Subliminal
Member
holy shit, only americans could make queuing up at a post office a race thing.
When Life Hacking Is Really White Privilege
- Thread starter Jado
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Here you go, white and black guy trying to just go about life, identical scenarios:
True Colors - Racial Discrimination in Everyday Life 1/2
True Colors - Racial Discrimination in Everyday Life 2/2
Originally broadcast on ABC's Prime time live, Sept. 26, 1991
^This is irrelevant, as many minorities will tell you that things have not changed much.
Video description:
Documentary on the "nature of today's prejudices." Follows two men (equal in all measurable aspects, except skin color) as they particpate in a variety of "everyday" life interactions and situations to test levels of prejudice based on skin colors. Shows how two young men in St. Louis, one white, one black, but otherwise similar in background, appearance, etc., are treated differently in various situations as they go about shopping, applying for work, and looking for rental housing.
In the 1960s, black Americans were promised that this country would not judge people by the color of the their skin. Three decades later, this video investigates situations in which blacks and whites continue to be treated differently.
Video raises the question of the relation between discrimination in everyday social exchanges and what sociology calls "structural racism," the systematic exclusion of people of color from full access to social resources. Where does this program root the problem? In the individual bias of a few people? Or are individuals expressions of a society based on white privilege? Does everyone who identifies as white have a stake in upholding the racial hierarchy with its tendency for white preferential treatment? On the other hand, what responsibility do European Americans have for eliminating or helping to eliminate racial preference? How would some of the problems indicated in the film be addressed or remedied?
Moff
Member
I fail to understand how this spezific behavior needs to be tied to race problems?
now I absolutely understand that because of racism against black people in the US, these "life hacks" cant be done as easily by black people. but why do you need to tie these two together? arent they just two completely different issues? I think the quoted forest whitaker case shows that black people cant even buy something witthout being harrassed. but you dont say buying yogurt is a white privilege because of this. it just shows profound problems in US society.
I live in a country with very few black people, some people act like assholes like this guy, yes. but I dont see how anyone could say thats a "white prilivege" where I live, still some people do it, and probably not more or less than in the US, but thats pure speculation. and I think with some of these things, women might even get away easier, especially the line cutting thing is something my mother has done all her life.
just asking, maybe I'm missing something.
now I absolutely understand that because of racism against black people in the US, these "life hacks" cant be done as easily by black people. but why do you need to tie these two together? arent they just two completely different issues? I think the quoted forest whitaker case shows that black people cant even buy something witthout being harrassed. but you dont say buying yogurt is a white privilege because of this. it just shows profound problems in US society.
I live in a country with very few black people, some people act like assholes like this guy, yes. but I dont see how anyone could say thats a "white prilivege" where I live, still some people do it, and probably not more or less than in the US, but thats pure speculation. and I think with some of these things, women might even get away easier, especially the line cutting thing is something my mother has done all her life.
just asking, maybe I'm missing something.
People haven't been bitching about the "life hack" angle for about 50 posts prior to yours. I think it's time to let it go and stop derailing your own thread.
teruterubozu
Member
Or a situation that needs to be "hacked". We can't even speak English anymore.
MidgarBlowedUp
Member
Well, I'm not sure it's just because he was white, but I'm sure being a rich douche bag was also a large part of it. I'm not saying I don't get the article, but sometimes I think people are too quick to blame race and gender. I mean, the underlying reason this guy is a douche bag isn't because of his skin color. I'm white, and I don't do shit like that.
Living life with this kind of attitude must make for an ugly world. There have been times where I was quite certain race played a factor or THE factor in a white person getting some sort of "life hack" over myself. It sucks and it's not fair. Every person should be given the right to be looked at as an individual, and I doubt we'll ever get there given the way humans are innately. But I do not see any good out of trying to sniff out every potential case of white privilege. Call a spade a spade when it is obvious, but when I'm in doubt if something is a case of white privilege, I try not to assume it is. Racism may always exist, but that doesn't mean you have to let it control your life so much. Fight racism, but don't let it dominate your life.
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
You obviously know exactly what happened, I don't need to explain it. I am sure its just racist old me.
You should make a separate thread about it. Not joking.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
chaobreaker
Member
Must be great not having to deal with institutionalised discrimination in your country, huh?
My best friend's dad used to do shit like this, he could sell a freezer full of Popsicles to a diabetic polar bear. I never saw him do it maliciously but if there was a way to game the system or skip a queue he found it. That includes eating at the buffet for someone else's party or getting discounts on nearly everything. My favorite was when someone would call him on it and he would pretend that he either didn't speak English or that he wasn't used to how things were done in the United States. My impression growing up was that fully white people were afraid to just break rules and pretend they belonged places they weren't supposed to be. Interesting how differing perspective and life experiences can radically alter two perceptions of similar behavior.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Which you clearly read in its entirety.
I feel like the negative reactions to articles like these and the threads made about them come from one of two places; discomfort with systemic inequality being brought to someone's attention, and anger from the behavior of someone's in-group association being brought into question.
For anyone living in America, it shouldn't be necessary for #notallwhitepeople to come up in these discussions. The country was founded and nurtured by inequality. Individual attitudes have improved (although some of that is just suppression to a now-socially acceptable level), but over 500 years of shaky interactions are still there.
And yes, it's not always about race, it's often about class too, but those powers often combine.
User 73706
Banned
Yeah, I know, right? Can't believe they're so far behind Europe in cultural tolerance. Well, unless you're Muslim.
Or that not-so-great shade of middle-easternly brown.
Or it's tradition.
Or you're American.
But hey, semantics.
We're discussing the article in OP, which is poorly argued, poorly written garbage. The actual problem is that the article is so poorly thought out that multiple people in this thread have taken multiple meanings from it. It's a "everyone base your own opinions on your own facts" discussion.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Chie Satonaka
Member
I don't see a problem with using anecdotal evidence when it's used in conjunction with studies that prove that there are inherant biases in the way people react to different groups of people.
Women of all races are treated differently then men. Black men are treated differently than white ones. Openly gay men are treated differently than both of those. One shouldn't have to throw down 100 studies to reinforce these positions every single time they write an article about white privilege.
What would you say the alternative should be?
Which parts are poorly argued and poorly written? Point them out. Maybe we can clear up any confusion you're having.
I read the info in the op which was enough. That situation had nothing to do with being white, it was just some dumbass. There are idiots in every race.
D
Deleted member 47027
Unconfirmed Member
I think if you read the actual article you'll understand
Circle Jerk
Member
her example of the post office had 0 institutionalized racism. Literally all that happened was someone was a dick and got rebuffed. No one was discriminated against. No one got anything or was refused anything because of skin colour. It is a pretty stupid way to open an article.
timetokill
Banned
It's funny that the post office example was used when it's just an asshole being an asshole and not getting anything for it. Privilege was useless.
The rest of the article is decent, other than the bizarre use of "life hacks" to describe things. There's definitely white privilege, but the article as a whole sort of obfuscates its point by equating them to life hacks. As an article about privilege it's okay I guess?
On the other hand, a lot of it could also be confidence + authoritative tone. If you sound confident and authoritative people are inclined to do what you want/ask or not bother you. This goes for everyone, though obviously more successfully for whites, it's still a universally helpful quality when you're trying to bend the rules.
The rest of the article is decent, other than the bizarre use of "life hacks" to describe things. There's definitely white privilege, but the article as a whole sort of obfuscates its point by equating them to life hacks. As an article about privilege it's okay I guess?
On the other hand, a lot of it could also be confidence + authoritative tone. If you sound confident and authoritative people are inclined to do what you want/ask or not bother you. This goes for everyone, though obviously more successfully for whites, it's still a universally helpful quality when you're trying to bend the rules.
So a number of you have insisted that it's just "asshole" behavior getting people ahead in life and that racism plays little or no part here. None of you have anything to say about this contradicting that? Point being that a black person would be far less likely to get away with similar behavior done by a white man -- whether it's acting like an asshole to get into an event uninvited, or simply going through life trying to get a job and applying to rent an apartment.
What European country are you from? And it's not about the specific institution of post offices discriminating against specific people, but the general attitude, prejudices, and treatment of different people throughout all of society that we're talking about.
I'm pretty fucking sure if you were a Brown-skinned Fella attempting to life hack shit here in Denmark, you'd be labelled as "another Muslim immigrant thug or the like, who didn't appreciate good ol' national culture with no respect for homegrown values" whereas white dudes would simply be considered individuals being assholes.
Same shit goes for France, Holland, Britain, Germany, Poland, Switzerand, Austria, and other EU countries with clear racial discrimination.
Circle Jerk
Member
im from the european country of canada
And literally none of what you said after had anything to do with what I was talking about- that the opening example she gives is not an example of privilege. If a minority did it I'd think the same thing. Not everyone has the same weird issues with race that you very clearly do.
It was a real life example of someone showing a real sense of entitlement to privilege. It doesn't necessarily matter that they were turned down; the point they are making is that they believe a large reason why the guy even attempted to skip 18 people was because he was a white male.
Their suggestion is that this boldness is learned behavior from privilege, meaning they only do it because they have been successful in the past. And of course that the main reason they've had success and continue to be so bold is that they are a white male.
You don't have to agree; but their point isn't that 100% of the time it works.
The argument against their point seams to be "that's just some asshole, there are assholes of all races!" and that is also an over simplification. It's about the overall variance in people's experiences. And there's a whole lot of data that suggests it's the "white male assholes" who actually "win favor" the most.
User 73706
Banned
Quebec or Canada, tho
Article would have been infinitely more effective if the author had actually tried these "hacks" and catalogued their experiences.
Count Dookkake
Member
Hack Like Me.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
I work a job where I have to go to other businesses and enter their "employees only" areas nearly every day. (but sometimes multiple locations per day) As a reasonably good-looking white guy, I am only questioned (at all) about why I'm there about 0.4% of the time.
Meanwhile, for my Middle Eastern boss it's about 25%.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
+1. Life is life, if you want happiness you gotta go find it. People will always be dicks, but that doesn't have to turn you into a pessimist. Don't always assume the worst, and don't get so caught up in how people perceive you and what you do (of course, don't intentionally be an asshole either).
People are looking at this from an angle of "why can't minorities get away with being assholes?" when the real question should be "who the hell is stupid enough to want to be an asshole in the first place?".
I'll give that a watch some time, but I can answer some of those questions presented, immediately.
"Does everyone who identifies as white have a stake in upholding the racial hierarchy with its tendency for white preferential treatment?"
No, just the ones who control political, news and media affairs that continue to perpetuate the feeling of entitlement onto more impressionable whites.
And the ones who buy into the idea of privilege as a boon, of course.
"what responsibility do European Americans have for eliminating or helping to eliminate racial preference?"
Who says it's just European Americans who play a hand in establishing racial preference?
The problem is assuming it's a strictly black/white thing; other minorities may not play as big a hand but rest assured, they do play a hand. This is everyone's responsibility.
"How would some of the problems indicated in the film be addressed or remedied?"
1: Bring more balanced representation of diversity in popular forms of media
2: Reform the education system
3: Reform the Democrat and Republican political parties
4: Reform stupid drug enforcement laws
5: Get rid of private prisons
6: Allot monetary reparations for all individuals unreasonably sentenced to prison for small offenses, and restore all citizen rights
7: Make more of an effort to teach about minority history rather than just in specific months.
8: Just generally be a decent person to other people.
BTW that video is over 20 years old; I'm sure some of the things it brings up are outdated/not relevant today but I guess I'll find out when I take time to watch it.
NEOPARADIGM
Banned
For me it's more like the bolded is the only point that ever gets made in these threads, and basically any "discussion" beyond it is reserved for jumping down proverbial throats and waiting for whitey to make a bannable or gif-worthy mistake. "White people should just shut up and 'learn something' because systemic racism is real thing" - that's pretty much the line of thought that "wins" these threads over and over. Specifics and grey areas (which are always more interesting, and is why people are drawn to them and want to comment accordingly) go largely unnoticed or mocked because they're "beside the point" or "anecdotal."
#notallwhitepeople is a thing because white people get offended when you lump them into categories of whatever variety and presume to know something about them based on their skin color, which is precisely among the things a modern progressive leftist should not be doing, so there's a rift there when wanting to talk about "white people" in a generalized way, at least in my mind. I don't want to generalize whites any more than I want to generalize anyone else. I guess it's different for others.
not psycho
Member
It's a nightmare going to the post office when everyone there is white. Each new person to enter immediately cuts to the front of the line, only to be cut in front of by the next person. The line actually moves backward instead of forward. Eventually an equilibrium is reached, and the entire lines moves in a circle, nobody ever accomplishing what they came there for. It's like some kind of bizarre dance.
jhmtehgamr20xx
Banned
What the hell are you talking about? My local post office doesn't have any of that going on, and I (technically) live in the South.
Sounds like you're just in a town full of assholes.
I'm having a very hard time understanding this article. Line of black people at the POST OFFICE, white guy comes in, doesnt want to wait in line, goes to front, gets told to go to back, "how dare this white man try and use his skin colour to get ahead of me in this situation!".
WHAT???
WHAT???
AlteredBeast
Fork 'em, Sparky!
I hope you are being sarcastic, because he obviously is.
User 73706
Banned
Read the entire article.
The problem is that it's just a bullshit assumption made truth because Check Your Privilege. The entire article and concept is based on the idea that everything a white person tries to do will succeed because racism and everything everybody else tries to do will fail because racism.
If you lined up 50 people and had them try the exact same thing (a mix of all colors, genders, sexual orientations, whatever) you might have some interesting data to work with. I'd say most people will fail. I'd say a white male with no charisma will succeed less than a black male that has charisma. And a small, meek person will succeed less than somebody that is larger and more intimidating, race aside. Who knows.
There are a lot of factors to consider, and racism in the world is real. But this dumb fucking trend of deciding that everything happens because of race is ridiculous and based on literally no truth. The author has no idea how much of the other author's "success" is based on race and made no attempt to find out.
I wonder why anybody thinks there's a point in declaring that we have no agency in our success and everything is driven by race rather than apply critical thought and actually work on addressing the problems that you see.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
What is this compulsion so many people have to comment having only read a small piece of the article
There is no shortage of people on GAF willing to offer themselves on that particular altar, just as there is no shortage of people completely unaware of privilege. I won't deny that there are some posters who try to shout others down and/or kill discussion, but that goes both ways, i.e. racism being waved of as "anecdotal" or "outliers."
Also, Altucher himself is the main one talking about white people in the article (the WHOLE article, that is)
There is no shortage of people on GAF willing to offer themselves on that particular altar, just as there is no shortage of people completely unaware of privilege. I won't deny that there are some posters who try to shout others down and/or kill discussion, but that goes both ways, i.e. racism being waved of as "anecdotal" or "outliers."
Also, Altucher himself is the main one talking about white people in the article (the WHOLE article, that is)
Schweinehund
Member
I'm sure white people get a way with more assholish stuff, but I wish I could expunge the term Life Hacking from existence.
I dont think you're understanding the article properly. Read mumei's recap if you're still out of the loop.
Also, I thought Canada wasn't exactly free of racism or discrimination (although it fares incredibly well if not the best compared to other Western countries). There's stuff like the aboriginals as well as the treatment of people with African descent. At least that's what I've read and heard.
Thanks, that's a good bulleted list. I'm always for more diversity in media as a means of dispelling stereotypes and exposing people to others who look different but aren't any less trustworthy.
As for the video, I've seen it a couple of times and all of it is basic stuff that still remains relevant today.
These displays where I work show business and general news items plus targeted ads. One is about a hotline for reporting racially-based housing discrimination. The subway trains had similar print ads not that long ago. Minorities still regularly complain about hiring discrimination and the huge disparity in who tends to get promoted (white men) in office settings, despite equally or better qualified minorities. Can't find it now but had a story link about a black woman who was the most qualified for a big promotion in an IT setting but overlooked for a far less experienced man; proved without a doubt in court and won a big settlement.
I've heard stories about people who give no hint of their ethnic background on an application or call interview, everything is going fantastic -- but then meeting in person and seeing the undeniable look of surprise in hiring manager's eyes before getting a cold shoulder the entire meeting and finally getting the old "we'll keep you in touch." The "identical resumes except ethnic names" studies back this up.
http://bossip.com/865650/fawk-you-p...er-who-gave-her-promotion-to-white-co-worker/
Another:
Driven but denied: Four women say Madison Metro discriminates in its promotion practices
These are not rare or isolated incidents.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I think you're looking for another thread
Post office? More like equality office, am I right?I'm white and people treat me like shit at the post office.
I'm white and people treat me like shit at the post office.
The post office and the dmv have got to be two of the most unpleasant places on earth.
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