Tropes vs Women author Sarkeesian vacates home following online threats

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Her whole subject/object dichotomy is a farce too. If you can take her entire argument and replace females with males and it still holds up then the entire argument is invalid. You act on men too. Her approach is to start with a bias and then seek to confirm it, shameless.

But the point is that we don't replace females with males. You don't see men being threatened with rape as a sign of how evil the villain is, or men being kidnapped for the protagonist to go rescue (unless he's the president)
 
When was the last time you were decent with replying to a counter argument? What exactly is the problem? I would like for you to at least reply with context in mind, rather than give me a vague and stupid line about character assessment. What are you? The judicial enquiry here?

Your post provoked the appropriate response.

You said the correct response to a death threat is to post a video decrying it. Death threats are criminal and should be reported to the police. That's the correct response. If you get them for decrying sexism, you damn well should let people know the horrendous sexism you have suffered for daring to draw attention to the sexism you have seen.

Edit: I see the mods gave it the appropriate response too.
 
Just one example from the latest episode, I posted this before. Bioshock 2's developers (Jordan Thomas, JP LeBreton, Ryan Mattson, David Pittman, Steve Gaynor) who reflected on the brothels that Anita found objectionable among other things:
https://twitter.com/nullspeak/status/504045057507217408
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https://twitter.com/vectorpoem/status/430896253652582400
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https://twitter.com/fullbright/status/504656148385890304
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wow, this is great stuff. thanks for sharing!
 
See the keyboard warriors who just came down to judging my character; this is the entirety of the internet.

I spend tons of time on the Internet on my keyboards. There's no shame in being a keyboard warrior.

warrior |ˈwôrēər| noun
(esp. in former times) a brave or experienced soldier or fighter.

^ thats me
 
Sniper Wolf's early concept art has her straight up topless, so...

In any case, Kojima has shown progressiveness in his games for a while now. Whether it's having Strong female characters, Characters who are LGBT, etc.

Kojima Productions is just KCEJ rebranded, its not a separate entity.

I had no idea that was left on the cutting room floor. I'm glad it was.
Ah ok. It also seemed like KP was different from KCEJ for a tax reason or another reason.

I don't want to go further off topic here and keep the thread derailed, but as much as Kojima has done with his games with progressive causes, it's just my observation that he's pushing envelopes with his recent games and I'd like to know if Anita had any effect on his work.
 
I'd like to make it clear that I in no way sympathize with any of the deniers or praisers of this event. I just think that overgeneralizing a situation and trying to paint everyone on one side as equally bad or whatever doesn't help the cause. Because in this specific case, I honestly believe that most of the bigots are more willfully ignorant assholes trying to justify their hobbies or just ignore the issue rather than improve them, rather than evil monsters who want to rape people to death. The issues in society are very real and very serious. But you can't fix an issue if you paint everyone on the opposing side as evil
 
No, I think the point was why bring up the points like this, when you would probably not do this if you were talking to someone, in real life. The tone of that post wasnt needed, it is easy to bring up disagreements without being insulting. And before you say the "other side" does it too, well you are right, but I'm not sure how that improves the situation.

I'm not really sure how echo chambers are meant to solve anything either. Yes, the situation is terrible, but there isn't any room for discussion if a thread is tied down to the fact that a terrible thing happened and the people who did the bad things should feel bad.

Emotions get raised, the thread gets filled with vitriol, and then people feel ostracized for voicing their opinions.
 
I don´t remember the last video I´ve watched from her, but "women as background decoration" part 1 was pretty depressing. I actually had to stop part 2 halfway through because all the abuse and rape started to get to me too much. I´ll have to continue later.

Now I realize how little I know about the mainstream AAA titles and how they are promoted.

How depressing that the same violence depicted in these games is now threatened to her in real life.
 
And what do you call it when you ignore the substance of my post to reply to one line?

I decided you weren't posting in good faith after you complained about her "victim complex" in a thread discussing serious violent and sexual threats she and her family received. So I took a potshot. My sincere apologies.

No one deserves threats for making videos, but she is constantly going out of her way to misrepresent games to appear more sexist than they actually are and all of you are just eating up her narrative. I would be really glad if I never had to hear about her or her victim complex ever again.
 
Edit: I see that poster was banned.

Someone emails you that they are going to rape and kill you and your family, providing both addresses for proof.

What do you do? Do you A. Call the police, move to another location, warn your family, and freak out? Or do you B. Laugh off the threat as a joke because people are always joking on the Internet, then spend you money and time making a counter video about how death threats are bad?
 
I don't know about US but this is clearly not representative of what I see in French tech companies.

I personally don't like what she's doing (I think she doesn't treat the subject the right way.. also I have higher priorities : minorities representation) but I don't understand people who behave on the Internet like it was another world.
 
No one deserves threats for making videos, but she is constantly going out of her way to misrepresent games to appear more sexist than they actually are and all of you are just eating up her narrative. I would be really glad if I never had to hear about her or her victim complex ever again.

What is the point of this post?
 
why did she feel the need to include "women" in the harassing part? is it somewhat exclusive to them (I mean, the fact that women harassing has to stop. what about "online harassing" in general)? Int he zoe quinn fiasco more than just females got harassed.
 
Protip at life: when someone says something gives them PTSD you probably don't want to ask them to explain the event that the PTSD triggered.

From what I gathered of her post, I'm assuming she felt incredible sorrow about how people reacted or something akin to that. I was only wondering why this - about Anita - in particular. I am assuming it's more in line to this type of feeling, so I was curious why this was the tipping point.

If she had a similar sort of experience and this was a reminder of that, I did not know and for that, I do apologize for prying.
 
I had no idea that was left on the cutting room floor. I'm glad it was.
Ah ok. It also seemed like KP was different from KCEJ for a tax reason or another reason.

I don't want to go further off topic here and keep the thread derailed, but as much as Kojima has done with his games with progressive causes, it's just my observation that he's pushing envelopes with his recent games and I'd like to know if Anita had any effect on his work.

I'm sure he is aware of the Tropes Vs series at this point because he is pretty tuned into western games culture, and he did also respond to backlash over Quiet. (which was basically "Wait for the final game and you'll see". A lot of people seem to think her skin might have an octo-camo ability, but if it doesn't and there is no reason then I will be the first to call it out.)

But yeah, not the place. If you want to discuss this more, feel free to PM me.
 
why did she feel the need to include "women" in the harassing part? is it somewhat exclusive to them (I mean, the fact that women harassing has to stop. what about "online harassing" in general)? Int he zoe quinn fiasco more than just females got harassed.

what? are you seriously asking this? her whole argument is about women and how they are treated by the gaming community.

No one deserves threats for making videos, but she is constantly going out of her way to misrepresent games to appear more sexist than they actually are and all of you are just eating up her narrative. I would be really glad if I never had to hear about her or her victim complex ever again.

you seem to be completely missing the point, there is no narrative and these threats prove her point

and your last sentence is just asinine
 
But you ignore the substance of her videos to reply to one game's analysis.
I was just bringing up a single example.
I decided you weren't posting in good faith after you complained about her "victim complex" in a thread discussing serious violent and sexual threats she and her family received. So I took a potshot. My sincere apologies.
Ok, so you won't address my point?
 
Ugh.

Who are these people? Like, seriously, who are they?

Is the assumption that they're just a bunch of 12-15 year old basement dwellers correct? I'd sure like to hope so. The other option, that these are grown-ass men, really terrifies me.

Are they American? Or are they tweeting death threats from Bulgaria?

How many people are crazy like this? Is it a group of 20-odd guys from all over the world who find each other online and raise hell, an extremely vocal minority that ruins it for everyone? Or are there really thousands of people that think like this?

Shit is depressing.

UGH

EDIT: I'm going to PAX this weekend. The thought of sharing a building with some of these fucking trolls disgusts and terrifies me. Will they be there?
 
why did she feel the need to include "women" in the harassing part? is it somewhat exclusive to them (I mean, the fact that women harassing has to stop. what about "online harassing" in general)? Int he zoe quinn fiasco more than just females got harassed.

Its not exclusive, but it is disproportionate. Women face more harassment and more personal harassment
 
Her whole subject/object dichotomy is a farce too. If you can take her entire argument and replace females with males and it still holds up then the entire argument is invalid. You act on men too. Her approach is to start with a bias and then seek to confirm it, shameless.

Assume you are 100% right, do you think the games she showed are an indication of the medium growing, in terms of story telling? Assume she is completely wrong about the reasons people use the examples that she points out, and assume she is wrong about the consequences of what is happening. Given all of that, she still is point out pretty terrible narrative in games, that for some reason get more of a pass(in narrative terms). Gamer's expectation of narrative is relatively low, at worst she is making developers use less plot porn and think about what they are actually writing.

I mean, the reason she is so popular is because 1, the hate she gets and 2, there was clearly a market for dissection of narrative in games(using violence) and she filled it. If you want someone else leading the charge(being the brightest figure head), then you will have to find someone who fits the role better and is popular. And since there is very few people doing it, MrBtongue is the only one, who I found, covered similar subject matters(in an intelligent way), and he only did it once and he posts video's 1 time every 6(4) months. So if you want someone to blame for her arguments being popularized, its the media's fault for not stepping up prior to this, and everyone being fine with it, up till now.
 
Just as poorly the new female villain is in MGSV, he also created one of the greatest female characters in video games, The Boss.

Yes, I'd like to hear his opinions of it.

Kojima is Japanese. I'm not a "Cultural Expert" like some folks on here, but don't they generally have a completely different mindset when it comes to Feminism and female representation?
 
I'd like to make it clear that I in no way sympathize with any of the deniers or praisers of this event. I just think that overgeneralizing a situation and trying to paint everyone on one side as equally bad or whatever doesn't help the cause. Because in this specific case, I honestly believe that most of the bigots are more willfully ignorant assholes trying to justify their hobbies or just ignore the issue rather than improve them, rather than evil monsters who want to rape people to death. The issues in society are very real and very serious. But you can't fix an issue if you paint everyone on the opposing side as evil
I don't know, man. I find it hard to support a cause whose followers doxxed a ten year old boy on the grounds that he thought Daniel Tosh shouldn't be vilified for making a joke about rape.
 
What is the point of this post?

Yeah, it's the classic 'but' post. I'm not a racist, but....

No one deserves threats for making videos, but she is constantly going out of her way to misrepresent games to appear more sexist than they actually are and all of you are just eating up her narrative. I would be really glad if I never had to hear about her or her victim complex ever again.

You read the first sentence and know how it's going to end. No one deserves these threats, but now I'll list why she deserves them.
 
why did she feel the need to include "women" in the harassing part? is it somewhat exclusive to them (I mean, the fact that women harassing has to stop. what about "online harassing" in general)? Int he zoe quinn fiasco more than just females got harassed.

Because women are receiving gendered insults?
 
why did she feel the need to include "women" in the harassing part? is it somewhat exclusive to them (I mean, the fact that women harassing has to stop. what about "online harassing" in general)? Int he zoe quinn fiasco more than just females got harassed.

Yeah, not just females, a guy who stuck up for one too!
 
Adam Baldwin is a douchebag.

I was seriously confused why Adam Baldwin would be tweeting Zoo Quinn conspiracy stuff.

Then I read his feed... the global warming hoax, why feminism is stupid, stop stem cell research, Ferguson police did an awesome job, etc.

Not so surprising in context.

This is also first time in years I've really read a lot of 4chan threads -- was that place always so conservative socially? It's weird because one the one hand they post tons of gore or whatever but politically it reads like a freerepublic.com forum.
 
Ok, I looked up keyboard warrior and it sounds like something bad overall, so I don't really want to be that

but it seemed like he was trying to use the other warrior term but thought he could work around it
 
Absolutely disgraceful. The treatment of women within the "gaming world" is pathetic.

The treatment of everyone with a different opinion then the majority is disgusting. It is everywhere in life not just gaming. It's sad when people can't just start a debate without sending threats or doxxing some one. It doesn't make it right but it's the world we live in and something needs to change.
 
I understand who this person is and that she had a kickstarter to fund these videos, but can someone explain to me why there is this massive outrage over what she's doing?

Edit: Probably shouldn't say "massive outrage", more like "extremely vocal minority."
 
No one deserves threats for making videos, but she is constantly going out of her way to misrepresent games to appear more sexist than they actually are and all of you are just eating up her narrative. I would be really glad if I never had to hear about her or her victim complex ever again.

You may be talking more generally, but in a conversation about threats to someone's safety, that justification is misplaced. Disagreement, or feelings that someone's academic work is poor, or that unfair generalizations are being made in an opinion piece should not be used on any level to rationalize threats of bodily harm.
 
why did she feel the need to include "women" in the harassing part? is it somewhat exclusive to them (I mean, the fact that women harassing has to stop. what about "online harassing" in general)? Int he zoe quinn fiasco more than just females got harassed.

Why did you feel the need to include "online"? What about harassing in general?
Why limit this to harassment? There is all kinds of bad things, what about all the other bad things?
 
If you have an issue with her stuff, to the point of boiling rage/hatred, why would you even watch it?

I just don't understand.
 
why did she feel the need to include "women" in the harassing part? is it somewhat exclusive to them (I mean, the fact that women harassing has to stop. what about "online harassing" in general)? Int he zoe quinn fiasco more than just females got harassed.

The word 'woman' is pretty relevant when a woman is getting gendered insults because she made a video series about the image of women in gaming. It's a pretty damn specific problem, plus anyone who's looked at tech industry and gaming in general these past few years knows that women do have it worse than men in them.
 
This is inexcusable. People are welcome to critique an individual's work in countless ways. Personal threats are not. There is simply no excuse and I will try to actively take part in calling out such acts.

Edit:
This is seriously despicable! It is making the gaming community at large look very misogynistic.
 
Assume you are 100% right, do you think the games she showed are an indication of the medium growing, in terms of story telling? Assume she is completely wrong about the reasons people use the examples that she points out, and assume she is wrong about the consequences of what is happening. Given all of that, she still is point out pretty terrible narrative in games, that for some reason get more of a pass(in narrative terms). Gamer's expectation of narrative is relatively low, at worst she is making developers use less plot porn and think about what they are actually writing.

I mean, the reason she is so popular is because 1, the hate she gets and 2, there was clearly a market for dissection of narrative in games(using violence) and she filled it. If you want someone else leading the charge(being the brightest figure head), then you will have to find someone who fits the role better and is popular. And since there is very few people doing it. MrBtongue is the only one, who I found, covered similar subject matters(in an intelligent way), and he only did it once and he posts video's 1 time every 6(4) months. So if you want someone to blame for her arguments being popularized, its the media's fault for not stepping up prior to this, and everyone being fine with it, up till now.
I agree there's sexism everywhere and women face these issues all the time, I just dont like Anita's videos. She does a bad job arguing get points... but I like you and your legitimate response to me, cheers. Personally I couldn't care less about a games story or narrative, im all about acting on objects... regardless of gender.
 
Ugh.

Who are these people? Like, seriously, who are they?

Is the assumption that they're just a bunch of 12-15 year old basement dwellers correct? I'd sure like to hope so. The other option, that these are grown-ass men, really terrifies me.

Are they American? Or are they tweeting death threats from Bulgaria?

How many people are crazy like this? Is it a group of 20-odd guys from all over the world who find each other online and raise hell, an extremely vocal minority that ruins it for everyone? Or are there really thousands of people that think like this?

Shit is depressing.

UGH

EDIT: I'm going to PAX this weekend. The thought of sharing a building with some of these fucking trolls disgusts and terrifies me. Will they be there?

That's the problem.

They're all around us, and we can't even see it.
 
I don't know, man. I find it hard to support a cause whose followers doxxed a ten year old boy on the grounds that he thought Daniel Tosh shouldn't be vilified for making a joke about rape.
So it's ok that a guy threatened to rape a women and her family to death, just because a few people related to her side (Whom most of us would immediately say is wrong) did bad things. A point remains valid regardless of what the supporters of that point do. And one side being wrong about something doesn't make the other side right.
 
Because women are receiving gendered insults?

males get them too, and i don't want to fall under "but males too" and "not all males"... but I really think the closedminded attitude of making the problem of online harassing gender-depended is not good. I've been harassed online. I've had a person stalk me until he found my real name, then my phone number. All because of a moviebattles 2 (jedi academy mod) server. The inception of the problem does not come from the receptor end.
 
If you have an issue with her stuff, to the point of boiling rage/hatred, why would you even watch it?

I just don't understand.

Yeah, I don't get it either.

I watched the first few, thought she had some good points, but had flaws in presentation/research. So I just stopped watching.

Don't know why people are so up in arms about this stuff, a shame it's come to this. I woe for humanity.
 
If you have an issue with her stuff, at least to the point of boiling rage/hatred, why would you even watch it?

I just don't understand.

Because everyone feels like everything must be won or lost.

I don't particularly care for her work, and while I do understand the point she's making, I don't agree with her, but I don't get amazingly upset about it. Nothing to be won or lost here for 99% of people.

I also think that people are highlighting the extremes as if they are the norm. It just gives legitimacy, when it's not due. Why treat all opinions as equal just because one person, or a small group of people are vocal about something? It does not mean it's worth highlighting or elevating.


Don't know why people are so up in arms about this stuff, a shame it's come to this. I woe for humanity.

It's always been like this, and it will always be like this, and we all need to just stop giving a fuck about outrage or people being offended - on all sides. Humanity's doing alright, we're all doing alright.
 
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