Super Smash Bros. for 3DS & Wii U Thread 14: Snake... had a hard life

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The more I look at the leak the less enthusiastic I can really be with it honestly. I'm super excited for the rest of the newcomers but the cuts still feel so... excessive, y'know? Mewtwo not being in Brawl was sad, but this is even worse. Iconic characters like the Pokemon Trainer and Snake aren't present in any form, the Star Fox series and Earthbound series blatantly went down in playable characters, and the Ice Climbers, Smash mainstays for 13 years, are completely removed from the equation. It just sucks, man.

I really hope all these cuts are rectified through DLC, I would much rather have the 6 cut characters (well, maybe not Squirtle or Ivysaur) over just about any newcomer.
 
Ahnez said:
This

I think its not because of the 3DS hardware

They are very similar to Rosalina and Luma.. two characters with individual damage variables / hitboxes, and both react to the same inputs..
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Similar but the key difference would be the fact that the second iceclimber has much more complex AI than the Luma or Pikmin for Olimar.

If Ice Climbers are cut, I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that 4 ICs with items on on a complex stage in 60fps 3D was too much to handle, the 3DS is great handheld, but let's not give it too much credit.
 
Ahnez said:
This

I think its not because of the 3DS hardware

They are very similar to Rosalina and Luma.. two characters with individual damage variables / hitboxes, and both react to the same inputs..
Click to expand...

Luma only reacts to player inputs, while Nana (or PoPo depending on which alt color one is using) wi act indepently once sepparated. Popo/Nana have an ai when they are by themselves, separated from the player.
 
georly said:
Give me your % odds on if you think this could happen:

  • Japan-exclusive Nintendo direct tomorrow has smash info. No NOA direct at all.
  • NOA presents the same info, live, at PAX Prime

EU does whatever it wants :)
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It would make a lot of sense for Nintendo to show whatever it is, Smash trailer or new game, at the event, then have the Direct show up in Japan just shortly after with a closer look.

Doing anything, other than gameplay demos for known games, live seems very unlike Nintendo these days though.
 
SaikyoBro said:
The more I look at the leak the less enthusiastic I can really be with it honestly. I'm super excited for the rest of the newcomers but the cuts still feel so... excessive, y'know? Mewtwo not being in Brawl was sad, but this is even worse. Iconic characters like the Pokemon Trainer and Snake aren't present in any form, the Star Fox series and Earthbound series blatantly went down in playable characters, and the Ice Climbers, Smash mainstays for 13 years, are completely removed from the equation. It just sucks, man.

I really hope all these cuts are rectified through DLC, I would much rather have the 6 cut characters (well, maybe not Squirtle or Ivysaur) over just about any newcomer.
Click to expand...
Guess it depends on how you look at it. I'm against cuts of any sorts, but it is what it is, so... looking at it as a whole, yeah, some franchises went down, and a couple franchises were eliminated altogether (Metal Gear, Ice Climbers), but we also gained new franchises (Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Mega Man, Punch-Out, Pac-Man, Xenoblade, Duck Hunt, etc) and new reps in other franchises (Mario, Pokemon, Kid Icarus).
 
IntelliHeath said:
For me,

uFRXMHM.gif
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STAHP :(
 
JoeInky said:
If Ice Climbers are cut, I think it's a pretty safe bet to say that 4 ICs with items on on a complex stage in 60fps 3D was too much to handle, the 3DS is great handheld, but let's not give it too much credit.
Click to expand...

That's the thing, though, that's always been the case. Multiple Ice Climbers on certain stages has always been bad for the framerate. If they really couldn't find a fix for it then that's unfortunate, but I'd rather have an Ice Climbers FFA that's not 60 FPS on some stages then not have them at all, I don't understand why NOW they're so picky about the framerate.
 
I had a dream the last two newcomers were Tyranitar (who was huge) and some flying character that looked like Pit from a new game called "Super Mario Kart World".

Sorry Ridley. I guess you're too big for my dreams.
 
SaikyoBro said:
That's the thing, though, that's always been the case. Multiple Ice Climbers on certain stages has always been bad for the framerate. If they really couldn't find a fix for it then that's unfortunate, but I'd rather have an Ice Climbers FFA that's not 60 FPS on some stages then not have them at all, I don't understand why NOW they're so picky about the framerate.
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Framerate is kind of important in a fighting game

Plus, Sakurai is racist against the Inuits, he had an unfortunate ice-fishing accident and they all laughed at him
 
MaverickHunterAsh said:
Well, you probably shouldn't. I mean, it could literally be that we get to play the final build and the roster is the same as we've seen, but I wouldn't be able to say anything even about that. So... don't necessarily take silence as a sign of something substantial! All it really means is we're not allowed to talk about what we saw and played yet, whatever it ends up being.



Given what happened to Nintendo recently with leaks, I'm scared to do even that, so... :P



I will try very, very hard for that chain of events not to happen. ;)
Click to expand...

If you learn something new, use the code "nothing new at pax, guys"
 
Neiteio said:
Guess it depends on how you look at it. I'm against cuts of any sorts, but it is what it is, so... looking at it as a whole, yeah, some franchises went down, and a couple franchises were eliminated altogether (Metal Gear, Ice Climbers), but we also gained new franchises (Animal Crossing, Wii Fit, Mega Man, Punch-Out, Pac-Man, Xenoblade, Duck Hunt, etc) and new reps in other franchises (Mario, Pokemon, Kid Icarus).
Click to expand...

Yeah absolutely, I love the newcomer selection, Little Mac was my most wanted so I can't be too upset with anything I guess. It's just really unfortunate that these newcomers really came at a cost regarding veterans...
 
SaikyoBro said:
The more I look at the leak the less enthusiastic I can really be with it honestly. I'm super excited for the rest of the newcomers but the cuts still feel so... excessive, y'know? Mewtwo not being in Brawl was sad, but this is even worse. Iconic characters like the Pokemon Trainer and Snake aren't present in any form, the Star Fox series and Earthbound series blatantly went down in playable characters, and the Ice Climbers, Smash mainstays for 13 years, are completely removed from the equation. It just sucks, man.

I really hope all these cuts are rectified through DLC, I would much rather have the 6 cut characters (well, maybe not Squirtle or Ivysaur) over just about any newcomer.
Click to expand...

Preach brother.

Qurupeke said:
Dark Pit is not a Pit clone...
Click to expand...

All of my rage.
 
MaverickHunterAsh said:
Well, you probably shouldn't. I mean, it could literally be that we get to play the final build and the roster is the same as we've seen, but I wouldn't be able to say anything even about that. So... don't necessarily take silence as a sign of something substantial! All it really means is we're not allowed to talk about what we saw and played yet, whatever it ends up being.
Click to expand...

Ah, fair. Either way new info or not, just have fun there bro while I weep in envy!
 
The two veterans I'm most thankful were saved are R.O.B. and Mr. Game & Watch. Back when we used to dream and post mock rosters, they were the two veterans I'd check for first — if they were absent, I wouldn't take the rest of that person's roster seriously. But as much as I believed in them, and as much as I believed Sakurai valued them, I had a small sliver of doubt as to whether they'd make the cut. Suffice it to say, I'm extremely glad they're in the game. :-)
 
SaikyoBro said:
The more I look at the leak the less enthusiastic I can really be with it honestly. I'm super excited for the rest of the newcomers but the cuts still feel so... excessive, y'know? Mewtwo not being in Brawl was sad, but this is even worse. Iconic characters like the Pokemon Trainer and Snake aren't present in any form, the Star Fox series and Earthbound series blatantly went down in playable characters, and the Ice Climbers, Smash mainstays for 13 years, are completely removed from the equation. It just sucks, man.

I really hope all these cuts are rectified through DLC, I would much rather have the 6 cut characters (well, maybe not Squirtle or Ivysaur) over just about any newcomer.
Click to expand...

ice climbers are the only cut that bothers me. pokemon has a ridiculous amount of representation as it is and Snake was never a good match for the series. It would certainly be nice for earthbound and Star Fox to have better representation but I don't mind cutting clones.
 
Jawmuncher said:
I'm still wondering what my reaction will be if we seriously end up seeing a "newcomer" inherit Snakes moveset.
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Mii Gunner has rocket launcher.

Pretty sure Sheik has the grenade now?

Duck Hunt Dog will likely take the gist of his Final Smash, although ZSS' is already similar enough.
 
MaverickHunterAsh said:
Well, you probably shouldn't. I mean, it could literally be that we get to play the final build and the roster is the same as we've seen, but I wouldn't be able to say anything even about that. So... don't necessarily take silence as a sign of something substantial! All it really means is we're not allowed to talk about what we saw and played yet, whatever it ends up being.



Given what happened to Nintendo recently with leaks, I'm scared to do even that, so... :P



I will try very, very hard for that chain of events not to happen. ;)
Click to expand...
Ash, just tell us what you see and then blame it on your evil doppelganger, DarkMaverickHunterAsh. Nintendo knows how it goes with Dark ___, they'll understand.
 
kunonabi said:
ice climbers are the only cut that bothers me. pokemon has a ridiculous amount of representation as it is and Snake was never a good match for the series. It would certainly be nice for earthbound and Star Fox to have better representation but I don't mind cutting clones.
Click to expand...

So much wrong on a single post.
 
kunonabi said:
ice climbers are the only cut that bothers me. pokemon has a ridiculous amount of representation as it is and Snake was never a good match for the series. It would certainly be nice for earthbound and Star Fox to have better representation but I don't mind cutting clones.
Click to expand...

Snake was a great match, and brought a lot of humor to Brawl.
 
SaikyoBro said:
That's the thing, though, that's always been the case. Multiple Ice Climbers on certain stages has always been bad for the framerate. If they really couldn't find a fix for it then that's unfortunate, but I'd rather have an Ice Climbers FFA that's not 60 FPS on some stages then not have them at all, I don't understand why NOW they're so picky about the framerate.
Click to expand...

Well obviously if they're cut then the framerate would have to be super bad, it's basically the equivalent of having 4 players and 4 cpus at the same time, if the 3DS needs to have assists and items at 30fps to run properly then it's completely possible ice climbers just didn't work.


I mean, they're not going to be cut because of relevancy concerns or because "Duck Hunt Dog is now the NES rep" or whatever like someone said before.
 
PadWarrior said:
Dr mario is given snakes moves
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No one would know how to feel.

Macka said:
Mii Gunner has rocket launcher.

Pretty sure Sheik has the grenade now?

Duck Hunt Dog will likely take the gist of his Final Smash, although ZSS' is already similar enough.
Click to expand...

Him being pulled apart like that is worse than a character inheriting I gotta say.
Oh you liked these different aspects of snake? Well there all over the place so good luck.
 
MaverickHunterAsh said:
That's actually a great idea. Except you just know that Bill or someone from the Treehouse is reading this thread RIGHT NOW and knows what to look out for now. And my dream is to one day work at the Treehouse, so... ;)
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Mine too! Let's be treehouse buddies (though you're considerably further ahead in the progress meter than I am). Keep that secret, do a good job :) Nintendo doesn't want to hire a leaker :)
 
My guess is that at the Closed Media Event will be a live execution of the leaker to set an example to all those in the press that reported on the leaks.
 
Climber AI is, in my opinion, one of the most unnecessary things implemented in their code.

A simple xy follow, while still reacting to inputs, is enough.. I mean, its not like AI climber can do anything against human players at all..
 
I dunno if you guys understand my point about the Ice Climbers.

I'm saying that a 4 player free for all with them in Melee and Brawl hurt the framerate as well. I don't know why it wasn't a concern in those games but is in this one. Unless having even one pair of the ICs causes framerate drops then I think they should have included them anyway since in previous games it didn't really get bad unless you had 3 or 4 of them.
 
Macka said:
This is getting ridiculous.

1. Even if Sakurai had intended for the shadow to just be a teaser for Ridley's role as a stage boss, he still has to have noticed the reaction it caused and that it just fueled people's expectations for him to be a playable character even more. He has had plenty of opportunities to clarify the confusion in the months since that direct, and he hasn't.

2. Sakurai has mentioned in interviews that he does not like to 'lead on' fans when it comes to characters they want in the game, because that can lead to negative hype. He has deconfirmed other characters without any ambiguity, so why would he treat Ridley differently?

3. Sakurai loves to play with peoples expectations and troll. Remember the Ganondorf POTD for Brawl, where the caption was asking why he didn't use his sword? Remember the ZSS deconfirm and immediate reveal? How about the build up to Palutena's reveal? He does this ALL THE TIME so I have no idea why the Ridley shadow can't possibly be a similar thing.

4. Every other character that has been ambiguously 'revealed' so far has ended up playable. Dark Pit showing up at the end of the Palutena trailer. Mr. Game & Watch.

5. Lastly, I'm don't think any of us are saying Ridley is definitely in. We're just saying there's a chance, and I think it's silly to be so confident that he isn't in the game, given there is NO CLEAR EVIDENCE. Your evidence for him not being in the game is that it was heavily implied he was a boss. That isn't proof.
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Perhaps Sakurai didn't really think he was being ambiguous? And he wouldn't have heard the outcry because he only speaks Japanese and Japanese fans don't give a shit about metroid at all and as such Ridley wouldn't be on the radar over there. And I wouldn't consider the way he was ambiguously revealed to be similar at all to Game and Watch or Dark Pit
 
SaikyoBro said:
I dunno if you guys understand my point about the Ice Climbers.

I'm saying that a 4 player free for all with them in Melee and Brawl hurt the framerate as well. I don't know why it wasn't a concern in those games but is in this one. Unless having even one pair of the ICs causes framerate drops then I think they should have included them anyway since in previous games it didn't really get bad unless you had 3 or 4 of them.
Click to expand...

Neither of those games had to drop Assists and Pokemon to 30fps to get a solid 60 framerate or render the game in 3D, if the frame rate drops slightly then that is fine like you say, but given the other concessions I think it's safe to say Ice Climbers could cause some serious framerate issues on the 3DS version.
 
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