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[Vlade]

The disempowered (or those who feel they're disempowered) are easily motivated to lash out socially in any way they can. That applies to the monsters behind the threats to Sarkeesian's life just as much as it does the overly-aggressive segments of the Feminist movement.

Subsequent context: One of those examples is rightfully illegal, and the other is merely annoying. Think about that before they're equated in anyone's mind.

You entertain too much. She was threatened and forced to leave her home. Calling it into question and representing it as an argument that has sides that should be heard is insane. That people who issue these threats have a valid point is also insane; if a point be made, I won't receive it on the back of threats.

Furthermore, the insinuation that if you care about women you must surely join this other ideology is nuts. No one needs to slide their feelings into an inactive stance that serves only to marginalize the original event we are talking about. 'Sure she received death threats, but men suffer too'.

I agree with your examples, but to me, you are being exceedingly kind. Sure there is a point there, but making it here makes light of a person being scared for her family enough that they left their home.

 

[ishibear]

I'm bookmarking this post. Thank you for writing it. Feminism is a subject I want to be more aware of, and posts like this are a big help.

Thanks! I'm glad to help :3

 

[DoktorEvil]

Let me start by saying it is wrong to treat people like this because you don't agree with them. I read some of the sick stuff people say to her(because she tweets that stuff out but not counter arguments) and even though I think she is ignorant she still does not deserve this treatment. That being said do we know how it got "worse"? How do we know this is not just a publicity stunt? I just do not see how the harassment could get any worse.

Until there's evidence contrary to that effect, it should be safe to assume the threat was legitimate.

 

[ChawlieTheFair]

A few years ago I tried a social experiment. I was playing Street Fighter 4 online on PS3, and I changed my username to something innocuous but clearly female- I legitimately don't remember what the name was. It wasn't anything suggestive or sexual, just had the word 'lady' or 'girl' in the title somewhere.

Played online as Chun-Li in random matches for about 2 hours. Didn't use a mic or anything, just fought strangers for fun. I won some, I lost some.

Turned off the machine when I was done, and the next day when I checked my messages on PSN I had no less than 7 profane and harassing messages from strangers I'd played against. It was illuminating and depressing.

How did you change your PSN name?

 

[SeanR1221]

How did you change your PSN name?

I assume he just created a new name

 

[Gestault]

I agree with your overall point, but is it wrong to equate them in the sense that they both deserve to be ignored or weeded out? Being an asshole who can't engage in a healthy, reasonable discussion without making threats or lashing out invariably makes the situation even worse than it already is. Setting an example is definitely important here.

I suppose in those terms, yes? It's best to ignore something annoying, but you simply can't ignore plausible threats. My point was more about the common motivation stemming from feeling powerless.

 

[Winterfang]

Very brave of her to keep doing it.

 

[Gestault]

You entertain too much. She was threatened and forced to leave her home. Calling it into question and representing it as an argument that has sides that should be heard is insane. That people who issue these threats have a valid point is also insane; if a point be made, I won't receive it on the back of threats.

Furthermore, the insinuation that if you care about women you must surely join this other ideology is nuts. No one needs to slide their feelings into an inactive stance that serves only to marginalize the original event we are talking about. 'Sure she received death threats, but men suffer too'.

I agree with your examples, but to me, you are being exceedingly kind. Sure there is a point there, but making it here makes light of a person being scared for her family enough that they left their home.

I'm gonna have to file this under "WAT" with some of what you supposedly pulled from my post. My point is helping explain that the feeling, justified or otherwise, of powerlessness is at the root of both groups involved here. I composed it in response to people asking directly "how can people act like this?" The bolded sections are nonsense as response to what I wrote.

 

[Zomba13]

I don't think i'll ever understand shit like this...

It's fine to disagree but don't resort to insults and threats.

Real scary shit.

Yeah, I don't fully agree with all the examples she uses or necessarily the way she presents the information but people who resort to insults and threats over stuff like this of all things are just terrible people.

She is doing a service that is doing good whether you like it or not. She is shining a spotlight onto some harmful tropes devs regularly fall back on either due to laziness or some kind of unconscious misogyny and getting people to think about representation of women in games. People who are insulting her and threatening her and her family with death and posting her address etc and absolute scum. Of course though you will get people defending or excusing them or enabling but they are just as bad.

People just need to grow the fuck up online and stop being absolute scum because they can get away with it. Shit needs to be taken as seriously online as it is off. Who cares what form a death threat or harassment comes in? What difference does it make whether verbal, a letter, an email or a private message on twitter? It's still disgusting and frighting and the authorities should do something about it. Free speech doesn't give you the right to harass people and and threaten them and their families with death.

 

[Vlade]

I'm gonna have to file this under "WAT" with some of what you supposedly pulled from my post. My point is helping explain that the feeling, justified or otherwise, of powerlessness is at the root of both groups involved here. I composed it in response to people asking directly "how can people act like this?" The bolded sections are nonsense as response to what I wrote.

Sorry, the second section had nothing to do with your post, was just part of my cobbled together thought.

 

[Lakitu]

How can some people go through life with so much hate and negativity for other people? It really boggles my mind. Horrible what she has to go through.

 

[Gestault]

Sorry, the second section had nothing to do with your post, was just part of my cobbled together thought.

OH, ok, that makes a lot more sense, lol. With so many people asking about motivation, I feel pretty strongly that this sort of explanation is appropriate, but I was also compelled to point out how they aren't on the same level,.

 

[stufte]

You realize you're not allotted one singular label, right? You can be both. In fact, being both clarifies your position much better. The attitude you're taking perpetuates the very "opposing team" idea that you dislike.

I don't see how it does. I could easily identify as many things, some I choose to for sake of ease when having a conversation about points of view. The problem is that more often than not, people have a pre-concieved notion of what certain labels are, and tends to derail a conversation fast. I've found (for me of course) that when I enter into a conversation about feminism or atheism or politics, it produces a much healthier conversation when the discussion is about what I believe, not the ideological monikers that those beliefs fall under.

People are lazy in general, and find it comforting to be able to put people into a box and dismiss them quickly. I choose to remove that barrier (in most cases) IRL so that I can chat to those that may be resistant in a much more fluid way. You'd be surprised at how open to ideas people can be when they aren't given the chance to immediately box you in.

 

[Cymbal Head]

lots of stuff

It's possible that you legitimately don't realize this, but you've been consistently raising the specters of tired arguments ("equalist," oppression olympics) that feminists have already been dealing with for decades and that posters on GAF specifically have seen in every single Anita Sarkeesian thread and then some. In that light, don't be surprised if people are impatient with you.

 

[Etnos]

Very sad situation... There is a long and interesting discussion in the last iddle thumbs podcast about this.

 

[unbias]

The question I want to see answered is how long are we going to allow Twitter and the like to be used as tools with which to intimidate and oppress people?

Its insane. Its gives these fuckers the attention they crave so its not just a weapon its a massive enabler.

It's like the paparazzi, unfortunately. Yes, what they(paparazzi) do is horrible and a lot of the time borderline illegal if not illegal, but they are tolerated because the current setup allows promotion. Twitter has caused more issues(in terms of communication), in terms of death threats and other shit, imo, then any singular issue in sports, movies, games, and politics, yet it is continually used by the popular hordes as a platform to spread their cultural personalities. Tags are considered adequate responses to discourse, used to harass people you disagree with, used to get people fired becasue they do dumb stuff on it, make popular people apologize for what they said on twitter, and ect.

Welcome to the internet's paparazzi/tmz, imo, and it is here to stay it looks like.

 

[BruiserBear]

I actually think announcing that she left her home is only going to embolden the people who send her these types of messages. It's like saying "hey, you guys have really upset me", to a group of people who's sole desire is to upset her.

The real story here for me is why the fuck Twitter won't nuke these people's accounts and IP addresses into orbit.

 

[Lime]

The real story here for me is why the fuck Twitter won't nuke these people's accounts and IP addresses into orbit.

Twitter is super terrible at protecting people exposed to harrassment and discrimination.

 

[JumpJeff84]

How did you change your PSN name?

I don't think I changed my PSN name...my PSN name is the same as my GAF name, and therefore is non gender-specific. But SFIV lets you change the name of your 'avatar' that you fight as, if I remember correctly.

It wasn't a system change, but in the game itself.

 

[Kiriku]

Seems like Richard Garriott is also getting involved:

https://twitter.com/RichardGarriott/status/505077609873412096

@manwhohatesfun @TheQuinnspiracy I am stunned to find the backlash I have received just for retweeting @femfreq Hard to imagine why.

https://twitter.com/RichardGarriott/status/505074445506338816

@Astrobia Without regard to whether you agree with all she says, or her making a profession of it, the backlash proves her basic point.

 

[Gestault]

I actually think announcing that she left her home is only going to embolden the people who send her these types of messages. It's like saying "hey, you guys have really upset me", to a group of people who's sole desire is to upset her.

You shouldn't ignore a serious threat just to make a statement in a situation like this. She's in a no-win game, and that's not by accident. Her making more content would rile up the extremists among her detractors. Her not making more content would embolden the extremists among her detractors.

She actively avoided giving audience to the regular harassment she received. This time is only different because of the threats naming people and places in her life. Admittedly, I sent a Tweet very similar to what you said here in reply to her disclosure of what was going on. Having thought about it for a few days, I don't feel the same way.

 

[plagiarize]

Male entitlement:

Thinking that you shouldn't get insulted for voicing your negative opinion about Anita Sarkeesian in a thread about how she and her families received specific death threats because she dared voice hers.

 

[BruiserBear]

You shouldn't ignore a serious threat just to make a statement in a situation like this. She's in a no-win game, and that's not by accident. Her making more content would rile up the extremists among her detractors. Her not making more content would embolden the extremists among her detractors.

She actively avoided giving audience to the regular harassment she received. This time is only different because of the threats naming people and places in her life. Admittedly, I sent a Tweet very similar to what you say here in reply to her disclosure of what was going on. Having thought about it for a few days, I don't feel the same way.

I'm not talking about her leaving her house. I'm talking about her ANNOUNCING that she's leaving her house. She didn't have to do that.

 

[stufte]

Male entitlement:

Thinking that you shouldn't get insulted for voicing your negative opinion about Anita Sarkeesian in a thread about how she and her families received specific death threats because she dared voice hers.

People shouldn't get insulted for having an opinion that you disagree with.

Just like people shouldn't insult Anita for hers.

The death threats are on a whole other level though.

 

[plagiarize]

I'm not talking about her leaving her house. I'm talking about her ANNOUNCING that she's leaving her house. She didn't have to do that.

She's all about calling out sexism where she sees fit. I don't think her own twitter feed is out of bounds. I'm not sure how familiar you are about twitter, but people generally tweet about stuff that's important to them.

 

[aeolist]

From my point of view, part of the problem of Anita's video is mainly that it only focuses on women. Most of what she says is right on many levels and I would only argue against the way she presents her ideas and some examples she uses. I know that pointing a finger at the representation of women is the whole point of those videos but I think a study of both gender representation would benefit a lot to this discussion. For many reasons, as a young white guy, I just hate Duke Nukem and all the dudebros of Gears of War because I just hate how these games depict males. A lot of praise were given to Druckmann for the character of Elie, but meeting Joel was more of a relief for me, even though he can be seen as "bad" character.

the problem with this is that if you don't like a certain type of male character you have a lot of choice available to you. bald space marines not your thing? why not play as a novelist, physicist, street urchin, engineer, or any number of different types of characters across all genres?

women who want to see positive representations of female characters in games have far, far fewer options

One of the main subject of the many things I read is this idea of "white male" to describe the majority that has power. It occupies a lot of the threads I read on the subject, sometimes more than Anita's arguments. Even though I completely understand the idea behind those words, I also completely understand how agressive they might seem for someone that read them for the first time. A lot of this vocabulary comes from the 70's when feminist activism needed to have punchlines to exist and be heard. I feel like some of the guys that watch Anita's video take all this for themselves, maybe thinking Anitas is pointing a finger at them and is declaring them guilty of hating women. Add to this that a lot of those guys use videogame as escapism from being a teenager, from school and its violence and you have an explosive situation.

if you feel that way it's on you. not once in any of anita's videos has she accused anyone of being sexist. she points to trends and explains why they're bad, someone taking it personally when it's not even remotely phrased that way isn't her fault.

 

[Gestault]

I'm not talking about her leaving her house. I'm talking about her ANNOUNCING that she's leaving her house. She didn't have to do that.

I think the community around her would be curious enough about her actions in response to the threat that if it was revealed what was going on and she hadn't announced it prior, that in itself would be seen as the sort of response that could encourage the abuse. Like I said, I see this very much as a no-win game and I don't think that's a stretch.

 

[SovereignSnake]

You condemn the behavior, then call her ignorant and accuse her of making it all up for attention?

Yes. She is ignorant of the many subjects that her videos "cover." Ignorant: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

What possible real gain could a person have from a "publicity stunt" like this?

Publicity: The notice or attention given to someone or somthing by the media.

Jesus christ, she was threatened with the location of her house and knowledge of someone having access to her information regarding her friends and family.


the fact that you can even imagine a scenario in which this is done for attention is just...fucked.

People have been doing worse things for attention. If this is fake it would not surprise me.

Until there's evidence contrary to that effect, it should be safe to assume the threat was legitimate.

Do you know what they say about assuming? Because they say a lot about it. Assume: to think that something is true or probably true without knowing that it is true

 

[$h@d0w]

By announcing her leaving of her house, she let them win.

 

[firen]

I am not sure that you are aware, but anytime a discussion about women's issue is brought up, there is always the point of 'what about men?' as well. Often to the point that the whole discussion is derailed and the original point is completely buried.

Yes, there are problematic representations of men in gaming as well. To argue that they are on the same level, or that women gamers who are interested in effecting change so that their gender is no longer merely window dressing in a genre they love should focus instead on men's representations is kinda odd.

Yes exactly!

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Yes. She is ignorant of the many subjects that her videos "cover." Ignorant: lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated.

Publicity: The notice or attention given to someone or somthing by the media.

People have been doing worse things for attention. If this is fake it would not surprise me.

Do you know what they say about assuming? Because they say a lot about it. Assume: to think that something is true or probably true without knowing that it is true

And here's "this is what Webster's says" guy in this feminist thread.

What is she ignorant of?

 

[aeolist]

Twitter is super terrible at protecting people exposed to harrassment and discrimination.

protecting free speech at the cost of everything else is par for the course when it comes to lots of tech companies

 

[BruiserBear]

She's all about calling out sexism where she sees fit. I don't think her own twitter feed is out of bounds. I'm not sure how familiar you are about twitter, but people generally tweet about stuff that's important to them.

I'm just pointing out that her announcing this just gave those who send her threats exactly what they want. In a way she's just told them that what they're doing is getting results.

I think the community around her would be curious enough about her actions in response to the threat that if it was revealed what was going on and she hadn't announced it prior, that in itself would be seen as the sort of response that could encourage the abuse. Like I said, I see this very much as a no-win game and I don't think that's a stretch.

She could have tweeted that she's reported the threats to the authorities, and left it at that. That type of message lets the abusers know she's not fucking around, but it also doesn't tell them you just scared me into leaving my house for the night.

 

[thesaucetastic]

By announcing her leaving of her house, she let them win.

So she should've just stayed, where some person she doesn't even know can watch her and hurt her?

 

[plagiarize]

People shouldn't get insulted for having an opinion that you disagree with.

Just like people shouldn't insult Anita for hers.

The death threats are on a whole other level though.

If you voice your opinion in an inappropriate context, I'm going to insult you. This is not the place to criticize Anita's videos. There are other threads where you are free to do that, and you will not be called names for doing so.

Anita withstands way more criticism than most of the people criticizing her here are crying about 'suffering'.

The way freedom of speech works, is that you can have your opinion, and I can judge you for voicing it. If you voice an opinion I think is racist, I can call you a racist even if you find that insulting.

The way it doesn't work is if someone voices an opinion you don't like, that you are then justified in committing a crime against them.

That is what has happened to Anita. But sure, it's way more important that people get to voice their concerns about the term 'manchild', get to say she is probably milking this for publicity, or complain about how she doesn't allow youtube comments without someone saying something mean at them for doing so.

Because if you're entitled, you think you're entitled to compassion whether you display any compassion or not.

 

[BruiserBear]

So she should've just stayed, where some person she doesn't even know can watch her and hurt her?

I'll say it one more time. She could have left her house without announcing it on Twitter.

 

[Vlade]

"OK, she got death threats. She still handled it wrong, that's all I'm saying."

Spoiler

please

 

[Cels]

pretty sad that people do these kinds of stupid things.

i think the only thing she ever really did wrong when it comes to her videos is stealing footage and fanart from other people with a blanket fair use claim at the end. at least point out which let's players or artists whose work you're using in your videos.

but other than that i don't see what these people are so mad about

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

I'll say it one more time. She could have left her house without announcing it on Twitter.

I hope you can understand how weird it is for a man to be saying an openly very feminist woman handled this very specific situation regarding herself wrong and that you know the right answer for her.

 

[JerC]

So she should've just stayed, where some person she doesn't even know can watch her and hurt her?

Any public speaker who says something "controversial" gets threats like this. The people sending the threats are cowards who would probably wet themselves if they had to actually confront someone in real life.

 

[EdibleKnife]

I hope you can understand how weird it is for a man to be saying an openly very feminist woman handled this very specific situation regarding herself wrong and that you know the right answer for her.

This. Seriously what is this supposed standard operating procedure when someone threatens you and your family with sexual violence?

 

[stufte]

Any public speaker who says something "controversial" gets threats like this. The people sending the threats are cowards who would probably wet themselves if they had to actually confront someone in real life.

When it comes to my personal safety, I'll lean more towards over cautious. I don't like the odds of probably when it comes to my life or the life of my family.

 

[Brakke]

Any public speaker who says something "controversial" gets threats like this. The people sending the threats are cowards who would probably wet themselves if they had to actually confront someone in real life.

Except, you know, for the people that send threats and then follow up on them by murdering people...

 

[JerC]

First sentence: That is not true, actually.

Second sentence: Would you really take that chance if the threats were leveled against you?

Actually it is. Most just don't announce it.

I can't say for sure what I would do since it hasn't happened to me. But with a level head now I can say I would stay at home and just alert local authorities and not publish it online. Saying that if it did happen who knows how I would react.

 

[Liu Kang Baking A Pie]

Any public speaker who says something "controversial" gets threats like this. The people sending the threats are cowards who would probably wet themselves if they had to actually confront someone in real life.

I'm scared enough of the weird noises I hear in the dark at night at home without the added fear that someone on the Internet has found my home address and says he will rape me.

 

[plagiarize]

#notallmen think that it's inexcusable for a woman who has suffered abuse and sexism at the hands of men to let that tarnish their view of our whole gender.

that's why the bigots should be outed. that's why we should make sure we aren't doing anything that helps them, intentionally or otherwise.

If I see someone helping a bunch of KKK guys in hoods loading up anti black's rights demonstration signs onto a van, I'm going to think they're racist, even if they're just a super helpful person who helps anyone that needs help loading a van.

And I think that's a completely justified reaction to seeing someone helping the KKK get ready for a demonstration.

If you are criticizing Anita in this thread, you are helping turn public opinion away from her. I don't really care what your intent might be when your reaction to hearing someone has been the victim of a crime is to criticize the victim.

 

[stupei]

This. Seriously what is this supposed standard operating procedure when someone threatens you and your family with sexual violence?

American Airlines should have kept it a secret when they grounded the plane with the bomb threat.

I can see the point you're trying to make BruiserBear, but enough of Sarkeesian's detractors loathe her enough that every single thing she does serves to embolden and enrage them. She can't police her behavior based on what will piss strangers off on twitter or make them more inclined to threaten rape and murder, or she will never do anything.

 

[BruiserBear]

I hope you can understand how weird it is for a man to be saying an openly very feminist woman handled this very specific situation regarding herself wrong and that you know the right answer for her.

Oh vey.

I didn't say what was the right answer for her. I just said something that we all know to be true. Her announcing that she's leaving her house must have delighted those people who sent her the threats.

There's no need to turn this into a witch hunt where anyone who says anything about her reaction is also a sexist man trying to keep her down.

 

[SocksForWoks]

So is this real?

 

[plagiarize]

Actually it is. Most just don't announce it.

I can't say for sure what I would do since it hasn't happened to me. But with a level head now I can say I would stay at home and just alert local authorities and not publish it online. Saying that if it did happen who knows how I would react.

What if your controversial opinion is that people in your area get death threats?

It's a completely different scenario.