Ferguson: Police Kill 18yo Black Male; Fire Gas/Rubber Bullets Into Protesting Crowds

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Jakten said:
You suggested that he wouldn't call the police because he would be worried he would be targeted but I doubt he would have waited days to report a robbery. Even if he was afraid of when things first started kicking off it would have been an hour or 2.
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No, no, no, no, no...

Ahhhh... Okay, here's the timeline of events if everyone is new, or behind right now...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/...el-brown-ferguson-missouri-timeline/14051827/

Now take that shit, and bookmark it.
 
Eyemus Lutt said:
The dude was a giant that pushed the shop owner like he was nothing,



Better the robber than a cop with a great record.
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Going with the Juggernaut theory then? Brown charged an officer with his weapon drawn, wearing sandals, thinking that he could take him down with his bare hands... sounds more plausible than a jittery cop that screwed up.
 
Eyemus Lutt said:
First I want to make it clear that I don't think he deserved to die for stealing from the store and roughing up the owner, but if it's found out he was attacking the cop in any way then It's unfortunate he had to die, but better him than the cop.
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What even makes you think the cop was in danger of dying whem Brown was shot after surrendering?
 
KHarvey16 said:
I don't know that dog piling on that comment is fair. "Better him than the cop" refers to being killed, which means IF his life were truly in danger he prefers the attacker be dead instead of the victim. He even said if. So I don't know that that's a controversial desire in any case.
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His life was probably not in danger, we pretty much know this. The only injury he may have suffered is swelling of the face, and we don't know if that's true. It's not like he was being savagely beat or even in a fist fight.
 
Eyemus Lutt said:
The dude was a giant that pushed the shop owner like he was nothing,



Better the robber than a cop with a great record.
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You seem to have a hard time focusing on the most important aspect of the shooting, which is the cop didn't know he was a robber when he confronted and shot him.
 
This is where we are now. Apparently it's better for a black man to be killed than a cop to possibly be in a fight.

Person being killed > person being beat up

Let that sink in.
 
Veritigo_X said:
Going with the Juggernaut theory then? Brown charged an officer with his weapon drawn, wearing sandals, thinking that he could take him down with his bare hands... sounds more plausible than a jittery cop that screwed up.
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Do you think a cop with a perfect track record firing 6 bullets into a completely innocent man is more plausible?
 
Big Baybee said:
His life was probably not in danger, we pretty much know this. The only injury he may have suffered is swelling of the face, and we don't know if that's true. It's not like he was being savagely beat or even in a fist fight.
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There's a video that shows Wilson's face pretty clearly immediately after the shooting and he looks fine.
 
Been out of the country and on vacation for a while so I'm not caught up on this thing.

What are the current explanations as to why the kid was shot. People were crying he was killed execution style, but it seems the autopsy suggests this wasn't the case? But he was shot in the front? Some eye witness said he was killed after surrending and others said he was killed after lunging/charging at the cop?
 
ICKE said:
I don't believe the officer will be sentenced to jail. His friend was there with him when the robbery happened so any testimony will be suspect. Eyewitnesses have also given conflicting reports. And it's not like the judicial system will allow him to be convicted by a community that is protesting and rioting on the streets. The trial will be held in some middle class area with a white majority. At that point the drug angle and all other things will play a significant role.
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They'd better batter down the hatches for an even bigger riot then. Maybe this time they'll go into more...upper-class locations hmmm?

Really tho, there's enough evidence to sentence the cop. Just as long as the prosecution gets a good lawyer...and I'd rather the family get one privately than one appointed through the state for them.
 
Big Baybee said:
I'm trying not to straight up say he was never in any danger at all, but we don't know that. All signs point to he wasn't, lol.
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Ya ya, I hear you. I was just pointing out that we do have video evidence of Wilson's face after the altercation and he definitely doesn't look like he was roughed up at all.
 
Jado said:
And you can bet any black jurors will be struck for "reasons."
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Each side only gets 6 peremptory challenges in Missouri. Beyond that, you have to show cause, so unless (1) the number of potential black juror members are six or fewer or (2) they all give some sort of verbal indication that they cannot be unbiased in their duty as jury member, then you will most likely end up with some black jurors. Edit: And keep in mind, that beyond the defense's peremptory challenges, you'll have the state fighting to keep black jurors on the panel. Furthermore, SCOTUS has prohibited the use of peremptory challenges in a discriminatory manner, so even the peremptory challenges of the defense may be challenged if they appear to be based solely upon the race of the struck juror.

And to be frank, I would imagine that the defense would WANT there to be some black jurors to avoid the appearance of impropriety. All it takes is one juror voting to acquit to get a hung jury, so a white-washing of the jury panel would be unnecessary (and counter-productive in the long run) as an all white jury doesn't guarantee an acquittal either.
 
rooflapimp said:
Do you think a cop with a perfect track record firing 6 bullets into a completely innocent man is more plausible?
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Does "perfect track record" really mean much when people regularly complain about cops and it gets swept under the rug and isn't noted anywhere?
 
Tawpgun said:
Been out of the country and on vacation for a while so I'm not caught up on this thing.

What are the current explanations as to why the kid was shot. People were crying he was killed execution style, but it seems the autopsy suggests this wasn't the case? But he was shot in the front? Some eye witness said he was killed after surrending and others said he was killed after lunging/charging at the cop?
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I believe all witnesses so far has said he was surrendering and a friend of Wilson's -- who was not there at the time-- said that Brown was charging at him.
 
jhmtehgamr20xx said:
They'd better batter down the hatches for an even bigger riot then. Maybe this time they'll go into more...upper-class locations hmmm?

Really tho, there's enough evidence to sentence the cop. Just as long as the prosecution gets a good lawyer...and I'd rather the family get one privately than one appointed through the state for them.
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The officer would be prosecuted by the state of course, not the family.
 
right now this has gone beyond the 18y/o that got short and killed the way this has been going every night it seems that the locals and some outsiders just want to show up every night in defiance to this curfew

to me if you are going to stream news media about this stuff each night and the police continues to arrest people every night this can only escalate into something even worst

I don't think we will find any justice for what happened in Ferguson someone needs to find a way to change the every night cycle
 
marrec said:
There's a video that shows Wilson's face pretty clearly immediately after the shooting and he looks fine.
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I really wish that we could get clarification on this. Not that I think sustaining facial injuries would justify multiple shots fired from a distance, but it would be nice to know just what we're dealing with here in terms of understanding just how plausible it is that the officer feared this man advancing on him -- assuming you believe he was advancing on him. Just through the grapevine chatter, I've heard everything from "light bruising" to "broken orbital and jaw."
 
FiggyCal said:
I believe all witnesses so far has said he was surrendering and a friend of Wilson's -- who was not there at the time-- said that Brown was charging at him.
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So all in all, moral of the story is cops need better training, go pros, and structual racism is a thing.
 
From what I'm putting together...

The policeman was frustrated with the two kids who weren't listening to him and then his leg got struck by his own car door after it bounced off of Brown. (This could be interpreted as an attack, I suppose) After that, the policeman threw his anger at the kid with his gun.

Does that make sense? It seems like a quick fit of rage and frustration. Could've been avoided if the police officer had taken a breath or two.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I really wish that we could get clarification on this. Not that I think sustaining facial injuries would justify multiple shots fired from a distance, but it would be nice to know just what we're dealing with here in terms of understanding just how plausible it is that the officer feared this man advancing on him -- assuming you believe he was advancing on him. Just through the grapevine chatter, I've heard everything from "light bruising" to "broken orbital and jaw."
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It may be my heated emotions linked to the situation talking... but it's pretty telling that we haven't had any pictures of sustained injuries released by Wilson or the FPD.

They clearly want to assassinate Brown's character, so wouldn't that help their cause?
 
Smiles and Cries said:
right now this has gone beyond the 18y/o that got short and killed the way this has been going every night it seems that the locals and some outsiders just want to show up every night in defiance to this curfew

to me if you are going to stream news media about this stuff each night and the police continues to arrest people every night this can only escalate into something even worst

I don't think we will find any justice for what happened in Ferguson someone needs to find a way to change the every night cycle
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People do not want this to go quietly so Brown gets some actual justice. Cases against cops in the United States have a history, and its almost always in favor of the men in blue.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I really wish that we could get clarification on this. Not that I think sustaining facial injuries would justify multiple shots fired from a distance, but it would be nice to know just what we're dealing with here in terms of understanding just how plausible it is that the officer feared this man advancing on him -- assuming you believe he was advancing on him. Just through the grapevine chatter, I've heard everything from "light bruising" to "broken orbital and jaw."
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There is video of him chatting with another officer and walking around the mess he made. I doubt he was that seriously injured.
 
PhoenixDark said:
So the claim that the officer has 6+ eye witnesses corroborating his story is bullshit, correct?
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There have been a total of 0 eyewitnesses come forward to make a statement saying that Brown charged at Wilson. That account has only be relayed by Wilson to his friends who have then come forward to the media.
 
BHZ Mayor said:
This is where we are now. Apparently it's better for a black man to be killed than a cop to possibly be in a fight.

Person being killed > person being beat up

Let that sink in.
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I read some of the comments here and wonder if I ever was that out of touch when I was young. I just can't fathom the disconnect to be honest.
 
PhoenixDark said:
So the claim that the officer has 6+ eye witnesses corroborating his story is bullshit, correct?
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I'll defer to others who may have been keeping up on this more the last 24-48 hours, but as I understand it the only witness that appears to offer an account that vaguely resembles the second or third hand account we're hearing was the officer's that we know of is someone caught in off camera chatter discussing what he saw. It's not clearly audible, and it's not even clear if he's come forward to offer his account to any authorities. He hasn't gone on record with the media at least.
 
marrec said:
Ya ya, I hear you. I was just pointing out that we do have video evidence of Wilson's face after the altercation and he definitely doesn't look like he was roughed up at all.
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It can take time for injuries to show sometimes.

Either way, there would be too much at risk if they lied about him going to the hospital. There is going to be evidence of some kind of injury on him that day.
 
KHarvey16 said:
The officer would be prosecuted by the state of course, not the family.
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And the family has an attorney anyways, Benjamin Crump. They'd probably get someone else for the civil case, though.

Like I said before, I'm starting to wonder if, while the initial contact was race related, the actual shooting was more related to Wilson being a complete goddamn fool/was upset/embarrassed/etc. It honestly reads like he had no idea what he was doing. The protests/riots etc are absolutely ridiculous, and the police even know that there are people out there inciting issues. Focus on them. Don't shoot willy nilly. And arresting journalists GOT you even deeper in this hole. Why are you continuing to do it? It ends in your doom.

Also, if Wilson was hurt, why don't we have the pictures? That would help his case, and even in the Zimmerman case we got them pretty quickly. Christ, we don't even have an idea of what Wilson's side is. Why?

And don't even get me started on the absolute nonsense going on with people thinking Brown is the fucking Juggernaut.
 
There is so much confusion, I kinda wish a mod could post about this perhaps, would it be possible to ask people to link sources sometimes? It's getting really hard to follow up on claims made by posters.. "witnesses said this, and said that" and "this happened" and tons of what seems to be opinions posted as facts "Well this happened"..

Just a link or something.

With the nature of social medias and at the speed things are being updated, this thread is quite messy.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I really wish that we could get clarification on this. Not that I think sustaining facial injuries would justify multiple shots fired from a distance, but it would be nice to know just what we're dealing with here in terms of understanding just how plausible it is that the officer feared this man advancing on him -- assuming you believe he was advancing on him. Just through the grapevine chatter, I've heard everything from "light bruising" to "broken orbital and jaw."
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It's pretty crucial information for judging a claim of self defense, if that's the road they go down. It's also important to point out though that a successful self defense claim wouldn't necessarily hinge on actual injuries.
 
FiggyCal said:
One of the guys who helped perform the autopsy said that the shot to his arm could've happened as he was running away, with his back turn. But as far as I know, all other shots were to his front. Which would be consistent with the eyewitnesses.



It needs to be said that the chief would not know if Wilson had a clean record because the reports of excessive force and disciplinary action are not kept in his personnel file in the Ferguson police department, they are put in the individual case files he was involved in. It is possible he had a clean record before he killed Brown (though we wouldn't know it to be certain). It's probably also worth noting that Brown also had a clean record before he robbed a store.
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I'd even go as far to say, why does it matter if he had a clean record? So did Brown, but that didn't stop him from dying in this one instance he may have smudged it. Same with the cop; a prior clean record shouldn't allow him to escape the consequences of killing a surrendering, unarmed (can't stress that enough) civilian for the one time he smudges his "perfect record".

Browns prior lack of a record obviously had little influence in the cop thinking (foolishly) he was enough of a threat to kill while surrendering, and the cop's prior record had little bearing on Brown's mistaken belief a supposed good cop wouldn't suddenly kill him over a pack of supposedly stolen cigarollos.

KHarvey16 said:
The officer would be prosecuted by the state of course, not the family.
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I was thinking more along the lines the family could get a lawyer of their own choosing, but that lawyer still represents the state and prosecutes on their behalf.
 
Zoe said:
It can take time for injuries to show sometimes.

Either way, there would be too much at risk if they lied about him going to the hospital. There is going to be evidence of some kind of injury on him that day.
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The FPD has proven that it's not the sharpest knife in the drawer so I wouldn't give them the benefit of the doubt on this account yet.
 
Steve Youngblood said:
I really wish that we could get clarification on this. Not that I think sustaining facial injuries would justify multiple shots fired from a distance, but it would be nice to know just what we're dealing with here in terms of understanding just how plausible it is that the officer feared this man advancing on him -- assuming you believe he was advancing on him. Just through the grapevine chatter, I've heard everything from "light bruising" to "broken orbital and jaw."
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The drip feed of information on one side and the lack of information on the other is exacerbating the whole thing. Especially when combined with what else is going on.

I think they've held back any information regarding the officer's side while they collected witness testimony though. So it couldn't be influenced.

There was this Tweet from a local reporter last night:

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChristineDByers/status/501556693382094848

Police sources tell me more than a dozen witnesses have corroborated cop's version of events in shooting #Ferguson
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More is going to come out, the question is when and to what degree.
 
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