Cops shoot and kill man holding toy gun in Walmart

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BronsonLee said:
Oh SHIT, there's video? The family and lawyer saw it? DeWine handed it over to a special prosecutor?

Charges are coming then. That's about as open and shut as it gets. Ignore the part about the cop being allowed back to duty, AGs don't control that. If they're taking it to a grand jury and he's specially assigning people, he wants blood.
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At least the guy's girlfriend and parents will get some form of retribution. I was wondering why it took so long for video evidence to surface, and now bringing it to the AG makes more sense why.

BronsonLee said:
At bare minimum, they're in some deep fucking trouble now.
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How do you charge this as AG? Involuntary Manslaughter?
 
Don't leak the video until after the trial. I don't want the defense to have any loopholes.

Police claim Crawford ignored their commands to drop the weapon, and the former Marine who called in the report and witnessed the shooting said Crawford “looked like he was going to go violently.”

But attorney Michael Wright said surveillance video from the incident, which Ohio’s attorney general allowed him to watch with Crawford’s family, contradicted those accounts.

“John was doing nothing wrong in Walmart, nothing more, nothing less than shopping,” Wright said.

The attorney said surveillance video showed Crawford facing away from officers, talking on the phone, and leaning on the pellet gun like a cane when he was “shot on sight” in a “militaristic” response by police.
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I almost simultaneously laughed and cried reading this. Dude is chilling in Walmart, talking on the phone to his girl, playing some Mario Kart, and in someone's warped vision he's transformed into Bishop from Juice.

Magic Ovaries said:
So why were the police called if he was just shopping?
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Fear. Ignorance. Spite. Take your pick.

In his mind this was a thug determined to rob this store blind and take a few dozen law abiding shoppers down with him. "Look at him over there, so smug on his cell phone, he doesn't even realize I've called the cops and told them about his dastardly plan! Which, now that I think about it, is taking a while, but I guess 150cc is pretty hard."
 
The article doesn't really say much beyond the exact moment he was shot except for:

“John was doing nothing wrong in Walmart, nothing more, nothing less than shopping,” Wright said.
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I'd like to hear a description of how he was handling the gun the moments before to see if those two "witnesses" did in fact get this guy SWATted.
 
DoktorEvil said:
At least the guy's girlfriend and parents will get some form of retribution. I was wondering why it took so long for video evidence to surface, and now bringing it to the AG makes more sense why.

How do you charge this as AG? Involuntary Manslaughter?
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The AG probably has had it and been sitting on it for the grand jury, but let the family see it because they requested it.

I have no idea what charge to bring here. All I know is those interviews the caller and his wife did after the incident look like a really goddamn bad idea right now.

CrankyJay said:
The article doesn't really say much beyond the exact moment he was shot except for:

I'd like to hear a description of how he was handling the gun the moments before to see if those two "witnesses" did in fact get this guy SWATted.
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Likely saving all of that for the grand jury, if I had to guess. It seems the AG isn't keen on making this a trial by media
 
If you think someone is standing around in Walmart with a gun, ready to "go violently", why would you hang around in Walmart waiting for the cops to arrive so that you could watch the show? Why would you not leave Walmart and try to get everyone out of there that you could without alerting the guy who is ready to "go violently"?
 
blakep267 said:
Thread bump

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2014/08/...e-leaned-on-toy-gun-in-walmart-attorney-says/

Surveillance video shows an Ohio man talking on a cell phone, leaning on a toy gun, and facing away from officers moments before police shot and killed him in a Walmart store, according to an attorney for the man’s family.

A 37-year-old woman at the store suffered an unspecified medical emergency after the shooting and died a short time later.
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Acf1i8c.gif
 
CrankyJay said:
The article doesn't really say much beyond the exact moment he was shot except for:



I'd like to hear a description of how he was handling the gun the moments before to see if those two "witnesses" did in fact get this guy SWATted.
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It's described above. He wasn't facing the officers, and he was leaning on it like a cane. Not raised to attack, not brandishing it people, not pointing it in the air, not playing war games.

Even if he had actually robbed the place 10 minutes beforehand, it would STILL be murder. You don't get to execute people just because you fear them mentally, there has to be a real threat.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
It's described above. He wasn't facing the officers, and he was leaning on it like a cane. Not raised to attack, not brandishing it people, not pointing it in the air, not playing war games.

Even if he had actually robbed the place 10 minutes beforehand, it would STILL be murder. You don't get to execute people just because you fear them mentally, there has to be a real threat.
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I'm not arguing that. I want to know how he was behaving to determine if the 911 callers were lying to escalate the situation intentionally.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
It's described above. He wasn't facing the officers, and he was leaning on it like a cane. Not raised to attack, not brandishing it people, not pointing it in the air, not playing war games.

Even if he had actually robbed the place 10 minutes beforehand, it would STILL be murder. You don't get to execute people just because you fear them mentally, there has to be a real threat.
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The video is relevant to the cops who are being charged.

If people seriously want anything to happen to the couple, then the part before the call is more important.
 
CrankyJay said:
I'm not arguing that. I want to know how he was behaving to determine if the 911 callers were lying to escalate the situation intentionally.
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The guy is on video above saying the dude swung around to point the "gun" at the officers. He also says when he was bleeding on the ground, he tried to lunge again for the officers and/or the gun.

He's completely delusional.

Edit: I don't think any criminal charges will be filed against him. Being a bad eyewitness isn't a crime. He's an asshole and a liar, but the officers ultimately had the responsibility to assess the situation with level heads.
 
CrankyJay said:
I'm not arguing that. I want to know how he was behaving to determine if the 911 callers were lying to escalate the situation intentionally.
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Well if he was really just standing there leaning on the gun and talking on his phone, then you know the callers are already lying. The callers said he was swung around and pointed the guns at the cop, which is a lie if the video description is true..
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
The guy is on video above saying the dude swung around to point the "gun" at the officers. He also says when he was bleeding on the ground, he tried to lunge again for the officers and/or the gun.

He's completely delusional.
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darkazcura said:
Well if he was really just standing there leaning on the gun and talking on his phone, then you know the callers are already lieing. The callers said he was swung around and pointed the guns at the cop, which is a lie if the video description is true..
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Unfortunately we're just going off of someone else's account of the video and it was given at most a sentence.
 
Wow. I need to type this out because it's so cartoonishly fucked up I'm having trouble even processing it. Dude was on the phone leaning on the toy gun with his back turned and the next thing he knows he's shot. He didn't even see it coming. And all of this is on surveillance video. There should be no way this isn't an open and shut case.

I do have a question for those versed in law/the justice system. How would releasing the video to the public help the defense or provide them with loopholes?
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
Edit: I don't think any criminal charges will be filed against him. Being a bad eyewitness isn't a crime. He's an asshole and a liar, but the officers ultimately had the responsibility to assess the situation with level heads.
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Filing a false police report/SWATting is, though.

BHZ Mayor said:
I do have a question for those versed in law/the justice system. How would releasing the video to the public help the defense or provide them with loopholes?
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It gives the defense a question to ask during jury selection - 'have you seen the video'? Yes? Automatic grounds for disqualification, in their opinion. Trial by media.
 
soundahfekz said:
until we get cameras on all cops this shit will continue to happen...
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Even if they do get cameras, they'll modify them so the audio is muffled or so the image reception is bad. They had officers damaging their receiver antennas to fuck with the recording computers in their squad cars. These cops aren't idiots, they're work-a-day human beings just like the rest of us. And some of them try to get over.
 
darkazcura said:
Well if he was really just standing there leaning on the gun and talking on his phone, then you know the callers are already lieing. The callers said he was swung around and pointed the guns at the cop, which is a lie if the video description is true..
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CrankyJay said:
Unfortunately we're just going off of someone else's account of the video and it was given at most a sentence.
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In what world would it make sense for someone to turn an air rifle onto armed police officers? And then reach for the gun, after being shot, as if it could then be used to stop his attackers? Keeping in mind that this criminally insane person was having a perfectly normal conversation with his family and gf at the time. Of course he's lying.
 
BronsonLee said:
Oh SHIT, there's video? The family and lawyer saw it? DeWine handed it over to a special prosecutor?

Charges are coming then. That's about as open and shut as it gets. Ignore the part about the cop being allowed back to duty, AGs don't control that. If they're taking it to a grand jury and he's specially assigning people, he wants blood.
Click to expand...

of course theres freaking video, it happened IN walmart.

this is sickening, I hope the people responsible are held responsible but i have little hope.
 
BronsonLee said:
Filing a false police report/SWATting is, though.
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It's not a false report to call in the presence of what looks like a gun.

After my coworker spotted someone in the neighborhood just standing around with a rifle, the sergeant whose office is next to ours told us to always call the cops when we see someone with a gun. They don't consider it a waste of time to make sure everything is on the up and up.
 
Popnbake said:
So who's going to jail over this fuck up?
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Far as I know, the victim was black, and there's a loophole in American police/legal proceedings that allows this sort of thing, provided that only black people die. I think it's part of the second amendment? I could be mistaken, but I mean, it's in there somewhere.

I don't expect anyone to go to jail. I'll be surprised if anyone even gets charged.
 
BronsonLee said:
Filing a false police report/SWATting is, though.



It gives the defense a question to ask during jury selection - 'have you seen the video'? Yes? Automatic grounds for disqualification, in their opinion. Trial by media.
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Got it. So basically anyone who's seen it would be considered biased.
 
captive said:
of course theres freaking video, it happened IN walmart.

this is sickening, I hope the people responsible are held responsible but i have little hope.
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No no no, you misunderstand. We've been asking for it for a while. We knew they had it, we just didn't know who got it. If the AG has it...

Zoe said:
It's not a false report to call in the presence of what looks like a gun.
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Context matters here, though. That media tour they did after the incident isn't doing them any favors right now.

All of this debating is moot anyway, it's all up to the AG. We won't know what happens until after the grand jury.

BHZ Mayor said:
Got it. So basically anyone who's seen it would be considered biased.
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Correct. They wouldn't be able to disqualify -everyone-, but it'd be a lot of people. And the prosecution would argue over it. It muddles the waters.

davepoobond said:
Infuriating. Glad they weren't smart enough to try to destroy the video.
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Why would Walmart do that?
 
BHZ Mayor said:
Wow. I need to type this out because it's so cartoonishly fucked up I'm having trouble even processing it. Dude was on the phone leaning on the toy gun with his back turned and the next thing he knows he's shot. He didn't even see it coming. And all of this is on surveillance video. There should be no way this isn't an open and shut case.

I do have a question for those versed in law/the justice system. How would releasing the video to the public help the defense or provide them with loopholes?
Click to expand...

Releasing it to the public would "taint the jury pool" and the defense could then file a motion to suppress the video from evidence, basically giving the cops a free pass, since the video could not be used for a trial.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
The guy is on video above saying the dude swung around to point the "gun" at the officers. He also says when he was bleeding on the ground, he tried to lunge again for the officers and/or the gun.

He's completely delusional.

Edit: I don't think any criminal charges will be filed against him. Being a bad eyewitness isn't a crime. He's an asshole and a liar, but the officers ultimately had the responsibility to assess the situation with level heads.
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Pretty much this.

I don't expect anything to happen to the couple.

Looking at the video of the witness leads the viewer to believe that the kid was intimidating people all over the place. Logic dictates that if this was the case, though, wouldn't any other customer call the police or warned a WALMART employee of suspicious activity? Wouldn't there be several fearful calls?

Not even a single Walmart employee from either the toy section or the gaming section has come forward to validate that shopper's claims.

It didn't happen the way that he said it did. He even claims that after being shot, the guy went BACK FOR THE GUN.

Wasn't expecting the witness to be as young as he was. Personal speculation: he had issues with people of color.
 
*crosses fingers*
"please don't be...... ...oh"



Police across the country have enacted Kill-a-black guy challenge or Police Purge, No consequences are ever brought to these officers.
 
Cops are fucked, if they havent donde character assassination at the time is because they couldnt find nothing and the guy is "one of the good ones".
 
BlackBanditSho said:
Pretty much this.

I don't expect anything to happen to the couple.

Looking at the video of the witness leads the viewer to believe that the kid was intimidating people all over the place. Logic dictates that if this was the case, though, wouldn't any other customer call the police or warned a WALMART employee of suspicious activity? Wouldn't there be several fearful calls?

Not even a single Walmart employee from either the toy section or the gaming section has come forward to validate that shopper's claims.

It didn't happen the way that he said it did. He even claims that after being shot, the guy went BACK FOR THE GUN.

Wasn't expecting the witness to be as young as he was. Personal speculation: he had issues with people of color.
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Whether something happens to the couple or not will be based on the video prior to the killing.

They're responsible for 2 deaths indirectly. There better be some fucking consequences for crying wolf!

I also have a problem seeing that "witness" in combat ready situation as a Marine, where he'd HAVE to discern for life or death. We can't assume he has issues with race but we can determine that he's partially responsible for the shitty 911 judgment call he made in Walmart based on hearsay his wife, in a scooter with ZERO combat experience and a bad line of sight, would be able to determine.

I need to take a break. This story and the pictures posted of open carry rifle bullshit really pisses me off.
 
Sho_Nuff82 said:
The guy is on video above saying the dude swung around to point the "gun" at the officers. He also says when he was bleeding on the ground, he tried to lunge again for the officers and/or the gun.

He's completely delusional.

Edit: I don't think any criminal charges will be filed against him. Being a bad eyewitness isn't a crime. He's an asshole and a liar, but the officers ultimately had the responsibility to assess the situation with level heads.
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No criminal charges, but there will likely be a civil case.
 
Zoe said:
It's not a false report to call in the presence of what looks like a gun.

After my coworker spotted someone in the neighborhood just standing around with a rifle, the sergeant whose office is next to ours told us to always call the cops when we see someone with a gun. They don't consider it a waste of time to make sure everything is on the up and up.
Click to expand...

They didn't just report the presence of what looks like a gun. They reported a man aiming the gun at people and children, looking menacing like he was about to cause mayhem.
 
BlackBanditSho said:
This.

http://www.whio.com/videos/news/john-crawfords-family-wants-surveillance-video/vCppzz/

Different vid. Interview with lawyers and family.

Apparently, the kid didn't take the gun out of the package. It was already out of the packaging. Also, the witness claims that the boy was trying to load the gun.
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Well if the guns aren't packaged that would lend credence to the idea that Walmart could've been initially manage the situation because they might be held liable in a civil case later on. Even though the Attorney General clarifies later on they had it suppressed to prevent jury pool problems it still doesn't nullify the possibility because it's not like the AG is notified immediately of these situations.

Zoe said:
Which is why the video before the call is needed if anything is to come up against the couple.
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The should get burned for this just so they can be made clear their fellow man doesn't put up with their idiocy.
 
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