Do you actually care what race/sex a main character is?
- Thread starter King of Custard
- Start date
Not really but I'm getting tired of playing a 30s something white man in so many games
I detest this picture so much. Absolutely no context applied at all. I mean, who complains about playing as Big Boss besides people that want to play as Solid Snake? Frank West was a lovable doofus that covered wars. Was Max Payne supposed to be black in Max Payne 2? Some of these characters are defined, loved, well designed.
Character diversity and such is a problem, using that picture as an argument screams laziness and ignorance.
Monocle
Member
i think its a bit different in asia. people in asia love people with blonde hair and white skin.
thats THEIR dream.
i think maybe these people care. but people in the US dont care about that.
on the other hand, i would like to know, how many are creating while being white and male, a for an example black female character.
so asking this kind of question would be really interesting japan/korea/china.
thats THEIR dream.
i think maybe these people care. but people in the US dont care about that.
on the other hand, i would like to know, how many are creating while being white and male, a for an example black female character.
so asking this kind of question would be really interesting japan/korea/china.
They see themselves as the majority, and therefore the majority that is obviously catered to. Ie- if there are 15% black people in America, there is no reason having only 15% black representation in games is bad. Or in a different defense, if the overwhelming number of people that play PS/Xbox games are male, it "fits" that the avatar selection is predominantly male.
To them, it's not seen as a structural imbalance, but a natural representation of the market. Of course, it's a chicken and egg problem.
They also don't see themselves represented in the avatars they play. They don't look like the Gears of War goons. They don't feel like Alan Wake. They don't act like the Infamous guy. Inclusiveness is a Venn diagram that covers a different set of characterizations based on what you've already got. They see representation from a different subset of semiotics. Divide the children by eye colour and the -ism is different in name but the same in nature. One side screams "They always look like you!" while the other thinks "This is nothing like me."
EDIT: Ha ha ah below me.
Again, I can only comment on what I've seen, but the reactions seem to run most hot when it's just framed in a negative tone. Like I said in my original post, it's the second wave of each side that seems to drag everything down. When an argument gets put forth, then a legion of idiots re-frame it, boil it down, make molotov cocktails out of it, that's all anyone can focus on.
King Mac of Furry Frog
Member
Unless you look like Nathan Drake or Marcus Phoenix then you are underrepresented. Only average looking people in a game i can think of is Silent Hill 2.
Eh. Don't know. I often find fantasy beasts to be really ugly and thus prefer playing human characters in fantasy RPGs. For me, it's not as much about playing a different person as it's about discovering a new world unlike our own.
The Storyteller
Member
Of course it damn well matters. And everyone replying "no" hasn't thought about the implications of a gaming culture saturated in white, hetero males and how that reflects a broader culture with the gaming community (and society at large) that's sexist, racist and homophobic. Changing attitudes regarding who we see in media (not just games) is important in creating a more inclusive, vibrant society.
Everyone saying "as long as the character is good, it shouldn't matter", well ugh, part of why I'd like to see less white hetero males as my playable character is so we can see games expand narratively and tackle new and interesting stories. Diversity is good for gaming, as it has been for other mediums.
Everyone saying "as long as the character is good, it shouldn't matter", well ugh, part of why I'd like to see less white hetero males as my playable character is so we can see games expand narratively and tackle new and interesting stories. Diversity is good for gaming, as it has been for other mediums.
No. I like interesting characters, end of. Variety is nice and I can see why some people may get tired of their gender or race not being represented that often, but I can't really bring myself to care that much.
Maybe that's just down to me being a white male and/or a dick, I dunno. I just want the games I play to be good.
EDIT: Not sure if I've interpreted the OP correctly, if we're talking about whether I'm bothered about playing a different race or gender to my own, then no.
Maybe that's just down to me being a white male and/or a dick, I dunno. I just want the games I play to be good.
EDIT: Not sure if I've interpreted the OP correctly, if we're talking about whether I'm bothered about playing a different race or gender to my own, then no.
Same. In Skyrim I rarely choose a "normal" race and when I do they are typically female or non-white. I think the exception was for my Hercules type Nord.
Yeah. Mix it up. I want to play more bad-ass females. Indigenous people. Blacks. Samoans. More than the same old same old. Nothing wrong with <fill in your favourite food here> but I'll be damned if I want to eat it every single day.
That said, if the game itself sucks it doesn't help matters.
That said, if the game itself sucks it doesn't help matters.
I don't but for some reason my girlfriend dislikes playing women in video games.
It's interesting, after seeing/reading things about how we need more women protagonists just to hear a woman go "meh" about it.
Edit: This being said she absolutely adores the Tomb Raider series... But she also loves Assassin's Creed though when I said "There is x version where you play as a lady" she appeared to really not want to play it.
We could probably go into detail about this, for her at least, and think of it in a social context... If she plays characters she might be attracted to she gets to control how they behave within the game world so she might get more appeal from that.
I totally do not write about this all the time and I can't believe I'm analysing my girlfriend.
It's interesting, after seeing/reading things about how we need more women protagonists just to hear a woman go "meh" about it.
Edit: This being said she absolutely adores the Tomb Raider series... But she also loves Assassin's Creed though when I said "There is x version where you play as a lady" she appeared to really not want to play it.
We could probably go into detail about this, for her at least, and think of it in a social context... If she plays characters she might be attracted to she gets to control how they behave within the game world so she might get more appeal from that.
I totally do not write about this all the time and I can't believe I'm analysing my girlfriend.
Well I like to play a character which is basically myself placed into that fantasy world. Every thing that is different about the character in comparison to me makes it a little harder to feel like that. Stuff like being the chosen, using magic, being a badass fighter are also different from me of course, but that is part of the power fantasy which is the whole point in the first place. This is probably due to some form of insecurity or something, but hey what can you do...
Is somebody asking the writers to cram diversity into the game, as opposed to creating a world with diversity in mind?
Because I don't see anybody doing that. I'm not trying to single you out, but that just seems like a weak excuse to me.
Alright, good point... I probably care more than I'm letting on...
cheststrongwell
my cake, fuck off
Personally, if I have a choice, I would rather play as a dude. I wouldn't refuse to play a good game just because the main character was a woman though. I don't care about the race.
PS Fuck elves
PS Fuck elves
SolidSnakex
Member
A lot of people genuinely only care about gameplay. I actually think you can see that when you look at year end sales charts, which aren't made up of games like The Last of Us, Heavy Rain, or The Walking Dead. They're made up of games driven almost entirely by their gameplay. Whether it be sports titles or FPS games that are largely only popular because of their multiplayer. Even look at GTA. Yeah, it has a story. But how many people could tell you anything about it? It's really about running around in a large world.
GTA's also a game in which people once complained about because CJ was the lead in SA. Then it went on to be the best selling game in the franchise by a long shot. And then GTAV finally topped that, but it also has a black lead. At the end of the day most people really didn't care because GTA is less about the characters and more about what you can do in that world.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I don't think you've been reading correctly. I'm pretty sure more of the responses say no because a HUGE component of video games is... Good gameplay mechanics.
I'm positive I don't speak for all gamers(neither should you) but all gamers want their games to be functional and fun and engaging to a fault.
I don't think people who talk about wanting characters of different gender/ethnicity/nationality/age do so mostly because they would enjoy media more if it showed those characters. (Though you could argue that diversity could make for better media.)
People point out the fact that if we are only shown a particular type of person as being someone you empathize with, or someone who can be good or even heroic, you will start to see them that way, and won't be as likely to see people who don't fit that type in the same manner.
I think a lot of us can agree that the fact that TV shows showed a lot more stories and characters of diverse sexualities has helped reduce discrimination.
People point out the fact that if we are only shown a particular type of person as being someone you empathize with, or someone who can be good or even heroic, you will start to see them that way, and won't be as likely to see people who don't fit that type in the same manner.
I think a lot of us can agree that the fact that TV shows showed a lot more stories and characters of diverse sexualities has helped reduce discrimination.
Paracelsus
Member
No, but I definitely do care whether he/she is ugly or not. For that reason I'm not gonna bother with Inquisition until modders have fixed most characters.
The Storyteller
Member
That's...fine. But it still doesn't mean you shouldn't care about seeing and helping to create a diverse medium. You can care about both, you know?
DoktorEvil
Banned
Sure, both is good. More options are always good.
But you're broad stroking Gamers as "sexist, racist, and homophobic", which I do take issue with.
Thank you for this. A lot of people say they don't care, and that's telling.
Of course it matters that almost every character in a video game is a white male. Of course it matters that there is hardly any representation of minorities as main characters in video games.
And even in a non-political sense: You had to play as fucking Raiden in Metal Gear Solid 2 when you thought you got to play as Snake. How does that not matter?
skullmuffins
Banned
This. I'm not going to skip a good game just because the protagonist is another straight white guy, but I still think games in general should aim to be more diverse. When there's a choice, I almost always play as a woman.
So even if the game was widely recognized as the GOTY, you wouldn't play it simply because of the main character's gender? Why? A few people in the thread have said they have no interest in games with a female lead and I have a hard time relating to that point of view. As a female gamer, I've never really had the luxury of only playing games where the main character's gender matches mine.
aspiegamer
Member
I do not immediately care about a protagonist's race or gender. If a game is damn good, it's good, period, so it should be enjoyed for what it is. However, I do care about good writing and character development. Make the character fit the setting so that what they are can add to the game overall. I know that doesn't apply to a lot of games but there are others where they do or at least could in the proper scenario.
That said I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't like to see a little more diversity overall. GTAV and the coming AC make my brain hurt a little and beg the "well, what if...?" question. What developers say to excuse these things do not help the situation.
I give games with open character creation or have a selectable protagonist extra kudos and yes that does include GTAO. Saints Row is mind-bogglingly progressive in this sense which is the sort of statement you'd never expect to hear. Mass Effect of course another common example. One protagonist storyline of each gender is also a thing JRPGs have done for quite some time.
That said I'd be lying if I said I wouldn't like to see a little more diversity overall. GTAV and the coming AC make my brain hurt a little and beg the "well, what if...?" question. What developers say to excuse these things do not help the situation.
I give games with open character creation or have a selectable protagonist extra kudos and yes that does include GTAO. Saints Row is mind-bogglingly progressive in this sense which is the sort of statement you'd never expect to hear. Mass Effect of course another common example. One protagonist storyline of each gender is also a thing JRPGs have done for quite some time.
The Storyteller
Member
Hardly. I think it's an issue with all creative industries but particularly within gaming culture, which has an abundant lack of diverse representation, both in who is making the games and who is in the games.
If you've played online games for more than five minutes, you'll be confronted with casual sexism, racism and homophobia, and by making games that are almost constantly about a white hetero male, games are implicitly reinforcing the idea that games are only for that subset of the community and that in turn excludes minority voices from the greater discourse, because games are not made for them. Everything within gaming culture reinforces this notion - from overt sexualisation/abuse of women, to almost non-existent LGBT characters, and a lack of racially diverse characters that aren't the bad guys.
Not all gamers are sexist, racist and homophobic, that is fallacy, but games, the gaming culture and game development don't do enough to try and help change the parts that are.
I don't see why it matters if you find the characters "lovable" or not. The point of the image is pretty clear, and I don't think there's anything lazy or ignorant about it.
TheBlueBomber
Member
As long as i like the character's personality in game, no i don't care what they look like
You seem like a ray of sunshine, do you hate women, old people, and minorities when they arent exceptional in other areas in real life too??
You seem like a ray of sunshine, do you hate women, old people, and minorities when they arent exceptional in other areas in real life too??
Well, obviously gameplay is the most important factor. No one is asking for crappy games with diverse characters. But, narrative is important too and you can't deny that we gamers have an interest in the characters we play as (maybe not in Cod or Battlefield games though). Look at posts all over gaf and you'll see gamers discussing characters by name and personality. Lets not pretend that these protagonists and the stories told don't matter.
Not really but I'm getting tired of playing a 30s something white man in so many games
Isn't Big Boss Japanese-American?
cookiebandit18
Neo Member
I don't care and I really don't understand why people feel the need to push for more diverse casts in their media. It's fine if it happens organically but I've heard comic youtubers rave about how much better Justice League was because they let Cyborg in (specifically because he was black).
Paracelsus
Member
DoktorEvil
Banned
Oh, you're talking about the immature CoD "bro" gamer?
I've had racial and homophobic slurs thrown at me by kids too young to know what they're saying, but that's not my fault. That's the parent/brother/relative who bought the game for a kid that's too violent and not age appropriate/old/mature enough to play it.
FYI, minorities do it too. It's a really poor form of trash talk. I've learned to tune it out or mute.
There are plenty of games that don't go online and have you berated by 13 yr olds screaming slurs. Once again, online gaming is different for all gamers. Broad stroke brushes aren't helping it. Poor example.
Additionally, we don't always know what goes on between development and publishing. It's usually publishing who'll stifle any creative pushes for a game to be inclusive or push diversity.
Video games have only existed for about 40+ years. The medium is new, and the people creating them are programmers and artists working long hours for low pay just to work in the field. The medium only entered 3D 8 years ago. I don't want characters shoved into games just to fit a diverse character into a story that never included one in the first place, otherwise you get characters that are stereotypes and caricatures.
KingJ2002
Member
Yes.
When it comes to race it matters to me on the setting... I found myself being way more critical of games such as Assassin's Creed IV's Freedom Cry DLC... talking about slavery is never easy, so making it a game is taking it to a different level.
When it comes to sex... it matters because it has to be relatable to me... especially with titles that actually explore sexuality. Take Mass Effect and their relationships for example... I only played with the the male commander Shepard and went after women because I could relate to that and make better choices. I wouldn't know where to begin as a female commander going after men, or a male commander Shepard going after the other men, or a female commander shepard going after other women because the thought never crossed my mind... and i'm just not interested in seeing the game from that angle.
When it comes to gender... I also care... right now... many "real" characters introduced seem like exaggerated versions of the gender they represent.
Super Machismo Men
Ultra Feminist Women
Befuddle You For The Sake Of Befuddling You Transgenders
and I hate that... I loved the Last of Us because it looked like I was playing a game where they intended the characters to be actual people who could function in society.
In contrast to say... the GTAIV expansion packs... lost and the damned & the ballad of gay tony... I bought those games and within 5 minutes i didn't care to play anymore.
Long answer but yes.. i do care.
When it comes to race it matters to me on the setting... I found myself being way more critical of games such as Assassin's Creed IV's Freedom Cry DLC... talking about slavery is never easy, so making it a game is taking it to a different level.
When it comes to sex... it matters because it has to be relatable to me... especially with titles that actually explore sexuality. Take Mass Effect and their relationships for example... I only played with the the male commander Shepard and went after women because I could relate to that and make better choices. I wouldn't know where to begin as a female commander going after men, or a male commander Shepard going after the other men, or a female commander shepard going after other women because the thought never crossed my mind... and i'm just not interested in seeing the game from that angle.
When it comes to gender... I also care... right now... many "real" characters introduced seem like exaggerated versions of the gender they represent.
Super Machismo Men
Ultra Feminist Women
Befuddle You For The Sake Of Befuddling You Transgenders
and I hate that... I loved the Last of Us because it looked like I was playing a game where they intended the characters to be actual people who could function in society.
In contrast to say... the GTAIV expansion packs... lost and the damned & the ballad of gay tony... I bought those games and within 5 minutes i didn't care to play anymore.
Long answer but yes.. i do care.
Not really sure what you're doing here, but aren't some of the developers on the left Japanese?
DXLelouch153
Banned
more Persona games need F MCs
for reasons
for reasons
I never cared which gender, but I do get tired of playing the same type of races. Human, human or human? Give me some aliens and we definitely need more robot representation.
ALIEN's vs Terminator vs Predators FPS shooter game? Oh yes please, right now, thank you.
Oh wait, the Pred's are male or female? Well, give them a choice of a female or male predator to use so no one feels left out and end up in the next Feminist Frequency installment. Just don't put pink bows in their hair, boob plate or high-cut dresses and everyone will be happy.
ALIEN's vs Terminator vs Predators FPS shooter game? Oh yes please, right now, thank you.
Oh wait, the Pred's are male or female? Well, give them a choice of a female or male predator to use so no one feels left out and end up in the next Feminist Frequency installment. Just don't put pink bows in their hair, boob plate or high-cut dresses and everyone will be happy.
Cyrus_Saren
Member
Not at all.