Discuss: The new 3DS and the emergent "split userbase"... is this a good trend?

Phamit said:
wasnt Game Boy -> Game Boy Color pretty much the same? Some games was exclusive, but the most games could be played on the old Game Boys too. DS -> DSi worked also like that
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Nope. GBC was different hardware, 'b&w' to colour is a big step.
 
I don't think it's insulting, as hardware upgrades have to happen sometime, and people will always be upset by them.

What I do think is that splitting the consumer base this way is a bad idea unless your upgrade is really worth it - both to the consumer (how much better it is than the old model) and to you (how much more product you'll sell due to releasing it).

In this instance, it looks to be a really underwhelming update, introduced to help sell amiibo and as a carrot to the hardcore crowd still buying their games (see the second stick). But there's no resolution bump, and the industrial design is so similar that the machines might as well be the same. I can't see this sparking sales at all, therefore it can't really be worth it to split the userbase in this way.
 
So, two things.
1. New 3DS is evidently powerful enough to run a port of a Wii title. Sure, they've downgraded the graphics, but still, a Wii title.
2. In talking about the right "nub" on the New 3DS, Iwata explicitly referenced the C-stick on the Gamecube controller

Now, am I just hoping for far too much here, or does this imply we could potentially see ports of Gamecube titles arriving on the New 3DS?
 
I honestly feel like a new model will deflate sales in Nintendo's western markets. They don't seem to have any sort of plan for those territories, so maybe they've mostly just given up on them. The timing on this is bizarre with the holiday approaching, and the msot relevant Christmas markets being ignored. Nintendo is dating hardware it is trying to push for at least the next few months.
 
HolyBaikal said:
Oh... oh wow... this is actually new to me. Sorry.

So, the new 3DS isn't just a new model, but it's better? Like, an upgrade? Is the CPU better?

Well I think it's always good to make updates, and the 3DS has already had a whole bunch. So I don't see why not more? I'm kind of used to needing to buy more unnecessary hardware. And making small upgrades is something I do a lot with my PC.

I don't know if it's a good idea and if most people will like it. But I do.
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Yes the cpu is better
 
I don't understand why couldn't they call it something else. like Super 3DS, or Ultra3DS. I feel a lot of people might get confused buying this for their kids and buying the older version instead. Wii U should also get a hardware update too.
 
duckroll said:
People who say that this is like the DSi don't seem to understand the difference. With the DSi, Nintendo encouraged software to be compatible with the entire hardware family, and DSi exclusive features were generally optional. With the New 3DS, Nintendo themselves are promoting this as a major feature and encouraging New 3DS exclusive software by leading from the front. That is a very interesting difference.

Comparisons with the GBC are much closer.
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With the dsi Nintendo heavily promoted the addition of cameras and suite of games and apps that took advantage of them. Nintendo also led by releasing the first wave of dsi eshop games to promote an all new selection of games that were exclusive to the new dsi platform. I think the situation is very similar.
 
I don't think it's a particularly great idea for NA and PAL regions, tbh, and if this is indicative of how they're going to treat their next, supposedly unified, hardware line, they're going to run into major troubles, I fear.
 
I think it would be great if they had a higher resolution or higher DPI screen with the extra grunt used to push the higher fidelity but this seems like a CPU/horsepower upgrade with the same screen.

I think it should do well in Japan but I'm not sure about the rest of the world. I know I can't get Xenoblade as I can't afford to re-buy a 3DS after re-purchasing one not 6 months back.
 
CreeperBlocks said:
I don't understand why couldn't they call it something else. like Super 3DS, or Ultra3DS. I feel a lot of people might get confused buying this for their kids and buying the older version instead. Wii U should also get a hardware update too.
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Super 3ds would suggest a new generation not an enhanced version of the old
 
Amir0x said:
That's not my point. In fact, you didn't even answer any of my questions posed lol

It's not about people complaining over Nintendo but not MS or Sony. Who gives a shit about that console war nonsense?

I'm talking about the very idea of upgrades themselves. Why is this sort of upgrade inherently negative compared to an entirely new console? If it was designed that way from the start, let's say, where there was a slot to release a hardware upgrade after a set amount of years, but you'd keep your console for decades or more, would this be negative? Why would that be negative versus a 'PS5'?
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Your proposal makes little piratical sense, at best we could have consoles that worked like PC/smartphones but for that we already have PCs and smartphones.

If a console life span was of 3.5 years, I would have never get one.
 
gofreak said:
If you had a slot to turn a PS4 into a 'proper' PS5, they might be equivalent. Although I guess it would be hard to provide a slot that could accomodate an upgrade that would bring a full generational leap.

But piecemeal upgrades (like the new 3DS CPU upgrade) can be dicey. They 'break' the idea of simplicity in buying one box to last x years, which is one of the main selling points of console I think.

Piecemeal upgrades that can't be applied to existing hardware are even worse. It's basically built in obsolescence for machines that ostensibly belong to one hardware cycle.

Now, it kind of doesn't matter if software doesn't migrate alongside these upgrades. Effectively the new sub-platform just becomes a sideshow curiosity rather than something that demands new buy-in from existing customers. But it potentially does add a bit of confusion, and one has to ask if any confusion is worth it for a small niche sub-platform of software. The upside though, is that you give marketing something shiny and new to sell and IMO that's the main motivation for this. The token 'new CPU' change to the runtime environment is just an (unusually aggressive?) push to get sales from existing consumers afraid of future lock-out.
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In my scenario, the upgrade will be solitary - almost like buying a singular new console - and would upgrade the system significantly, but not necessarily as much as if it came out with a whole new hardware unit. But the upside would be a significant decrease in price. Say, for example, the 'upgrade unit' would cost 200 versus 400. Just shooting the shit, but you get my point. There's downsides and upsides, in other words.

Piecemeal solutions I'd agree are dicey, but I'm not exactly sure where we draw the line there. Do we define piecemeal solutions, for example, as systems that keep using controllers that are largely the same generation after generation? If not, why not? Controls are just as important as the technical specs inside, after all. What about a new console that doesn't have a significant technical upgrade, is that a piecemeal solution?

Sakujou said:
is this really true? xenoblade IS ONLY WORKING ON THE NEW ONE???

that would be the biggest downer ever. i mean asking everyone that they NEED the frankenstick is one thing... but the completely update the system is a bit much to ask... especially if you consider that nintendos account system is just the shittiest system to transfer from.

i already have a 3ds and the frankenstick... my little sister has also one,...
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Yes, Xenoblade will only function on the new 3DS. Additionally, Miiverse and eshop and internet browsing will be significantly snappier.

And we're sure to see other games in the future that utilize both the new controls and the new CPU, or else Nintendo would not have included them at all.

Exentryk said:
I just don't like this idea of hardware upgrades. Not everyone buys consoles day 1. Some wait until the system is 2-3 years in, and once the software library starts building up, they'll buy the system. Then, how much would it suck if the company released a new upgraded system, and you couldn't play half the games on the system?

Games take years to make nowadays, and given the console life is only 5-6 years, it's just not practical.
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Why is it different from you buying a system 3 years in and then a company releasing an entirely new console in 5? Why would that be any different than you buying a console for 3 years and then them releasing an upgrade for that same system in 5 years which allowed you access to an entirely new range of games?

Freeman said:
Your proposal makes little piratical sense, at best we could have consoles that worked like PC/smartphones but for that we already have PCs and smartphones.
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Part of the problem with PC upgrades is that the 'knowledge hurdle' many have to jump to actually upgrade their own PCs seems, on the surface to the uninitiated, to be too large to cross. This would be a simple upgrade which requires almost knowledge: a simple 'box' that would slot into your system, almost like an old cartridge.

And again, I'm not taking a stand here. My questioning is specifically to draw out deeper conclusions. I have not really mentioned my own position here.
 
It is the polar opposite of a good trend. Nintendo said fuck you to the whole 3DS/XL userbase (and there are people defending this).
 
Pokemon Gold/Silver is compatible with the original Game Boy while Crystal is GBC only. Nintendo's done this before and they're doing it again, the difference is now the market has changed massively.
 
plenty of new apps/games on apple-store aren't compatible with my iphone 4, yet I don't freak out about it. such is the life of a hardware owner people
 
Its terrible and infuriated me all over again.

I bought an original GBA and the original DS, only for history to teach me a lesson there. Now I waited for a goodwhile on grabbing the 3DSXL, and still here I am. What am I supposed to walk away with here but the lesson "never buy Nintendo hardware until its at end of life"?

My PSP played all games, and I presume my PSVita will too. Both region free of course as well.

Worse still, with no Nintendo account system, anyone that does want to sell now for a good price and put towards the new version will be sacrificing their digital content or wait around for the value to depreciate to do the system transfer with two of these goddam albatrosses side by side.

All for not even that much of a bump because Nintendo doesnt have a clear roadmap to the 4DS or whatever.
 
Also where is this DSi only had 5 exclusive games nonsense coming from?

Sure, it had that many RETAIL games. It also had hundreds of DSiware games, some of them quite good.
 
So what's new about this? All Nintendo handhelds did evolve over time and many revisions added features or made it possible to develop games that could not be played on prior iterations.

The GB did not play GBcolor games.
The GBAmicro lost it's ability to play GB games
The DS does not have all the features of the DSi...

This is nothing new and all this internet-drama about this is kinda sad.

Looking forward to the new 3ds XL.
 
Personally I'm not a fan. They are splitting the userbase, and creating essentially a new platform that will be home to exclusive games not playable on the millions of 3DS systems out there. Worse still it's simply titled "new" 3DS, which is going to be confusing.

I feel like Nintendo's trying to take a page out of Apple's playbook, while forgetting that they're not Apple, and the 3DS is no iPhone. I think that this new revision will be interesting to watch, because 3DS released years ago, and I believe a good chunk of that audience moved on.
.
 
watershed said:
With the dsi Nintendo heavily promoted the addition of cameras and suite of games and apps that took advantage of them. Nintendo also led by releasing the first wave of dsi eshop games to promote an all new selection of games that were exclusive to the new dsi platform. I think the situation is very similar.
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They did. They went to great lengths talking about how DSi tuned games would not run on DS, and also that DSi could play games that DS could play.

Hardly anyone made DSi exclusive games though, and if I remember correctly they were mostly cheap eShop games. Any company with any business sense is not going to ignore 80 million users in favor of a few million users when releasing a game, unless there is some sort of niche discrepancy as you find on Wii U with platformers.

I feel like this is discussion for discussion's sake, needlessly spinning wheels and ignoring historical facts in favor of "provocative" forecasting based on a flimsy and fearmongering yearly smartphone iteration correlation. This is not different than the constant remodels and reiterations of Playstations, Xboxes, Wiis, Wii Us, PSPs, Vitas, or DSs. Nintendo is not doing anything new and pretending like they are is silly.

Is it within the realm of possibility that developers are going to start developing only for the new 3DS specs, ignoring the other 40 million 3DS users out there in favor of the 1 or 2 million New 3DS users? Yes, it's possible. It's also possible we'll wake up tomorrow and the laws of gravity will change and we'll all go flying off into space. It's very unlikely, though.
 
Amir0x said:
Why is it different from you buying a system 3 years in and then a company releasing an entirely new console in 5? Why would that be any different than you buying a console for 3 years and then them releasing an upgrade for that same system in 5 years which allowed you access to an entirely new range of games?
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Because I get more value for my money.

1 Console | 6-7 years | 1000 games | $400
vs
2 Consoles | 6-7 years | 1000 games | $800
 
Salvadora said:
It's probably necessary with the planned interconnectivity between the Wii U and 3DS ( + Amiibo).

Don't imagine exclusive games like Xenoblade will happen very often considering the large existing install base.

It's maybe just a cherry on the cake to get people to upgrade.
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/thread
 
I remember calling an improved 3ds with better hardware (i hoped for new screen and internal memory) with a 2nd stick at E3 and an user said to me "no way it'll happen, there's no point in having a more powerful 3ds which will only spread the userbase, Nintendo is not that stupid".
Yeah alright, who's right now? lol
 
GB color was almost a new console and was released 9years after GB. GB micro is a completely different thing.

DSi made me rag as well. But I learned the lesson, nintendo, there will be no way I'll buy a 4DS until it' s completely dead
 
Exentryk said:
Because I get more value for my money.

1 Console | 6-7 years | 1000 games | $400
vs
2 Consoles | 6-7 years | 1000 games | $800
Click to expand...

But that's not how it would work in this scenario. In this scenario, it'd be:

1 Console; but hardware 'slot' upgrade every 5 or 6 years. The 'slot' upgrade would cost, say, $200 or $250, because it wouldn't require all the other bells and whistles an entirely new console would.

So you'd get 'one' console that would last, say, 12-14 years, that would cost you a total of $600, and you'd get access to 2000 games instead of 1000, since once you buy that simple upgrade (the same as buying a new console, only you'd have the core hardware unit already in your house) you'd have a system that was future proofed for a little while longer and access to more games that utilize the upgrade... and you'd save.
 
Justice_dp said:
So what's new about this? All Nintendo handhelds did evolve over time and many revisions added features or made it possible to develop games that could not be played on prior iterations.

The GB did not play GBcolor games.
The GBAmicro lost it's ability to play GB games
The DS does not have all the features of the DSi...

This is nothing new and all this internet-drama about this is kinda sad.

Looking forward to the new 3ds XL.
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You understand the climate is a little different with handhelds vs the times of GB and even DS. It's not something to rage over so let's be clear.

It is something that even affects me as I recently re-purchased a 3DS. In today's economy, I can't just throw money around.
 
Bulbagarden said:
So, two things.
1. New 3DS is evidently powerful enough to run a port of a Wii title. Sure, they've downgraded the graphics, but still, a Wii title.
2. In talking about the right "nub" on the New 3DS, Iwata explicitly referenced the C-stick on the Gamecube controller

Now, am I just hoping for far too much here, or does this imply we could potentially see ports of Gamecube titles arriving on the New 3DS?
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Hoping way too far there.
 
The original 3DS CPU was such a ridiculous bottleneck. Games with 3D gameplay had to have extremely rudimentary environments or run at borderline unplayable framerates (or both), which kind of defeats the purpose of having a 3D screen in the first place. (Not that sidescrolling games can't be impressive in 3D, but still, with actual 3D environments it's a lot more impressive.) So you can be mad at Nintendo for gimping the CPU on the original systems, but if the improved CPU can lead to expansive games like Xenoblade coming out, I can't be too upset.
 
Meh don't know why people are complaining. Want the few exclusive games? Buy the new system.

This has happened with dsi, gbc, hell even wiimote plus.
 
Slixshot said:
I think they chose a shitty name. If this was called the Super 3DS, people wouldn't be saying the same thing.
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Except the 3ds isn't nearly as successful or even impressive (library wise) as the old gameboy or gameboy color. Plus the lifetime of the original gameboy series was huge.
 
Roboleon said:
plenty of new apps/games on apple-store aren't compatible with my iphone 4, yet I don't freak out about it. such is the life of a hardware owner people
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Imagine this scenario owning a 5 or you own a 5s that would be obsolete as soon as the 6 drops this year.
 
I bought my 3DS XL 9 months ago just to play Pokémon.

This revision made me sad, not because of the better CPU or new buttons, but because of the exclusive ''new games''. It's not like Xenoblade is a fucking shit game like all the DSi exclusives. Oh well... at least I know I will be wary of this with their new systems. The precedent is there with DS and now with the 3DS.
 
Bulbagarden said:
So, two things.
1. New 3DS is evidently powerful enough to run a port of a Wii title. Sure, they've downgraded the graphics, but still, a Wii title.
2. In talking about the right "nub" on the New 3DS, Iwata explicitly referenced the C-stick on the Gamecube controller

Now, am I just hoping for far too much here, or does this imply we could potentially see ports of Gamecube titles arriving on the New 3DS?
Click to expand...
Beyond stretching right now. You're practically doing yoga lol
 
I assume there's a feeling at Nintendo that if the tablet masses are accepting of the notion (Bioshock on early iPads, anyone?), then it could in theory work for handhelds.

I think they're potentially right, but they do need to establish some sort of clear nomenclature that makes it very apparent that a given game can work on a given piece of hardware. I'm not quite sure 'New' is sufficient in that regard, and if this is a long-term plan, I don't think it'll work when the third iteration comes to light.

(I've thought something similar about the original plan for Steam Machines, actually; that's a problem that, if we are going to have regular revisions of hardware, we need to conquer. I don't think anyone's really got the right idea for that yet.)
 
They resolved a few issues, namely nintendos own problems with porting wii assists to the 3DS with this revision. Which is a good thing for consumers of nintendo games.

Increasingly were in a market where any device is slowly made incompatible by incremental hardware updates over a shorter span of time. Handheld consoles do fit in that space.

Its a smart move to breathe growth into the 3DS. It's needed. If nothing more it focuses on keeping the active user invested in their platform, which were seeing is needed for handheld consoles given the decline.

There's nothing wrong with expanding a handheld consoles life by extending its capability to deliver a better game experience. It's not as if your previous revision wasnt supported with a full library... Nor is support being negated with future content.

Hopefully the new revision supports the 3DS tree long enough to where we see enough software to benefit the upgrades.
 
It feels like the Gameboy to Gameboy Color release.
I imagine the majority of games will still work on old 3DS's, but that you'll get additional benefits from playing them on the New 3DS (higher framerate, higher resolution if the screen are higher res, etc) so ultimately it won't really split the userbase.

At least it can revitalize the platform without having to release a completely new generation of portable HW.
 
Roboleon said:
Pie and Beans
Look for me on the local news, I'll be the guy arrested for trying to burn down a Nintendo exec's house.
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Top quality discussion as ever, cheers. I'll take it that from cutting off the rest of my post, you agree my points are un-debatable.
 
I have no problem with Nintendo announcing these things, I have a problem with people overreacting to these things.

Some people make such a big deal when an "in-between" iteration of Nintendo's current handheld or home console comes out. But where exactly is the problem?
Is it because people think that they feel betrayed now that the hardware is a little bit more powerful or has features the old model doesn't have?
Because if so that's a bit ignorant concerning the fact that this handheld or console has been out for several years now and construction has become profitable just now and wasn't so when the handheld originally launched.

Or is it because they JUST bought their new or used console/handheld a few days prior to the announcement?
Well, that's tough luck I guess. There is never the right time to announce a new version of your product.

I myself bought a used 3DS XL just a month ago. Now Nintendo announced the New 3DS and New 3DS XL with a few new features, better battery, blablabla. Am I mad? No. I'm not even dissapointed or anything. I'm happy with what I bought because I wanted to buy it, otherwise I obviously wouldn't have bought it.

Now if they announced a new version of their handheld every year, that's where I would get angry.


Maybe the people complaining about these new hardware revisions are also those people who complain that Apple brings out a new iPhone every year, yet they still buy it.

I hate to say it because I don't like to use the term but...these are just First World Problems.
 
I guess I may be the minority, but this does 2 things for me:

Makes me not want to bother buying more games for my already "outdated" hardware.

Doesn't entice me to buy the new hardware because I've already invested in an ecosystem where I assumed I'd be able to play all the major releases for at least a couple more years.


Nintendo has taken a customer who purchases at least a dozen games a year for their handheld and turned him into someone that won't buy anything after Curtain Call. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
 
Bulbagarden said:
So, two things.
1. New 3DS is evidently powerful enough to run a port of a Wii title. Sure, they've downgraded the graphics, but still, a Wii title.
2. In talking about the right "nub" on the New 3DS, Iwata explicitly referenced the C-stick on the Gamecube controller

Now, am I just hoping for far too much here, or does this imply we could potentially see ports of Gamecube titles arriving on the New 3DS?
Click to expand...

The 3DS Xenoblade game is a remake, not just a port. It looks much worse than the Wii version and also runs at a lower res. They can't just take Wii titles and port them to the new 3DS, they have to remake them. I can't imagine Nintendo having enough manpower to continue making Wii U and 3DS titles and also remake Wii/GC games for the new 3DS. Hell, they can barely manage the split between the Wii U and 3DS right now.
 
I don't see it as a big deal, though of there are going to be many exclusives then the name is dumb and will cause consumer confusion. Personally, I sold my 3DSXL last month and have no interest in the new model.
 
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