Ferguson: Police Officer Kills 18yo Michael Brown; Protests/Riots Continue

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Reaganomics said:
I understand that but if what they're saying is true, why wasn't any news of him being punched circulating within the first few hours or days of the entire incident?
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They probably didn't discover these facts of the case until the current point in the investigation. Police didn't even know he had marijuana in his system until recently either.
 
MHWilliams said:
Man, that's better than nothing. At least he won't be a cop anymore. Like, that's the bare minimum people are asking for, to not let bad cops have the chance to continue being bad cops.
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I would prefer that people that are caught physically assaulting another person, are tried the same way as a civilian.

He isn't immune to those laws because he is a cop.
 
CrimsonCommie said:
Doesn't the autopsy show that he didn't hit him though?
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All an autopsy can say is if there was damage to the hands. Cuts and broken fingers would be evident. Bruising or swelling may not be if there was no blood flow immediately after because of death.

Basically, no damage on hands <> no fighting 100% of the time.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
I would prefer that people that are caught physically assaulting another person, are tried the same way as a civilian.

He isn't immune to those laws because he is a cop.
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His union representative and fellow officers would like to speak to you about that attack on their due process rights.
 
Ninja Scooter said:
This guy on CNN is such a dick bag. Saying people should start arming themselves because of these scary gangsters and protesters.
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He is a dickbag. You could say I lean towards the pro-gun side of the gun control debate, as I believe people have the right to arm themselves. But saying people should start arming themselves because of these scary gangsters and protestors is fear mongering. "Oh my god honey look at all the scary black people on tv I'm so scared." It's bullshit.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
I saw the video.

Was he not assaulting that person?

Was he physically reading that woman her rights?

I can throw an "allegedly" on there for you if you like. :)



Link me your source. Thx.
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You can't put the police in double jeopardy. They already have to go through an internal investigation after 72 hours of contemplation and then face internal discipline as described in their collective bargaining agreement. You can't then try them for the same "crime" twice, especially if the investigation turns up no crime.

Police are held to a much higher standard than any civilian who doesn't have to face an internal investigation and has the media/court/lawyers all on their side.
 
Huge protest in New York right now.
@theyoungist: In #Manhattan, over 200 folks took the streets in solidarity w #Ferguson, were pushed onto the sidewalk by #NYPD. Currently in Union Sq.
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@TheAPJournalist: Protests chant in NYC in solidarity w/ #Ferguson, #Gaza, #LosAngeles, etc.: "Racist, Classist, Anti-Gay, NYPD GO AWAY!" (Via @theyoungist)
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benjipwns said:
You can't put the police in double jeopardy. They already have to go through an internal investigation after 72 hours of contemplation and then face internal discipline as described in their collective bargaining agreement. You can't then try them for the same "crime" twice, especially if the investigation turns up no crime.

Police are held to a much higher standard than any civilian who doesn't have to face an internal investigation and has the media/court/lawyers all on their side.
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And if that internal investigation shows there was misconduct, that peace officer is tried, correct?

That is my point. I'm not satisfied with him just getting summarily fired (if that even happens).

He clearly beat a woman and that is a crime last I checked.
 
ryutaro's mama said:
And if that internal investigation shows there was misconduct, that peace officer is tried, correct?

That is my point. I'm not satisfied with him just getting summarily fired (if that even happens).

He clearly beat a woman and that is a crime last I checked.
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You have to look at the fact pattern as presented for any exigent circumstances, the woman may have been suffering from excited delirum.
 
KHarvey16 said:
Perhaps because it isn't something they face often enough to make it worthwhile.
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This is a pretty weak counter-argument to the impressive difference that so many European democracies made the opposite decision as the United States, not to mention its not even true (assuming you are suggesting that Europe has little to no crime).

  • In or about 2006, there were about 60 million people in the UK as a whole, including Scotland.
  • In England and Wales alone &#8212; discounting Scotland &#8212; there were over 163 thousand knife crimes.
  • By the end of 2006, there were more than 300 million people in the US as a whole.
  • In the US as a whole, there were fewer than 400 thousand gun crimes.
  • In the UK, based on these numbers, there was one knife crime commited for every 374 people (rounded down).
  • In the US, based on these numbers, there was one gun crime committed for every 750 people &#8212; less than half a gun crime per 374 people (about 0.4987 gun crimes per 374 people, actually).
  • That means that, based on these statistics, you are more than twice as likely to be a victim of knife crime in the UK as you are to be a victim of gun crime in the US.

Statistical Sources:
UK knife crime statistics
Bureau of Justice Statistics: Crimes Committed with Firearms
RDS Crime in England and Wales 2006/2007
National Statistics Online: UK Population (England, Scotland, and Wales, excluding outlying islands)
Demographics of the United States
United States Crime Rates 1960-2007
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He is yelling for them to shoot him and he is very clearly advancing toward the officer on the left. He's headed directly to him. I think making it clear he intends to present enough of a threat to justify being shot combined with him advancing and not responding makes this a clear case of a justified use of deadly force. It's also relevant to the equation here that there are civilians in the area and no other police.
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The fact that someone is yelling at the police to shoot him, as opposed to the reverse, is a clear sign of mental illness and desire for suicide by cop (he also placed the items he supposedly robbed on the ground before the cops even showed up). It's also relevant to the equation that some of the civilians attempted to try to talk the man down before the cops showed up and were in extremely close proximity to the man without being afraid for their life. No one was running or screaming or in fear for their life. None of those civilians were in danger of being harmed, except from possible crossfire from the police.

The police also pulled up extremely close, leaving very little distance between them and the suspect. They should have stopped much farther away. They also exited their vehicle rather than trying to talk first through the windows or possible megaphone. Upon exiting the vehicle they drew their guns immediately and advanced on the suspect, rather than standing still or even moving back.

As the suspect continued walking forward, the police could have moved backwards or even reentered their vehicle. They stood their ground and then opened fire. The suspect had yet to raise his knife or increase momentum. That said upon rewatching, I noticed the ledge I thought existed was just a barrier, so there was no further obstacle between him and the officer that he would have to clear. That said, the right officer could still have backed off while allowing the left officer to keep a gun drawn in case of a lunge or aggressive motion.

Police should not be ignoring the multitude of ways they can avoid creating a scenario where deadly force might be necessary. They should not be increasing the likelihood of such a scenario. And they should not default to deadly force if the potential to deescalate safely is still present.

Consider what the police might have done if they didn't have guns. They probably would have followed more of the suggestions I made. Perhaps what Europeans realize is that the mere fact of allowing an officer to hold a gun will shape their thinking and behavior in a way that is not as conducive to peaceful resolution of conflict as the alternative. If all your training is about how and when you can shoot people, your brain is not going to default to the peaceful resolution tactics you brushed over a few times.
 
benjipwns said:
You can't put the police in double jeopardy. They already have to go through an internal investigation after 72 hours of contemplation and then face internal discipline as described in their collective bargaining agreement. You can't then try them for the same "crime" twice, especially if the investigation turns up no crime.

Police are held to a much higher standard than any civilian who doesn't have to face an internal investigation and has the media/court/lawyers all on their side.
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Lots of people wish they could be held to the higher standard of being investigated by their friends.
 
http://wilwheaton.tumblr.com/post/95301981369/mjolnirismypenis-imnothavinit-notice

This is treason. I don't use that word lightly, but that is what this is. They are following their whims rather than the law. They are oppressing the American people against their constitutional rights. No local authority can supersede the constitution. It's time to bring in the feds/military/whatever you need to stop these guys and restore the rule of U.S. law.
 
Dice said:
http://wilwheaton.tumblr.com/post/95301981369/mjolnirismypenis-imnothavinit-notice

This is treason. I don't use that word lightly, but that is what this is. They are following their whims rather than the law. They are oppressing the American people against their constitutional rights. No local authority can supersede the constitution. It's time to bring in the feds/military/whatever you need to stop these guys and restore the rule of U.S. law.
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Someone should post on that saying that without badges many of them can give whatever name they want. Like Donald Duck here http://www.thelocal.de/20140819/german-journalists-held-in-ferguson-unrest
 
Dice said:
http://wilwheaton.tumblr.com/post/95301981369/mjolnirismypenis-imnothavinit-notice

This is treason. I don't use that word lightly, but that is what this is. They are following their whims rather than the law. They are oppressing the American people against their constitutional rights. No local authority can supersede the constitution. It's time to bring in the feds/military/whatever you need to stop these guys and restore the rule of U.S. law.
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I think you'll find the feds have the same respect for a troublesome press.
 
@TheAPJournalist: It's quickly approaching midnight and tonight has been incredibly peaceful. Possibly the most peaceful night we've had so far. #Ferguson
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Protestors are much more organized now. I think that's helping quite a bit.
 
Dice said:
http://wilwheaton.tumblr.com/post/95301981369/mjolnirismypenis-imnothavinit-notice

This is treason. I don't use that word lightly, but that is what this is. They are following their whims rather than the law. They are oppressing the American people against their constitutional rights. No local authority can supersede the constitution. It's time to bring in the feds/military/whatever you need to stop these guys and restore the rule of U.S. law.
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I've been trying to point that out for at least 2 decades. Conspiracy theorist have also been pointing it out as well, although some of them may include aliens in the conspiracy.

No oversight = No control
 
Brawndo Addict said:
This is a pretty weak counter-argument to the impressive difference that so many European democracies made the opposite decision as the United States, not to mention its not even true (assuming you are suggesting that Europe has little to no crime).
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Of course not. I suggested it may be true that police are not often confronted with suspects threatening them with knives.

Brawndo Addict said:
The fact that someone is yelling at the police to shoot him, as opposed to the reverse, is a clear sign of mental illness and desire for suicide by cop (he also placed the items he supposedly robbed on the ground before the cops even showed up).
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Which can't reasonably be assumed to preclude committing violence to achieve that goal.

Brawndo Addict said:
It's also relevant to the equation that some of the civilians attempted to try to talk the man down before the cops showed up and were in extremely close proximity to the man without being afraid for their life. No one was running or screaming or in fear for their life. None of those civilians were in danger of being harmed, except from possible crossfire from the police.
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I don't know how you can possibly say they were in no danger. An assumption like that would be absolutely irresponsible.

Brawndo Addict said:
The police also pulled up extremely close, leaving very little distance between them and the suspect. They should have stopped much farther away. They also exited their vehicle rather than trying to talk first through the windows or possible megaphone. Upon exiting the vehicle they drew their guns immediately and advanced on the suspect, rather than standing still or even moving back.
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Because he had a knife and was dangerous. Again your assumption that he wouldn't actually use the knife would be a foolish one for the officers to adopt.

Brawndo Addict said:
As the suspect continued walking forward, the police could have moved backwards or even reentered their vehicle. They stood their ground and then opened fire. The suspect had yet to raise his knife or increase momentum. That said upon rewatching, I noticed the ledge I thought existed was just a barrier, so there was no further obstacle between him and the officer that he would have to clear. That said, the right officer could still have backed off while allowing the left officer to keep a gun drawn in case of a lunge or aggressive motion.

Police should not be ignoring the multitude of ways they can avoid creating a scenario where deadly force might be necessary. They should not be increasing the likelihood of such a scenario. And they should not default to deadly force if the potential to deescalate safely is still present.

Consider what the police might have done if they didn't have guns. They probably would have followed more of the suggestions I made. Perhaps what Europeans realize is that the mere fact of allowing an officer to hold a gun will shape their thinking and behavior in a way that is not as conducive to peaceful resolution of conflict as the alternative. If all your training is about how and when you can shoot people, your brain is not going to default to the peaceful resolution tactics you brushed over a few times.
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Yet most such incidents are resolved peacefully, even in the states. That some are not resolved this way, either in the US or in Europe, is not necessarily a indictment of the officers involved. You mentioned last post the differences, subtle and otherwise, than can shape what is the appropriate response.

I think these officers took the action that was safest for them and those civilians in the area. I don't think assuming this man was harmless is justified or safe.
 
jamesinclair said:
We had this conversation. And you are wrong. Meaning youre the one without a clue.

2-foot machete. Drunk. Threatening. A sword in his other hand.

http://i.imgur.com/K6lfP1o.jpg?1[IMG]



[url]http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/8523151/Police-tackle-machete-wielding-man-with-wheelie-bin.html[/url]

WATCH THE VIDEO

They took him down with their batons and a trash can.



bu bu bu Europe. Europe is special. Theres no crime in Europe.

Try this on for size



I have a feeling St Louis police would have shot him 22 times earlier

[url]http://www.nj.com/hudson/index.ssf/2014/08/bayonne_machete-wielding_teenager_jose_ortiz_jr_police_crime_arrest_august_20_2014.html[/url][/QUOTE]

uh, for the first 90% of the video the cops are running away from him around cars. if he really wanted to he could have easily rushed the police and maimed/killed some. they only take him down when 30+ rush at him with riot shields, not a trash can and batons.
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BviDzP6IUAE5-05.jpg
 
antonz said:
Officer Wilson must have amazing healing powers to be beaten so badly have fractured bones in his skull etc. and still stand around bullshitting with another cop before he ran off and never filed a report.

Even more impressive after such a horrible beating to be out mowing his front yard until he was told its time to leave town.

Even more amazing a police"source" suddenly talks to all the media repeating all these details that first surfaced off some bigoted blog the day before
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Honestly, if there are legit X-rays and MRI's that back up a supposed injury, you can fuck off about your post. Those X-rays and MRI's haven't been produced, but since you are obviously not a Radiologist or Orthopedist, you don't have much room to stand on how the supposedly injured should react. Just wait til the evidence is produced.
 
Were those three people all arrested or just "detained"?


justified agitator &#8207;@Awkward_Duck 3m

Hearing that cops are telling community members they can no longer meet at the church, our designated safe space.
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Volimar said:
Were those three people all arrested or just "detained"?
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On the one hand, I could ask what the difference is, on the other hand it probably wasn't a good idea for me to post that right before going to bed because I'm so tired. They were all reported as arrested and I know the first two were in pictures in handcuffs being escorted away. The image just caught me off guard and me do a sort of "oh so true but wrong" laugh.

If it causes any issues, sorry in advance, it just struck a chord with me.
 
Cat said:
On the one hand, I could ask what the difference is, on the other hand it probably wasn't a good idea for me to post that right before going to bed because I'm so tired. They were all reported as arrested and I know the first two were in pictures in handcuffs being escorted away. The image just caught me off guard and me do a sort of "oh so true but wrong" laugh.

If it causes any issues, sorry in advance, it just struck a chord with me.
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Well it really is a difference without distinction. I was just curious.
 
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