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Legend of Korra Book 3: Change |OT| SCHEDULEBENDING
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I didn't feel books 1 or 2 really had deus ex machina in the real original Avatar. I guess you can make the argument 1 sort of did, but it felt narratively compelling enough that I bought it. Definitely the season 3 finale of ATLA was deus ex machina though, plus both seasons 1 and 2 of Korra.
Well, it's not like they won in book 2.
I don't think the deus ex machina in ATLA wasn't that bad, since it was just about not killing Ozai. I think even without the turtle Aang could've killed Ozai and after 100 years of war no one besides Aang himself would've really cared. So the fight was won on way or the other, it just helped to give it a more positive note and an additional moral win.
That's far different from what happened in Korra S2, where without the deus ex machina, everything would've been lost for a while.
And yeah ATLA book 2, had no Deus Ex Machine, the protagonist got kicked in the teeth hard.
That's far different from what happened in Korra S2, where without the deus ex machina, everything would've been lost for a while.
And yeah ATLA book 2, had no Deus Ex Machine, the protagonist got kicked in the teeth hard.
I was only counting Korra but yeah I suppose it sort of is an expected thing from them now.
I wouldn't even be that mad if Toph showed up at this point and defeated Zaheer
But does it involve pegging
Has anyone listened to the Nerdist podcast Mike & Bryan were on? They made a good point about Korra and what we think of it:
Basically, as they made Avatar, they got a metric shit ton of complaints about whatever. However, once the show ended people could see the whole package and everyone called it (and pretty much still do) perfect, even if he doesn't think it was perfect. Now that Korra is airing, he's getting pretty much the same volume of complaints with the sane amount of vitrol.
I have to agree with him. I remember the bitching about how Season 3 of Avatar was so bad compared to S2, and now I never see that compliant.
Basically, as they made Avatar, they got a metric shit ton of complaints about whatever. However, once the show ended people could see the whole package and everyone called it (and pretty much still do) perfect, even if he doesn't think it was perfect. Now that Korra is airing, he's getting pretty much the same volume of complaints with the sane amount of vitrol.
I have to agree with him. I remember the bitching about how Season 3 of Avatar was so bad compared to S2, and now I never see that compliant.
it is entirely okay as a writer to leave what happened open to a certain amount of interpretation
it is entirely NOT okay to have no fucking idea yourself what you just wrote
Infinite Justice
Member
now this is something i would watch LOL
I don't agree with him at all. The way Korra is aired and paced is fundamentally different to the way atla was, and this extends to the way that it week be looked back upon as well.
Besides, s3 of atla was rightfully complained about when it was airing, partially because it was a step down from the sublime s2 and partially because nick absolutely firefly'd the airing schedule
Yep final two episodes for Book 3 go up on Nick at 12 PM eastern Friday.
But just know also that its more than likely Amazon will put the final episodes out pretty early so there may be a lot of spoilers floating around on Friday morning about the finale.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think it would have been good to introduce it in season 1. It felt like the darkest of the bending arts, something not easily used or accessed. Introduced differently in season 3, yes, but certainly not in season 1.
Yeah, I'm gonna need to kill the Earth Queen...*slurps coffee* That'd be greaaaaaaat...
Icyflamez96
Member
I liked the ending events of season 2 up to the giant monster battle and the whatever the heck Jinora did. I didn't know people had a problem with Korra leaving the spirit portals open. I thought it was an interesting way for the plot to go.
Sweet, thank you very much.
I need to catch up on TMNT, so it will give me some time beforehand.
darkazcura
Member
I don't know if I really agree anymore. Beginnings (even though it aired during Korra) really cleared up the finale of ATLA. I read somewhere in this thread that the creators have been planning Beginnings since Book 2 of ATLA, but for whatever reason didn't air it during ATLA.
My girlfriend is currently watching ATLA for the first time, and I almost want her to watch a little of Beginnings before the Book 3 finale, lol.
When I think of Deux Ex Machina endings I think of endings that literally make no sense and were just created because the writers were lazy. If the idea of lion turtles giving and taking away bending existed in the minds of the creators since Book 2 of ATLA then I really have no issue with it anymore, especially since they fleshed out the lore so well in Beginnings.
No shit, I agree with you. But those people who complained about it before are almost completely nonexistent.
CreeperBlocks
Banned
...Wow Then why even put her in there in the first place... It's the only part in season Two which didn't make sense and felt out of place.
The ending of ATLA is kind of a mess anyway, even if you want to say that lion turtles out of nowhere don't count as an ass-pull because the idea got fleshed out five years later.
I mean, season 3 of ATLA is all about shades of gray. A whole bunch of episodes are about the way war compromises people who started out as unambiguously good ("The Puppetmaster" and "The Southern Raiders" are particularly notable). Obviously it also spends a lot of time trying to show that there are real humans in the Fire Nation besides just Zuko and Iroh, and that even Sozin didn't start out so bad. From the very start of the season, this is all clearly leading up to Aang having to choose between his duty as Avatar and what he feels is right.
The lion turtle is intended to be a way for the show to totally punt on this. Aang has a dilemma. It's the central dilemma of the season and perhaps of the series. And then the lion turtle short-circuits it by offering him what's presented as an as-good-as-killing solution to the Ozai problem with none of the guilt, without any of the characters even having to do any work to get there.
Worse, Aang should feel guilty - what he did was monstrous, by his own lights. Killing Ozai might have been more merciful. It's obvious even in ATLA that, for many benders, bending is an important part of who they are. Any of the characters we get to know would be devastated if they got spirit-bent. Toph is obviously a bit of a special case, but her losing her bending would be clearly worse than anyone else losing their eyes. The Legend of Korra makes this dynamic pretty clear - in season 1, people who lose their bending are basically dead men walking. Several people seem like suicide risks. So the lion turtle fails to actually punt on Aang's dilemma - it's worse than that, because Aang ends up choosing the Kyoshi approach without intending to choose.
Finally, season 3 of ATLA makes clear on a few occasions that imprisoning powerful benders is thought to be perfectly feasible. Nobody is particularly concerned about the prospect of keeping Hama or Iroh in prison, although obviously they both escape once. There's a two-parter which is all about a major Fire Nation prison. In the finale, Katara captures Azula (without the benefit of the Avatar State, even) and she's presumably locked up somewhere rather than executed or spirit-bent. Meanwhile, Aang successfully renders Ozai harmless, and only then does he spiritually torture his enemy.
Also the kiss is way creepy.
I mean, season 3 of ATLA is all about shades of gray. A whole bunch of episodes are about the way war compromises people who started out as unambiguously good ("The Puppetmaster" and "The Southern Raiders" are particularly notable). Obviously it also spends a lot of time trying to show that there are real humans in the Fire Nation besides just Zuko and Iroh, and that even Sozin didn't start out so bad. From the very start of the season, this is all clearly leading up to Aang having to choose between his duty as Avatar and what he feels is right.
The lion turtle is intended to be a way for the show to totally punt on this. Aang has a dilemma. It's the central dilemma of the season and perhaps of the series. And then the lion turtle short-circuits it by offering him what's presented as an as-good-as-killing solution to the Ozai problem with none of the guilt, without any of the characters even having to do any work to get there.
Worse, Aang should feel guilty - what he did was monstrous, by his own lights. Killing Ozai might have been more merciful. It's obvious even in ATLA that, for many benders, bending is an important part of who they are. Any of the characters we get to know would be devastated if they got spirit-bent. Toph is obviously a bit of a special case, but her losing her bending would be clearly worse than anyone else losing their eyes. The Legend of Korra makes this dynamic pretty clear - in season 1, people who lose their bending are basically dead men walking. Several people seem like suicide risks. So the lion turtle fails to actually punt on Aang's dilemma - it's worse than that, because Aang ends up choosing the Kyoshi approach without intending to choose.
Finally, season 3 of ATLA makes clear on a few occasions that imprisoning powerful benders is thought to be perfectly feasible. Nobody is particularly concerned about the prospect of keeping Hama or Iroh in prison, although obviously they both escape once. There's a two-parter which is all about a major Fire Nation prison. In the finale, Katara captures Azula (without the benefit of the Avatar State, even) and she's presumably locked up somewhere rather than executed or spirit-bent. Meanwhile, Aang successfully renders Ozai harmless, and only then does he spiritually torture his enemy.
Also the kiss is way creepy.
it makes sense now course but its retcon like 5-6 years after the fact
Even if they said it was in there minds since book 2 it was implemented in the worse way
Lion-turtles were foreshadowed in season 2 and there were enough theories about them on the internet back in the day that when it showed up in season 3 I wasn't so much as surprised as I was reminded of them.
I don't see how did lion-turtle failed to give Aang a way out of his dilemma. Ozai had to be stopped, but Aang didn't want to kill him, so he took away his bending, essentially making him a non-threat. Ozai was then imprisoned, with his titles and power stripped from him, finally ending the war that had killed countless people.
If I were to complain, I would have complained about how Aang got an easy way out without having to really sacrifice anything to beat Ozai, but considering it's a Nick show, I can't fault the show for not doing that.
really good points. i think that was what seriously bothered me more than the chakra bullshit happening at the end of the show. what i like a lot about korra is that it deals with these repercussions and shows that what aang did wasn't a total good thing, but i agree it sucks that he as a character seems fine with doing that shit. maybe that is him being slightly corrupted by war? i don't know. korra aang seems to be kind of messed up.
...yeah, it felt like it was there for the fans, when it didn't earlier in the day of black sun, where he kisses her and flies off. it actually seemed like a spur of the moment thing then and actually spoke to his confidence that day.
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Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I don't think you can just jail Ozai in the same way you can jail Zaheer or Iroh. Ozai isn't just a political ideologue with a small following, or an individually dangerous bender, he is the leader of an entire Empire which has just subjugated the known world. He is popular in the Fire Nation, and if you just left him a uniquely powerful and intelligent bender but locked him away, then people will attempt to restore him to the throne, you'll see the Fire nation fighting onwards for their Lord and ruler, and it'd look much like how the White Army fought on in the Russian civil war. Aang had to end Ozai's ability to be a figurehead permanently; and taking away his bending permanently did that, making him unfit to rule in the eyes of a nation for which firebending acumen was valued above all else - hence the relationship between Ozai, Azula and Zuko.
That said, I do think the weight of what he was doing should have had more impact on Aang, insofar as how awful it is to take away someone's bending. It's akin to blinding them or cutting off a hand, removing a uniquely important ability that is also part of their identity. It shouldn't have been presented as an easy way out, but a particularly difficult choice. So, I agree with you on that note. I also think introducing energy-bending a little earlier might have helped set up the Legend of Korra a little better, by showing how terrible former benders feel without bending - and then expanding upon that by showing how non-benders feel about never having been able to bend, to set up the Equalist movement with more weight.
It's also an overly saturated/contrasted tumblr gif with ghosting. The lighting is not that pronounced in the actual show.
Icyflamez96
Member
Oh my god @ the LoK facebook post
https://www.facebook.com/legendofko...09978.209565489060052/938722259477701/?type=1
https://www.facebook.com/legendofko...09978.209565489060052/938722259477701/?type=1
Whoever runs that facebook page is such a master troll.
What is there to see? I can't access the content.
Anyone with a screenshot?
Admiral Woofington
Member
This seems like more of the ATLA season 2 finale trolling.
Where they kept going like "watch the season finale where emotions will run high and the unexpected will happen!" and then they show a scene of Zuko and Katara really close in that jail cell where Katara is reaching to his face. Completely out of context trolling that caused the Zutara fans to go all
Maybe he will get killed off, who knows?
Rebel Leader
THE POWER OF BUTTERSCOTCH BOTTOMS
Judging from the lack of spoilers... I am disappointed thst no episode leaked
Admiral Woofington
Member
we wait one more day right? One more day before I know if I'll be forced to switch my avatar. Since nobody in Group Demise took an avatar bet though, then it might be up to the community to decide what each one of us here who made a bet should switch their avatar to.
The Lion Turtle is more of Aang's own personal concsious as the other Avatars don't know what it is and Aang cannot bend anything there. He then sits and goes and asks himself what he should do and it shows the past Avatars are him and give varying opinions. The Lion Turtle is part of Aang (how it seems to be written) and acts as a reinforcement to his own beliefs. They essentially come to an understanding of each other and he is taken to where he has to go.
The problem is Ozai didn't see bending as a way to improve himself. He saw it as a way to assert control and dominance over others. Toph, Katara, Aang, etc. they used bending to improve their lives and those around them like most other benders (even if some were misguided like the Dai Li). Bending was a way to improve the world. Sozin and Ozai saw it differently and abused the power given to them. They didn't deserve to bend for what they did. Same with Jackone.
Azula was put into a mental ward and eventually escape but then is never heard from again. She's more misguided and broken than evil.
a different hat for your dog. but not too different. maybe a playing card is attached. that would really show the aristocracy.
Pai Pai Master
Banned
i'm going to cry like a bitch if tenzen dies, that's all I know
WrenchNinja
Member
"To bend another's energy, your own spirit must be unbendable, or you will be corrupted and destroyed."
He risked his own life to do it.
He meant morally difficult, given that Aang didn't like hurting people and what he was doing was at least as serious as chopping off Ozai's hands. Although it's also not like Aang really acts like he's worried about not being able to pull it off, and the audience isn't worried at all even when the red light is spreading over Aang.
Edit:
To be clear, I'm not saying that it was wrong to not just throw Ozai in jail. Ozai's going to be the go-to example in Avatar-land for time travel assassination thought experiments. My big issue with what happened is that spirit bending is presented as a way for Aang to permanently deal with Ozai without guilt, but it doesn't make sense for Aang to not feel guilty about bending Ozai, because it's actually a pretty brutal thing to do and Aang's got hangups about hurting people. Aang is not a soldier at heart.
If we're going for time travel thought experiments then the idea of people losing their identity when losing bending is one of those as well.
Taking away someone's bending isn't brutal. It can be perceived as brutal. It seems more fair and balanced. Also, Ozai did go to prison afterward. This was a way to stop the Fire Lord. He wasn't going to just give up and stop the war when the Avatar got his full power. Doesn't strike me as a person to just do that as he seems he deserves the world with his delusions of power.
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