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Legend of Korra Book 3: Change |OT| SCHEDULEBENDING

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It's quite clear Korra's writing is more hamfisted at pushing its themes down your throat.

First season is
obviously equality.
Second season is
peaceful co-existance
Third season is
corrupt government and ABSOLUTE FREEDOM

I doubt there is any way to salvage this show. It looks beautiful and the fights are well animated. The story is just so stupid. The characters are stupid. Motives are stupid. Enemies are stupid.

Amon has the most depth to any of the villains so far. It would have been better if his arc was brought throughout the entire series. Instead we get dumb retcons after retcons.

Avatar: The Last Airbender had its shit moments but its shit moments were still better than this.
What exactly was the theme and motivation of the villians of ATLA other than evil tyrants that want to conquer the world?
Her talent actually first surfaced in the first episode. She is the one, remember, who accidentally broke the iceburg that revealed the Aangsicle. I think that was before they got the bending mechnics down 100%, but it just bends the rules, doesn't break them, and it foreshadows her talent.
meh. Reading entire threads of people complain about LoK with "Mary Sue", "Over powered", "Deus Ex Machina", etc. Which I dont disagree with as I agree that some of it doesn't make sense or does seem to convenient but I felt there was a fair amount of it in ATLA as well which is largely ignored. Again I love the series and its mythology there is some issues I had with the ending of Book 1 and chunks of Book 2 for LoK but I also think people are a lot more critical to this series than ATLA when there are plenty of questionable writing moments.
 
If one thing the Avatar series has taught me is that if you're a non-bender you might as well not show up to the important fights. Ty lee and Mai were really the only exception to this rule

I disagree.

-Suki and the Kyoshi Warriors were fomidable characters (that seen in The Boiling Rock Pt 2 man).
-Hakota (Sokka and Katara's dad) and the Water Tribe were nonbenders and held their ground against the Fire Nation well.
-Master Piando (Sokka's master) helped take back Ba Sing Se from a Sozin's Comet powered up army and he kicked ass.
-Jet and his Freedom Fighters were nonbenders, but did a solid job fighting the Fire Nation and Dai Li.
-Even Sokka was useful against benders when he took a tactical stance. He defeated Combustion Man, fought during the Eclipse Invasion, and took out those benders that were about to kill him and Toph on the blimp during Sozin's Comet.

Korra sadly shits on nonbenders hard. Asami always gets the short end of the stick, and then they went and gave Bumi airbending. Ugh. But I think TLA did a decent job of showing that there were nonbenders could hold their own.

There wasn't really much she could do to counter a surprise earth bending enclosure.

Yeah, but it was the direction in general I didn't like. They could have easily shown Asami and Naga put up a struggle before being taken down. But nope, they just get curbstomped. I suppose they were trying to keep who caught them a secret and all during that moment, but...meh.
 
meh. Reading entire threads of people complain about LoK with "Mary Sue", "Over powered", "Deus Ex Machina", etc. Which I dont disagree with as I agree that some of it doesn't make sense or does seem to convenient but I felt there was a fair amount of it in ATLA as well which is largely ignored. Again I love the series and its mythology there is some issues I had with the ending of Book 1 and chunks of Book 2 for LoK but I also think people are a lot more critical to this series than ATLA when there are plenty of questionable writing moments.

Most people don't have any real idea what those terms actually mean in terms of narrative. Or rather, since there is no 'official' academic standard, people don't have very rigorous definitions for those things. Mary sues more often than not, to them, are just people who happen to be extremely talented, when that is way too broad a definition of the term if you think about it. And I've seen more than one person genuinely try to argue that a mary sue can just be a character they happen to dislike. When you have that weak and flimsy a definition, a mary sue can be anyone regardless of the flaws they have or circumstances surrounding them.

Korra of LoK seasons 1 and 2 is a Mary Sue in that things in the story don't function the way they should, but do so to giver her achievement in the narrative. Elements of this can be even found in season 3. Korra kept the gate open, but it wasn't because of any belief or new insight she had. Her reason began and ended with "Well, why the hell not?" Tenzin and Zaheer and others all believe it was the right decision, but she didn't make it with any motivation or intent that can be read as wise or noble. Yet the characters all praise her for it, when all it was was a whim.

As far as TLA goes, obviously, we all have our biases, but I like to think I am appropriately critical of TLA and LoK. I just genuinely come to the conclusion that LoK really is that inferior and have plenty of reasons I can back that up with.
 
Most people don't have any real idea what those terms actually mean in terms of narrative. Or rather, since there is no 'official' academic standard, people don't have very rigorous definitions for those things. Mary sues more often than not, to them, are just people who happen to be extremely talented, when that is way too broad a definition of the term if you think about it. And I've seen more than one person genuinely try to argue that a mary sue can just be a character they happen to dislike. When you have that weak and flimsy a definition, a mary sue can be anyone regardless of the flaws they have or circumstances surrounding them.

Korra of LoK seasons 1 and 2 is a Mary Sue in that things in the story don't function the way they should, but do so to giver her achievement in the narrative. Elements of this can be even found in season 3. Korra kept the gate open, but it wasn't because of any belief or new insight she had. Her reason began and ended with "Well, why the hell not?" Tenzin and Zaheer and others all believe it was the right decision, but she didn't make it with any motivation or intent that can be read as wise or noble. Yet the characters all praise her for it, when all it was was a whim.

As far as TLA goes, obviously, we all have our biases, but I like to think I am appropriately critical of TLA and LoK. I just genuinely come to the conclusion that LoK really is that inferior and have plenty of reasons I can back that up with.
Im not specifically referring to you. I also agree that LoK series is weaker than the original for numerous reasons. However as I said a lot of people tend to gloss over ATLA's flaws and magnify LoK's flaws.

For example Aang merging with the Ocean Spirit and becoming that giant deity has never really been explained and there has been nothing that has happened before or after those events that suggest similar abilities. Likewise I found Katara's becoming a water bending master and Aang's ability to learn the three elements, master the avatar state and enter the spirit world for the first time all in three months to be ridiculous given how everyone else in the series outside of the main characters took a considerable more amount of time and effort. However, what ATLA did much better than Korra about was how they wrote it so that people were able to accept these things. Unlike how Korra was able to get airbending, avatar state, etc.
 
It's pretty much like comparing Part 1 of Naruto to Part 2 of Naruto.

Regardless if you like Naruto in general, Part 1 had a central theme, of regardless of where you are from, working hard and never giving up will help you reach your dream regardless of how you're born and with what. Childish, maybe, but it still was a theme that I'm happy for a show to have since it was important to have.

Part 2 destroys that theme, making it completely useless, changes the structure of everything and overall somehow makes part 1 worse, epically when people say, Neji was right all along (He was,)

Though Legend of Korra really didn't destroy many themes from the original series, but it itself doesn't have any. The first season of equality, didn't really cover it. It was almost saying to non-benders (Get good) Before moving on, no lesson no anything. I can't complain about their themes being hamfisted if they barely have any.

Season 2, Um, what theme, what lesson, dumb stuff happens and our hero is rewarded when it does. She makes mistakes and no one is called out for it, everyone just accepts blame when she places it on her despite the fact that how she reacted pretty much justified them keeping everything from her in the first place.

Season 3 is better, but still there really isn't a central theme, which is fine, not every show needs one. Though the continue mistreatment of non-benders as characters is funny and despite the show being beautiful, there really isn't any agency in combat due to the fact no one is going to get hurt.

This isn't Jojo where anybody can die in any battle at anytime, we know most of these characters are going to make it out of combat alive. Making the entire thing almost a song and dance when a lot of time nothing is actually learned from fighting and no actual danger is present.
 
Man Mako & Bolin ain't shit. At least not compared to Katara, Zuko, and Toph. Were Katara and Toph really that abnormal in bending ability? I don't think I've seen Mako & Bolin not get beat down yet, in any season. I feel like Suyin's kids could've handled that shit. Or maybe it's just because basically everyone Mako & Bolin have fought so far have been basically the top benders in the world.

The most obvious explanation in the context of the series for the difference in combat skill for characters like Mako and Bolin, when compared to Toph and Katara, is simply the era they live in.

Most times folks mention Toph and Katara being prodigies but the context of how they learn is the one most folks miss. They lived in an age where fighting was common place and themselves were struggling in a war against the Fire nation for the entire series. They became strong as a necessity. If you look at Katara, she barely could do anything with waterbending in Book 1 and wasn't recognized as a "master" until the end of the season. It wasn't until the 3rd season that she could fight on the level necessary to beat Azula. That was after many battles and many incidents where she could learn.

You can make an easier case for Toph being a prodigy but when you take a look, you can see that her situation is unique too, Her background and the era they were in with technology is different. Her abilities are a result of facing personal adversity and overcoming it. Where she's a prodigy is in the ability to realize all of this.

When you take a look at Mako and Bolin, while they've had rough lives they weren't fighting wars to survive each and every day. They fought some but it's not to the same level as someone that lived in the era of the 100 year war. They don't even have the military training that would help either. Their world was just not conducive to training many fighters. Then there are the fact that styles and mentality when it comes to bending have likely evolved over time as well. The creators actually show a bit of this fact in the fighting. Whether or not it's on purpose, I don't know but the actual bending during fights is pretty different than during the ATLA age. At least, I think it is. Season 1 kind of set it up.
 
Man Mako & Bolin ain't shit. At least not compared to Katara, Zuko, and Toph. Were Katara and Toph really that abnormal in bending ability? I don't think I've seen Mako & Bolin not get beat down yet, in any season. I feel like Suyin's kids could've handled that shit. Or maybe it's just because basically everyone Mako & Bolin have fought so far have been basically the top benders in the world.

They definitely wouldn't have been able to imo. The red lotus team members were hyped up as being able to take down any bender in 1v1.
 
What exactly was the theme and motivation of the villians of ATLA other than evil tyrants that want to conquer the world?

meh. Reading entire threads of people complain about LoK with "Mary Sue", "Over powered", "Deus Ex Machina", etc. Which I dont disagree with as I agree that some of it doesn't make sense or does seem to convenient but I felt there was a fair amount of it in ATLA as well which is largely ignored. Again I love the series and its mythology there is some issues I had with the ending of Book 1 and chunks of Book 2 for LoK but I also think people are a lot more critical to this series than ATLA when there are plenty of questionable writing moments.

Never said the themes in ATLA were better, but they were more subtle and not thrown in your face. I can only think of a handful of episodes where a theme was shoved down your throat (female warriors guys!)
 
When
Korra and Asami were caught towards the end,
I was like "How did
Ghazan
catch up so fast?" When it turned out that they were
caught by the Earth Queen's henchmen,
I was like "that makes sense". lol.
 
tumblr_n9n0xobHSe1ra83u1o1_500.gif
 
I've been thinking, if this isn't going to be on Nick anymore, the creators will have much more leeway on the content in future episodes. They won't be restricted to be "kid-friendly" for Nick, unless the next seasons will still be on Nick.com.

I'm sure they will be.

And Season 4's already been written, so sadly no leeway there. It's a bummer, I really would've liked them to at least make the episodes 30 minutes to flesh some more things out. Even on Season 3, by far the best paced season so far IMO, I still have a niggling feeling that they have to rush things faster than they would like. :(
 
I thought it was pretty stupid for Korra to fall for Zaheer's trick. She should have known better than to stay and have a chat.
 
I thought it was pretty stupid for Korra to fall for Zaheer's trick. She should have known better than to stay and have a chat.

Well, it was what they were so blatantly referencing with the Pai Sho game. Korra is like Bolin at Pai Sho, headstrong and moving quick. Zaheer is calculating, like Asami. Asami won every time after all...
 
Well, it was what they were so blatantly referencing with the Pai Sho game. Korra is like Bolin at Pai Sho, headstrong and moving quick. Zaheer is calculating, like Asami. Asami won every time after all...

I think it was all just a set up for Asami. Asami ruins the day again!
 
But...Asami is stupid? She's just belted in, she's not locked to the gurney, the gurney is locked to the air ship. =p
 
But...Asami is stupid? She's just belted in, she's not locked to the gurney, the gurney is locked to the air ship. =p

I don't think the gurney is locked to the air ship.
I thought something similar at first like when Asami comes back they press a button and the wall flips on Asami trapping Korra on the other side but looking at it again it looks like the gurney is separate from the wall so that they can transport Korra still in the gurney when they arrive in Ba Sing Se.
 
Good episode again. Red Lotus sounds awesome. Shit, Korra should spend a year with these guys and learn mind combustion, lava bending, and hyper water bending.

If this was Naruto, he could have TnJ'd Zaheer into changing sides.
 
Good episode again. Red Lotus sounds awesome. Shit, Korra should spend a year with these guys and learn mind combustion, lava bending, and hyper water bending.

If this was Naruto, he could have TnJ'd Zaheer into changing sides.

While their bending is great their goals are as stupid as the Equalist.

Choas? Really?
 
I know there is a real world aspect to its but it doesn't make it any less dumb. Communities, hierarchies and organization is an integral part of being human.
Not according to anarchists, evidently. I don't see a society without government working, but I'm also not political minded enough to have looked up the reasons anarchists give for why their society would be able to function. You can't say something is stupid until you hear the reasoning for that position.

I did talk to an anarchist once, several years ago. Essentially, he came off as a hyper idealist to me. The best argument he had was this study where a company tried to have the workers work without any supervision or oversight, with no one person being the leader, and it lead to a far more efficient work force than with a centralized leadership. I doubted that it would be like that if such a system was spread over the whole nation, but it's not a notion to be dismissed out of hand.

Im not specifically referring to you. I also agree that LoK series is weaker than the original for numerous reasons. However as I said a lot of people tend to gloss over ATLA's flaws and magnify LoK's flaws.

For example Aang merging with the Ocean Spirit and becoming that giant deity has never really been explained and there has been nothing that has happened before or after those events that suggest similar abilities. Likewise I found Katara's becoming a water bending master and Aang's ability to learn the three elements, master the avatar state and enter the spirit world for the first time all in three months to be ridiculous given how everyone else in the series outside of the main characters took a considerable more amount of time and effort. However, what ATLA did much better than Korra about was how they wrote it so that people were able to accept these things. Unlike how Korra was able to get airbending, avatar state, etc.

The ocean spirit thing was something like it, but it doesn't break any established rules within the universe and makes sense in its context. As for why they didn't make use of it afterwards, why would they? Aang doesn't want to not be in control and great elemental spirits don't just fall out of the sky. And there is also the fact that what is happening isn't really a good thing. The Ocean Spirit might be targeting the fire nation and that's convienent, but the whole world is going to be fucked up because it lost it's partner, making them all dead whether the fire nation bites it first or not. And the only way to fix this was to have another character lose her life in the process. There was a major cost to the ocean spirit coming out and helping and yet another major cost to making it go away. As for Aang, mastering everything fast makes sense as he's technically done it several thousand times before, and even by the end, he hasn't really mastered any of the other elements, he just got pretty good at them. The show says as much. It also didn't happen in 3 months, but in a year.

I will agree that there are some things that strain credibility in TLA, but even the worst of TLA is far better established and handled than what LoK does. For the first 2 seasons, I struggled to think of any single thing that LoK did better than or even as good as TLA. We don't gloss over TLA's flaws or magnify LoK's, TLA is just really is in a league that far apart from it where even it's most major failures outshine the best of LoK.
 
I know there is a real world aspect to its but it doesn't make it any less dumb. Communities, hierarchies and organization is an integral part of being human.

They can achieve their goals and still have communities and hierarchies and what not; Zaheer is trying to dismantle nation states and governments, not every part of human structure.

I'd imagine, as an airbender and follower of their teachings, he would prefer humanity organized similar to the old airbenders, largely nomadic and organized into small geographical units without centralized leadership
 
Used to watch Doug Walker's TLA and LoK reviews, but my goodness. He and Rob feed into each other's misinformation to an absurd extent. "The lava guy's a firebender"? Really? Not that it can get much worse than "They turned Azula's fire blue for the finale, what a retcon..." "No no no, they turned it blue because that means it's colder and weaker!"
 
Used to watch Doug Walker's TLA and LoK reviews, but my goodness. He and Rob feed into each other's misinformation to an absurd extent. "The lava guy's a firebender"? Really? Not that it can get much worse than "They turned Azula's fire blue for the finale, what a retcon..." "No no no, they turned it blue because that means it's colder and weaker!"

yeah, those guys aren't the sharpest knives in the crayon box.
 
...

T_T

Please tell me you're lying that they said this.

tumblr-lmpfj6rjab1qcl9odco.gif


Completely genuine (if paraphrased) statements. Just like Rob attaching himself like a cancer to the TLA reviews and immediately telling Doug that "it's pronounced SOAK-a" among other things.
 
lol everyone can go to the spirit realm except tenzin.

And Im not sure what the plan is here. Team avatar plus metal bending army couldnt take on Zaheer. And they think they can take him... why?
 
Yeah, I definitely enjoyed his reviews far more when his moronic brother wasn't involved. I liked seeing to the thoughts and opinions of Doug Walker, not Doug Walker's random brother.
 
Completely genuine (if paraphrased) statements. Just like Rob attaching himself like a cancer to the TLA reviews and immediately telling Doug that "it's pronounced SOAK-a" among other things.

I could never comprehend how they can mispronounce the names. They hear them. Every episode.

There were certain episodes where the Nostalgia critic used to actually analyze the movie and what it means, and make fun of it along the way. I stopped watching, but I stopped because it just turned into script where all he does is take potshots at a movie.

As far as TGWTG goes, the best people I've seen are ToddintheShadows and JesuOtaku, who actually analyze the material they review and are quite good at it. I'm not even big into music, but Todd provides insightful commentary as well as humor. Spoony kind of straddles the line between genuine review and just trying to make jokes, but if nothing else, I think he's the funniest guy out of TGWTG. iirc, he was considering at one point reviewing the avatar series, but never got around to it I guess.

But yeah, I watched a good part of their reviews on TLA. Sometimes they made good points, but it's ridiculous how much obvious stuff they miss.
 
This season has been really great so far. I hope they are able to keep it up. Think it helps that there is very little romance to this season, so it's not bogged down.
 
I could never comprehend how they can mispronounce the names. They hear them. Every episode.

I mean, I can understand when Doug mispronounced "Suki"; by that point she only appeared once. But because of the comments backlash to that, he was desensitized to it by the point Rob convinced him of "Earoh", "Soak-a", etc. and dismissed most of it. Way too low-grade reviews for Doug, but I guess his output's been consistently low-grade since Demo Reel and those ridiculous side characters that he shoehorns in every NC video.
 
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