Is Mainstream Hatred Of Anime Growing?

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wonzo said:
fixed
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iUCOtI5Lo1uKV.jpg
 
BluWacky said:
Doesn't have very good animation, which is why I didn't suggest it.



Not legally available in America (although it is in Australia). I would have recommended it otherwise.



It's 70 episodes long - too long for the first criterion IMO. Also no longer legally available in America, I believe.
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Ah, damn. Man that is an extremely stringent list.
 
Stumpokapow said:
Please do. Here are my requirements:

- if it is a series, that it is short with no filler
- should not be built around fighting or combat
- should not contain robots
- should look good, with smooth animation rather than choppy stuff
- should treat women like human beings with dignity, equity, and rich inner lives and should ideally have female characters that are not merely love interests for male characters
- should engage with human, social, and political themes and preferably in a real rather than fantasy world
- should be targeted to adults
- character's eyes should be appropriately sized for their head
- if it has a theme song, the theme song should not overly earnest desperate generic Japanese pop
- should not be described as anyone ever as "badass"

- should not contain a young female character who is rude and abusive to everyone played for laughs
- should not contain a young female character that makes shrill, high pitched noises as a stand-in for actually expressing themselves with words
- should not contain soft focus shots where characters gaze longingly into each other's eyes
- should not contain that dumb blushing reaction where there's a sweat drop and the person screws up their eyes
- should not contain uguu or waifu or whatever other babble people use to express how they want to surround themselves with shrill excitable cute girls
- should not have extended details about how a male character is a pervert

- should be available legally for a reasonable price in North America, preferably dubbed. If it's subbed, the subtitles should be professional and localized, not merely translated

I've asked this before and got a few solid recommendations that I have enjoyed, but in almost every case people remind me that I'm really rubbing up major tropes and approaches used in Anime.

Edit: for example, without knowing anything about the shows, the summaries in the Anime of the Year 2014 results thread exclude most of those shows that made the cut. Not all, mind you.
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Welcome to the NHK is available on Netflix. It is about a man working through his social anxiety and focuses on the NEET problem in Japan.
 
About a decade ago when I first discovered fansubs I watched so much anime it's not even funny. Every single new show that came out in Japan I at least tried and most I watched even if I didn't like them. I've seen some really obscure stuff from ca. 2002-2003 seasons. It took me all of about 9-12 months before the entire medium completely died to me. I realized all the shows I was watching followed the same 5-10 formulas, the animation was ass and the character designs were getting more and more fanservicy and gross. I think anime storytelling is stilted and awkward even at its most "mature." I've tried watching a couple of highly regarded new shows that turned out to be 99% fanservice and smut.

That said, there are still some anime that I regard highly. A few off the top of my head that I'd recommend even to people that don't like anime: GTO, Cowboy Bebop, Azumanga Daioh. There is probably some stuff out there now that's not a complete travesty (some anime nerd I know keeps trying to get me to watch shit like Jojo's and Space Dandy), but barely any of it gets properly localized (not just translated) to English and I just don't have time to dedicate my full attention to what I consider a childish endeavor, which subs kind of demand. There are simply too many things I'd rather do with my free time.

I personally am a guilty of jumping on the anime hatewagon, but as someone who spent a good portion of his life overexposing himself to it, I feel like I at least have a grounds to voice displeasure without coming off as a mindless hater. I feel the same way about a lot of Japanese video games (in particular JRPGs). They've just stagnated to the point where I don't find them worth my time anymore where as SNES>PSX era I spent probably hundreds of hours playing thru games that today I couldn't even fathom turning on.

edit: as a semi-related aside, if you post on GAF and you have an anime avatar, just know that I'm judging you. It's probably a little mean spirited, but I can't really help myself, I probably think you're a bad person before I even read anything you have to say.
 
LiQuid! said:
That said, there are still some anime that I regard highly. A few off the top of my head that I'd recommend even to people that don't like anime: GTO, Cowboy Bebop, Azumanga Daioh. There is probably some stuff out there now that's not a complete travesty (some anime nerd I know keeps trying to get me to watch shit like Jojo's and Space Dandy), but barely any of it gets properly localized (not just translated) to English and I just don't have time to dedicate my full attention to what I consider a childish endeavor, which subs kind of demand. There are simply too many things I'd rather do with my free time.
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Azumanga Daioh, now there's like, the only "girls doing stuff in high-school show" that I've ever actually liked. I haven't seen it in years, so I should revisit it, but I remember thinking that I really didn't like more modern stuff like K-On in comparison to it
 
LiQuid! said:
About a decade ago when I first discovered fansubs I watched so much anime it's not even funny. Every single new show that came out in Japan I at least tried and most I watched even if I didn't like them. I've seen some really obscure stuff from ca. 2002-2003 seasons. It took me all of about 9-12 months before the entire medium completely died to me. I realized all the shows I was watching followed the same 5-10 formulas, the animation was ass and the character designs were getting more and more fanservicy and gross. I think anime storytelling is stilted and awkward even at its most "mature." I've tried watching a couple of highly regarded new shows that turned out to be 99% fanservice and smut.

That said, there are still some anime that I regard highly. A few off the top of my head that I'd recommend even to people that don't like anime: GTO, Cowboy Bebop, Azumanga Daioh. There is probably some stuff out there now that's not a complete travesty (some anime nerd I know keeps trying to get me to watch shit like Jojo's and Space Dandy), but barely any of it gets properly localized (not just translated) to English and I just don't have time to dedicate my full attention to what I consider a childish endeavor, which subs kind of demand. There are simply too many things I'd rather do with my free time.

I personally am a guilty of jumping on the anime hatewagon, but as someone who spent a good portion of his life overexposing himself to it, I feel like I at least have a grounds to voice displeasure without coming off as a mindless hater. I feel the same way about a lot of Japanese video games (in particular JRPGs). They've just stagnated to the point where I don't find them worth my time anymore where as SNES>PSX era I spent probably hundreds of hours playing thru games that today I couldn't even fathom turning on.

edit: as a semi-related aside, if you post on GAF and you have an anime avatar, just know that I'm judging you. It's probably a little mean spirited, but I can't really help myself, I probably think you're a bad person before I even read anything you have to say.
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Its ok if you are judging and persecuting me. I love you all anyway.
 
The Technomancer said:
Azumanga Daioh, now there's like, the only "girls doing stuff in high-school show" that I've ever actually liked. I haven't seen it in years, so I should revisit it, but I remember thinking that I really didn't like more modern stuff like K-On in comparison to it
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One of the things I like the most about it is that unlike a lot of shows that pander towards pervy creeps, Azumanga kind of turns a mirror on that kind of behavior with the creepy PE teacher. New shows that try to tackle that same kind of irreverent, high school girl genre usually do so completely aware that they're selling DVD's to perverts.
 
cajunator said:
Its ok if you are judging and persecuting me. I love you all anyway.
Click to expand...

That's a nice thought. Don't let me prevent you from being who you are and liking what you like. I'm the bad person for harboring the prejudice.
 
Metropolis by Rintaro is one of the greatest, most stylish movies ever made, but it misses several criteria. Of course, it's based on the art and story by the father of manga and one of the greatest artists of all time, Osamu Tezuka, so it had to have the big eyes and everything.

I always find it weird that people look down on art styles in the anime medium when those same styles are traced back to WESTERN ANIMATION, namely Betty Boop and Mickey Mouse.

madp said:
This.

Anime fans will swear up and down otherwise, but the truth is that I've never met one who wasn't creepy or severely maladjusted in some way and so it's pretty easy for me to dismiss them. All of the ones I saw in high school and college were usually unattractive/obese and awkward with poor hygiene, never had girlfriends, and were super obnoxious and wanted to shove all of their spiky-haired naruto ninjas and moe waifus down everyone's throats because they thought enjoying something "foreign" somehow made them edgy hipster connoisseurs when they were just circlejerking over cartoons.

It was always obvious to me that it was just a hobby for miserable, socially-stunted losers and emos who used Japanese cartoons as an opiate to distract themselves from being depressed and a shallow pretext for forming friendships with each other because they couldn't navigate normal human interaction otherwise. Everyone stayed as far away from them as possible, especially in college because watching cartoon as an adult (and not just that, but TELEGRAPHING it to other people as LOUDLY as possible) is the biggest red flag imaginable that you're a sexless manchild. There was a guy on the floor or my dorm that we would never invite to parties because he wore nothing but Dragon Ball Z shirts and smelled like he hadn't showered in a month and we all laughed at him behind his back over it.

With all the articles I've read on GAF about how Japanese anime and video games are catering to pedophiles and how anime fans have waifus and watch "moe girls" shit, I can't help but think that anime fans here are either in deep denial about their deviancy or straight-up lying about not jerking it to underage girls when they all have avatars of little girls. Just like every anime fan I've seen IRL they wear their "I watch shows about fucking cartoon children" badge on their sleeve but don't want to be called out on it. The kneejerk defensiveness from fans you see in every thread that exposes the depraved reality of anime is a dead giveaway.

It's creepy as fuck and if you have anime avatar, I'll ignore anything you type on your cum-encrusted keyboards because it's an admission that you don't actually know anything about real life and there's a good chance that you're a pedophile. You shouldn't be on NeoGAF, you should be in prison for CP. I'm glad that the GAF community has fostered an environment that promotes the marginalization and dismissal of fans of anime because they've earned it.
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Oh you.
 
Stumpokapow said:
Please do. Here are my requirements:

- if it is a series, that it is short with no filler
- should not be built around fighting or combat
- should not contain robots
- should look good, with smooth animation rather than choppy stuff
- should treat women like human beings with dignity, equity, and rich inner lives and should ideally have female characters that are not merely love interests for male characters
- should engage with human, social, and political themes and preferably in a real rather than fantasy world
- should be targeted to adults
- character's eyes should be appropriately sized for their head
- if it has a theme song, the theme song should not overly earnest desperate generic Japanese pop
- should not be described as anyone ever as "badass"

- should not contain a young female character who is rude and abusive to everyone played for laughs
- should not contain a young female character that makes shrill, high pitched noises as a stand-in for actually expressing themselves with words
- should not contain soft focus shots where characters gaze longingly into each other's eyes
- should not contain that dumb blushing reaction where there's a sweat drop and the person screws up their eyes
- should not contain uguu or waifu or whatever other babble people use to express how they want to surround themselves with shrill excitable cute girls
- should not have extended details about how a male character is a pervert

- should be available legally for a reasonable price in North America, preferably dubbed. If it's subbed, the subtitles should be professional and localized, not merely translated

I've asked this before and got a few solid recommendations that I have enjoyed, but in almost every case people remind me that I'm really rubbing up major tropes and approaches used in Anime.

Edit: for example, without knowing anything about the shows, the summaries in the Anime of the Year 2014 results thread exclude most of those shows that made the cut. Not all, mind you.
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Does Space Brothers count? (Don't know whether it has been licensed in the US)
It's not really targeted to adults only and I think a lot of kids like it but I always had the feeling that it can be enjoyed by people of all ages.
 
Zhao_Yun said:
Does Space Brothers count? (Don't know whether it has been licensed in the US)
It's not really targeted to adults only and I think a lot of kids like it but I always had the feeling that it can be enjoyed by people of all ages.
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While it did air in a kid's timeslot, it's actually an adaptation of a seinen (aimed at adult males) manga.

However, it's also a 100+ episode show, filled with corner-cutting animation, has some filler and poor pacing at points, and a few sweat drops here and there.

It's a shame since the story itself is exactly what Stump is asking for. Music is phenomenal as well.
 
Anime has been losing popularity since Toonami was on after school I would say, it'll go niche again, more so than it is now.

Also, I wouldn't use Giantbomb as a barometer doe anything personally. Jeff hates a lot..
 
Haly said:
Oh, I've heard of this stigma before. It makes sense, since anime fans can be really annoying.
Click to expand...

I imagine that plays into the stigma (Unskilled and overzealous kids fresh out of high school imitating whatever they saw on Toonami, and wasting some admissions counselor's time with their "portfolio") ...I also imagine that it may have something to do with the fact that the instructors have a bias for western techniques, visuals, and narrative elements.
Golden age WB, Disney, and UPA shorts/films were probably the only cartoons that they were exposed to on a large scale; I imagine that Japanese-specific visual tropes (like this and this), and the numerous limited animation techniques that are often used in tv-budget anime is quite off-putting to them

Haly said:
But... I think anime is a treasure trove of complex and skillful animation, as long as you know where to look for it. There are sites like Sakugabooru that collect only the best nuggets of animation from various shows, which could be a good resource for someone in your position, akin to Ghibli's works.
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Most definitely; there are lot of great pieces of Japanese work that western animators can learn from (that's one of the reasons why we study stuff like Akira and Howl's Moving Castle in school) and vice versa. Thanks for the link btw!

Crossing Eden said:
Are you a clone of me? Because that's exactly how I feel. Seriously. There's just so many little things I don't get about Japanese animation sometimes. Like overly detailed character designs that are harder to animate which leads to very stiff movement during conversations unless the show has a high budget or the lack of lip sync. It's baffling. The lack of lip sync seriously kills me. I remember reading that they actually animate the show first and then dub over it. Which is quite literally the opposite of what we do in the west. Ofc i'm not talking about the higher budget ones,( the majority of which still don't have lip sync), like attack on titan which has some very fluid action scenes and even some good conversation scenes. Plus since i'm an adult, I seriously don't find the adolescent coming of age story relatable anymore, and I get quite grossed out from the ridiculous fanservice. Can still read some manga though, very few, currently invested in A Silent Voice. Very good, very human personalities instead of the same old anime archetypes and absolutely zero fanservice. I am so fed up with the anime archetypes, and the speeches, and the constant inner monologues and exposition.
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Yeah, I'm not gonna lie...some Japanese-specific storytelling techniques are a bit dumb from both an animation, and cinematography perspective (*Zooms in on character as he/she/them/it is having some sort of drawn out inner monologue about whether or not they should kiss/attack/talk to their girlfriend/villain/love interest*)

Edit: Sometimes I feel like a lot of tv-budget anime is stuck between super limited 80s/70s Hanna-Barbera cartoons (like Scooby Doo or He-Man), and UPA.
 
I don't know if it's necessarily a mainstream hatred of anime, but moreso a growing disdain on the internet. As others have said before, anime doesn't seem as big as it used to be anymore.

Also, you need to remember that the GB crew is a pretty jaded group, or at least Jeff is. It's not surprising that he hates anime.

Vio-Lence said:
When was anime mainstream?
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You serious? Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Naruto, Bleach? Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh and Digimon? And to a lesser extent, Yu Yu Hakasho, Gundam, Zoids, Inyuasha, etc. Anime was huge in the late 90s/early 2000s. So much so that even a lot of western cartoons started adopting aspects from anime (the early 2000s TMNT reboot, Power Puff Girls, Teen Titans, Code Lyoko, etc.)

I guess if you were already well into adulthood back then you might have not noticed, but if you were a kid, teenager, or even in your early 20s you probably would have. I mean I didn't really watch much of it outside of the stuff they would show on Toonami (originally, not this nu-Toonami) or Cartoon Network, but I still recognized the popularity some of the shows I didn't care about had.
 
Mass Effect said:
You serious? Dragon Ball Z, One Piece, Naruto, Bleach? Pokemon, Yu-Gi-Oh and Digimon? And to a lesser extent, Yu Yu Hakasho, Gundam, Zoids, Inyuasha, etc. Anime was huge in the late 90s/early 2000s. So much so that even a lot of western cartoons started adopting aspects from anime (the late 90s TMNT reboot, Power Puff Girls, Teen Titans, Code Lyoko, etc.)
Click to expand...

If I had to date it I'd say anime was fairly, if briefly mainstream from 1998-2002. It then enjoyed a lower, but stable popularity until ~2005; I like to say May 21st, when Adult Swim aired Metropolis then changed their schedule. A lot of the popular shows mentioned above were rotated out around that time.
 
madp said:
This.

Anime fans will swear up and down otherwise, but the truth is that I've never met one who wasn't creepy or severely maladjusted in some way and so it's pretty easy for me to dismiss them. All of the ones I saw in high school and college were usually unattractive/obese and awkward with poor hygiene, never had girlfriends, and were super obnoxious and wanted to shove all of their spiky-haired naruto ninjas and moe waifus down everyone's throats because they thought enjoying something "foreign" somehow made them edgy hipster connoisseurs when they were just circlejerking over cartoons.

It was always obvious to me that it was just a hobby for miserable, socially-stunted losers and emos who used Japanese cartoons as an opiate to distract themselves from being depressed and a shallow pretext for forming friendships with each other because they couldn't navigate normal human interaction otherwise. Everyone stayed as far away from them as possible, especially in college because watching cartoon as an adult (and not just that, but TELEGRAPHING it to other people as LOUDLY as possible) is the biggest red flag imaginable that you're a sexless manchild. There was a guy on the floor or my dorm that we would never invite to parties because he wore nothing but Dragon Ball Z shirts and smelled like he hadn't showered in a month and we all laughed at him behind his back over it.

With all the articles I've read on GAF about how Japanese anime and video games are catering to pedophiles and how anime fans have waifus and watch "moe girls" shit, I can't help but think that anime fans here are either in deep denial about their deviancy or straight-up lying about not jerking it to underage girls when they all have avatars of little girls. Just like every anime fan I've seen IRL they wear their "I watch shows about fucking cartoon children" badge on their sleeve but don't want to be called out on it. The kneejerk defensiveness from fans you see in every thread that exposes the depraved reality of anime is a dead giveaway.

It's creepy as fuck and if you have anime avatar, I'll ignore anything you type on your cum-encrusted keyboards because it's an admission that you don't actually know anything about real life and there's a good chance that you're a pedophile. You shouldn't be on NeoGAF, you should be in prison for CP. I'm glad that the GAF community has fostered an environment that promotes the marginalization and dismissal of fans of anime because they've earned it.
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Woah, just calm down bud. It'll be alright.

Now I mean, I'm certainly no social dynamo, but I can at least interact with other human beings. Hell I even have a pretty decent number of close friends who are regular ass people (some of which who watch anime themselves). Then again, I have really only been watching anime for about two years now, and I don't exactly wear the fact that I do on my sleeve. Maybe all the rest will come after a few more years though?
 
Moral Panic said:
GITS


Spice and Wolf


SRSLY?
Click to expand...

It was asked :
A truly positive female character that is equal to males with no sexist stereotypes is practically non-existent in Anime
Click to expand...
I stand by what i've said.

First the major in GITS is more respected by her crew , and that's not because she is a woman but because of her own capabilities.None of the episodes put her in a purely sexist situation except of "femme fatale" and that's because she is willingly using her charm to get what she wants.

Second , your picture of horo in spice and wolf doesn't represent the anime. This is 2 scenes ( their meeting + rescue ) in 2 seasons + oavs. Not to mention that this doesn't even happens in the 17 volumes afterwards. There are no sexist representation of horo in the whole franchise.Not to mention that she is more knowledgeable and more intelligent than 99.9% of the cast.. she stand on her own countless times in a positive way. in short she is a great character that doesn't follow sexist tropes commonly present in anime

Maybe you should just watch those séries instead of questionning my judgement.
 
Stumpokapow said:
Please do. Here are my requirements:

- if it is a series, that it is short with no filler
- should not be built around fighting or combat
- should not contain robots
- should look good, with smooth animation rather than choppy stuff
- should treat women like human beings with dignity, equity, and rich inner lives and should ideally have female characters that are not merely love interests for male characters
- should engage with human, social, and political themes and preferably in a real rather than fantasy world
- should be targeted to adults
- character's eyes should be appropriately sized for their head
- if it has a theme song, the theme song should not overly earnest desperate generic Japanese pop
- should not be described as anyone ever as "badass"

- should not contain a young female character who is rude and abusive to everyone played for laughs
- should not contain a young female character that makes shrill, high pitched noises as a stand-in for actually expressing themselves with words
- should not contain soft focus shots where characters gaze longingly into each other's eyes
- should not contain that dumb blushing reaction where there's a sweat drop and the person screws up their eyes
- should not contain uguu or waifu or whatever other babble people use to express how they want to surround themselves with shrill excitable cute girls
- should not have extended details about how a male character is a pervert

- should be available legally for a reasonable price in North America, preferably dubbed. If it's subbed, the subtitles should be professional and localized, not merely translated

I've asked this before and got a few solid recommendations that I have enjoyed, but in almost every case people remind me that I'm really rubbing up major tropes and approaches used in Anime.

Edit: for example, without knowing anything about the shows, the summaries in the Anime of the Year 2014 results thread exclude most of those shows that made the cut. Not all, mind you.
Click to expand...

Seriously , just watch BUNNY DROP

and only watch the anime !
It fits all of your criteria !
 
madp said:
It's creepy as fuck and if you have anime avatar, I'll ignore anything you type on your cum-encrusted keyboards because it's an admission that you don't actually know anything about real life and there's a good chance that you're a pedophile. You shouldn't be on NeoGAF, you should be in prison for CP. I'm glad that the GAF community has fostered an environment that promotes the marginalization and dismissal of fans of anime because they've earned it.
Click to expand...

oh my fuck

edit: oh it's a troll post :( disappointing
 
I'm posting from my prison cell

sure, my keyboard was nasty earlier but the guard earlier made me clean it up so I'm good.
 
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