Support NeoGAF

[The_R3medy]

As far as I understand, /v/ is not taking responsibility for this, and I worry they're just being made into a scapegoat here for someone else's actions. Like 4chan can be assholes at times, but I doubt they would even go this far.

 

[unbias]

As far as I understand, /v/ is not taking responsibility for this, and I worry they're just being made into a scapegoat here for someone else's actions. Like 4chan can be assholes at times, but I doubt they would even go this far.

A lot of the time it isnt "4chan" anyways, it is some hacker taking advantage of the 4chan mob outrage so they can flaunt their "power".

 

[Orayn]

As far as I understand, /v/ is not taking responsibility for this, and I worry they're just being made into a scapegoat here for someone else's actions. Like 4chan can be assholes at times, but I doubt they would even go this far.

I wouldn't even say they're being scapegoated, the references to them were blatantly wrong to the point that they were almost certainly tongue in cheek. One or more of the people responsible have some connection to /v/ and 4chan and may harbor the kind of "anti-SJW" attitudes as a lot of other people there, but that's about it.

 

[chaosaeon]

It's pretty much high school-tier bullshit when you "care" about a sexually active woman's activities or really anyone's sexual activity for that matter.

I've seen a lot of crazy information posted about that stuff though, including that one or more of the guys were already married or in relationships at the time (don't know if true). I'm just wondering how much of all of this is real or not. I'm not giving an opinion I just would like a known fact list for some of this. If it's considered inflammatory let me know and I will edit the post if I'm not supposed to mention any of these things. I would just like to keep informed so I don't make any wrong assumptions and I couldn't find answers to some of these things anywhere.

Was that bit true about her getting some kind of charity game project for women cancelled while promoting something similar of her own ? Or the bit about using Robin Williams death to promote her game ? Or the claim of using relationships within the industry to manipulate press coverage and take down information about it ? I can't keep up with the resolutions to all the little details like the accusations of faked harassment or when people said she lied about her email being hacked etc. I don't see what her cheating on partners that were already in relationships or married has to do with games unless the bits about using those actions to influence people within the industry are true. Again if these are things that have been answered, link me please, or tell me if I need to change anything about this post that is crossing any lines.

 

[GillianSeed79]

Ugh. Gross. The internet can really be a vile and disgusting place sometimes, especially people who take video games way too seriously sometimes. It's a wonder people go through all the trouble making games in the first place if this is what is going to happen. This is right after Fez 2 was confirmed right? At this point, I wouldn't blame him for cancelling it again, or maybe that's what these dick heads want?

 

[Steve Youngblood]

I felt like I had a good handle on what this drama was all about as of about a day ago. But I've been pretty busy the last 24 hours and holy crap am I at a loss now.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

Social media means you don't have to actively visit the sites. In fact I'd wager the majority of people who argue about those articles, pro and con, never actually click through.

It still strikes me as inexplicable given that friends and follows are voluntary; when people post racist things on Facebook, I remove them. I don't think this is anything particularly new, there have always been people who go out of their way to start a fight. I guess I just feel like the escalating reactions from people could be so easily avoided, lest we all start seeing rapists and feminist strawmen around every corner.

I guess it's like the other poster replied, the medium makes escalation so fast and easy that shit gets out of hand before anyone knows what the hell happened.

I'd argue that basic logic also dictates that the sheer number of bans that actually have occurred within the last several days is a perfect validation of the fact that people who legitimately do engage in bigotry amass themselves on the forum frequently and consistently. My argument was never meant to assert that strict moderation was useless or pointless, but I strongly doubt it establishes this place as some massively safe haven in comparison to places like /v/, particularly when you consider the fact that people engaging in this kind of behavior have a tendency to flock everywhere on the net to express an opinion. This is especially true when it comes to a forum with a rather large reputation for tolerance like NeoGAF. I'm not sure if you're trying to imply that the occurrence of these bans put a major stop to the issue or what, but I seriously don't feel like it does.

If you genuinely think that telling you to grow up is anywhere nearly as off-base or personally insulting as some random attempt to convince yourself that I have some kind of deeply emotional obsession with you, you're being hilariously dense and dramatic.

Well, I disagree with you obviously. And thanks again for being insulting while simultaneously attempting to claim you're being insulted on a deep and personal level.

 

[unbias]

I've seen a lot of crazy information posted about that stuff though, including that one or more of the guys were already married or in relationships at the time (don't know if true). I'm just wondering how much of all of this is real or not. I'm not giving an opinion I just would like a known fact list for some of this. If it's considered inflammatory let me know and I will edit the post if I'm not supposed to mention any of these things. I would just like to keep informed so I don't make any wrong assumptions and I couldn't find answers to some of these things anywhere.

Was that bit true about getting some kind of charity game project for women cancelled while promoting something similar of her own ? Or the bit about using Robin Williams death to promote her game ? Or the claim of using relationships within the industry to manipulate press coverage and take down information about it ? I can't keep up with the resolutions to all the little details like the accusations of faked harassment etc. Again if these are things that have been answered, link me please, or tell me if I need to change anything about this post that is crossing any lines.

It really doesn't matter, she has barely passed the no name label. She isnt getting rich off of this and the other people involved deserve even less attention. Being interested in her(assuming she did everything that was said) just gives her undeserving publicity and also empowers the idea of open diary'ing your skeletons. That said, if you are curious, I'd either google it or PM someone who seems to know about it, since I'm pretty sure talking in depth about quinn would be a derail.

 

[Frolow]

I wouldn't even say they're being scapegoated, the references to them were blatantly wrong to the point that they were almost certainly tongue in cheek. One or more of the people responsible have some connection to /v/ and 4chan and may harbor the kind of "anti-SJW" attitudes as a lot of other people there, but that's about it.

Exactly. I've been browsing /v/ for the past few days and I never saw a thread about them trying to collectively hack or insight a raid against Polytron.

 

[Damaniel]

I felt like I had a good handle on what this drama was all about as of about a day ago. But I've been pretty busy the last 24 hours and holy crap am I at a loss now.

You and me both.

 

[vagabondarts]

I felt like I had a good handle on what this drama was all about as of about a day ago. But I've been pretty busy the last 24 hours and holy crap am I at a loss now.

Same here.

 

[Derphoof]

I felt like I had a good handle on what this drama was all about as of about a day ago. But I've been pretty busy the last 24 hours and holy crap am I at a loss now.

This is how I imagine most people just walking in on this, like I did last night:

 

[Htown]

I felt like I had a good handle on what this drama was all about as of about a day ago. But I've been pretty busy the last 24 hours and holy crap am I at a loss now.

It's about the same thing it was always about

People being gigantic assholes on the internet

 

[Pyccko]

Man, what the hell happened? Just read the whole thread, head in hands, sadness mounting. My heart goes out to Phil and Zoe (and Renaud). Nobody deserves to have their lives torn down over some internet shit. When I started following Fish's exploits back with the Japanese games episode, I just figured he was a silly fucker, but he grew on me,and to see him just totally beaten into submission like this is really making me want a ticket off this garbage heap planet. All these shitpigs desperately clutching to their notions of fakery should be ashamed.

Hope everybody gets their lives back in order, and sad as I am to see him duck out, I really hope Fish lives happier by getting away.

 

[Thorakai]

This is how I imagine most people just walking in on this, like I did last night:

Basically. Is this still about some supposed damage to the integrity gaming journalism?

 

[QaaQer]

I firmly believe that the biggest problem, and one of the hardest changes to make, is the mentality that people on the internet are "less real". Human decency disappears when you become convinced that you aren't interacting with a person, or you just stop caring about that fact. You see it from every side and it's behavior that has been perpetuated and more or less accepted.

There is that, but there is also the human tendency to form absolute judgements of people they do not know based on the smallest of things, like out of context tweets, or clothing or facial hair.

I'm not even sure who I am, I'm not going to judge someone else as 'complete asshole' because they tweet insults after being insulted, or make lad jokes about Japanese console games.

 

[Swifty]

Does it even matter if /v/, Reddit, or MRAs or whoever was responsible for this hack and doxxing? The fact of the matter is all those guys involved fomented this culture and frenzy of hate, retribution, and paranoia that it incited someone to such excessive action.

 

[chaosaeon]

It really doesn't matter, she has barely passed the no name label. She isnt getting rich off of this and the other people involved deserve even less attention. Being interested in her(assuming she did everything that was said) just gives her undeserving publicity and also empowers the idea of open diary'ing your skeletons. That said, if you are curious, I'd either google it or PM someone who seems to know about it, since I'm pretty sure talking in depth about quinn would be a derail.

If someone can PM me info about the questions in my post I'll happily leave it out of here unless a mod okays this. I'm not looking to change the topic, I'd just like some more information on what appears to be a part of the fuse that set this bomb in motion and I haven't heard any of those things concluded as fact or fiction yet. Mod input ?

 

[Averon]

Exactly. I've been browsing /v/ for the past few days and I never saw a thread about them trying to collectively hack or insight a raid against Polytron.

/v/ was actually harmlessly joking about hacking after Adam Sessler sent out that tweet and picture at the bar. Reading the threads last night, you couldn't read them and think /v/ was seriously attempting to hack any one, much less Phil Fish/Polytron.

 

[Orayn]

Basically. Is this still about some supposed damage to the integrity gaming journalism?

That was the supposed main argument when everything was still about Zoe, but whoever did this seems to have given up on concern trolling and gone on the offensive against some imagined feminist conspiracy.

Does it even matter if /v/, Reddit, or MRAs or whoever was responsible for this hack and doxxing? The fact of the matter is all those guys involved fomented this culture and frenzy of hate, retribution, and paranoia that it incited someone to such excessive action.

Also true.

 

[QaaQer]

Basically. Is this still about some supposed damage to the integrity gaming journalism?

also a bit of self reflection about the gaming community.

 

[silentQ]

I heard elsewhere that people are investigating who did this to Phil with some people also checking into if Phil did this to himself to get sympathy...is this a real thing are people actually thinking this? Just looking for some information.

 

[mgs2master2]

Are they THAT good at covering their tracks

 

[Marlowe89]

And thanks again for being insulting while simultaneously attempting to claim you're being insulted on a deep and personal level.

That's a pretty awful lack of reading comprehension on your part, then. An "if and then" argument is just an "if and then" argument, not some direct deep personal attack on your character.

 

[CambriaRising]

I felt like I had a good handle on what this drama was all about as of about a day ago. But I've been pretty busy the last 24 hours and holy crap am I at a loss now.

Its been a rough week for this sort of thing. As an outside party watching it unfold has been exhausting, I can only imagine what it must be like to be involved. Terrible.

 

[yaesir]

This is how I imagine most people just walking in on this, like I did last night:

Pretty much my reaction, but honestly the only thing I want to know if the sale of Fez's IP is true and who is going to get it.

 

[Orayn]

I heard elsewhere that people are investigating elsewhere who did this to Phil with some people also checking into if Phil did this to himself to get sympathy...is this a real thing are people actually thinking this? Just looking for some information.

Yep, calling this a "false flag" is part of the "feminist/SJW/indie hipster conspiracy" narrative that a disturbing number of people are buying into.

 

[LUFTRAUSER]

.

 

[El Sloth]

I felt like I had a good handle on what this drama was all about as of about a day ago. But I've been pretty busy the last 24 hours and holy crap am I at a loss now.

I'm catching up right now. This reddit post has been helpful: http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2e9cyn/phil_fish_deletes_twitter_account_after_polytron/

despite the shit comments.

 

[jim-jam bongs]

That was the supposed main argument when everything was still about Zoe, but whoever did this seems to have given up on concern trolling and gone on the offensive against some imagined feminist conspiracy.

That's a pretty awful lack of reading comprehension on your part, then. An "if and then" argument is just an "if and then" argument, not some direct deep personal attack on your character.

So I'm illiterate too now? Damn, you just won't stop until I'm bleeding out.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I felt like I had a good handle on what this drama was all about as of about a day ago. But I've been pretty busy the last 24 hours and holy crap am I at a loss now.

Likewise. I had no idea this wasn't a purely isolated thing.

 

[Guri]

I don't see why someone would think Zoe wanted to promote Depression Quest because of Robin Williams's death. First of all, it's a free game on Steam. And if you want to pay it, you can pay as much as you want. Second of all, she had already submitted the game to Valve before it all happened and it was only approved on the same day. She only decided to publish it because she thought it was important to help people with depression or that want to understand. And she was right there, because I learned a lot about it, not having depression but knowing people who have it.

 

[antibolo]

Oh for fuck's sake. There's no such thing as a "leader of 4chan and Anonymous".

They're just diverting people's attention elsewhere. And it's working.

 

[unbias]

Get with the times, it's all about onion routing and Tor, now.

 

[fader]

I'm catching up right now. This reddit post has been helpful: http://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comments/2e9cyn/phil_fish_deletes_twitter_account_after_polytron/

despite the shit comments.

i can't skimp through that... almost all the top comments are tin hat conspiracy theories.

 

[ValeYard]

I felt like I had a good handle on what this drama was all about as of about a day ago. But I've been pretty busy the last 24 hours and holy crap am I at a loss now.

Yep, it's blown up way beyond my perspective and I don't expect there'll be any clarity soon, especially because it's a mix of professional and very private matters.

 

[RicoTheMad]

Honestly, this goes for aspiring gamedevs as well.

I normally don't talk about it on GAF, especially since I'm too busy with other stuff going on right now to really show anything of note, but I absolutely love games and I've put a fair bit of effort in during my free time learning how to make them. I've even had the first hints of the feeling of seeing someone enjoy what you make.

The more shit I see, the more I wonder if it's even worth it. The industry is terrible, and the internet is a hatred spreading mess. I feel like I'm better off continuing with what I'm currently doing, which will end up with me doing more scientific programming, than I would be if I actually tried to follow my own interests and make games. Less shit to deal with.

I've been working on my game for 2 and a half+ years. I've done some conferences, talked to other devs, gotten a few game jam games (not this one, this one is my baby and hasn't been released) written up about on major game sites and gotten let's plays by youtubers (always fun to see your 100 hit a day page get 5k hits in an hour because of Markiplier).

It's a hard path to walk, specially if you are doing it like me, full time job, family, spare time dev with no funding. But at the end of the day, you're not really just making games for other people. You should be making them for yourself.

I love the stuff I work on. I'm making a game I want to play and was surprised that other people wanted it too. So it's a commercial thing now, but only because people asked for it. However even if everyone turned on me and decided they hated it, I'd still finish it and play it. Because I just want to.

So if you want to do it because you love it, do it. Keep at it and don't let the drama dissuade you. Shield yourself from it. It only involves you if yo let it. If you're doing it because you think you'll be a rockstar or make tons of money: Don't. Quit while you're ahead, it isn't worth it. You lose years of your life, mental health, money and sometimes happiness for gamedev. If you don't have something to balance the scales out for those, that's a strong enough motivator for you, just be happy doing what you do, or keep it as a hobby forever.

Gamedev is a productive hobby. It's the most fun and yet most frustrating programming I've ever done. I don't think I'll ever stop, whether people hate me or not. But it isn't for everyone, that's for sure.

Source: My game which I've been slaving away at for 2 and a half years

 

[Xando]

I felt like I had a good handle on what this drama was all about as of about a day ago. But I've been pretty busy the last 24 hours and holy crap am I at a loss now.

Yeah same, went to sleep last night and thought drama is finally over but everything just blew up while i was asleep.

 

[El Sloth]

i can't skimp through that... almost all the top comments are tin hat conspiracy theories.

I did warn that the comments were shit

Phil's tweets are the most helpful thing in that link.

 

[JackDT]

Exactly. Everyone I know in the scene or everyone I follow or look up to as inspiration are now feeling like they need to step on eggshells when creating the things they love. It's totally heartbreaking. It makes me seriously question why I wanted to make games in the first place, why any of this is worth it when I see tweets like Olly's. Eugh. Can't give up though.

Seriously. I always knew there were plenty of people who get off being as hurtful as they can out there, but I never remembered them so loud on so many 'mainstream' places.

I think of this excerpt explains a lot more than Phil Fish:

The hatred leaves no room for reconsideration. People have to commit to it. You can't publicly, repeatedly, encourage someone to commit suicide and later reevaluate -- think, maybe they aren't an asshole -- without then thinking well if they aren't an asshole, *I* must have been. It becomes psychologically necessary to keep hating.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PmTUW-owa2w&t=12m49s

 

[SummitAve]

Woah just catching up.... This is seriously fucked up. Hope Phil is doing alright, I'd be so angry, and scared...Jeez I can't even imagine.

 

[Deitus]

I've seen a lot of crazy information posted about that stuff though, including that one or more of the guys were already married or in relationships at the time (don't know if true). I'm just wondering how much of all of this is real or not. I'm not giving an opinion I just would like a known fact list for some of this. If it's considered inflammatory let me know and I will edit the post if I'm not supposed to mention any of these things. I would just like to keep informed so I don't make any wrong assumptions and I couldn't find answers to some of these things anywhere.

Was that bit true about her getting some kind of charity game project for women cancelled while promoting something similar of her own ? Or the bit about using Robin Williams death to promote her game ? Or the claim of using relationships within the industry to manipulate press coverage and take down information about it ? I can't keep up with the resolutions to all the little details like the accusations of faked harassment or when people said she lied about her email being hacked etc. I don't see what her cheating on partners that were already in relationships or married has to do with games unless the bits about using those actions to influence people within the industry are true. Again if these are things that have been answered, link me please, or tell me if I need to change anything about this post that is crossing any lines.

Of the information being thrown around about Zoe Quinn, some of it is likely true, while the vast majority is exaggerations and outright fabrications.

We know for sure that Zoe Quinn has an ex-boyfriend, who extremely publicly accused her of infidelity. Some of the details that came out indicate she may have had a relationship with a Kotaku writer, who has written nothing significant about her or her game. Beyond that there's really nothing to know. Everything else is just wild speculation, or private matters that we have no business butting into.

Why should it matter to you that she may have had an affair with a married man? That has no impact on us whatsoever.

The accusations of her "ruining" a charity even ultimately came down to she said something critical of an event that ultimately failed. Absolutely blown out of proportion.

She did release her game in the wake of Robin Williams death, and directly referenced it in the release announcement. It is a game about dealing with depression, and it was highly topical in the wake of a high profile suicide, and she was likely hoping to spread awareness about depression. It's hard to paint it as a way to make money off his death when her game is FREE.

The accusations of using sex to manipulate people into promoting her game are complete and utter fabrications. People took the Kotaku writer connection and just started extrapolating to infinity.

 

[Ikuu]

i can't skimp through that... almost all the top comments are tin hat conspiracy theories.

You don't have it set to Top then, the only one I saw was someone copying the info from /v/.

 

[forest]

This is shitty and all and I do feel bad for this Phil Fish dude, even if he does appear to be a huge ass.

I can't be the only one who google mapped his address just to see what this dude's house looks like. I didn't do anymore than that, I just wanted to see if the Fez cash got him a nice house

 

[JackDT]

Oh for fuck's sake. There's no such thing as a "leader of 4chan and Anonymous".

They're just diverting people's attention elsewhere. And it's working.

It's you who are being diverted -- everyone knows this because it's so obvious and irrelevant. No kidding the 'head moderator' of 'V' was a joke, really? Thank you Sherlock. It doesn't matter what sites the hacker visited. What difference does it make, what does it change?

What I do care about is the reaction of communities to these stories and the tenor of their conversations. I've seen the discussion. And it makes me too question why I even have hobbiest game projects.

 

[Marlowe89]

They're just diverting people's attention elsewhere. And it's working.

Are you referring to 4chan or the alleged victims?

So I'm illiterate too now? Damn, you just won't stop until I'm bleeding out.

I don't see how pointing out a lack of reading comprehension for one specific incident is calling you an illiterate person in general, but good job misconstruing things I guess.

 

[SummitAve]

Are you referring to 4chan or the alleged victims?



I don't see how pointing out a lack of reading comprehension for one specific incident is calling you an illiterate person in general, but good job misconstruing things I guess.

Give him a break, he's illiterate!

 

[ampere]

What the... who cares what his personal opinions are? This is super messed up. Not like Phil hacked anyone.

Hope he and the rest of Polytron can get this stuff resolved : /

 

[The Blackrose]

This is how I imagine most people just walking in on this, like I did last night:

A mix of that and the classic Anchorman "Well now, that escalated quickly" moment.

 

[Glass Shark]

*snip*

This has been posted several times already, and it's already been proven false. CloudFlare is not a host, they are a caching layer you put in front of your site to protect it from traffic spikes or other problems. CloudFlare's security is irrelevant in all of this if the actual host itself was compromised.