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Legend of Korra Book 3: Change |OT| SCHEDULEBENDING

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Hopefully by book 3 that sentiment will calm down. I really like Korra as much as Aang, if not a bit more. I can sorta see why people wouldn't like her based on her personality, but I'm there with the decisions she makes and the frustration that she feels, even if the lash against others is a bit unwarranted.


Yeah, and we got more Jinora instead. =\

Book 3 did set things right for a lot of people. Korra was used really effectively, and the overall season was just great. But some fans were still quick to jump on her (irrationally IMO), just because of her past actions.

On some level I can understand. Again, I personally think Book 2 was a major misstep for the writers (especially the first half). I think it did a lot of damage to the Korra character. So I get why some can't move past it. But honestly, from the second half of Book 2 and Book 3, Korra is basically a different character. Her character arc (her growth) was sloppy (well again, just my opinion)...but she's become a great character.
 
The writers weren't competent enough this time around to write a character that was angry a lot of time. It worked really well for Zuko because of his backstory and character arc, not for Korra. Now that she's calmed down and can hang out with the krew without drama ensuing, it was a a load of fun.
 
The writers weren't competent enough this time around to write a character that was angry a lot of time. It worked really well for Zuko because of his backstory and character arc, not for Korra. Now that she's calmed down and can hang out with the krew without drama ensuing, it was a a load of fun.

I think logically, they set the ground work explaining why Korra was so angry. So from a plot perspective it all makes sense. But I think the series format didn't allow the audience to breathe, so it was relentless having to deal with Korra's rage. And because the show already had issues with establishing the side characters and their relationship, it was hard having her take out that anger on them (and that was on top of the writers splitting the group apart, when they already needed more time together).

Although I do think technically speaking, it was questionable how they transitioned from Book 1 to 2 (rather, when they wrote Book 2, it felt like they regressed a lot of characters and didn't take into consideration their growth in that first season). I think that was a major sticking point for why it didn't work (and why it was so frustrating).
 
I think logically, they set the ground work explaining why Korra was so angry. So from a plot perspective it all makes sense. But I think the series format didn't allow the audience to breathe, so it was relentless having to deal with Korra's rage. And because the show already had issues with establishing the side characters and their relationship, it was hard having her take out that anger on them (and that was on top of the writers splitting the group apart, when they already needed more time together).

Although I do think technically speaking, it was questionable how they transitioned from Book 1 to 2 (rather, when they wrote Book 2, it felt like they regressed a lot of characters and didn't take into consideration their growth in that first season). I think that was a major sticking point for why it didn't work (and why it was so frustrating).

YOU GOT YOUR USERNAME BACK.
 
Remember they were originally in jail for attempting to kidnap Korra years ago. So the Red lotus plan consisted of kidnaping, poisoning and killing a child.

So fuck them.

Zaheer said their plan back then was to kidnap the Avatar and raise her as a Red Lotus member, taught in their beliefs. Obviously they can't do that now and so their plan was to remove the Avatar completely.
 
Zaheer said their plan back then was to kidnap the Avatar and raise her as a Red Lotus member, taught in their beliefs. Obviously they can't do that now and so their plan was to remove the Avatar completely.

Zaheer is a murderer and a lair, why would anyone believe that? Ending the Avatar cycle fits in and is the natural conclusion to their stated goals.
 
As a side note, it's pretty damn brutal that Korra was betrayed by her own flesh and blood. That her own family destroyed her connection to her past lives. I still wish Unalaq was done better, but just in the overall context of Korra's issues, it's really fucked up that her own family betrayed her.

Must have been so devastating.
 
Zaheer is a murderer and a lair, why would anyone believe that? Ending the Avatar cycle fits in and is the natural conclusion to their stated goals.
Why would he lie about that?
Also they could've archived their goals easier with an avatar that thinks like them. An avatar is not necessary a leader of a nation.
 
As a side note, it's pretty damn brutal that Korra was betrayed by her own flesh and blood. That her own family destroyed her connection to her past lives. I still wish Unalaq was done better, but just in the overall context of Korra's issues, it's really fucked up that her own family betrayed her.

Must have been so devastating.

to be fair her cousins were man-handled as well by the father, and had severe emotional issues, they should have guessed he wasn't #1 family man lol
 
to be fair her cousins were man-handled as well by the father, and had severe emotional issues, they should have guessed he wasn't #1 family man lol

Oh yeah no doubt. He was a mustache twirling villain, it couldn't be more obvious. But it still must suck to have family be one of the things that tried to take you out. She can't catch a break.
 
Zaheer is a murderer and a lair, why would anyone believe that? Ending the Avatar cycle fits in and is the natural conclusion to their stated goals.

It makes perfect sense. If you had someone as influential and powerful as the avatar espousing your views, then it would have a much bigger impact than a small group of fugitives and zealots.. She would be much more valuable alive and indoctrinated than dead
 
In what world do you live in?

Strong independent black women who don't need no man are great, but Korra is not that.

She was all over Mako's dick for two seasons and couldn't function without her husbando.

That's the thing. For the first two seasons she was just a strong black woman. This season she doesn't need a man anymore and has gained the title of strong independent black woman.
 
That's the thing. For the first two seasons she was just a strong black woman. This season she doesn't need a man anymore and has gained the title of strong independent black woman.

Satch actually wrote an extensive post on this, and why Korra is not a good representation of a female character. Wish I could find it.
 
I would love to see this as well.

Here it is:

Korra's existence is important because of very specific things like ethnic and female representation in cartoons. However, she's generally so horribly written that it puts a damper on a lot of her impact.

What we tend see of Korra is that she often loses one of the most important aspects of fine female representation that women tend to look for in media - a sense of agency. And when Korra expresses agency in some form, more often than not, it's destructive, insensitive, or just plain wrong. Following that, she's punished in some way due to the way she expresses that agency. Then after that, a character (typically male) "teaches" her something, she doesn't listen to what she's taught, and the cycle continues like this until the show's almost over and her prior behavior is finally Right.

As a black woman, when I ask for some kind of positive representation in media, I kinda expect there to be more to the character than for that character to look like me. I want them to be written well, too. That doesn't mean I have to necessarily like or agree with that character's personal ethics, but I feel that teachable moments should teach that character something, and I want that character to show what they've learned and apply that knowledge to new issues. And I don't want this to come suddenly in season 3 when it should have happened in season 1. I want natural growth over time.

Korra is a "Strong Female Character" that is full to bursting with "Strong" and "Female" but sorely lacking in "Character."

nahmsayin?

also mako sucks and ruins the show for me Kappa

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=123384347&postcount=5955

We were having a discussion about whether the show does female representation well, and I asked if any female fans could comment on their views on it (just because I'm totally out of my depth with this subject).

Here is Satch's post on Asami too:

I'm sure everyone here already knows that Asami is the light of my life, the fire of my loins, etc.

That being said, as much as I love her, she's not faring much better for similar reasons: the lack of agency, and then they don't flesh out her motivations.

The most glaring form of this is throughout basically the entirety of book 2, where her role and her storyline are hijacked to flesh out the male characters around her - Varrick and Mako. Asami is made the passenger in a plot about the safety and stability of the company that she inherited from her father. She's got the pieces in place to start her own personal journey, but that subplot isn't about her, really. It's about learning that Mako is a great detective, and about how he will go the distance to find out the truth, even if it's in conflict with the ideals of his job. That Mako, right?

Asami follows Mako to the triads and we don't get to see any form of resistance? She's just there to accompany him because Mako has an idea that these same types of people that killed Asami's mother - these same types of people that triggered the event that would allow Hiroshi's anger to fester for a decade and then blossom into a breed of hatred that burns so hot and so brightly that it blinds him as he attempts to crush and maim and mangle his daughter in his wife's (her mother!!!) name - have a way to help her company. We don't get to explore any kind of reluctance? She just follows? She accepts help from these people? She's as good as a lamp until she has to drive them both to safety in a scene that's reminiscent of literally every badass sidekick chick scene in every action movie ever (and then the sidekick chick goes on to be nothing short of worthless the rest of the movie until she has one more moment and then is worthless again). This is about Mako and his inhibitions about working with Triads after getting out of all of that gang shit and being directly at odds with it now that he's a cop.

Next she... breaks down or whatever, and the way they express her vulnerability is through having her kiss Mako, because Mako is representative of Resolve and Reason in this subplot, both things that Asami apparently lacks. And he rejects her, then takes her later, then kisses his ex in front of a group of people THEN IN FRONT OF HER, and she doesn't even say anything. Amazing! Amazing. And this is after Mako puts the pieces together and Asami is happily signing her life away to Varrick because she's desperate and dumb I guess, and can't realize that she's being played by this guy at all, even though Mako's practically been laying it out in front of her all this time.

I don't know if anyone remembers this, but when Mako went to jail and Bolin came to visit, Bolin told Mako that Asami couldn't bring herself to visit him in jail because it reminded her of her imprisoned father. Like... we couldn't explore that with Asami? Bolin had to speak for her on this? It was absolutely shameless. That scene alone is the tl;dr version of how they treat Asami Sato's role in her story. Amazing.

Asami is a female character that has an incredible journey she needs to conquer. She has to live up to the greatness of the Sato name, and yet she has to cut herself from it so that she may rebuild it in her image, not her father's. Like Katara, or even Zuko, her story intersects with the Avatar's, but is also independent of it. She has to learn to carve her own path and build a better Future [Industries]. But she can't, because she has to take a backseat first to Mako, and then to Varrick, who essentially usurps her role as the engineer. She plays second fiddle to him. It'll be a miracle if we get to see Asami Sato, CEO of Future Industries, whose father was an inventor and innovator and likely trained Asami most of her life to take on this role someday (but not so soon, since she's a baby in corporate years), invent anything. And we don't need to. Because Varrick does that! But she can be relegated to Appa-tier transportation without the Appa-tier affection. And I guess she can fight or something, but she's not going to get put in the vicinity of any real danger (unlike Sokka), lest she be willing to die a quick death. You know, like when the writers fridged Asami's mother.

Basically, I wouldn't point to either Korra or Asami as positive female role models because of how weakly they're written in the context of the story. Asami is slightly ahead though, if only for the fact that she respects Korra enough as a person to not make a move on Mako while they're still together.
pDI3X.gif


This kinda ties into why I don't like Mako. He weakens Korra's story and he weakens Asami's story. Too many moments of greatness that either of them could have are wasted on his character. Amon compliments the bending of ONE PERSON the entire time he was active in the show, and who does he give that compliment to? Mako. SHAMELESS.

That's why I'm always mad about him in here even when he does things that are completely innocuous.
9deUP.gif


edit: omfg this post is so long and its about a cartoon character im a mess
 
Oh yeah no doubt. He was a mustache twirling villain, it couldn't be more obvious. But it still must suck to have family be one of the things that tried to take you out. She can't catch a break.

She really can't catch a break can she?

She's constantly down because everything she does will be compared to Aang.
Her love life went down the shitter and involved cheating from multiple parties.
Her family tried to kill her.
The world makes it seem like they don't need the Avatar anymore.
She's always trying to find her place in the world.
Villains love to capture her and tell her how the Age of the Avatar is over.

korratear.gif

Man I really do hope next season they discuss all of these topics about her depression as the Avatar.
 
She really can't catch a break can she?

She's constantly down because everything she does will be compared to Aang.
Her love life went down the shitter and involved cheating from multiple parties.
Her family tried to kill her.
The world makes it seem like they don't need the Avatar anymore.
She's always trying to find her place in the world.
Villains love to capture her and tell her how the Age of the Avatar is over.

korratear.gif

Man I really do hope next season they discuss all of these topics about her depression as the Avatar.


She was also kind of set up to fail, as her father and Tenzin made a poor decision with regards to her training (even if their intentions were well). A lot of who she is and how she approaches things, stems from others making decisions for her. She's pretty much been pushed around from the very start.
 
Why would he lie about that?
Also they could've archived their goals easier with an avatar that thinks like them. An avatar is not necessary a leader of a nation.

The Avatar is by definition and by nature a leader. The Red Lotus were always going to kill the Avatar. And killing Korra while she's a little girl would be the easiest way. There was nothing noble or good about the Red Lotus.
 
She was also kind of set up to fail, as her father and Tenzin made a poor decision with regards to her training (even if her intentions were well). A lot of who she is and how she approaches things, stems from others making decisions for her. She's pretty much been pushed around from the very start.

That too. They shouldn't have isolated her in her training and then let the goose loose only for air training.
 
Zaheer said their plan back then was to kidnap the Avatar and raise her as a Red Lotus member, taught in their beliefs. Obviously they can't do that now and so their plan was to remove the Avatar completely.

If they originally wanted to kidnap the Avatar, it makes no sense for them to want to end the line. They could just kill Korra and try to kidnap the next Avatar.
 
That too. They shouldn't have isolated her in her training and then let the goose loose only for air training.

And at the very least, they should have told her about all this once she was old enough to hear it. Pretty ridiculous they kept her in the dark. No wonder she felt resentment and had mistrust of them.

The Asami one is a GOAT post.

Yeah some of the best things I've read on this forum tbh.
 
The Avatar is by definition and by nature a leader. The Red Lotus were always going to kill the Avatar. And killing Korra while she's a little girl would be the easiest way. There was nothing noble or good about the Red Lotus.
As someone explained earlier in this thread, Zaheer is a leader too, but at the same time he is equal to the others of the group, he don't order them around like servants. They do what he says because they want to. An avatar could easily be the same. Similar to the position Aang had while he traveled with his friends.
 
I'd love it if people stopped calling Korra black. The water tribes are not based on African cultures. They are based on the Inuit culture.
 
Thanks for finding those posts. Especially the second post about Asami.

But even though Korra's development went from bad to suddenly good, they can still give her some natural growth in book 4, can't they? Isn't there a chance for her to still be a good character?
 
Thanks for finding those posts. Especially the second post about Asami.

But even though Korra's development went from bad to suddenly good, they can still give her some natural growth in book 4, can't they? Isn't there a chance for her to still be a good character?

Sure. I mean, I think she was a good character in Book 3. I don't know if she can become a good character in the sense of being a good representation for female characters (ie. what those posts were about). But she can be used more effectively and become more likable. As I said, I already think she was in Book 3.
 
I have no idea. I've never seen people so misinterpreting someone's ethnicity as in this thread.

Nah, there's plenty of that stuff in other corners of the Internet. But yeah, American's are too hung up sometimes on their definitions of race. Not blaming them, since they've had some valid historical reasons to end up with those social constructs. Nonetheless, a lot of Americans sometimes simplify race relations too much, even in supposed more creative and "geek" sites like these (Not specifically accusing anyone here, just that it happens even in NeoGAF).
 
Thanks for finding those posts. Especially the second post about Asami.

But even though Korra's development went from bad to suddenly good, they can still give her some natural growth in book 4, can't they? Isn't there a chance for her to still be a good character?
I think so, especially with her current state. I still want her to be the aggressive person she always has been, but she can still learn a lot from what she has been put through.
 
I'm curious Azula, are you male or female?

Think he's male (I'm not waiting for Azula to answer! I love to guess :P ) since he mentioned a girlfriend last week in a post, but of course, could be a woman.

In fact, now that I think about it, most likely a woman hehe.

EDIT: And now I regret even guessing, it's stupid and we shouldn't care. Whatevs, I'll leave my post be as a testament to my stupidity.
 
Nah, there's plenty of that stuff in other corners of the Internet. But yeah, American's are too hung up sometimes on their definitions of race. Not blaming them, since they've had some valid historical reasons to end up with those social constructs. Nonetheless, a lot of Americans sometimes simplify race relations too much, even in supposed more creative and "geek" sites like these (Not specifically accusing anyone here, just that it happens even in NeoGAF).

I suppose you're right. I guess I never really noticed it until it started happening with Korra.

I figured a fandom that starting the "race bending" movement with the live action movie would be a little more in tune with a characters race.
 
Regardless of Azula the Gaffer's gender, I wonder what the show would have been like if Azula and Zuko's genders were reversed.

Would things be different between Zuko and Iroh, and would Azula's treatment of Zuko be construed as even worse?

Just something I just thought about.
 
Regardless of Azula the Gaffer's gender, I wonder what the show would have been like if Azula and Zuko's genders were reversed.

Would things be different between Zuko and Iroh, and would Azula's treatment of Zuko be construed as even worse?

Just something I just thought about.

Oh I have no doubt in my mind that if Zuko had been the prodigy firebender who could kick their asses until he went cray cray, there would have been many complaints about the patriarchy.
 
I suppose you're right. I guess I never really noticed it until it started happening with Korra.

I figured a fandom that starting the "race bending" movement with the live action movie would be a little more in tune with a characters race.

Yeah, sometimes they themselves oversimplify race simply by the tone in the color of the skin, shape of their eyes or color of their hair.

Oh, and just wanted to say:

It's good to be able to like Korra again here XD

Damn, Book 1's finale and Book 2 really brought out the worst in GAF back in those days.
 
Sure. I mean, I think she was a good character in Book 3. I don't know if she can become a good character in the sense of being a good representation for female characters (ie. what those posts were about). But she can be used more effectively and become more likable. As I said, I already think she was in Book 3.

I think so, especially with her current state. I still want her to be the aggressive person she always has been, but she can still learn a lot from what she has been put through.
Yeah. I'm no expert on great female characters or anything but I really like Korra's character. I'm pretty simple when it comes to things like this.
 
Regardless of Azula the Gaffer's gender, I wonder what the show would have been like if Azula and Zuko's genders were reversed.

Would things be different between Zuko and Iroh, and would Azula's treatment of Zuko be construed as even worse?

Just something I just thought about.
Certainly. Iroh was not very into giving a girl military training. I think he wouldn't given FemZuko the same treatment, since he was a bit conservative by heart. Remember him sending Zuko a weapon and Azula a puppet from the siege?
 
One of my favorite female characters in media will always be Saber, as she was portrayed in Fate Zero. Then again every character was great in that, but since she's one of the two leads and arguably the staple of the series, you get what I'm saying.
 
I suppose you're right. I guess I never really noticed it until it started happening with Korra.

I figured a fandom that starting the "race bending" movement with the live action movie would be a little more in tune with a characters race.

Black is shorthand for POC, which is a term used for minorities. Korra represents a minority. She "looks like" a person of color, which is important to a lot of people, including those of sub-saharan descent.

I understand she's based on a real world culture but when people call her black they are referring to her skin color and minority representation. I was gonna let all this slide until you started comparing this situation to the whitewashing in the movie. No.

She's Inuit and a person of color in the culture this show is aimed toward.
 
Black is shorthand for POC, which is a term used for minorities. Korra represents a minority. She "looks like" a person of color, which is important to a lot of people, including those of sub-saharan descent.

I understand she's based on a real world culture but when people call her black they are referring to her skin color and minority representation. I was gonna let all this slide until you started comparing this situation to the whitewashing in the movie. No.

Oh Jesus Christ. Lighten up. I wasn't comparing the two situations. I was unaware that black is *apparently* shorthand for all minorities and I was noting that normally the fandom is more in tune with things.
 
Yeah, sometimes they themselves oversimplify race simply by the tone in the color of the skin, shape of their eyes or color of their hair.

Oh, and just wanted to say:

It's good to be able to like Korra again here XD

Damn, Book 1's finale and Book 2 really brought out the worst in GAF back in those days.
Book 2's finale was still awesome. :(
 
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