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[kame-sennin]

Yes.


Poor black people in the ghetto have been beaten down, marginalized, cheated, robbed from, kept uneducated, imprisioned, and murdered for generations by our society. Why should they give one good god damn about a social contract that's a complete lie when it comes to them? White people protest with guns, nothing happens. Black people protest with signs, they get cuffed and booked. What else have desperate people got but lashing out? The Civil Rights Movement was over half a century ago. Fat lot of good it's doing them now.

Everyone likes to talk all loftily about non-violence, and how ignorant people are who don't subscribe to it. But the Civil Rights era was littered with race riots. It's revisionist to presume that all the pressure for social change came solely from the non-violent protest marches, as if the onus was on black people to make a convincing argument that was safe enough for the approval of white people before anything could happen, and that the Montgomery marches finally hit upon the formula that magically opened the golden door. Well, the fact is the Bobby Seales and Malcolm Xs and the justified anger they represented were a vital part of the pressure to get the white power structure to even be inclined to deal with with the non-violent part of the movement.

I know you're trying to make the distracting argument that these looters are just selfish criminals trying to do a smash and grab. Well sure, how the hell do you think that happened? They were born with no future in a place with no hope who are constantly under threat from authority no matter how they behave, people who've never had shit and never will have shit and who are constantly told that they're bad. How are they supposed to see beyond what they can get their hands on next? Things you consider to be low petty crimes are their protest, their disobedience to the rules of the oppressors, it's all they've fucking GOT. We've fucked them and stolen their shit for so long, how can we have the nerve to be shocked and outraged when they finally say fuck it and act the same way?

The argument that riots provide a convenient way to dismiss the problem by whites and therefore it's the fault of the rioters that no progress has been made is as stupid as the argument that feminism blocks progress in equal rights because the name is too excluding. There's no need to cater to the fake concerns of a group that was going to fight you tooth and nail anyway. They would find another excuse. Outrage that people behave like cornered beaten animals is sheer deflection from that fact that this is what we've driven them to. The fact is, we aren't going to have a real conversation about how to fix things with real incentive to implement the solutions without that looming threat of increased violence. And we've been sitting on it pretending the problem had gone away since Reagan got elected.

So yes, this is an anger that has run far too deep, far too wide, and far too long for you to blithely expect to be subsumed in the name of civility, or condemn in the name of personal responsibility. There will be more riots, and until we change things, it's America's fault. We are personally responsible for building a better society where entire classes of people aren't systematically abused. The riots, the vandalism, the looting, that's our collective fucking failure, and the sooner we stop deflecting that responsibility onto our victims, the better.


So shut the fuck up about how bad the rioters are, and start pointing your outrage noise tubes at the Power. You know, THE THING THAT KEEPS MURDERING BLACK KIDS.

I was getting ready to pull the best quotes out of this, but every paragraph is fantastic.

 

[Malyse]

That's not relevant to the point I'm trying to make. Keep reading...



If you want to point out Obama's ancestry in regards to discrimination in this country that's fine, but saying black men can't be born from non black women/non black men or that black men are only of full African heritage is BS.

Got it.

 

[vas_a_morir]

You know sometimes I feel like I just need to change this avatar to a pure hammer and sickle before people realize what perspective I'm posting from. Apparently it's currently too subtle.

It would be cooler if it didn't always result in thugs with guns taking from the rich and then hoarding it and becoming rich themselves. Glorious Socialist revolutionaries living a life of luxury while the poorest worker in the country starves to death.

 

[Mesousa]

That's not relevant to the point I'm trying to make. Keep reading...



If you want to point out Obama's ancestry in regards to discrimination in this country that's fine, but saying black men can't be born from non black women/non black men or that black men are only of full African heritage is BS.

Why is it BS? Because American mulattos are classified erroneously by a Society that does not know better?

That whole mindset comes from a society that views one percent of black blood as tainted, thus making someone less than. It screams of 20th century racism.

 

[poppabk]

Obviously not, but that's not why riots happen. These people live in a system that views them as subhuman, where cops routinely get away with murdering them. What the hell are they supposed to do if the law isn't going to help them?

Routinely? Officer involved fatalities are a pretty rare occurrence, although before we even start talking about cameras on officers, the first thing that we need is comprehensive statistics on officer involved shootings compiled at the federal level, which should be a simple task.
But just looking at the Philadelphia police statistics which they provide online, they had 10 officer involved shootings that ended in death in 2013, for a population of approximately 1.5 million.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

This really isn't the place for it, but suffice to say I believe your impressions are loaded with a whole heap of erroneous info, and arguing about the Electoral College is another topic entirely.

Fine, I'm okay with that. If I'm wrong I'm wrong, but I seriously doubt I'm wrong.

Spoiler

I doubt I'm wrong.

 

[Earthstrike]

Routinely? Officer involved fatalities are a pretty rare occurrence, although before we even start talking about cameras on officers, the first thing that we need is comprehensive statistics on officer involved shootings compiled at the federal level, which should be a simple task.
But just looking at the Philadelphia police statistics which they provide online, they had 10 officer involved shootings that ended in death in 2013, for a population of approximately 1.5 million.

And how does that number compare to other nations?

 

[JoeInky]

Routinely? Officer involved fatalities are a pretty rare occurrence, although before we even start talking about cameras on officers, the first thing that we need is comprehensive statistics on officer involved shootings compiled at the federal level, which should be a simple task.
But just looking at the Philadelphia police statistics which they provide online, they had 10 officer involved shootings that ended in death in 2013, for a population of approximately 1.5 million.

In the UK, we may have about a sixth of your population, but our population density is still almost 8 times what yours is (660 vs. 83 per square mile).

Since the year 2000, 24 of our police officers have died in service and 11 people have been killed by our Police.

Your country can manage exponentially larger numbers than we've had in 14 years in a single year.

That is not something I would consider a "rare occurrence", it's what I would call "too much", especially from a supposedly civilised first-world country.

 

[mre]

You should look at those two things you cited.

One is the presumption of legality when making an arrest when the suspect admits to committing the felony. the other is the use of deadly force to apprehend an individual whom had committed a felony, and in the commission of an arrest. It should also strike you that it made it to the Supreme Court. So it was in effect litigated and investigated.


Either way, when this happens a cop is taken off the street and investigated. And again, if it was the case that he was simply thought to be in the right, is wouldn't happen at all. It must be shown he was right or wrong before he can be tried or returned to duty.

Good. Fucking. Lord. Not only did I read what I wrote, I read the actual cases as well. This whole discussion has been within the context of the use of deadly force while effecting an arrest. Specifically, the use of deadly force while effecting an arrest of a "fleeing felon." The fact that there is a rebuttable presumption does not preclude an investigation. Not once have I said that there won't be an investigation. The existence of a rebuttable presumption means that the default position of the investigation is "the officer acted correctly."

Please read up on what a presumption is in legal terms:

Presumption
A conclusion made as to the existence or nonexistence of a fact that must be drawn from other evidence that is admitted and proven to be true. A Rule of Law.If certain facts are established, a judge or jury must assume another fact that the law recognizes as a logical conclusion from the proof that has been introduced. A presumption differs from an inference, which is a conclusion that a judge or jury may draw from the proof of certain facts if such facts would lead a reasonable person of average intelligence to reach the same conclusion.

. . .

A rebuttable presumption is one that can be disproved by evidence to the contrary. The Federal Rules of Evidence and most state rules are concerned only with rebuttable presumptions, not conclusive presumptions.

The practical effect of this is: "absent evidence to the contrary, the officer acted correctly."

 

[Kajigger]

All police bad! Am I doing this right?

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Good. Fucking. Lord. Not only did I read what I wrote, I read the actual cases as well. This whole discussion has been within the context of the use of deadly force while effecting an arrest. Specifically, the use of deadly force while effecting an arrest of a "fleeing felon." The fact that there is a rebuttable presumption does not preclude an investigation. Not once have I said that there won't be an investigation. The existence of a rebuttable presumption means that the default position of the investigation is "the officer acted correctly."

Please read up on what a presumption is in legal terms:


The practical effect of this is: "absent evidence to the contrary, the officer acted correctly."

So you're literally against innocent until proven guilty. It goes both ways.

 

[Kreed]

Why is it BS? Because American mulattos are classified erroneously by a Society that does not know better?

That whole mindset comes from a society that views one percent of black blood as tainted, thus making someone less than. It screams of 20th century racism.

First, "black" and "race" in general in a social construct. Society dictates how it works. The term black was originally meant as an identifier to "African Americans", as in US citizens with African ancestry. Even then, it wasn't intended to only include US citizens of pure African Ancestry. In today's society it also includes other populations with African ancestry from Haitians to Africans with no US ancestry to people with no connection to the US slave trade (Obama).

If you want to come up with your own personal definition of being black, feel free, but you will know a lot less black people in the US by that standard.

 

[Yaboosh]

So you're literally against innocent until proven guilty.

This is too awesome.

 

[vas_a_morir]

So you're literally against innocent until proven guilty. It goes both ways.

I believe he actually is defending the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty.'

 

[Kurdel]

That is not something I would consider a "rare occurrence", it's what I would call "too much", especially from a supposedly civilised first-world country.

The fact that 100% of US police carry handguns means we can't compare UK stats to US.

 

[Mesousa]

First, "black" and "race" in general in a social construct. Society dictates how it works. The term black was originally meant as an identifier to "African Americans", as in US citizens with African ancestry. Even then, it wasn't intended to only include US citizens of pure African Ancestry. In today's society it also includes other populations with African ancestry from Haitians to Africans with no US ancestry to people with no connection to the US slave trade (Obama).

If you want to come up with your own personal definition of being black, feel free, but you will know a lot less black people in the US by that standard.

You are right this standard was created by an outside group. I do think people should be in charge of defining themselves. I try not to call myself black, but brown for that very reason.

I guess this is another part of revolutionary education.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

I believe he actually is defending the concept of 'innocent until proven guilty.'

Just not for cops.

 

[mre]

So you're literally against innocent until proven guilty.

Wait, are you admitting now that there's a presumption that an officer acted correctly?

No, I'm against there being such a presumption during the course of the police department's internal investigation. It should be an impartial process whereby the evidence of appropriate conduct is placed on one side of the scale and evidence that the office acted inappropriately is placed on the other side of the scale, and then you look to see where you're and whether or not the officer gets to keep his or her job.

If the district attorney decides that there is enough evidence to bring criminal charges, then innocent until proven guilty applies.

 

[Punchy4486]

In the UK, we may have about a sixth of your population, but our population density is still almost 8 times what yours is (660 vs. 83 per square mile).

Since the year 2000, 24 of our police officers have died in service and 11 people have been killed by our Police.

Your country can manage exponentially larger numbers than we've had in 14 years in a single year.

That is not something I would consider a "rare occurrence", it's what I would call "too much", especially from a supposedly civilised first-world country.

A small price to pay to live in a society that glorifies gun culture.

Spoiler

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

Wait, are you admitting now that there's a presumption that an officer acted correctly?

No, I'm against there being such a presumption during the course of the police department's internal investigation. It should be an impartial process whereby the evidence of appropriate conduct is placed on one side of the scale and evidence that the office acted inappropriately is placed on the other side of the scale, and then you look to see where you're and whether or not the officer gets to keep his or her job.

If the district attorney decides that there is enough evidence to bring criminal charges, then innocent until proven guilty applies.

What makes you think this isn't how it works?

Also, many departments actually have a civilian review board for exactly is reason.


In fact, on topic, I believe Furgesson MO actually has a civilian review board.

 

[benjipwns]

What makes you think this isn't how it works?

Past experience?

 

[mre]

What makes you think this isn't how it works?

Also, many departments actually have a civilian review board for exactly is reason.

You know what. I give up. Congratulations. You win whatever debate we've been having.

 

[SierraOne]

Jeez, have you guys ever been in a fucking cop car? The amount of weaponry they have is fucking terrifying.

Um, an 870 shotgun and/or an AR15. A
select few will have a 40mm to shoot tear gas, or bean bags.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Yes.


Poor black people in the ghetto have been beaten down, marginalized, cheated, robbed from, kept uneducated, imprisioned, and murdered for generations by our society. Why should they give one good god damn about a social contract that's a complete lie when it comes to them? White people protest with guns, nothing happens. Black people protest with signs, they get cuffed and booked. What else have desperate people got but lashing out? The Civil Rights Movement was over half a century ago. Fat lot of good it's doing them now.

Everyone likes to talk all loftily about non-violence, and how ignorant people are who don't subscribe to it. But the Civil Rights era was littered with race riots. It's revisionist to presume that all the pressure for social change came solely from the non-violent protest marches, as if the onus was on black people to make a convincing argument that was safe enough for the approval of white people before anything could happen, and that the Montgomery marches finally hit upon the formula that magically opened the golden door. Well, the fact is the Bobby Seales and Malcolm Xs and the justified anger they represented were a vital part of the pressure to get the white power structure to even be inclined to deal with with the non-violent part of the movement.

I know you're trying to make the distracting argument that these looters are just selfish criminals trying to do a smash and grab. Well sure, how the hell do you think that happened? They were born with no future in a place with no hope who are constantly under threat from authority no matter how they behave, people who've never had shit and never will have shit and who are constantly told that they're bad. How are they supposed to see beyond what they can get their hands on next? Things you consider to be low petty crimes are their protest, their disobedience to the rules of the oppressors, it's all they've fucking GOT. We've fucked them and stolen their shit for so long, how can we have the nerve to be shocked and outraged when they finally say fuck it and act the same way?

The argument that riots provide a convenient way to dismiss the problem by whites and therefore it's the fault of the rioters that no progress has been made is as stupid as the argument that feminism blocks progress in equal rights because the name is too excluding. There's no need to cater to the fake concerns of a group that was going to fight you tooth and nail anyway. They would find another excuse. Outrage that people behave like cornered beaten animals is sheer deflection from that fact that this is what we've driven them to. The fact is, we aren't going to have a real conversation about how to fix things with real incentive to implement the solutions without that looming threat of increased violence. And we've been sitting on it pretending the problem had gone away since Reagan got elected.

So yes, this is an anger that has run far too deep, far too wide, and far too long for you to blithely expect to be subsumed in the name of civility, or condemn in the name of personal responsibility. There will be more riots, and until we change things, it's America's fault. We are personally responsible for building a better society where entire classes of people aren't systematically abused. The riots, the vandalism, the looting, that's our collective fucking failure, and the sooner we stop deflecting that responsibility onto our victims, the better.


So shut the fuck up about how bad the rioters are, and start pointing your outrage noise tubes at the Power. You know, THE THING THAT KEEPS MURDERING BLACK KIDS.

I just woke up and read this. This was such a great post, I actually called up a friend who's been struggling with it and read it to her.

You're a good person, and thank you for explaining something that should be obvious to someone who can actually LOOK outside the box, let alone THINK outside of it.

 

[Velcro Fly]

I just woke up and read this. This was such a great post, I actually called up a friend who's been struggling with it and read it to her.

You're a good person, and thank you for explaining something that should be obvious to someone who can actually LOOK outside the box, let alone THINK outside of it.

Too bad that the ones they lashed out at are small business owners from the area. And what about reports of houses being broken into too? Is it ok for people who have been beaten down and oppressed to take it out on people in the exact same situation? The mentality that it's ok to answer a wrong with another wrong is horribly misguided.

 

[kame-sennin]

Anybody seen this video of a guy called Deandre Smith justifying the looting? It's on this page:

http://www.latimes.com/nation/natio...lice-shooting-teen-20140811-story.html#page=1

So much for, "they don't have a political motive".

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Too bad that the ones they lashed out at are small business owners from the area. And what about reports of houses being broken into too? Is it ok for people who have been beaten down and oppressed to take it out on people in the exact same situation? The mentality that it's ok to answer a wrong with another wrong is horribly misguided.

It's unfortunate that you've missed the entire point.

But keep holding on to that outrage. I'm sure it'll make you feel better.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Too bad that the ones they lashed out at are small business owners from the area. And what about reports of houses being broken into too? Is it ok for people who have been beaten down and oppressed to take it out on people in the exact same situation? The mentality that it's ok to answer a wrong with another wrong is horribly misguided.

Well let's be honest here; if they went to a gated rich community (or a ubiquitous upscale business sector) to try the same thing, they'd be dealing with tanks, drones and SWAT teams instead of just the regular police.

Better to take your chances with dogs and batons than tank shells and armor-piercing machine gun rounds.

 

[Velcro Fly]

It's unfortunate that you've missed the entire point.

But keep holding on to that outrage. I'm sure it'll make you feel better.

I'm not outraged. I'm sad. A person that I think is innocent was shot 9 or 10 times and left in the street for hours. A large segment of society in not just St. Louis seemingly has no way out of a shitty situation. I'm a Chicago guy so I know all too well about segregated parts of the city and how the police and government work more against certain groups as opposed to working with them to better their lives. I try my best to see things through the eyes of others and I'll admit I'd probably be just as angry if that was my life. I just don't know that victimizing someone else is exactly the answer, especially when you have the mother of the victim having to talk to a local news anchor trying to distance the grieving family and the peaceful vigil from the looting.

 

[timetokill]

Damn. Some great posts by Sea Manky in this here thread. Love it.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

I'm not outraged. I'm sad. A person that I think is innocent was shot 9 or 10 times and left in the street for hours. A large segment of society in not just St. Louis seemingly has no way out of a shitty situation. I'm a Chicago guy so I know all too well about segregated parts of the city and how the police and government work more against certain groups as opposed to working with them to better their lives. I try my best to see things through the eyes of others and I'll admit I'd probably be just as angry if that was my life. I just don't know that victimizing someone else is exactly the answer, especially when you have the mother of the victim having to talk to a local news anchor trying to distance the grieving family and the peaceful vigil from the looting.

Rioting has been the vehicle to social change more than once in our history, and given the situation, it's not completely out of left field that something like this would happen.

Yes, it sucks that innocent people were brought into this. Yes, it sucks that people were looting stores. You know what sucks more than that? The multitudes of people here who's opinions will match mainstream america, calling these people uncivilized. Savages. Thugs.

Keep in mind that these are people who were just living there shitty lives in whatever shitty existence they carved out for themselves a few days ago. There's a fucking problem in this country, but instead of being outraged that it exists, we'll now get to hear about the fucking rioting and how "sad" it is.

I'm sick and tired of the deflection, I'm sick and tired of the injustice, and if lashing out is all these people have, I will not sit on my moral high horse and pretend that it's unjustifiable.

 

[Trojita]

I feel the calls and acceptance of violence is toxic and I don't agree with them.

 

[Velcro Fly]

Rioting has been the vehicle to social change more than once in our history, and given the situation, it's completely out of left field that something like this would happen.

Yes, it sucks that innocent people were brought into this. Yes, it sucks that people were looting stores. You know what sucks more than that? The multitudes of people here who's opinions will match mainstream america, calling these people uncivilized. Savages. Thugs.

Keep in mind that these are people who were just living there shitty lives in whatever shitty existence they carved out for themselves a few days ago. There's a fucking problem in this country, but instead of being outraged that it exists, we'll now get to hear about the fucking rioting and how "sad" it is.

I'm sick and tired of the deflection, I'm sick and tired of the injustice, and if lashing out is all these people have, I will not sit on my moral high horse and pretend that it's unjustifiable.

I just wish there was a different way. I'm not blaming them for what happened if that's what you think. I'm not trying to characterize what happened in some racist light to justify how black people are treated in America. I'm sad because I recognize that there is a problem that many will choose to ignore or will only care that people are looting and latch onto that instead of asking why. There are no winners in this other than people looking to have their horrible world view validated by a few action shots of young black male running away from the police during a night of looting. I see that and I'm sad because I don't think anything I can do will change anything.

 

[Freakinchair]

Rioting has been the vehicle to social change more than once in our history, and given the situation, it's completely out of left field that something like this would happen.

Yes, it sucks that innocent people were brought into this. Yes, it sucks that people were looting stores. You know what sucks more than that? The multitudes of people here who's opinions will match mainstream america, calling these people uncivilized. Savages. Thugs.

Keep in mind that these are people who were just living there shitty lives in whatever shitty existence they carved out for themselves a few days ago. There's a fucking problem in this country, but instead of being outraged that it exists, we'll now get to hear about the fucking rioting and how "sad" it is.

I'm sick and tired of the deflection, I'm sick and tired of the injustice, and if lashing out is all these people have, I will not sit on my moral high horse and pretend that it's unjustifiable.

Normal people don't rob and destroy the property of businesses trying to get by... They're just using this tragedy as an excuse to get "free" stuff thinking they'll get off scot free because its for a cause. It's completely unjustifiable.

 

[Flo_Evans]

Rioting has been the vehicle to social change more than once in our history, and given the situation, it's completely out of left field that something like this would happen.

Yes, it sucks that innocent people were brought into this. Yes, it sucks that people were looting stores. You know what sucks more than that? The multitudes of people here who's opinions will match mainstream america, calling these people uncivilized. Savages. Thugs.

Keep in mind that these are people who were just living there shitty lives in whatever shitty existence they carved out for themselves a few days ago. There's a fucking problem in this country, but instead of being outraged that it exists, we'll now get to hear about the fucking rioting and how "sad" it is.

I'm sick and tired of the deflection, I'm sick and tired of the injustice, and if lashing out is all these people have, I will not sit on my moral high horse and pretend that it's unjustifiable.

Its pretty unjustifiable...

There is already an organized (peaceful) protest with demands, smashing windows does what exactly?

People want accountability from the police, but a free pass to steal shit when they are mad? Are we going to give the cop a free pass because he was mad the suspect was trying to grab his gun and run away?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I feel the calls and acceptance of violence is toxic and I don't agree with them.

I don't think you have to approve of violent rioting to understand it. It's not easy for me to articulate how I feel about hearing of people injured and stuff being stolen and gas stations being burned down in reaction to the perception of a young man being unjustly murdered by a police officer. Obviously, I don't think rioting is the answer, particularly when it just appears chaotic and non-nonsensical in what it's targeting. But at the same time, I can understand that there are many factors at play here that lead to such situations being the powder kegs that they are. And if it's harmful to advocate for such violent, chaotic acts, I think it's also detrimental when people react as though this is the typical black reaction... as though Sharpton (or whatever figurehead we're citing) sends out the "Commence Operation Rim Theft" signal that signals that this is the official response that they always fall back on to stick it to whitey, thus probably demonstrating that the alleged victim was probably up to no good and behaving just like that guy stealing booze and rims.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Rioting has been the vehicle to social change more than once in our history, and given the situation, it's completely out of left field that something like this would happen.

Yes, it sucks that innocent people were brought into this. Yes, it sucks that people were looting stores. You know what sucks more than that? The multitudes of people here who's opinions will match mainstream america, calling these people uncivilized. Savages. Thugs.

Keep in mind that these are people who were just living there shitty lives in whatever shitty existence they carved out for themselves a few days ago. There's a fucking problem in this country, but instead of being outraged that it exists, we'll now get to hear about the fucking rioting and how "sad" it is.

I'm sick and tired of the deflection, I'm sick and tired of the injustice, and if lashing out is all these people have, I will not sit on my moral high horse and pretend that it's unjustifiable.

Word to this. I'm not saying it's right but…I understand.

 

[jhmtehgamr20xx]

Normal people don't rob and destroy the property of businesses trying to get by... They're just using this tragedy as an excuse to get "free" stuff thinking they'll get off scot free because its for a cause. It's completely unjustifiable.

You're one to talk.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

Normal people don't rob and destroy the property of businesses trying to get by... They're just using this tragedy as an excuse to get "free" stuff thinking they'll get off scot free because its for a cause. It's completely unjustifiable.

You are part of the problem.

You're so busy looking at the symptom that you're unwilling to look at the cause. The post I originally quoted has already broken this down.

But lol, okay, keep beating that drum about "normal" people. Here's a protip: Poverty breeds crime. If these people had the same level of opportunity that "normal" people have, maybe a riot wouldn't have happened because THE KID WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SHOT AND LEFT IN THE STREET LIKE A DEAD ANIMAL CARCASS.

The system has failed them. The system that people love so much has failed them, and you refuse to see it.

But at the end of the day, I guess what it all boils down to is free fucking stuff. Thanks for being a shining example of why the status quo exists and isn't going anywhere.

 

[Flo_Evans]

You are part of the problem.

You're so busy looking at the symptom that you're unwilling to look at the cause. The post I originally quoted has already broken this down.

But lol, okay, keep beating that drum about "normal" people. Here's a protip: Poverty breeds crime. If these people had the same level of opportunity that "normal" people have, maybe a riot wouldn't have happened because THE KID WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SHOT AND LEFT IN THE STREET LIKE A DEAD ANIMAL CARCASS.

The system has failed them. The system that people love so much has failed them, and you refuse to see it.

But at the end of the day, I guess what it all boils down to is free fucking stuff. Thanks for being a shining example of why the status quo exists and isn't going anywhere.

The system hasn't even sprung into gear yet.

The protesters have a list of four demands:
1. For the officer who killed Brown to be identified.
2. For the officer who killed Brown to be fired and charged with murder.
3. They want the police department's "Protocol Handbook" released to the public.
4. They want the Ferguson Police Department's employees to reflect the racial demographic of the community.

1. they are releasing the officers name
2. FBI is investigating
3. this should be public info anyway
4. join the force

 

[Trojita]

I don't think you have to approve of violent rioting to understand it. It's not easy for me to articulate how I feel about hearing of people injured and stuff being stolen and gas stations being burned down in reaction to the perception of a young man being unjustly murdered by a police officer. Obviously, I don't think rioting is the answer, particularly when it just appears chaotic and non-nonsensical in what it's targeting. But at the same time, I can understand that there are many factors at play here that lead to such situations being the powder kegs that they are. And if it's harmful to advocate for such violent, chaotic acts, I think it's also detrimental when people react as though this is the typical black reaction... as though Sharpton (or whatever figurehead we're citing) sends out the "Commence Operation Rim Theft" signal that signals that this is the official response that they always fall back on to stick it to whitey, thus probably demonstrating that the alleged victim was probably up to no good and behaving just like that guy stealing booze and rims.

There are indeed many factors. I don't know if we can say the looting was because of anger over the killing or an opportunity that some saw. A lot of people that normally won't loot a place will do so after they see other people going in and coming out with stuff. All it takes is one person to snowball.

I've seen every race of people loot during riots so anyone assuming this is a reaction pertaining to one group of people is being prejudice and ignorant.

I don't believe looting an appropriate reaction and I believe most people from the community would agree.

We want justice for this young man and a change in the status quo.

The system hasn't even sprung into gear yet.



1. they are releasing the officers name
2. FBI is investigating
3. this should be public info anyway
4. join the force

4. If disenfranchised people weren't able to get an appropriate education or have economic conditions making this harder, joining the police force isn't likely possible. There is also the possibility of discriminatory practices that may or may not exist in the hiring process.

 

[mckmas8808]

I'm pretty sure this just takes all media sympathy from the community and gives it to the police that have to try and patrol those areas everyday.

And who's problem is that? The protesters can't stop the media from doing something that dumb.

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

You are part of the problem.

You're so busy looking at the symptom that you're unwilling to look at the cause. The post I originally quoted has already broken this down.

But lol, okay, keep beating that drum about "normal" people. Here's a protip: Poverty breeds crime. If these people had the same level of opportunity that "normal" people have, maybe a riot wouldn't have happened because THE KID WOULDN'T HAVE BEEN SHOT AND LEFT IN THE STREET LIKE A DEAD ANIMAL CARCASS.

The system has failed them. The system that people love so much has failed them, and you refuse to see it.

But at the end of the day, I guess what it all boils down to is free fucking stuff. Thanks for being a shining example of why the status quo exists and isn't going anywhere.

He's not part of the problem, the rioters and looters are. They are the ones clouding the original message and shifting sympathy away from the family of the killed teenager and to the police. They completely hijacked the peaceful demonstration and effectively changed the narrative in the media, and in a very negative way.

It's been said before, two wrongs don't make a right. The scary thing is you come off advocating for violent protest.

 

[Lime]

 

[Camp Lo]

LOL!!

 

[Velcro Fly]

#IfTheyGunnedMeDown

 

[Brolic Gaoler]

LOL!!

#IfTheyGunnedMeDown

A bit of cherry picking there. Let's not forget the other images the media used of that guy which show him to look like a complete psychopath.

 

[J10]

Black people ain't shit. Full story at 11.

 

[Chie Satonaka]

He's not part of the problem, the rioters and looters are. They are the ones clouding the original message and shifting sympathy away from the family of the killed teenager and to the police. They completely hijacked the peaceful demonstration and effectively changed the narrative in the media, and in a very negative way.

It's been said before, two wrongs don't make a right. The scary thing is you come off advocating for violent protest.

You're right. It does come off like I'm advocating for violent protest.

That is, if you lack things like critical thinking skills and reading comprehension. I've already made it clear that it wasn't the right thing to do.

You're another one who's part of the problem, because in your anger at the looters you've missed the bigger picture. When you've been failed by a system that, in theory, is supposed to exist for you, and you realize that not only does the system not give a fuck about you, it was designed to keep you exactly where you are, I guess it's pretty easy to slip into the "I don't give a fuck" mindset.

Of course, that's not what you and others here want to discuss. You want to pretend that this is the big issue instead of talking about the systematic racism and discrimination that put people in these positions to begin with.

Since people aren't understanding this, let me spell out my position so that it's crystal clear. I am not advocating for violent protests, rioting, and looting. However, these people aren't just criminals. They're victims. If you guys would just release this "THEY DID CRIMES FULL STOP" thought process, we could have more constructive conversations about how to change this problem. Instead, we've just gotten another glimpse into what the American mainstream will be focusing on.

Two wrongs don't make a right, but these people were wronged before they were born. And until we're willing to address that, don't be surprised if you see more violence.

 

[Clockwork5]

Is a mod going to change the thread title?

It was not St. Louis PD
He was 18