honest-to-good direct communnication with cusotmers? Nah, can't have that.
Lord of Castamere
Member
Okay, I didn't know. Saturn is in the data mine too so that's good to know.
Jest Chillin
Member
This question gets asked every so often and I feel like it represents a misunderstanding and also mislabels what some of us are actually doing in this thread. Nobody is questioning having a criticism of the game. Some people are making assumptions about the content of the complete game or stating that Bungie has maliciously lied/mislead people about the game and others are trying to get people to tone down the rhetoric and approach things from a more even keeled point of view.
The reason why? Because people will read those posts and take them for fact and walk away with a misrepresentation of facts. For example the quote below...
So not only are these assumptions being read and taken as fact here on GAF... various other gaming outlets are now reporting these assumptions as News to the internet at large. That's pretty major. Then there are posts like the following...
Which, when read without knowing the context, appears to reinforce those same assumptions as if they're fact.
Most people here on GAF don't appreciate misinformation when it's being delivered by News outlets.. so why should we ignore it when it's being spread here? Especially since GAF> Internet > GAF is an actual thing that happens and news sites regularly pull Topic Headlines and random posts from GAF and cite them in their articles.
Now there's nothing wrong with having concerns about the possibility of a lack of content. There's nothing wrong with having concerns about a game having micro-transactions or getting Pay DLC'd to death. There IS something wrong though, with acting as if these things are a forgone conclusion without any concrete evidence of it. It can unfairly damage a game and/or company's reputation.
Some may ask, "Why do you care about the company's reputation so much?" Well because if the game comes out and it's actually good and I enjoy it, I'd like to be able to play more games like that in the future. So rather than take the doomsayer approach, it's better if people simply acknowledge that, "Hey this is my concern, so I'm going to wait and see what the deal is with this game before I start yelling from the rooftops that it has no content, bad content, or misrepresented itself." With that approach, people could still read Gaffer XYZ's concerns and consider them as well without being led to believe that these concerns are factual problems with the game.
If the game comes out and it's bad, people will know and the appropriate reactions will follow. There's no need to jump ahead to cries of bad game before anyone even knows if that's true.
Saturn is in one of the old vidocs too... Not that that means anything since a lot has likely changed. But they specifically mentioned it as a destination. Could be DLC though I guess... Didn't quite make the cut.
Doomshroom
Member
That is stupid as hell! So the pamphlet started the fears that there is low content and then the fear mongerers left out important informations as "The fourth core location in Destiny (though not the final environment as there are space-based levels on alien tomb ships and more)"?
Would not that be kinda important?
Crimson_Gold
Member
Never let facts get in the way of a good story
Bitmap Frogs
Mr. Community
The pamphlet DID confirm before that deej comment that there would only be 4 explorable zones, 1 per planet. Which is sorta where the concerns started.
Final Verdict
Member
I am not sure why people are so worried about Destiny lacking content.
I put 25+ hours into the beta alone, and it didn't even have all of old Russia unlocked! Not to mention the level 8 cap....
I know people are worried about how the level cap in Destiny will be locked to level 20, but you have to remember that there are multiple paths, or concentrations that you can level up for each character which will give you different abilities and supers to use. Also, a big part of the game will be the hunt for better weapons.
There are 5 different classes of weapons -- Common, Uncommon, Rare, Legendary, and Exotic. Getting Legendary weapons will be hard enough, and require some serious time to be spent in the game, but the hunt for Exotic weapons will be even more epic.
A lot of people have been expecting there to be a massive open world in Destiny (including myself), and are now disappointed. I will not pretend that I was a bit let down, but saying that Destiny will be lacking content is an incredibly ignorant statement.
The world of Destiny (from what we have seen in the Beta) is quite dense, filled with enemies, chest, and dead ghost to find. There are also a slew of activities to do such as Strikes, Story Missions, Raids, Bountys, and free roam missions.
Then on top of that you have the whole competitive aspect of Destiny in the Crucible, and they have also built a social zone (The Tower) for you and your buddies, or clan to hang out and talk, plan strategy, or even have a dance party.
I think the big mistake that most people are making here is assuming that Destiny is a MMORPG.
While it does share a lot of similarities to a MMORPG, at it's heart is is still a FPS, with perhaps the biggest differentiation being that it is still just a $60, and will have no subscription fee like ESO or WoW, and from what we know at least, will not be heavily undermined by a FTP micro transaction system.
Compared to a lot of $60 games out there, especially some of these multiplayer only games such as Titanfall or Evolve, Destiny stands out as having more than enough content to satisfy, and will almost certainly be heavily supported with expansions for those who just can't get enough!
I put 25+ hours into the beta alone, and it didn't even have all of old Russia unlocked! Not to mention the level 8 cap....
I know people are worried about how the level cap in Destiny will be locked to level 20, but you have to remember that there are multiple paths, or concentrations that you can level up for each character which will give you different abilities and supers to use. Also, a big part of the game will be the hunt for better weapons.
There are 5 different classes of weapons -- Common, Uncommon, Rare, Legendary, and Exotic. Getting Legendary weapons will be hard enough, and require some serious time to be spent in the game, but the hunt for Exotic weapons will be even more epic.
A lot of people have been expecting there to be a massive open world in Destiny (including myself), and are now disappointed. I will not pretend that I was a bit let down, but saying that Destiny will be lacking content is an incredibly ignorant statement.
The world of Destiny (from what we have seen in the Beta) is quite dense, filled with enemies, chest, and dead ghost to find. There are also a slew of activities to do such as Strikes, Story Missions, Raids, Bountys, and free roam missions.
Then on top of that you have the whole competitive aspect of Destiny in the Crucible, and they have also built a social zone (The Tower) for you and your buddies, or clan to hang out and talk, plan strategy, or even have a dance party.
I think the big mistake that most people are making here is assuming that Destiny is a MMORPG.
While it does share a lot of similarities to a MMORPG, at it's heart is is still a FPS, with perhaps the biggest differentiation being that it is still just a $60, and will have no subscription fee like ESO or WoW, and from what we know at least, will not be heavily undermined by a FTP micro transaction system.
Compared to a lot of $60 games out there, especially some of these multiplayer only games such as Titanfall or Evolve, Destiny stands out as having more than enough content to satisfy, and will almost certainly be heavily supported with expansions for those who just can't get enough!
rocksteady1983
Member
I'm more worried about the weapons not being physically different, but just having different skins. I'm most excited about the loot and don't want to just have a basic looking scout rifle be considered legendary cause it has higher stats and purple camo.
Have they made a statement or is it known if there will be several physical different versions of the same category weapon?
Have they made a statement or is it known if there will be several physical different versions of the same category weapon?
They've already shown in the beta that different models of each weapon type have unique skins, based on manufacturer, and some stat differences. The Cydonia AR looks totally different than the (other high grade AR I'm forgetting the name of) and they both operate on different styles. The weapons available from the various reputation vendors all had unique models, I didn't see any of them reused.
joecanada
Member
I'm not worried about content but I do disagree with the part you posted about hunting for exotic weapons. Loot grinding is not content, if it is then I will reiterate my previous post telling everyone to play warframe... Way more characters, weapons, better melee, etc. Personally I prefer destiny but if it's loot you want, there's better games out there.
Inceptional
Member
Some people like me are worried because we got bored doing the same thing and shooting the same enemies after 5 hours, let alone 25. If you had a blast then that's great but you can't deny the fact that things got repetitive fairly quickly in the beta. You obviously enjoyed it A LOT to put that much time in but to wonder why others might be feeling a little wary makes you sound like a fanboy.