I hate the stock market.

Status
Not open for further replies.
S

SoulPlaya

more money than God
Mini rant coming on. Right now, the S&P 500 is falling about 20 points. This coming after the massive sell off last week that erased all of this year's gains. Yesterday, there was a slight gain, but that always happens after massive sell offs. The pattern goes, massive sell off, slight gain by people looking to get cheap stocks, then massive sell off continues.

What's the point? It's why the market is falling. It's because the economy is getting stronger. Job numbers are improving, earnings are getting better. Investors are worried that this good news might mean that the Fed will continue to slow down the infusion of billions of dollars of essentially free money into the market, and raise interest rates.

Now, who gives a shit, right? Market goes up, market goes down. Except that, we as a society, thought it was a smart idea to tie our retirement abilities into the market. My parents are nearing retirement, and their company some years ago, decided to switch from pensions to private market plans, and now their retirement funds are tied to the market. Yes, over the long term, it'll likely pay off, but now, they have to base when they retire off of some volatile index that can cause their funds to swing by thousands in a day.

Why the fuck would we tie our retirement funds to the damn stock market? Especially, one that takes good news for main street, as bad news for wall street?
 
As of Friday, even despite the sell-off, the S&P was still up 4+% on the year. The Dow had given up the year's gains, but then, it had been trailing the S&P all year as it was. Nasdaq is also still up 4+%. This means both the S&P and Nasdaq are still on pace for a typical gain by the time this year is over.

As much as I obsess over my retirement accounts daily (...), it's still just minor fluctuations that won't matter in the long term. Don't stress it. The market is still be right place to be, whether it's a bull or a bear or a catastrophe (2008-2009).
 
The honest answer to the crux of the OP's question; because we are sincere fucking idiots.

I'm not joking. How we handle money and the well being of people has always been a shortsighted affair, especially with money as the pillar to it.
 
STOP LOOKING AND PLAYING THE STOCK MARKET ON A DAILY BASIS!!!

Purchase stocks for the long term and buy only quality stocks from quality companies. It's simple.
 
tarius1210 said:
STOP LOOKING AND PLAYING THE STOCK MARKET ON A DAILY BASIS!!!

Purchase stocks for the long term and buy only quality stocks from quality companies. It's simple.
Click to expand...

This basically. I would even go farther and say don't even invest in individual stocks. There are these things called ETFs and there are options where you can essentially invest in the entire market, or just the DOW or S&P 500. And you should also have a split stocks:bond ratio based on where you are for retirement planning. Just go look at bogleheads for that.

Day trading with your own money is for chumps. If you like that shit, go to a brokerage and do it with other people's money.
 
tarius1210 said:
STOP LOOKING AND PLAYING THE STOCK MARKET ON A DAILY BASIS!!!

Purchase stocks for the long term and buy only quality stocks from quality companies. It's simple.
Click to expand...

Pretty much...invest in a fund and hold onto that sucker. Downturns in the market are the best times to invest, everything is on sale. The only time you actually lose money is when you sell out and lock in a loss.

If you're nearing retirement, you should not be heavily invested in stocks
 
I've only paid attention tothe stock market for 4 years but the most important thing I've learned is that you can't make sense of it. Just play for the long run and dips like this is actually good for you if you're continually investing in stocks (particular index funds) and a long way off from cashing out.
 
Sectorseven said:
What's a better investment than the S&P 500?
Click to expand...

You can't beat the S&P 500 by that much. Personally, I invest in the entire market through funds like VTI and the Russell 2000, this gives me broad coverage of all of the market for a very low ETF fee (0.07% I think). This is way better than some bullshit dude literally betting my money on black and taking 2% in fund management fees per year.
 
The problem with playing the long term is that some people can't. Some people have to retire in a year or two.

Now, of course, those people shouldn't be playing the stock market, but some have no choice. They were told that this is now their retirement fund.

My issue, isn't the stock market per say, it's that we as a society are growing more and more dependent on it. In the past, it was something that could be left to its devices, and the rest of us wouldn't have to bother. Not anymore.

It's why we institute things like a $700 billion bailout, and continue to pump billions of free money into it. Our retirement funds are held at gun point.
 
rezuth said:
I heard Detroit is great for you. No one ever lost money on real estate.
Click to expand...

Obviously not everywhere. Detroit is a unique situation.

I'm talking California. Modesto, Tracy, Stockton. These cities have been great over the past few years. I'm thinking of buying a home and renting it out.
 
gutter_trash said:
Kevin Flynn: ''The only way to win the game is not to play.''
Click to expand...

kabel said:
Thats stupid. You have to play if you want to win.
If you choose not to play you will never win.
Click to expand...

^This.

You cannot possibly win without playing but you can certainly lose. Even if you yourself chose not to invest in the market, others are doing it on your behalf by investing your money, your pension, your services and sometimes banking on your purchasing power.
 
m_shortpants said:
Obviously not everywhere. Detroit is a unique situation.

I'm talking California. Modesto, Tracy, Stockton. These cities have been great over the past few years. I'm thinking of buying a home and renting it out.
Click to expand...

What if I told you that a lot of that real estate investments you are talking about would not be possible without the market "helping" out in the form of RMBS, CDS or CDO securities.
 
m_shortpants said:
Obviously not everywhere. Detroit is a unique situation.

I'm talking California. Modesto, Tracy, Stockton. These cities have been great over the past few years. I'm thinking of buying a home and renting it out.
Click to expand...

It's the same as with the stock market. You gotta know when to get out, they won't just climb in price for an infinity.
 
SoulPlaya said:
Mini rant coming on. Right now, the S&P 500 is falling about 20 points. This coming after the massive sell off last week that erased all of this year's gains. Yesterday, there was a slight gain, but that always happens after massive sell offs. The pattern goes, massive sell off, slight gain by people looking to get cheap stocks, then massive sell off continues.

What's the point? It's why the market is falling. It's because the economy is getting stronger. Job numbers are improving, earnings are getting better. Investors are worried that this good news might mean that the Fed will continue to slow down the infusion of billions of dollars of essentially free money into the market, and raise interest rates.

Now, who gives a shit, right? Market goes up, market goes down. Except that, we as a society, thought it was a smart idea to tie our retirement abilities into the market. My parents are nearing retirement, and their company some years ago, decided to switch from pensions to private market plans, and now their retirement funds are tied to the market. Yes, over the long term, it'll likely pay off, but now, they have to base when they retire off of some volatile index that can cause their funds to swing by thousands in a day.

Why the fuck would we tie our retirement funds to the damn stock market? Especially, one that takes good news for main street, as bad news for wall street?
Click to expand...

There is a reason that as you approach retirement you are supposed to move your investments from volatile investments to non-volatile investments. If they are in their 60s (nearing retirement) they should have less than 30% of their portfolio in actual stocks unless they are blue chips. That would mean only 40% of their portfolio would be effected by this sort of volatility, and that 40% can be left alone for a point when the market is doing well and they can then liquidate it. Long story short, tying retirement funds to the stock market isn't dumb. It's just dumb to not diversify properly.
 
Your problem is that you're seeing the stock market as the economic indicator, which it isn't. The stock market has been strong to very strong for 3 years, but up until the last 3 months, the labor market has been complete shit and the economy has been very slow to recover. The stock market can be an economic indicator but it is not the economic indicator.

We will probably very likely see the stock market low it's strong growth when interest rates are increased and easing is cut back. The reason these two things will happen will be to balance the risk of inflation and because the economy does not need the easing, both of which are good economic indicators, but not necessarily good for the market.

Now, who gives a shit, right? Market goes up, market goes down. Except that, we as a society, thought it was a smart idea to tie our retirement abilities into the market. My parents are nearing retirement, and their company some years ago, decided to switch from pensions to private market plans, and now their retirement funds are tied to the market. Yes, over the long term, it'll likely pay off, but now, they have to base when they retire off of some volatile index that can cause their funds to swing by thousands in a day.
Click to expand...

Your parents should be happier than pigs in shit if their employers decided to switch to private market retirement plans at any point in the last 5 years. Their portfolios even in conservative plans would have basically doubled since 2009. It's been one of the biggest short term gains in decades. If your parents are near retirement, as in, planning to retire in the next couple years and their portfolio is at a comfortable point right now, then they should switch to conservative investment plans with little opportunity for growth and little opportunity for decline. Your parents shouldn't have large percentages of their investments in stocks at all at this point in their lives.
 
Think long term bro... I got burned hard in 2000 and 2008.. didn't sell, it all came back... It always comes back....................................................
.
Here is a graph of the last 100 years. See a trend?
djia1900s.png
 
rezuth said:
It's the same as with the stock market. You gotta know when to get out, they won't just climb in price for an infinity.
Click to expand...

You are penalized for getting out early (401Ks), and there are limits placed on the number of fund transfers you perform, as well as the $ amount.
 
We're still up 34% since the beginning of 2013.
At least 130% since the 2008 lows.
We haven't had a typical 10% correction, let alone a bear market, since June 2012.

We're less than 3% from all time highs.

Perspective, man.
 
I'm 20 and a working student, know a little bit about the stock market, but have never touched it. Where and how much should I invest? Index funds and mutual funds probably? What percentage of my monthly income should I be putting towards this?
 
Well, yes, the market does go up and down. Historically (over, I don't know, from 1975 until this year), the S&P 500 has an annualized return of about 12%. That's really good. A $50,000 investment at that rate, and no further investment at all, left alone for 30 years until retirement will give you 1.7 million dollars.

Buy stock wisely and don't sell it for decades. There are strategies that allow you to benefit from selling stocks (value-averaging), but there is no strategy that benefits from selling a stock because the market is having a bad day.
 
NotBacon said:
I'm 20 and a working student, know a little bit about the stock market, but have never touched it. Where and how much should I invest? Index funds and mutual funds probably? What percentage of my monthly income should I be putting towards this?
Click to expand...

First you need to have 6-12 months worth of expenses in cash. The next thing you need to do is pay down any outstanding high interest debt you currently have. After that you should max out any tax-havens such as 401k or IRAs that are available to you. For an IRA this is typically $5000. If you have any money to work with after that consider yourself incredibly lucky.
 
AbortedWalrusFetus said:
There is a reason that as you approach retirement you are supposed to move your investments from volatile investments to non-volatile investments. If they are in their 60s (nearing retirement) they should have less than 30% of their portfolio in actual stocks unless they are blue chips. That would mean only 40% of their portfolio would be effected by this sort of volatility, and that 40% can be left alone for a point when the market is doing well and they can then liquidate it. Long story short, tying retirement funds to the stock market isn't dumb. It's just dumb to not diversify properly.
Click to expand...
They have diversified. They have them in conservative funds.
 
SoulPlaya said:
Now, of course, those people shouldn't be playing the stock market, but some have no choice. .
Click to expand...

Not all stock is the same, a fun can be diversified into all kinds of stuff. Your parent's retirement does not hinge on the success of the WWE Network.
 
ReAxion said:
Being able to build a retirement fund in a year or two would be great but where can do you that and can I sign up?
Click to expand...
They switched years ago. My point is that the stock market, in the long run, seems to pay off, but there are major down times, where money is lost. I know people who were planning on retiring in 2008 that are only now able to do so, based on their investments, which were held in conservative funds. That isn't right. People shouldn't have to plan their retirements based on market fluctuation.
 
The market can go up and down radically in a day, ignore it and look at the long term.

If you look at the daily and freak out you will ruin yourself.

Edit: Actually I'm tracking the S&P right now because I have a decent-ish savings fund I haven't touched in a while that I'm about to switch over--a down turn would be just the right moment.
 
NotBacon said:
I'm 20 and a working student, know a little bit about the stock market, but have never touched it. Where and how much should I invest? Index funds and mutual funds probably? What percentage of my monthly income should I be putting towards this?
Click to expand...

There's a whole topic about it here: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=749978

My own suggestion is to save 15% if you can and put it in index funds. If you want to retire early, start being frugal hardcore. There's a whole site, Mr. Money Mustache, devoted to that kind of mindset. I like my conveniences too much to give them up for early retirement, but I think his ideas have merit.
 
SoulPlaya said:
Mini rant coming on. Right now, the S&P 500 is falling about 20 points. This coming after the massive sell off last week that erased all of this year's gains. Yesterday, there was a slight gain, but that always happens after massive sell offs. The pattern goes, massive sell off, slight gain by people looking to get cheap stocks, then massive sell off continues.

What's the point? It's why the market is falling. It's because the economy is getting stronger. Job numbers are improving, earnings are getting better. Investors are worried that this good news might mean that the Fed will continue to slow down the infusion of billions of dollars of essentially free money into the market, and raise interest rates.

Now, who gives a shit, right? Market goes up, market goes down. Except that, we as a society, thought it was a smart idea to tie our retirement abilities into the market. My parents are nearing retirement, and their company some years ago, decided to switch from pensions to private market plans, and now their retirement funds are tied to the market. Yes, over the long term, it'll likely pay off, but now, they have to base when they retire off of some volatile index that can cause their funds to swing by thousands in a day.

Why the fuck would we tie our retirement funds to the damn stock market? Especially, one that takes good news for main street, as bad news for wall street?
Click to expand...

How has your portfolio been affected? Are you diversifying your investments properly?
 
SoulPlaya said:
Why the fuck would we tie our retirement funds to the damn stock market? Especially, one that takes good news for main street, as bad news for wall street?
Click to expand...
You can always try your luck in fixed income, commodities, money market, forex... you're not techincally limited to stocks.
 
SoulPlaya said:
They switched years ago. My point is that the stock market, in the long run, seems to pay off, but there are major down times, where money is lost. I know people who were planning on retiring in 2008 that are only now able to do so, based on their investments, which were held in conservative funds. That isn't right. People shouldn't have to plan their retirements based on market fluctuation.
Click to expand...

Do they not have the option to move more of their funds to bonds instead of stocks? Or maybe transfer them completely to something like an annuity?
 
That's only part of the story. Certainly there is selling because less free money but on the other hand there certainly is real concern there could be a downturn just as the free money dries up (not because of it).
 
The market is fine long term. Another strategy is to contribute to your retirement every year. That way you're averaging out the ups and downs over time.

But a real portfolio should be better diversified. Some combination of equities (a mix of small/mid/large cap in varying industries), fixed income (a mix of muni's, blue chips, again across industries), and a small portion of long term strategies on international equities, commodities like metals, forex etc to balance out your risk profile (beta).

Long term investing is easy if you don't touch your money before the long term...

SoulPlaya said:
If they did that, they would get minimal growth.
Click to expand...

what kind of growth? given the tax incentives on municipals they should be part of any portfolio. What kind of returns are you expecting here?
 
m_shortpants said:
The only people/entities who win the stock market are the giant banks and funds.

I'd rather invest in real estate myself.
Click to expand...
"When there is blood on the streets, buy property"

Quote above applies to general stock purchasing priciples as well. My veins are ice cold. Since we saw that dow can crack 17000, its best to buy more stocks right now. Thank me later.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Nvidia Stock Recovering!!
2
56
2K
Zathalus replied
MCU, I hate the damn TVA stuff.
42
3K
ManaByte replied
Gifs that you hate…
2
66
3K
XXL replied
I fucking hate computers now.
2
66
4K
StueyDuck replied
words you hate??
2 3 4 5 6
257
10K
bad guy replied
Top Bottom