Support NeoGAF

[DangerMouse]

Next season totally has to have old lady toph in it.

Totally, there's no way they mentioned her and her status only for her not to show up

I watched both series and prefer Brotherhood all the way. The original is fucking great, too.

Yeah, though I also agree both are fantastic.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Isn't that because they just didn't want to do too much of the same content?

I only watched Brotherhood and I don't feel like I missed anything. Take that as you will. From what I've read in the original there's more

Spoiler

characterization of Hughes? But I didn't really notice, I still felt sad.

Largely yes. In Brotherhood they still cover what happened in the beginning, just not as linearly or as fleshed out as the original show. But you really don't miss anything if you only watched Brotherhood.

As to the spoiler no. It goes in a different direction with that character, but one isn't more fleshed out than the other.

 

[Elfforkusu]

If you only can watch one, watch Brotherhood. The only thing you "miss" is that the first act of the series is a bit rushed (episodes 2-10). Everything after that is wonderful.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Legend of Korra season 3 episode 12+13
Holy shit what a finale, lots of drama, great animation, a few shonen powerups here and there, but done well, overall loved it, all complete with a bittersweet ending thats almost melancholy.

 

[SparkPeople]

Quick question everyone:

Did anyone else think that

Spoiler

Mako killed Ming Hua? After he zaps her, she stops moving, and he goes limp (except for his arm and leg holding him) until he hears Bolin fighting above him.

He just seemed very sad compared to the other times he defeated enemies.

 

[Slamtastic]

Quick question everyone:

Did anyone else think that

Spoiler

Mako killed Ming Hua? After he zaps her, she stops moving, and he goes limp (except for his arm and leg holding him) until he hears Bolin fighting above him.

He just seemed very sad compared to the other times he defeated enemies.

That's probably why he doesn't use lightning often.

 

[foxuzamaki]

Now I can actually read the comments in this thread, well, before it got hijacked by FMA

 

[DangerMouse]

That's probably why he doesn't use lightning often.

Yeah, I also think he did kill her with that attack and sees it.

Legend of Korra season 3 episode 12+13
Holy shit what a finale, lots of drama, great animation, a few shonen powerups here and there, but done well, overall loved it, all complete with a bittersweet ending thats almost melancholy.

Been thinking about those two episodes since Friday, such an amazing watch. Agreed about the ending, I too was definitely thinking mostly about Korra in the ending even with the other stuff going on.

 

[Lord_Byron28]

Enter the Void/Venom of the Red Lotus is the best finale of the LoK, and one of the best pair of episodes in the franchise. Which is fitting, because Book Change has been the only season of Legend of Korra that is punching in AtLA's weight class. While Change has suffered no blunders, it isn't mistake free, and there are even minor miscues in its finale which have been nagging issues all season. Let's talk about those first.

Jinora is no master airbender. She's simply not shown to be one. She has an understated role in the story, and a lot of her personal growth is instead given to a new character. While the end scene has her as the focus, it feels unearned. It's another bit of disappointing circumstance for her character, because she has potential for interesting character dynamics with Tenzin and Korra. While her initiation scene actually works, it's in spite of her (I'll specify why later). Jinora's most recurring contribution to the show is being a person of relative importance for another character to save or mourn over, while her lack of character development and ability leaves much to be desired in the wake of all the meaningful plot she is integral to. The writers of the show have already admitted to not knowing how or why Jinora does what she does, so I suppose they want us to forget all of that and focus on how much she looks like Aang. The new (old) look is snazzy on her, at least.

The other problem element is the general lack of cohesiveness with Team Avatar. They are always cordoned off into doing separate things, and not much of the plot rolls through that group as a whole. Aang and his entourage faced most of the story together, and were stronger characters for it. While each member of the LoK team found something to do in the finale, only Mako and Bolin supported each other in battle. It doesn't make for great group dynamics when so much of who each of these characters are is determined in absence of one another. Which really is another way of saying they're generally boring when together at best, and actively destructive at worst.

Aside from the aforementioned issues - which have been entrenched problems with the series almost since LoK began - the finale was great.

I want to first point out that the choreography and animation of the show has been outstanding all season, but especially here. You really get a feel for these characters – most evidently in the flow of battle. For example: in the brothers' runback with Ghazan and Ming Hua, Bolin is more confident in his attacks because he's emboldened by being able to lavabend. And although he's now more of a match for Ghazan, the latter still gets the upper hand due to experience before Mako makes it a 2v1. All of this would have been apparent even if the characters never said a word. Another fine example is how Korra is characterized as a berserk force of nature when she's in the Avatar State, dying from poison. She's jumping around like Ang Lee's HULK and rocketbending like Ozai. It speaks to both Korra's natural disposition and her mental state at the time. A true force of elemental power.

Everything that happened was extremely clear and readable. It let the drama build organically because the characters moved and reacted to things believably. In this sole important avenue does LoK actually hold a slight edge to AtLA. It's a sign of the times in advancement of technique and technology. Beautifully executed animation.

The rest of the finale builds on top of the fine foundation set by the animation. Multiple arcs, both plot and character, reach relatively satisfying conclusions. And most importantly, nothing was contrived and everything makes sense (with respect to the season it is contained). This is an important factor, one lesson Mike and Bryan no doubt have learned from the reaction to Book Air's finale. When the audience spends so much time trying to make sense of what's happening on screen and why, it detracts from the entire production. We know how Zaheer can fly, we know why Korra is limited while in the Avatar State, and we know that is how Zaheer is able to overcome a fully powered Avatar, when otherwise he would have no chance. Best of all, it all occurs due to the agency displayed by the characters themselves. The plot is carried by them, the major characters; not in spite of them. Coincidences such as a random rock outcropping being the deciding factor of the drama does not occur in Change's finale.

One such arc that I don't see mentioned often is Bolin and Mako's mini rivalry with Ming Hua and Ghazan. I understand why it's not really talked about given how it's mostly incidental within the plot, but bits of small characterization can be extracted from their interactions. While Bolin gaining lavabending is an obvious result of this particular plot elements, it also allows the viewer to see some humanizing aspects of the criminals such as Ghazan and Ming Hua's possible courtship and how Ghazan is respectful of his opponents in battle. It's small stuff that goes a bit of a way in making the viewer care for the antagonists. Or at least understand a bit about who the characters are.

It's these little things that help make Change so superior to the other books in the series. Possibilities arise from small directions in writing or animation. Photographs are scrutinized, lines are debated. The writing also smartly veered from the failing romance plotting and refocused around the moralities and tenets of airbending culture. It was the first time in Legend of Korra that the major plot and motivations of the characters honestly complemented each other throughout the season. The rebuilding of a culture was Korra's goal from the beginning of the season, and it is within that culture that her foil and possible downfall is immersed. All the plot is in service or tangential to this paradigm. Because of all this can the main character finally grow.

Korra has constantly been struggling as a character, as a leader, and as the Avatar. And she's at her lowest point yet. Veelk has said much about this already so I won't retread on well defined ground, but the end scene is effective because of her. To be Korra is to be powerful, for better or worse. In that wheel chair, looking on at Jinora's finest moment, she sees both the product of her leadership, and her possible replacement(s). While it's a foregone conclusion that Korra will return to form, this situation she has been put in will be the first time Korra is truly confronted with obsolescence. It will, for a time, strip her of her most identifiable feature and force her to truly understand what the cost of battle can be and what the realities of being a leader are.

LoK Change has been a positive change on multiple fronts, ultimately bringing us to the main character's most fundamental challenge. Perhaps the most valuable thing this season has given me is the belief that the writing can be competent enough to follow through on most of the plot points introduced.

Great and interesting analysis! Although I disagree somewhat with Jinora. While its true over the course of the past 3 books she hasn't demonstrated airbending skills vastly beyond that of her siblings; she has saved the world and the Avatar twice when they were on the brink of destruction. She has consistently since Book 2 demonstrated a level of maturity, understanding and leadership beyond those of even her superiors (Tenzin, Bumi, Kya, Lin, Pema, etc.). The show has always been rather loose about how one becomes a master since it was sometimes portrayed as a life long training/journey/accomplishment but other times it was handed out rather easily. Katara went from barely able to bend a puddle to becoming a water bending master in a matter of a week. Korra spent a few days with the metal benders and became a metal bender master. I feel Jinora who has demonstrated that she is a competent airbender, incredibly knowledgeable of air nomad culture and has saved the world twice has earned her place as an airbending master and she is far from the most questionable "master" title handout. I suppose you have a point that she has very rarely been in battles to show how competent of an airbender she truly is. However the show has always been very loose with its credentials to becoming a master even when they clearly outlined and defined it in the past. I also got the sense that while it was a group of airbenders creating the tornado she was the one controlling and directing it.

 

[Shrennin]

Totally, there's no way they mentioned her and her status only for her not to show up

I think there's something to the theory that Toph may end up helping Korra recover -- if that's the way it goes, then hopefully that means an early introduction.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Now I can actually read the comments in this thread, well, before it got hijacked by FMA

Skip a few pages back to when it was airing from when it aired up until before the FMA hijack. Most things that needed to be discussed are around there.

Topics of interest for the next season:

-If a character is introduced is he/she immediately Red Lotus because reasons?
- If a character isn't part of the krew is he/she Red Lotus?

The folks in this thread seem to think so.

 

[unknownstranger]

I can already see the finale of book 4 ending with a shot of everyone from ATLA back together (Aang's spirit shows up and they retcon Sokka being dead) one last time.

 

[ObbyDent]

The Avatar soundtrack can't exist even if they wanted to. And trust me, Jeremy Zuckerman wants one badly. Unfortunately, most of the music was done and stored on old tech that doesn't exist anymore, and so most of the music that he didn't put on his old Myspace or on Soundcloud doesn't exist in any official format anymore.

On the other hand, he did recently find a song from the A:TLA finale so there's always hope the rest of them are lying around on an old hard drive of his.

A blu-ray release can't exist either due to the series made on a digital format. What we got is what we will always have. If it was made like Cowboy Bebop (on film) then this wouldn't be a problem.

 

[foxuzamaki]

I don't know about you guys, but I think Korra is pretty awesome (especially given she had poison in her). Yeah, I had my issues with the character in Book 1 and 2. And yeah, the way the writing was done, she was pretty fatiguing (especially since he failures were almost always her fault and she often took 2 steps backwards). But I actually liked her a lot in Book 3. And I think she's technically a great fighter.

So I personally thought she was great in Book 3, and hope she finishes out strong in Book 4.

I just wanted to point out how they so wanted to do a DBZ fight there, and I mean they did but not 100%, they know they have to save it for next season lol

 

[Admiral Woofington]

dat cg rock doe

 

[Blues1990]

The Avatar soundtrack can't exist even if they wanted to. And trust me, Jeremy Zuckerman wants one badly. Unfortunately, most of the music was done and stored on old tech that doesn't exist anymore, and so most of the music that he didn't put on his old Myspace or on Soundcloud doesn't exist in any official format anymore.

On the other hand, he did recently find a song from the A:TLA finale so there's always hope the rest of them are lying around on an old hard drive of his.

A blu-ray release can't exist either due to the series made on a digital format. What we got is what we will always have. If it was made like Cowboy Bebop (on film) then this wouldn't be a problem.

That's unfortunate, but you would think they would do a better job with archiving such important assets.

 

[Icyflamez96]

So if anyone cares I asked my mom (who's only seen season 3) about what characters she liked the best. (I just find it interesting because she's not the type of person that's usually into that kind of stuff. She doesn't like violence and had a negative perception on animated shows in general)

Her first answer was Kai because she liked how he was a troubled person who is finding redemption. I guess it has something to do with her being a teacher and always trying to have a lasting impact on her misbehaved kids.

She even mentioned that her favorite part of the season finale was when Kai picked up Bolin, Tenzin, Asami and Mako

Her second answer was Tenzin because he seemed wise (There was more but I forgot)

Her 3rd answer was Korra because she liked her attitude and how she was strong or something like that.

 

[Shrennin]

I hope an Airbender's ability to fly doesn't suddenly become a common thing. It really needs to go down as something only two have ever done before (and it should stay that way for a long, long time before a third figures out the ability).

 

[Icyflamez96]

Can someone briefly remind me of what made season 1's finale weak again?

 

[Vulcano's assistant]

Can someone briefly remind me of what made season 1's finale weak again?

Korra regained her powers in the last minute.

 

[DangerMouse]

I don't know about you guys, but I think Korra is pretty awesome (especially given she had poison in her). Yeah, I had my issues with the character in Book 1 and 2. And yeah, the way the writing was done, she was pretty fatiguing (especially since he failures were almost always her fault and she often took 2 steps backwards). But I actually liked her a lot in Book 3. And I think she's technically a great fighter.

So I personally thought she was great in Book 3, and hope she finishes out strong in Book 4.

So good! Completely agree, though I think the steps back at times was more in Book 2 than Book 1 as I really liked her in Book 1, but yeah she's still even better in Book 3.

She's one hell of a fighter. Probably my favorite fighter in the franchise now.

dat cg rock doe

Meh, that's not a bad catch of a little oops or missed detail but you know, thanks to everything else going on I don't remember noticing the top of that cliff after Korra pushed off of it behind the smoke and fire while actually watching thanks to how great this sequence looked (their battle felt movie quality to me) and with the smoke and some good rubble coming off as you can see in the gif when you're watching in realtime the camera probably is moving so fast you generally don't even really see that they didn't include some damage to the ground on that mountain top (even if it'd been nice), and the one on the side isn't even on screen enough and in shadow so you really only see her push off of it and you still even get to see some rubble coming off as she flies close by. In practice I thought it looked amazing with the detail in the animation, effects, and sound.

Also, as you can see in the gif I think the amount of cliffs they were able to have probably due to that CG really made the area feel wonderfully expansive during the fight.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Korra regained her powers in the last minute.

I didn't have much of a problem with that... I'm trying to remember what I didn't like about it. I think it had something to do with Amon's intentions not being genuine and the equalists pretty much disbanding just because Amon was outed. There was more though.


EDIT: Actually that part did feel kind of corny somehow lol.

 

[sleverfunk]

Can someone briefly remind me of what made season 1's finale weak again?

Airbending out of nowhere.

 

[ObbyDent]

I didn't have much of a problem with that... I'm trying to remember what I didn't like about it. I think it had something to do with Amon's intentions not being genuine and the equalists pretty much disbanding just because Amon was outed. There was more though.

Well... their leader was a hypocrite and a complete liar. I mean, The Lieutenant's entire life was based around this leader that had lied to him for so long. I would have left the cause too.

Airbending out of nowhere.

It was not out of nowhere.

 

[tkscz]

Can someone briefly remind me of what made season 1's finale weak again?

It was rushed. Season 1 was good, but because it was going to originally be the only season of Korra, it was rushed so that everything could be said and done by the end. It's why season 2 was so awkward.

 

[Saucycarpdog]

Topics of interest for the next season:

-If a character is introduced is he/she immediately Red Lotus because reasons?
- If a character isn't part of the krew is he/she Red Lotus?

The folks in this thread seem to think so.

RL is the new Hydra.

 

[Order]

Korra regained her powers in the last minute.

That, and Amon being a dumbass, which went against his character, and waterbending in front of a giant crowd of people.

 

[ObbyDent]

That, and Amon being a dumbass, which went against his character, and waterbending in front of a giant crowd of people.

He was drowning and waterbended out of instinct.

All this is is a bunch of people needlessly nitpicking something that is easily explained if you stopped bitching and just use a couple brain cells and think about it.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

Actually all jokes aside I'd laugh if the next season of Korra has the different governments making a Red Scare campaign and having agencies that go and hunt out people they think are part of the Red Lotus.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Actually all jokes aside I'd laugh if the next season of Korra has the different governments making a Red Scare campaign and having agencies that go and hunt out people they think are part of the Red Lotus.

for a dog you have some good ideas

It could be like a witch trial type scenario.

 

[Hamlet]

I hope an Airbender's ability to fly doesn't suddenly become a common thing. It really needs to go down as something only two have ever done before (and it should stay that way for a long, long time before a third figures out the ability).

I don't think it'll become too popular a ability just on the fact you really have to commit to the whole letting go of one's earthly tether. Plus most of the airbenders are going to be a tad to busy trying to promote peace and balance around the world to let go of their earthly attachments.

Though I swear I remember that there were a bunch of airbenders flying around with little clouds in The Beginnings episodes. Could be wrong though can't quite remember the scene exactly.

 

[ObbyDent]

Though I swear I remember that there were a bunch of airbenders flying around with little clouds in The Beginnings episodes. Could be wrong though can't quite remember the scene exactly.

Were they using airbending or actually flying?

 

[talisayNon]

The scene where combustion lady gets clasped with a metal helmet made me wish Korra wasn't a kids anime. Would have been cool to see her headless, fall to her knees then fall lifeless.

 

[Hamlet]

Were they using airbending or actually flying?

I just recall some airbenders using clouds to float around or something. Not really flying just using clouds as tool to get around.

 

[Admiral Woofington]

I hope an Airbender's ability to fly doesn't suddenly become a common thing. It really needs to go down as something only two have ever done before (and it should stay that way for a long, long time before a third figures out the ability).

I don't think it'll become too popular a ability just on the fact you really have to commit to the whole letting go of one's earthly tether. Plus most of the airbenders are going to be a tad to busy trying to promote peace and balance around the world to let go of their earthly attachments..

I call bullshit, I have candidate for flying #3 right here

he already doesn't care about anything, he should be floating into oblivion by the next season.

 

[Joqu]

The Avatar soundtrack can't exist even if they wanted to. And trust me, Jeremy Zuckerman wants one badly. Unfortunately, most of the music was done and stored on old tech that doesn't exist anymore, and so most of the music that he didn't put on his old Myspace or on Soundcloud doesn't exist in any official format anymore.

On the other hand, he did recently find a song from the A:TLA finale so there's always hope the rest of them are lying around on an old hard drive of his.

A blu-ray release can't exist either due to the series made on a digital format. What we got is what we will always have. If it was made like Cowboy Bebop (on film) then this wouldn't be a problem.

I had no idea about the music thing, that's interesting. Obviously I don't know the details but I imagine it wouldn't be impossible to recover that music if old tech is the problem here? I figured it was simply lost. But such an undertaking probably be too costly for a simple soundtrack release anyway.

Eh it wouldn't be the first time a company released something on blu-ray that isn't truly HD for what it's worth. Parts of Book 1 of ATLA really have image issues that have got to be related to the encoding, not the source material. Plus compression is gonna cause a slight dent too of course. I just wish they'd do something about that, whether it'd be on digital or blu (or new dvds even). I would never expect them to redo everything for a simple blu-ray release. Although it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't have the source material anymore.. :x

Spoiler

And hey, I suppose the average person doesn't notice these things anyway >>

 

[DangerMouse]

Well... their leader was a hypocrite and a complete liar. I mean, The Lieutenant's entire life was based around this leader that had lied to him for so long. I would have left the cause too.

Yup, it's the whole reason the Lieutenant left him, he even says it and you can see it when the betrayal hits him.

He was drowning and waterbended out of instinct.

All this is is a bunch of people needlessly nitpicking something that is easily explained if you stopped bitching and just use a couple brain cells and think about it.

This. It wasn't him being stupid.
It's also possible that as he was drowning and instinctively coming back up with waterbending, his mind was possibly still in the fight and perhaps still reeling from how she airbended after he thought he had succeeded.

 

[LumpOfCole]

Part of me hopes Book 4 will take place years after Book 3, with Jinora grown up and Korra been given a long, long time to recover.

 

[Htown]

Well... their leader was a hypocrite and a complete liar. I mean, The Lieutenant's entire life was based around this leader that had lied to him for so long. I would have left the cause too.

If a bunch of people actually have issues with benders as non-benders, they're not all going to go "well I guess I was wrong" because the leader of the organization turned out to be a bender secretly.

That's not how movements work.

 

[Hamlet]

I call bullshit, I have candidate for flying #3 right here

he already doesn't care about anything, he should be floating into oblivion by the next season.

No love for Otaku he also seems to be a prime candidate in learning to fly.
Now I want to see Otaku and Ryu become best buddies and get up to some airbending antics.

 

[DangerMouse]

I call bullshit, I have candidate for flying #3 right here

he already doesn't care about anything, he should be floating into oblivion by the next season.

LOL

 

[ObbyDent]

I had no idea about the music thing, that's interesting. Obviously I don't know the details but I imagine it wouldn't be impossible to recover that music if old tech is the problem here? I figured it was simply lost. But such an undertaking probably be too costly for a simple soundtrack release anyway.

Eh it wouldn't be the first time a company released something on blu-ray that isn't truly HD for what it's worth. Parts of Book 1 of ATLA really have image issues that have got to be related to the encoding, not the source material. Plus compression is gonna cause a slight dent too of course. I just wish they'd do something about that, whether it'd be on digital or blu (or new dvds even). I would never expect them to redo everything for a simple blu-ray release. Although it wouldn't surprise me if they didn't have the source material anymore.. :x

Spoiler

And hey, I suppose the average person doesn't notice these things anyway >>

Again, this is the case. I don't remember the exact source, but I remember Mike and Bryan claiming that when they left their original office in '08, they lost their original videos.

Giancarlo Volpe (director of many A:TLA episodes) said that the DVD releases even had fucked up timing with certain scenes. Like... a scene where a shot was held on something for a little bit longer than in DVD. It makes certain scenes end a bit quicker than intended and don't give the same sort of "oomph". Apparently they just don't have them anymore.

It really is a shame.

 

[Village]

I just wanted to point out how they so wanted to do a DBZ fight there, and I mean they did but not 100%, they know they have to save it for next season lol

They got their freak out anime face scene, so they gotta save the DBZ fight for next season

 

[ObbyDent]

If a bunch of people actually have issues with benders as non-benders, they're not all going to go "well I guess I was wrong" because the leader of the organization turned out to be a bender secretly.

That's not how movements work.

Yeah, they kinda do. If they blindly follow the smooth talker for their entire lives and he turns out to be a total liar, then why would they continue their plight? I mean, he claimed that his family was killed by an evil firebender. Nope. His father was the most ruthless criminal in their history. Their reactions were totally realistic.

Are you honestly telling me the Lieutenant didn't react realistically?

 

[Sketchbag]

Technically there have been 3 benders who have been able to fly: guru guy Zaheer talks about, Zaheer, and Aang. He was floating and what not while fighting Ozai after he entered the Avatar state.

 

[DangerMouse]

If a bunch of people actually have issues with benders as non-benders, they're not all going to go "well I guess I was wrong" because the leader of the organization turned out to be a bender secretly.

That's not how movements work.

The guy has serious issues with benders and has offered his life to Amon, as his right hand guy, who's been lying to him for years (and the additional details ObbyDent included). The Lieutenant isn't turning on the Equalist Movement itself only it's leader, he'd probably be right back in if it got reformed under a new leader.

 

[Icyflamez96]

Technically there have been 3 benders who have been able to fly: guru guy Zaheer talks about, Zaheer, and Aang. He was floating and what not while fighting Ozai after he entered the Avatar state.

It's not just flying, it's being weightless.

 

[ObbyDent]

Technically there have been 3 benders who have been able to fly: guru guy Zaheer talks about, Zaheer, and Aang. He was floating and what not while fighting Ozai after he entered the Avatar state.

He uses airbending to "float". He wasn't flying in the same sense. Zaheer flew around like superman, while Aang stayed in the same pose and moved foward.

 

[zulux21]

A blu-ray release can't exist either due to the series made on a digital format. What we got is what we will always have. If it was made like Cowboy Bebop (on film) then this wouldn't be a problem.

you can still do a blu ray release, they just wouldn't be able to make it more then a simple upscaling (aka likely what your blu ray player will do with a dvd anyways) without spending a lot of money... (odds are they would do a simple crop and upscale though and anger a lot of fans )

Personally I would be fine if a blu ray release had just the dvd quality of videos if the following happened.

1. The first few eps were properly encoded this time and don't look like crap.
2. Avatar Extras is included in its entirety.

and that is it... I would rebuy avatar in dvd quality again for those two things alone.

 

[talisayNon]

so wasnt korra severed from her avatar state after season 2? the poison was the only reason she could go back into the avatar state correct?