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[serenewarfare]

Yet Yukes couldn't even make a really good wrestling game even back in 2000 before the complicated graphics of today.

But you have to look at it in perspective. The graphics in 2000 were just as big a part of the development cycle in 2000. It's not like the graphics were easy to make because they weren't as advanced as in 2014.

 

[Bob White]

I think some people underestimate the complexity and amount of animations and development needed for a wrestling game far, far exceed pretty much any other sports game, so it's not fair to compare the animations here to, say, NBA 2K or UFC. And that is just with two guys. When you bump it up to 5 or 6, it gets that much more difficult to render and squash all the bugs. And develop systems. And make sure it has enough content. And decent online services. And fill out the modes. All of that on a one year dev cycle. Just because AKI made No Mercy, that doesn't mean they could make a great wrestling game by 2014 standards. Not saying what we've seen is perfect, but I think people drastically oversimplify the process of making a wrestling game.

I have to disagree big time on these two points. First, No Mercy dealt with ton of complex animations and things too. While it hasn't perfect, the AKI games felt grounded and solid. Sluggish, yes. But good fucking god was it all already there. Shit looked and felt like pro wrestling. This was years ago. YEARS. To see yukes "getting better" yet still not even hit N64 standards is pathetic.

And on your second point, I don't think AKI would be struggling at all since the glorious ground work was already there. It would be like adding to the Tekken series or something. Just new online bells and whistles with changes here and there to the core rules. Well, at least I hope it would have gone that smoothly.

 

[serenewarfare]

Bullshit. Allstars was a great game and that studio's first attempt at a WWE game. It also had a funner story mode than any recent WWE game. They also made the TNA game before that, but even the TNA game was better than any recent Yuke's title. A good base can be built upon to get even better and better. Yukes is building off a pile of dog shit that has been sitting in the summer heat.

Okay. All-Stars was drastically simplified. Yes, it was fun, but it did not have nearly the level of detail or complexity that the main series does. Or the amount of content for that matter. Neither did the TNA game, and I loved that TNA game. Now, whether they should go for complexity and detail over fun is another story, but you can't compare All-Stars to the general series just because they both say WWE on the cover.

 

[s_mirage]

I think some people underestimate the complexity and amount of animations and development needed for a wrestling game far, far exceed pretty much any other sports game, so it's not fair to compare the animations here to, say, NBA 2K or UFC. And that is just with two guys. When you bump it up to 5 or 6, it gets that much more difficult to render and squash all the bugs. And develop systems. And make sure it has enough content. And decent online services. And fill out the modes. All of that on a one year dev cycle. Just because AKI made No Mercy, that doesn't mean they could make a great wrestling game by 2014 standards. Not saying what we've seen is perfect, but I think people drastically oversimplify the process of making a wrestling game.

Yukes have had a decade to improve the animation system in their games yet, up until 2K14 at least, the change from year to year has been nearly non-existent. If anything, the introduction of the Havok physics engine from SvR 2010 onwards only made things look worse.

 

[Gonzalez]

But you have to look at it in perspective. The graphics in 2000 were just as big a part of the development cycle in 2000. It's not like the graphics were easy to make because they weren't as advanced as in 2014.

I really don't care about the graphics though. All I want is legitimate good gameplay. You can give me the most realistic camel toe in a wrestling game, but if your game still plays like a shitty broken wrestling game from 00's I'm not going to buy it.

 

[TheDrowningMan]

Hahaha no. They finally made it look like a PS3 era game. That's a big leap? How is that an improvement over any other sports game that's out on next gen? Well, every other sports game on last gen didn't look PS2 level graphics wise, so I can see how you might think the leap is bigger.

It's a bigger leap but yes, it had further to go given the series' technical stagnation. Using similar games as a benchmark - TNA, UFC and in game, not press shots that don't actually represent the games in motion - it's absolutely above PS3 level but there's still a way to go and hopefully under 2K we see a period of sustained improvement. I see it as a promising progression, that's all.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Okay. All-Stars was drastically simplified. Yes, it was fun, but it did not have nearly the level of detail or complexity that the main series does. Or the amount of content for that matter. Neither did the TNA game, and I loved that TNA game. Now, whether they should go for complexity and detail over fun is another story, but you can't compare All-Stars to the general series just because they both say WWE on the cover.

What is so complex or detailed about the main series? Allstars had better hit detection, smoother animations, and better looking characters, although they were steroided up versions. It also had a better reversal system and gameplay as a whole. Why would I give a shit about a cage match in the 2k series when the core game isn't fun to play?

 

[serenewarfare]

I have to disagree big time on these two points. First, No Mercy dealt with ton of complex animations and things too. While it hasn't perfect, the AKI games felt grounded and solid. Sluggish, yes. But good fucking god was it all already there. Shit looked and felt like pro wrestling. This was years ago. YEARS. To see yukes "getting better" yet still not even hit N64 standards is pathetic.

And on your second point, I don't think AKI would be struggling at all since the glorious ground work was already there. It would be like adding to the Tekken series or something. Just new online bells and whistles with changes here and there to the core rules. Well, at least I hope it would have gone that smoothly.

The No Mercy roster had about 50-60 guys. 2K15 has about 100 when you include Divas. No Mercy had about 12 match types. 2K15, if it follows what last year had, has a lot more than that. No Mercy had one story mode that could be played multiple times. 2K15 has the 2K Showcase with the documentary style features and matches, while also having the fully featured career mode.

Again, wrestling games in 2014 are significantly more complex and fully featured than in 1999. It's not a given that AKI could have expanded the games at the pace that they have while also keeping up the quality.

 

[serenewarfare]

What is so complex or detailed about the main series? Allstars had better hit detection, smoother animations, and better looking characters, although they were steroided up versions. It also had a better reversal system and gameplay as a whole. Why would I give a shit about a cage match in the 2k series when the core game isn't fun to play?

That's my point. All-Stars had less detail in the character models because they were so cartoonish. And All-Stars had 30 playable characters and one game mode other than exhibition. 2K15 has about 100 and multiple modes. It's just a more feature complete game. Like I said, you can argue whether 2K should go for complexity or fun, but you can't act like developing All-Stars and developing 2K15 are at all the same, or even similar for that matter.

 

[BoboBrazil]

The No Mercy roster had about 50-60 guys. 2K15 has about 100 when you include Divas. No Mercy had about 12 match types. 2K15, if it follows what last year had, has a lot more than that. No Mercy had one story mode that could be played multiple times. 2K15 has the 2K Showcase with the documentary style features and matches, while also having the fully featured career mode.

Again, wrestling games in 2014 are significantly more complex and fully featured than in 1999. It's not a given that AKI could have expanded the games at the pace that they have while also keeping up the quality.

You are ignoring the fact that the core gameplay in the 2k series is shit. Adding more modes and wrestlers have nothing to do with the core gameplay getting worse.

 

[theclosetfan]

You are ignoring the fact that the core gameplay in the 2k series is shit. Adding more modes and wrestlers have nothing to do with the core gameplay getting worse.

I don't think it's shit. I think it's quite good and it's been getting better in the past couple years.

I *gasp* also think it's better than No Mercy. Come at me, bros.

 

[serenewarfare]

You are ignoring the fact that the core gameplay in the 2k series is shit. Adding more modes and wrestlers have nothing to do with the core gameplay getting worse.

I'm not ignoring it. In fact, I'm acknowledging it by saying that you can argue whether they should spend more time making it complex or fun.

I think you think I'm saying that the 2K games are better because they have more modes. I'm absolutely not. I'm just saying it's not nearly as simple as "just do it like No Mercy" or "No Mercy and "X" game were good 15 years ago, so why can't this be like that" as a lot here seem to think it is.

 

[Gonzalez]

I don't think it's shit. I think it's quite good and it's been getting better in the past couple years.

I *gasp* also think it's better than No Mercy. Come at me, bros.

Are you a bot?

 

[BoboBrazil]

I'm not ignoring it. In fact, I'm acknowledging it by saying that you can argue whether they should spend more time making it complex or fun.

I think you think I'm saying that the 2K games are better because they have more modes. I'm absolutely not. I'm just saying it's not nearly as simple as "just do it like No Mercy" or "No Mercy and "X" game were good 15 years ago, so why can't this be like that" as a lot here seem to think it is.

Fact is these guys are paid to make a game and have been making a game in the same series for 15 or 16 years now. This is all they've been able to do in that time. Allstars was 1 game and was already superior just based on gameplay. Modes and rosters come with time, but Yukes keeps building off the same horrible base. They are still using it on PS4 and there is no excuse for that.

 

[theclosetfan]

Are you a bot?

No.

 

[dubq]

I loved No Mercy and WM2000 at the time but those games are overrated in the wrestling game community, IMO. There's a metric fuckton of nostalgia that goes along with how people remember those games, IMO.

 

[theclosetfan]

I loved No Mercy and WM2000 at the time but those games are overrated in the wrestling game community, IMO. There's a metric fuckton of nostalgia that goes along with how people remember those games, IMO.

Agreed. It's reached a level of absurdity.

 

[Gonzalez]

I loved No Mercy and WM2000 at the time but those games are overrated in the wrestling game community, IMO. There's a metric fuckton of nostalgia that goes along with how people remember those games, IMO.

Brah, I've been playing King of Colosseum for 7 years now. There is no rose tinted glasses, nostalgia, or whatever shit you want to use to say we are old. The game still plays exactly like a legit great 3D wrestling should even if it looks like the Sims 1.

 

[dubq]

Brah, I've been playing King of Colosseum for 7 years now. There is no rose tinted glasses, nostalgia, or whatever shit you want to use to say we are old. The game still plays exactly like a legit great 3D wrestling should even if it looks like the Sims 1.

Who is saying you're old? 36 years old right here, "brah." Also, when was I talking about KOC? I love KOC & KOC2, and I can understand the love that it gets, because it still holds up when I play it (to this day). No Mercy, however, does not, IMO.

 

[Gonzalez]

Who is saying you're old? 36 years old right here, "brah." Also, when was I talking about KOC? I love KOC & KOC2, and I can understand the love that it gets, because it still holds up when to play it to this day. No Mercy, however, does not, IMO.

I'll agree to that. That's the engine I want back, not the AKI engine. But still the old AKI games are far superior to the current, and past Yukes games. Remember when it to them years to put in the ability to stand on the apron during a singles match.

 

[RandyBobandy]

I loved No Mercy and WM2000 at the time but those games are overrated in the wrestling game community, IMO. There's a metric fuckton of nostalgia that goes along with how people remember those games, IMO.

No doubt.

That's because this is the pinnacle of wrestling games;

Seriously, give me a No Mercy/WCW Revenge HD remake so I never have to look at a Yukes game again

 

[Face it Tiger..]

'scust.

it looks like SVR 2007 will continue to be the best recent WWE game.

 

[-tetsuo-]

That's my point. All-Stars had less detail in the character models because they were so cartoonish. And All-Stars had 30 playable characters and one game mode other than exhibition. 2K15 has about 100 and multiple modes. It's just a more feature complete game. Like I said, you can argue whether 2K should go for complexity or fun, but you can't act like developing All-Stars and developing 2K15 are at all the same, or even similar for that matter.

Well then just scale back all the bullshit and work on the core game. Simple.

 

[dubq]

Well then just scale back all the bullshit and work on the core game. Simple.

Then you get people complaining that they've scaled back too much and eliminated features.

 

[Gonzalez]

'scust.

it looks like SVR 2007 will continue to be the best recent WWE game.

I'm sorry you misspelled WWF Betrayal.

God that game had an amazing twist.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Then you get people complaining that they've scaled back too much and eliminated features.

I'd rather people complain about a mode being removed temporarily from a game than complain that my game is horrible and not fun to play. Personally, that's just me though.

 

[Fox318]

I loved No Mercy and WM2000 at the time but those games are overrated in the wrestling game community, IMO. There's a metric fuckton of nostalgia that goes along with how people remember those games, IMO.

Here Comes the Pain and Day of Reckoning 1 & 2 were good games.

This last generation hasn't been to kind too wrestling games.

 

[Crab Milk Mickey]

It's been in development for years. Hopefully the kickstarter actually kickstarts something.

It's been in development 11 years, and taken people's funding money over and over with nothing to show.

I subscribed to the newsletter for the guy behind that Kickstarter's wrestling game project in 2003. 2003. And I'm still waiting for a full game release from him.

Well shit, I didn't realize development of it dated that far back. Buzzkill.

 

[Face it Tiger..]

I'm sorry you misspelled WWF Betrayal.

God that game had an amazing twist.

I said recent pal,

as in from the 21st century.

 

[Gonzalez]

I said recent pal,

as in from the 21st century.

That game is ageless. It's storyline holds up well with the current WWE TV of today.

 

[hlhbk]

It looks like Yuke's gameplay, but that was to be expected. I am picking this up day one for the story mode alone.

 

[JdFoX187]

'scust.

it looks like SVR 2007 will continue to be the best recent WWE game.

Really? I mean, fucking really? Have you played it lately? People are bitching about how the animations haven't changed in a decade should go back and watch SvR '07. That game had better character models, but I've seen better animated shit in 99 cent iOS flash games.

 

[Plinko]

No doubt.

That's because this is the pinnacle of wrestling games;

Seriously, give me a No Mercy/WCW Revenge HD remake so I never have to look at a Yukes game again

I just played through both. No Mercy's grappling system allows for nearly double the amount of moves. It's the better game.

 

[strobogo]

Man, how the fuck does the game play actually look WORSE than it has for the past few years? That's unreal.

 

[Exis]

You gotta be kidding me, this is a fresh coat of paint on the same horrid game play that they have been running into the ground for the last decade- this must be what it feels like to be a Madden player.

 

[GravyButt]

Still going to buy it, but damn I hate the pin mini game. Like really really hate it

 

[Gonzalez]

Still going to buy it, but damn I hate the pin mini game. Like really really hate it

Same with the Break Point submission shit. Get rid of all the fucking meters, HUD, and race to get to the finisher shit. The race to the finisher, or taunting for a special was probably one of the biggest mistakes AKI introduced into the wrestling game industry.

 

[dubq]

I'd rather people complain about a mode being removed temporarily from a game than complain that my game is horrible and not fun to play. Personally, that's just me though.

Feh, subjective. I had plenty of fun with 2K14 despite it's flaws. Then again, I'm not sitting there scrutinizing how the ropes bounce when I play a wrestling game, so...

 

[Gonzalez]

Feh, subjective. I had plenty of fun with 2K14 despite it's flaws. Then again, I'm not sitting there scrutinizing how the ropes bounce when I play a wrestling game, so...

We weren't scrutinizing how the ropes bounced. We were scrutinizing how our characters literately turned into the ring ropes, while at the same time giving Jack Aubrey a plan to combat the French Naval ship that was after his ass.

 

[BoboBrazil]

Feh, subjective. I had plenty of fun with 2K14 despite it's flaws. Then again, I'm not sitting there scrutinizing how the ropes bounce when I play a wrestling game, so...

Yeah characters no selling all your moves and getting right back up, wrestlers and objects teleporting and glitching, and fucking pin meter mini games are so fun. I guess "fun" is subjective.

 

[Pavaloo]

no selling moves and getting up immediately isn't exclusive to the most recent games, but it's one of the more "gamey" things I'm willing to accept from the medium. same thing with glitches - in fact i can find them funny. thank goodness they have a proper QA department now, hopefully it will help titles in the future. and i for one really enjoy the pin bar mechanic as opposed to button mashing? it was one of the things I really liked about wwe 12 (first wrestling game I played since hctp)

there are posters here suggesting kayfabe/meta systems that I don't want anywhere near the game

so yeah, subjective fun and all that

 

[Fatalah]

I remember being so pumped for WWF Attitude. Then Aki came and set the world on fire.

 

[Gonzalez]

I remember being so pumped for WWF Attitude. Then Aki came and set the world on fire.

I know your joking but there are the Kinnikuman games that were made by AKI that used a button combo system.

BTW, now that I think about it those were the last great recent wrestling game.

 

[SummitAve]

The character animations look so fast. It's jarring.

 

[xImmortal007x]

Yuck Warzone and Attitude. I was so hyped for them and then had to memorize button combos for hip tosses and suplexes. Horrible.

 

[The Elite]

Yuck Warzone and Attitude. I was so hyped for them and then had to memorize button combos for hip tosses and suplexes. Horrible.

Yeah, they got it so wrong.

 

[Host Samurai]

ultimate muscle on the GC was amazing. loved that game. would play it stoned when i came home from the beach the summer it came out. good times

 

[Zach]

Yuck Warzone and Attitude. I was so hyped for them and then had to memorize button combos for hip tosses and suplexes. Horrible.

Yeah, I think we can all actually agree on that. Right, guys? Right?!

 

[funkystudent]

Is it 60fps on next gen?

Maybe that could help brute force some of the Yukes gameplay sluggishness?

 

[Bob White]

Yuck Warzone and Attitude. I was so hyped for them and then had to memorize button combos for hip tosses and suplexes. Horrible.

God, I remember doing that. No fun at all. At least it looked pretty good for back then.