This is legitimately one of the most sexist things I've seen put in so few words. I hope others understand why. The insistence in making the conversation about men's sexuality and value to society relative to presumed gender roles (instead of the nature of the threats or Sarkeesian's influence) is baffling.
Tropes vs Women author Sarkeesian vacates home following online threats
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This is legitimately one of the most sexist things I've seen put in so few words. I hope others understand why. The insistence in making the conversation about men's sexuality and value to society relative to presumed gender roles (instead of the nature of the threats or Sarkeesian's influence) is baffling.
plagiarize
Banned
Exactly, and while I don't agree with every point Anita makes (although she's spot on with most as far as I am concerned) I admire the fuck out of her for putting herself out there to call out the issues she sees, even as the reactions to her escalate.
I don't know that I wouldn't have let myself be silenced when facing down what she has faced.
Of course she tweeted about this. It's a perfect example of some of the very problems she's talking about. But people here think it's totally cool to throw out the conspiracy theories or to claim that she's just milking it.
The cognitive dissonance is deafening... and as ever... change the subject change the subject change the subject.
Hopefully, it is mostly angsty teenage boys and misogyny.
But i doubt it
Pretty sure it's mostly men in their 20s and 30s just because that's the core gamer demographic but really misogyny runs the whole gamut of ages.
And it's not just a gamer thing. I know people like to point the finger at the internet, sexually frustrated teenage boys or gamers because it's more comfortable to compartmentalise this but it's much bigger than this.
The problems (among others) are men as a whole, the way we raise boys and the inferior status of women in society.
This thread should only have 1 reply and that is:
This is unacceptable and should never have happened.
We wish Anita strength in these troubled times and good luck in her future projects.
DoktorEvil
Banned
I don't agree with your ideas of manhood. They're antiquated.
Besides, this thread isn't about your terrible ideas on manhood, it's about Anita and her work and the fact her life is threatened by it.
D
Deleted member 126221
Unconfirmed Member
I've seen you post a lot of "but men have problems too" comment across a couple of threads. I hope you'll understand soon it's not appropriate at all, and does not change the fact in any way that misogyny is a serious problem.
Keep thinking sexism doesn't exist "because you have problems too as a man" if you want, but with that kind of thinking you won't last long here. Have a nice day.
Hmm yea, that is pretty disgusting. Doxxing is never nice. Sadly it happens alot lately to people who have opinion shows on youtube.
Oooh it won't last me very long here? If you say so. And you have a good day too.
Damerman
Member
agreed (with my own twist)
I agree and anyone who want's to discuss Sarkeesians videos and have reasonable arguments are being called terrorist, compared to Isis that is not acceptable in anyway.
And I really wish the people stopped posting hateful comments directed at either Anita Sarkeesian, or at people who just disagree and want to have a rational argument about it.
The fact that one side feels that everyone who criticize Anita are all evil bastards like the prick who posted those threatening tweets against her, and I don't think that's the case.
There are people who are reasonable and want to be able to disagree in a respectful manner, that feel that they are being censored and stonewalled either by the gaming press or by Anita herself.
And that is were the problem lies if an argument against her videos/opinion is reasonable and not filled with hate filled drivel then that should be allowed and not censored and instead be talked about.
Anita seems to refuse any debate at all about this she is right end of story, that seems to be the attitude and that has caused a lot of anger.
DrROBschiz
Member
I think the single biggest evidence that this ISN'T a publicity stunt is precedent
This happens all too often. Its super easy to do and takes little effort
She doesn't NEED to orchestrate anything and never had to. Heck you could pick some random girl on the street, have here make a new twitter account and instruct her to post some opinion and if it hits the right notes could EASILY illicit the same response.
Thats the ISSUE here. The fact that people feel the impulse to act out in this criminal manner over what amounts to a difference of opinions on what they might consider a "sensitive" topic.
Great post, so I'm quoting this. I think cognitive dissonance is pretty clearly right there at the root of anyone being faced with problematic (misogynist, objectifying, et al.) themes present in the work they enjoy. They're then faced with a choice: can they compartmentalize these opposing feelings? Should they? In my own case, I prefer to dispense with the cognitive dissonance entirely and, within (my own personal idea of) reason, avoid games and other media that perpetuate these tropes.
I remember when Anita's videos first started and she started listing off some of the gsmes she would be talking about. Games like Zelda, Halo, Shadow of the Colossus, Bayonetta: some of my favorite games. I wasn't livid or militant, but I was certainly skeptical of her work at that stage. It was when I saw her first video did it click to me that she's not tearing down my favorite games and a cherished hobby, just highlighting the torrid depictions of women in them. And while an individual game might not be sexist, the trend of similar depictions and usages of women in games - or tropes - certainly is.
It was when I could make that distinction that I came to appreciate her videos, and the feminist movement at large. This is a group of people who have been marginalized in media since its conception, and I can empathize with that.
It was when I could make that distinction that I came to appreciate her videos, and the feminist movement at large. This is a group of people who have been marginalized in media since its conception, and I can empathize with that.
The conversation wasn't started by me.
If not having any respect for boys that make rape and death threads to a woman because she points out sexist tropes in video games makes me antiquated, I guess I'm antiquated.
*Shrug* I'll throw my two cents in here, if I get hate for it then so be it.
I feel like I can see things from both sides pretty well. The internet can be a pretty horrible place full of people who will say terrible things, the Zelda Williams thing is pretty solid proof of that. So I can totally believe what happened to Anita is legit. I'm normally pretty cynical and skeptical when it comes to internet related things but regardless if it was manufactured or not that kind of internet behavior needs to stop. I'm inclined to believe this was a legit thing because, even though I personally think Anita is a bit devious herself, I don't think she would stoop to that kind of level for attention.
I can also totally understand why some people might look at this skeptically and wonder if it was at least somewhat manufactured, because there's some logic that can go into that assumption. Her Youtube viewer numbers seem to be dropping rapidly and the timing of this incident does seem a bit convenient, especially since the Quinn fiasco has turned the gaming realm of the internet into a hotbed lately.
I'm still a tiny bit skeptical myself, but I hope this shit gets resolved either way and if it was a legit thing (which, honestly, it probably was) I hope that person who did it gets his or her just punishment.
With that I think I'm going to bow out of this thread, though. If you disagree with me that's entirely your right and I'm not going to fault you for it or get upset.
I feel like I can see things from both sides pretty well. The internet can be a pretty horrible place full of people who will say terrible things, the Zelda Williams thing is pretty solid proof of that. So I can totally believe what happened to Anita is legit. I'm normally pretty cynical and skeptical when it comes to internet related things but regardless if it was manufactured or not that kind of internet behavior needs to stop. I'm inclined to believe this was a legit thing because, even though I personally think Anita is a bit devious herself, I don't think she would stoop to that kind of level for attention.
I can also totally understand why some people might look at this skeptically and wonder if it was at least somewhat manufactured, because there's some logic that can go into that assumption. Her Youtube viewer numbers seem to be dropping rapidly and the timing of this incident does seem a bit convenient, especially since the Quinn fiasco has turned the gaming realm of the internet into a hotbed lately.
I'm still a tiny bit skeptical myself, but I hope this shit gets resolved either way and if it was a legit thing (which, honestly, it probably was) I hope that person who did it gets his or her just punishment.
*Shrug* I do think it's kind of silly that people will talk about how horrible people on the internet can be, but then they immediately turn into vile internet people the moment anyone suggests that said incident could be a different form of people being horrible on the internet
With that I think I'm going to bow out of this thread, though. If you disagree with me that's entirely your right and I'm not going to fault you for it or get upset.
Because when 9/10 comments are calling her a cunt or threatening to rape her it's not a debate worth having. Those who whine about her turning off comments on her website and Youtube videos are so disingenuous.
plagiarize
Banned
Anita is stating her opinion in her videos. There is no reason why her videos should contain counterpoints any more than say, Jim Sterling's videos where he literally signs off with 'Thank God for me' and regularly says things like 'I am right and you are wrong'.
You disagree? Respond to her points. You'll do just fine. If you're afraid you might get called names in doing so...
Well... look at what Anita faces for stating *her* opinions.
But don't try to make the discussion about men... because then, yeah. People are rightly going to cry foul over that.
You agreeing or not agreeing with her, has nothing to do with the fact it shouldn't happen.
That Kevin Denson (or Dobson or whatever) guy wrote really scary and repulsive stuff with her address on it. I would be scared too. If she got more messages on the same level of violent antagonism (to say the least) changing her home is the more logical thing to do. The more people telling her that they know were she lives, the more chances are one of them appears around.
I really really don't think an entire gender is to blame for this.
I really really don't think an entire gender is to blame for this.
I almost wish she would leave them open for just an hour after uploading a new video, just so people would stop pretending she's silencing some potentially brilliant discussion.
Having your privilege called out is tough for a lot of people.
So I don't necessarily want to get into a discussion over whether it's accurate to call a bunch of dudes referring to other dudes as manchildren "sexist," and I definitely agree with part of the wider point regarding the means through which society at large tries to dictate what being a man is as a means to enforce often antiquated societal roles--but let us take a brief step back here, and look at exactly what you're doing in this line. You are currently in a thread about a woman who faced such horrific threats that they warranted an extreme content / trigger warning, and caused her to flee into hiding, after over a week of intense conflict over misogyny in the gaming community. Your response is to harp on a largely tangential and debatable point about discrimination against men. When called on it you make the above point, a sarcastic quip about the topic being delicate. Of course it's delicate. Any empathic human being would recognize it's delicate. Why can't you?
Please don't start that.
I'm sorry, are you serious? A woman just received backed death and rape threats for posting YouTube videos about feminism and this is the thing that's unbelievably sexist?
Her videos are debate. They are arguments based on evidence.
And yes, she does think she is right. Generally when people argue something, they believe they are right. If you were arguing something you thought was bullshit, you'd be arguing in bad faith.
pants
Member
We already know the audience can be a cesspool at the best of times, we all post on gaming forums after all, but isn't Anita's videos more aimed at the establishment? Producers, Devs, Marketers, Media etc. After watching the last video I went and watched 2 of the others, and it certainly came off that way to me. Individual players dont have much agency in what kind of content is created after all, so one can only assume it is meant for the makers.
That she turned of her youtube comments that I can understand I mean its youtube and the comment section on youtube can be pretty insane, and given the hate she has received I have no problem with that.
But she is claiming fact to every single one of her arguments and implies in her latest video that everybody who plays these games will be affected by the representation of women and end up being wife-beaters or that everyone who plays these games will hate women and treat them like shit.
It's basically the same argument as everyone who plays fps games is a gun crazy lunatic waiting to go on a killing spree.
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Its not even being taken away. Its existence is just being brought up
Neuromancer
Member
Who cares what stupid people think about anything?
Anyway there are hundreds of places on the internet to discuss her video besides the comments section of Youtube.
Nope they would still whine about "censorship". She has posted screenshots on her site from when she did allow comments but still these MRAs pretend there's valuable debate to be had in her Youtube comments. These people are liars and misogynists plain and simple.
First of all, I wrote that she was being terrorized because that's exactly what that guy on Twitter did. Nothing to do with rebuttal arguments. The idea floating around here that people who side with Anita "feel that everyone who criticize [her] are all evil bastards" is not true in the slightest.
Nobody is censoring or stonewalling - there is intelligent conversation happening in the thread on her latest video IN THIS VERY FORUM from people who both agree and disagree with her.
I find it so laughable that anyone could think that in spaces reserved for gaming discussion on the internet there could be mass censorship of people who disagree with her when it's pretty obvious that enormous swaths of those spaces are occupied by those very people.
Because they prolly agree with the said fucker, sexism doesn't exist in any medium, certainly not in video game industry... :\
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Thats an...interesting interpretation. I would say that she's saying that media reinforces cultural norms, and if we change media we can mitigate those reinforcing effects
I liken the response to how some NFL fans did when 30 for 30 did their piece on concussions and the NFL. No one likes having a glaring flaw in something they enjoy pointed out to them. I know some of my friends who love football and the NFL go crazy that these scientists and former players would have the nerve to point out how their pastime could seriously injure its participants and how its effects were hidden by the league they worship.
Ultimately, it comes down to people being unable to divorce their own identity of their personal self from the things they enjoy. Again, we are all free to enjoy the games we do, just do not equate the criticisms as being directed you as well.
It's possible to like Football and still acknowledge that the game can and has inflicted serious brain damage on those that have played it. Arguably, the NFL has become better because of the criticism.
Ultimately, it comes down to people being unable to divorce their own identity of their personal self from the things they enjoy. Again, we are all free to enjoy the games we do, just do not equate the criticisms as being directed you as well.
It's possible to like Football and still acknowledge that the game can and has inflicted serious brain damage on those that have played it. Arguably, the NFL has become better because of the criticism.
I watched the latest video and in no way did I feel like she was saying any of this.
plagiarize
Banned
And you can freely express your opinion on her videos. Here, or on your own youtube channel, or... well... thousands of places.
And yes, she is telling you in her videos what she believes to be true.
I don't know what else she is supposed to do.
She doesn't claim that and she doesn't imply that.
pants
Member
I think the point is not so much that people want to make their point, I think they want to be able to directly be angry at Anita and have her read it instead of on some forum she never will.
It's all about that anger vector.
MrCunningham
Member
Women can't have opinions on the internet without being targets. Yeah, that's just sad.
It doesn't matter if agree with her videos or not, she still brings up some good talking points and much needed debate on these topics in the game industry.
It doesn't matter if agree with her videos or not, she still brings up some good talking points and much needed debate on these topics in the game industry.
Huge Succeeded
Banned
i swear controversial content vendors on the internet are practically THE place for nobodies to put their autism on full blast like they can't do around the few friends they maybe actually have. this kind of shit just turns my stomach. these kinds of people making threats and driving people out of their homes over indirect disagreements are the worst kinds of socially retarded shitstains. Not to mention the type of zero-empathy, zero-thought dudes who wish to discuss everything besides what's actually pertinent. "why can't I post comments on your youtube video? what you think only you're allowed to have an opinion?" no because there's a 99% chance your 'opinion' is worthless or absurdly aggressive.
i don't think that's what she's been saying at all
plagiarize
Banned
Isn't it great pretending to be offended rather than responding to any of the points that have been clearly outlined to you?
You must think so.
ebullientprism
Member
What is wrong with people. Idiots need to get arrested over this and made an example with some harsh sentencing.
And even if she did, it doesn't warrant the kind of threats she's been receiving. You can disagree with someone's opinion without threatening rape/murder/patricide/etc.
You know Shinta, in the whole Anita leaving her home ordeal, i think it has become clear that you are the real victim here.
It would end the disingenuous posts we get in every Anita Sarkeesian thread. I love the discussions that her videos produce, but there are some annoying trends in every thread about her.
It would definitely keep happening on other sites, but I think people on GAF would probably give up on it.
DoktorEvil
Banned
The backlash can either come from fanbases who hate the idea of change, or people in the business/have substantial influence in the business.
You can literally go on reddit or /v/ right now and find probably hundreds of thousands of people who agree with your opinions about how Anita thinks everyone who plays games she criticizes grows up to be a "wife beater" or whatever but NO dissenting views are being censored on the web!
Well I did agree with several of her points but I also disagreed on a few what does that make me ?
She is right when it comes to that to many women characters in games are sexualized. and that is a discussion worth having, I really would like to see more strong female characters in games.
The game I am mostly looking forward to this year is Dreamfall chapters were the protagonist is a strong female character.
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