I saw it before you edited. Only half the sentence was tagged.
I was playing with fire even checking this thread. So ultimately I blame myself.
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Legend of Korra Book 3: Change |OT| SCHEDULEBENDING
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I saw it before you edited. Only half the sentence was tagged.
I was playing with fire even checking this thread. So ultimately I blame myself.
I usually edit my posts. =/
Anyways, I'm not saying I don't understand how they could do this with Zaheer. But I would hate it in the context of the scene we saw + just because it's already been done with Aang. I dunno. Meh. I hope not. But you guys are probably right.
I'm not saying you're wrong at all.
I'm just saying that Zaheer, while not a hypocrite, has edge's past the perimeter's of his anarchistic philosophy when he decides that a person (in this case, the Earth Queen) is the enemy, rather than the system. The distinction between the two is very meaningful.
And I'm not saying Zaheer is a lesser character for making this mistake, unlike Amon. Amon was a straight up hypocrite, who was only using the equalist agenda to cover his own. Zaheer mostly follows within the boundaries of his cause, but makes human mistakes, because it's much easier to vilify a person than constantly keep in mind that it is a system, invisible, untouchable, and abstract, that is the real evil he is against.
I wouldn't mind if they explored this a bit, but they simply haven't set it up. It would have been cool if Korra had, at some point in the series, questioned Aang's decision to let the fire lord live. Then Zaheer's choices here would be a meaningful thing for her to respond to. As it is, I don't even know if Korra would even care if he killed the earth queen. Not just because she was a jerk, but I'm not sure if she's bothered by death in general. The protagonists feelings are very important in matters like these. As it is, I'm ambivalent whether they have him kill her or not. It's not like Korra is going to learn anything from it either way.
And I'm not saying Zaheer is a lesser character for making this mistake, unlike Amon. Amon was a straight up hypocrite, who was only using the equalist agenda to cover his own. Zaheer mostly follows within the boundaries of his cause, but makes human mistakes, because it's much easier to vilify a person than constantly keep in mind that it is a system, invisible, untouchable, and abstract, that is the real evil he is against.
I wouldn't mind if they explored this a bit, but they simply haven't set it up. It would have been cool if Korra had, at some point in the series, questioned Aang's decision to let the fire lord live. Then Zaheer's choices here would be a meaningful thing for her to respond to. As it is, I don't even know if Korra would even care if he killed the earth queen. Not just because she was a jerk, but I'm not sure if she's bothered by death in general. The protagonists feelings are very important in matters like these. As it is, I'm ambivalent whether they have him kill her or not. It's not like Korra is going to learn anything from it either way.
tkscz
Member
Whoa now, two jerks?
Korra was unable to bend what so ever, and she didn't expect Asami to get out of her chains.
also
zaheer not being a murderer makes it easier for him (and the writers) to challenge and potentially grow korra. it's easy for the good guy to look at the outright bad guy and say "you're wrong because you murdered xyz!" and ignore everything else. zaheer not killing the earth queen gives him a better chance of convincing korra that he is right, and hopefully that causes korra to actually think about how she's supposed to bring balance to the world.
that might be giving the writers too much credit though, cause they totes dropped the ball on this front with amon. maybe they learned from their mistake
that might be giving the writers too much credit though, cause they totes dropped the ball on this front with amon. maybe they learned from their mistake
Well, if they didn't do the fake out, I would have liked this more. I'm also extremely weary seeing as this is a show that refuses to ever use violence. And honestly, I find that silly. So to have another main character also fall into this path. Boooooo.
But I agree with what you and Veelk are saying in terms of philosophy, and how it would make Zaheer a gray/complex character (especially with how Korra deals with him).
But I agree with what you and Veelk are saying in terms of philosophy, and how it would make Zaheer a gray/complex character (especially with how Korra deals with him).
Ah that's fair. That was an accident and I didn't think anyone would see it cause it was there for like 10 seconds. That's my bad, sorry dude.
tkscz
Member
That would make more since if
it were someone like Lyn or Tenzin who was killed, or even the president, who just wanted what was best for the city. But the earth queen herself was far more evil than Zaheer. The earth queen was willing to steal the freedom of a race that was long gone in order to make an army and rule the entire earth kingdom (if she were to just stop there). This might make for an even better argument for whether or not he's good or evil.
m_shortpants
Member
I caved. HOLY SHIT.
Holy suffocating bending. I can't believe they showed Zaheer kill her, if that's what he did. Damn. That was a great episode.
Shit happens, sall good.
Yeah it was pretty damned brutal the way her eyes started getting bloodshot from lack of air and the gasping
Wonder how they convinced Nick to let them doing this as it sure pushed the TV-7 rating
Wonder how they convinced Nick to let them doing this as it sure pushed the TV-7 rating
kind of random, but i do find it interesting how ming-hua was quick to use violence on the radio guy while zaheer had to remind her that they're doing what they're doing for people like him. makes me wonder how much the rest of the red lotus buy into zaheer's philosophy. and i guess the radio guy is now out of a job so i hope he enjoys his freedom
well i don't think anyone deserves to die, or more accurately, i don't think anyone should have the power to kill someone. so while killing a decent person like the president would make him an outright evil bad guy, i think zaheer killing a bad person like the earth queen would too. but you're right, him trying to convince korra that killing the earth queen was a necessity could also lead to character growth on the part of korra. though i think that might boil down to "your methods are wrong" and not "your ideals are wrong", and i think the argument over ideals is more important. not that methods aren't worth arguing over, of course.
Aaron Strife
Banned
Maybe that's why it's not on TV anymore?
Hidden One
Member
Never noticed that Korra had boob physics and I swear her boobs shrunk after season 1 >_>.
They probably did.
Spoiler discussion:
I have a feeling the Earth Queen isn't dead. She'll end up being alive and get overthrown or something.
Much smaller, and they define them far less.
Where as in season 1 we got these puppies.
People were even commenting how they were happy Korra wasn't a Marvel/DC comic since they'd just have her wear skimpy clothing.
Either way, one of the few step downs that Season 3 has taken.
I'm sure it was more likely to do with its pretty dismal ratings of late, Which Nick is to blame for over its pretty poor handling of the show this season
MidnightCowboy
Member
So, I just remembered that Suyin said having a queen was an outdated concept, just as the Red Lotus thinks...
Phoenician_Viking
Banned
Episode 10
Like
Zaheer is growing on me, and i like how he treats common folk and how he treats royalty. At the very least he is a much better diplomat than Korra, at least in the first part of this episode
Nice setup for Bolin.
Sand shark
The chat between Bolin and the two red lotus members. We know more about their personalities now. There should be more of this.
Did not like
Shoddy work to justify Asami being useful instead of making her useful with her abilities. I hate that. In season one she did great with her own abilities.
How come no one of the old guys did not know red lotus? I mean really they opposed white lotus for a long time. I understand secret society and all, but no one of white lotus asked about what happened to the guy who had different views? People don´t just disappear without people knowing that they went missing, especially in a society like white lotus.
Zaheer is growing on me, and i like how he treats common folk and how he treats royalty. At the very least he is a much better diplomat than Korra, at least in the first part of this episode
Nice setup for Bolin.
Sand shark
The chat between Bolin and the two red lotus members. We know more about their personalities now. There should be more of this.
Did not like
Shoddy work to justify Asami being useful instead of making her useful with her abilities. I hate that. In season one she did great with her own abilities.
How come no one of the old guys did not know red lotus? I mean really they opposed white lotus for a long time. I understand secret society and all, but no one of white lotus asked about what happened to the guy who had different views? People don´t just disappear without people knowing that they went missing, especially in a society like white lotus.
Sometimes I think she forgets she has that ability.
Yeah i'm quite surprised Tonraq didn't know who Red lotus was considering that they tried to kidnap Korra when she was younger
Wonder what explanation White Lotus gave him about the kidnapping attempt on Korra when she was younger
Wonder what explanation White Lotus gave him about the kidnapping attempt on Korra when she was younger
blitzwolf215
Member
Episode is up on Amazon.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
I wonder if all of them can enter the Spirit World at will?
double jump
you haven't lived until a random little kid ask you "how do you make love".
tbh I would love for them to tell a story about an evil avatar.
wish someone else would buy this property and let the writers go ham.
Lord_Byron28
Member
I dont think she has that ability. Aang never showed her how to remove bending just how to grant it. She was also using the avatar state to restore people's bending. Now that her ties to her past lives is gone she also can't access energybending.
IIRC, all avatars inherit all the abilities the previous ones had, they just need to learn how to access it. Besides, they'll deus ex the fuck outta the show if need be.
I wish Disney would.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
I don't think she'd be evil to side with the Red Lotus. Nothing about them is evil. Morally ambiguous at most. Though I do feel like Zaheer keeps the rest of them in check.
No one said they were. Mutually exclusive concepts.
Zaheer was also quick to dispose of Aiwei the second he became a liability. No hesitation. Now I know he technically didn't kill him, but condemning a spirit to eternity in the valley of forgotten whatever is IMO a worse fate than death.
Also IMO
Zaheer was being fake when he told her not to hurt the radio guy. At least to me it seemed fake.
SlowRevolution
Member
I didn't even think the episode was coming out for a couple more hours and there are black bars everywhere. Did they change the release to midnight?
It leaked yesterday morning.
Tal Shiar Agent
Banned
Well the context of his post quoting you implied that he believes that the Red Lotus is evil.
SlowRevolution
Member
good job nick
Duude. I mainlined TLA when Korra got announced specifically because of how much I liked her design. So much disappoint was had in season one.
Asami is the shit though. Best thing to come from that wretched film.
Icyflamez96
Member
Icyflamez96
Member
I actually like the character designs in general for the main cast better than in ATLA
I hate it when amazing character design goes to waste -_-
...Whoa. I mean I'm not going to lie I thought about airbenders suffocating people when they introduced bloodbending but I didn't think they'd actually show it in the show.
All the references to him "taking her out" were pretty funny. "Did the Earth Queen just die?" "It was really unclear".
All the references to him "taking her out" were pretty funny. "Did the Earth Queen just die?" "It was really unclear".
How so? Are you saying Zaheer can't be for a world with freedom, without enacting violence or hurting others if it needs to be done? I get that Zaheer is for everyone having personal freedom, but that doesn't mean he won't be rough with someone if they stand in his way. The very fact that he banished Aiwei to that terrible fate refutes your view point (what about Aiwei's freedom). So at least to me, this moment where Zaheer tells her not to hit him, because he's their brother (or who they are trying to help), kind of came off fake to me. I mean, I think Zaheer meant what he said in the larger scheme of things. But I also feel like he didn't want to put on a bad face for someone (and we've seen that Zaheer knows how to act like he's good in front of others. When he acted for the queen, and even when he infiltrated air island).
But oh well. Seems like a lot of you guys think Zaheer is this pacifist. I'm still not 100% convinced. I agree that overall, he's been pretty pacifist (assuming the earth queen isn't really dead). But there are little things about him, that make me think he's not above being vicious if he has to, to achieve his goals. I still find it crazy how quick he was too dispose of a loyal subordinate. I mean, he was harsh as fuck to Aiwei. He didn't deserve that.
But oh well. Seems like a lot of you guys think Zaheer is this pacifist. I'm still not 100% convinced. I agree that overall, he's been pretty pacifist (assuming the earth queen isn't really dead). But there are little things about him, that make me think he's not above being vicious if he has to, to achieve his goals. I still find it crazy how quick he was too dispose of a loyal subordinate. I mean, he was harsh as fuck to Aiwei. He didn't deserve that.
Zaheer would make for kickass fighting game character
Activates super:
"Let me explain something to you. *hits opponent, traps their head in oxygen bubble*. Freedom isn't something you can give or take... *starts removing oxygen from lungs* to the people of this world, it's just as essential as *pulls out all oxygen* air."
Win Quote: Without freedom there is no life, only.... Darkness.
"Let me explain something to you. *hits opponent, traps their head in oxygen bubble*. Freedom isn't something you can give or take... *starts removing oxygen from lungs* to the people of this world, it's just as essential as *pulls out all oxygen* air."
Win Quote: Without freedom there is no life, only.... Darkness.
Zaheer for Smash Bros
Icyflamez96
Member
Ah well I guess we will see then
LAUGHTREY
Modesty becomes a woman
I hope this is the case. The Red Lotus becoming allies would be awesome.
Ala Zuko. They definitely aren't "evil" in the strictest sense.
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