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[alstein]

We have equal rights...

We're just extremely disadvantaged for socioeconomic reason. There's a difference. Same for women.

The only difference between racism and sexism is that people can justify sexism a lot better than they can justify racism. I'm a "WoC" so I guess I can say, legally I can do whatever I want but because of cultural perceptions I have to be wary of a lot of subtle discriminatory situations that are ingrained in our culture.

Yes, equal rights on the books, but the rights aren't applied equally. Just ask the thousands who are harassed for driving while back, in addition to other unequal applications.

The socioeconomic aspect is correlated with race. In that, racism is one of the things that exacerbates the socioeconomic aspects, as the main strategy for plutocrats in America is to drive a wedge in the populists by using racial language.

 

[EmCeeGramr]

DID YOU KNOW GAMING™: There are threads in OT (and you can make one if you wish!) for discussing racial inequality in the United States or Ferguson

 

[unbias]

I am not accusing you of being evil or anything like that, im just saying that the position Boogie (and you a bit) is taking is based on ignorance and maybe a bit of self-defense. People finding something problematic about your quote arent calling you racist or twisting your words, they are pointing out that you dont see fully informed on the issue and thats good, you cant know everything about everything.

Sorry if I seemed abrasive with my first response. Also, there are still laws that target black people.

Ya...at this point if you think I'm talking about the same thing as boogie, there is no discussion with you, you just want to fight. I thought comparing black struggles to this was inappropriate and it bothered me. Clearly I was wrong.

 

[JDSN]

Emcee, sorry for bringing up the damn quote, next time ill remind myself of the dangers of concern trolling. I removed it.

 

[zeldablue]

You don't seem to. Calling fixing racial discrimination "cut and dry" is so far off base it's a joke.



I'm sure. In either case, not as much privilege as y'all deserve. In the best world, nobody has to consider their "race" or their "gender" before acting.

My family doesn't believe in using race or gender as an excuse. At the end of the day, everyone just has to do their best and set a better example. That's the motto I've been going by, but I realize that's not exactly how things work.

Mike Brown would be a lot better if he hadn't stereotypically robbed a store.
Likewise Zoe Quinn would be a lot better if she hadn't stereotypically 'slept around.'

I sadly shake my head. U__U Racism and sexism is bad enough. Fueling the racists and sexists is just maddening for me. It justifies their irrational hatred.

Yes, equal rights on the books, but the rights aren't applied equally. Just ask the thousands who are harassed for driving while back, in addition to other unequal applications.

The socioeconomic aspect is correlated with race. In that, racism is one of the things that exacerbates the socioeconomic aspects, as the main strategy for plutocrats in America is to drive a wedge in the populists by using racial language.

There's a good chance I don't know what the word "socioeconomic" means, but I used it anyways to feel smart. >___>

 

[GillianSeed79]

I am however associated with the tens of thousands of other gamers involved in the movement who likewise have no ideas about nor desires towards zoe quinn, or the handful of people who harass her.

I'll continue to use #gamergate to communicate with those people because its the only way that I have to do so at this time...

I reject the idea that using that hashtag somehow instantly victimizes someone or instantly harasses them. If I see substantial proof that my readers are being harmed by my tweets using that hashtag then I'll be glad to readjust but until then, its the only way to get across that message to those people.

I have also not only checked out zoe's twitter but tweeted her my most sincere regrets and apologies. She seems to be ok with me, and my use of the hashtag. I hope you can find it in your heart to agree with her on that.

provide me an easier way to communicate with the tens of thousands of riled up moderates via twitter without using the #gamergate hashtag and I'll consider doing that instead.

You are smarter and better than this boogie. I guess it's because you of all people should understand the importance of and grace associated with empathy that I feel not mad or upset but, simply put, disappointed by your stance and thoughts on this. By all means, your heart is in the right place but what I can best describe as willful ignorance, in my opinion, has clouded your judgment.

For starters, you don't need a hashtag to communicate with "moderates." You of all people should know you have a voice and have influence. People, especially young people, listen to youYou don't need a hashtag or Twitter to communicate with people. You already have an audience. If anything you should be above picking sides like that. I like you precisely because you seem to be a down to earth guy with a good message. While I'm sure that there are moderates within gamergate, associating yourself with the hashtag and some of its dubious foundations poisons your opinion for me. And, yes, using that hashtag colors any opinion you might have on the issue.

I for one am a strong proponent of game journalism ethics, reform and transparency, but I don't see what has been going for the last two weeks as anything substantially related to that.

For me these entire past three weeks or so have been about the entire gaming community being asked or motivated to take a few moments and perform some self introspection in light of some really shitty behavior and, instead, of coming to the conclusion that maybe we should no longer sit by and be silent or provide cover for the more shitty elements of the community, there is a group of gamers who hijacked the discussion and responded with a disproportionate response to a real issue regarding inclusiveness. Instead of being outraged and deciding that maybe we should do better within our own community, for me, it seems like gamers have rallied around one negatively toned op-ed piece calling out a subset of the community and viewed it as a crusade against them ala Jack Thompson or something.

Gamergate didn't happen in a vaccum. Your tacid approval to me is akin to, say, a Republican who has legitimate beliefs regarding government spending standing silent next to a member of the Tea Party holding a poster decrying Obama as a socialist who wants to send grandma before a death panel.

Just to me, and I'm a fan of your stuff, but to me it seems like you are siding with the bullies on this one, the same ones who tormented you and us as a kid, not supporting some righteous effort to protect gamers' good names. Just my two cents.

 

[Galactic Fork]

Likewise Zoe Quinn would be a lot better if she hadn't stereotypically 'slept around.'

I sadly shake my head. U__U Racism and sexism is bad enough. Fueling the racists and sexists is just maddening for me. It justifies their irrational hatred.

OK, time out. So Zoe Quinn having consensual sex with somebody is now "fueling irrational hatred"?

 

[zeldablue]

OK, time out. So Zoe Quinn having consensual sex with somebody is now "fueling irrational hatred"?

There are people in this world, right now, who feel as though a woman being unfaithful is the biggest sin she can commit. (This belief is not exclusive to men or women, we both notoriously "slut shame" without doing the same to guys.) "Evil" women are distinctly shown as temptresses, sexual spies, succubi and manipulators through sex or romantic appeal.

So yes. o___o

On the flipside, a black man doing anything remotely "thug-ish", is also the biggest sin he could commit.

 

[unbias]

OK, time out. So Zoe Quinn having consensual sex with somebody is now "fueling irrational hatred"?

She was highlighting the stereotypes... As in they are a problem. As in there is a problem with how Black people and women are viewed, highlighting racism on 1 end and sexism in another.

 

[Talon]

Thanks for posting, this is easily the best summary of #GamerGate and its root causes I've seen yet. We've been sorely lacking in one that addresses the subtext of the whole fight. I will be linking to this in future when people ask what this whole thing is about.

Quin's post earlier in the thread more or less sums up how I feel about this whole affair. It's perfectly fine to be leery of games journalism and to say that you think some changes need to be made. It's not helpful to hitch that cause to this particular wagon. Wait a month for all this shit to die down and maybe try again then.

Eh, considering the explicit intellectual dishonesty around the "journalism ethics" wagon, I have a few bones to pick with this summary. Listing the sexism/hate speech and the ethics as items 1 and 2 creates an implicit equivalency.

Especially considering those IRC logs.

 

[Galactic Fork]

There are people in this world, right now, who feel as though a woman being unfaithful is the biggest sin she can commit.

So yes. o___o

That was framed with "At the end of the day, everyone just has to do their best and set a better example."
So don't you think that trying to change things so a woman's sexlife doesn't justify poor treatment would be better than saying, "ladies better set a better example or else people will threaten and try to ruin your life?"

wasn't the guy it was said she was unfaithful with married?

Edit: I very much think that treating people that "feel as though a woman being unfaithful is the biggest sin she can commit" as if they are some sort of natural disaster we have to work our lives around and if we happen to find ourselves caught in their wake, well, we just didn't set a good enough example.

 

[endless dave]

Some super gross victim blaming going on here people. Good god.

I don't see why people should be beholden to bigots' worldview lest they get their lives ruined/ended. You don't throw your hands up and say "well that's how it is I guess. They should know better than to provoke these people." You make sure the bigots' views are eradicated

 

[zeldablue]

That was framed with "At the end of the day, everyone just has to do their best and set a better example."
So don't you think that trying to change things so a woman's sexlife doesn't justify poor treatment would be better than saying, "ladies better set a better example or else people will threaten and try to ruin your life?"

That would be slut shaming...

But ehh, yeah kind of. If you're around a racist environment, you shouldn't provoke their racism. If you're in a sexist environment, don't provoke their sexism. People are always nice until you strike that nerve.

Actually, now that you bring it up. It's a good thing she did this, so that she could show how sexist these people are.

In psychology, there's this thing called "shadow." And finding your shadow is as easy as figuring out what makes you the angriest. Before Anita even did anything everyone was fuming with anger. People were going crazy before she even said a word. This really shows where our collective "shadow" is placed. We have a very deep internalized hatred for women. It is only ever triggered when a women doesn't "know her place."

If you're a good girl, nothing bad will ever happen, and everyone will love you. But feminism purposefully goes out of the socially acceptable bounds of how men want to see women. This is extremely scary for many people...and they react with irrational fits of repeated anger.

So when people say they love women...yes you do! You very much love women. But if a woman falls out of the social bounds that men/society has placed her in...she needs to be stoned to death. This whole fiasco has unleashed the gaming culture's "shadow" pretty much.

People are acting like crazy misogynistic psychos from the 50's, all while saying they aren't sexist. This whole situation is hitting the lower, deeply internalized, well hidden parts of our minds...and our culture.

We need a sociologist to come in and help us out, I think.

I can't wait to see what happens next! Will these people become more unwillingly sexist, or will they actually see the deeper part of their nature?

Some super gross victim blaming going on here people. Good god.

I don't see why people should be beholden to bigots' worldview lest they get their lives ruined/ended. You don't throw your hands up and say "well that's how it is I guess. They should know better than to provoke these people." You make sure the bigots' views are eradicated

...
But it's so scaaary. ;___:

I always thought about the civil rights movement in the 60s. There were so many African Americans who wanted no part in it because of the suffering it would lead to for their family and friends. If I was realistically, in that situation, I would have hid in the corner as well.

Cowardice or humility/conformity?

 

[Galactic Fork]

That would be slut shaming...

Yeah, that's what I thought you were going with when you said "I sadly shake my head. U__U Racism and sexism is bad enough. Fueling the racists and sexists is just maddening for me. It justifies their irrational hatred."

But ehh, yeah kind of. If you're around a racist environment, you shouldn't provoke their racism. If you're in a sexist environment, don't provoke their sexism.

Actually, now that you bring it up. It's a good thing she did this, so that she could show how sexist these people are.

In psychology, there's this thing called "shadow." And finding your shadow is as easy as figuring out what makes you the angriest. Before Anita even did anything everyone was fuming with anger. People were going crazy before she even said a word. This really shows where our collective "shadow" is placed. We have a very deep internalized hatred for women. It is only ever triggered when a women doesn't "know her place."

If you're a good girl, nothing bad will ever happen, and everyone will love you. But feminism purposefully goes out of the socially acceptable bounds of how men want to see women. This is extremely scary for many people...and they react with anger.

So when people say they love women...yes you do! You very much love women. But if a woman falls out of the social bounds that men placed her in...she needs to be stoned to death. This whole fiasco has unleashed the gaming culture's "shadow" pretty much.

People are acting like crazy misogynistic psychos from the 50's, all while saying they aren't sexist. This whole situation is hitting the lower, deeply internalized, well hidden parts of our minds.

I can't wait to see what happens next! Will these people become more unwillingly sexist, or will they actually see the deeper part of their nature?

I agree with pretty much everything starting at "In psychology." I just don't think she "did this" in any meaningful way that deserves blame or shame. I'm glad a bunch of misogynists lost their shit over something so publicly that others get to see what's going on. But it's sad she has to go through it.

 

[zeldablue]

Yeah, that's what I thought you were going with when you said "I sadly shake my head. U__U Racism and sexism is bad enough. Fueling the racists and sexists is just maddening for me. It justifies their irrational hatred."



I agree with pretty much everything starting at "In psychology." I just don't think she "did this" in any meaningful that deserves blame or shame. I'm glad a bunch of misogynists lost their shit over something so publicly that others get to see what's going on. But it's sad she has to go through it.

Yes.

Thanks for calling out my apathy/prejudice. I should really be better than that. Also, I had a big smile on my face when I saw all the documentation she has for the FBI. Holy moley.

 

[Nephrahim]

The FBI's not going to get involved in some online spat based on a few IRC logs. If they did they'd be doing nothing bug.

 

[Odrion]

At least there seems to be enough evidence to put a restraining order on the ex.

 

[zeldablue]

The FBI's not going to get involved in some online spat based on a few IRC logs. If they did they'd be doing nothing bug.

Ah.

But weren't there a lot of people who had their personal information tampered with? Also threats are illegal if the victim has reason to believe they are in actual danger. (pictures of their home, phone calls etc)

A lot of people could be in trouble. I'd be happy to see a few criminals get fined or something.

 

[jetsetrez]

Anyone who thinks this event is anything less than heinous bullshit isn't moderate. That's the point. They're part of the problem.

This sentiment is why things continue to escalate. The way you are speaking is the problem. Complex issues require shades of gray. Speaking in absolutes, without defining exactly what you're referencing and to whom you are speaking, helps no one. Even if you think you are speaking to a specific group, referencing a specific problem, you are allowing your position to be misunderstood making anyone who has concerns about any related aspect of this event feel that you are judging them with the same brush, emboldening whatever position they hold, and making any attempts for rational discourse just that much harder to attain.

 

[Nephrahim]

Ah.

But weren't there a lot of people who had their personal information tampered with? Also threats are illegal if the victim has reason to believe they are in actual danger. (pictures of their home, phone calls etc)

A lot of people could be in trouble. I'd be happy to see a few criminals get fined or something.

The thing is, saying you hacked something in an IRC isn't proof. For the FBI to really prosecute these people, they need real evidence, and if that evidence could be gathered by sitting in an IRC chat... well, there'd be less of them. And that's even working under the assumption that they did, in fact, hack anything, which I find unlikely since actual black-hat hackers tend to be much more circumspect for obvious reasons.

Yeah, something to do with the EX is possible, but would likely involve a civil case and is obviously completely Zoe and his personal business and not in the scope of this thread.

 

[scoobidoo112]

The FBI's not going to get involved in some online spat based on a few IRC logs. If they did they'd be doing nothing bug.

They probably won't. I can perhaps see them helping Anita Sarkeesian, but she's pretty much ruined any kind of investigation that could take place by, instead of keeping quiet and contacting the authorities, going to social media and showing the whole world screenshots of her death threats, which is the very last thing you want to do when you get death threats. I understand that she did that because it helps her cause and her videos and she wanted people to understand what she was going through, but it isn't smart.

If her death threats are legit though (I've heard some doubts surrounding the screenshots) then I do hope the FBI gets involved and finds whoever threatened her, if that is still possible.

 

[zeldablue]

The thing is, saying you hacked something in an IRC isn't proof. For the FBI to really prosecute these people, they need real evidence, and if that evidence could be gathered by sitting in an IRC chat... well, there'd be less of them. And that's even working under the assumption that they did, in fact, hack anything, which I find unlikely since actual black-hat hackers tend to be much more circumspect for obvious reasons.

Yeah, something to do with the EX is possible, but would likely involve a civil case and is obviously completely Zoe and his personal business and not in the scope of this thread.

Okay, yeah.

Well, I guess this might at least bring the discussion back to the underlying problem of gynophobia/misogyny.

 

[Barkley's Justice]

If you don't go online it's like nothing's even happening.

 

[disastermouse]

You are smarter and better than this boogie. I guess it's because you of all people should understand the importance of and grace associated with empathy that I feel not mad or upset but, simply put, disappointed by your stance and thoughts on this. By all means, your heart is in the right place but what I can best describe as willful ignorance, in my opinion, has clouded your judgment.

For starters, you don't need a hashtag to communicate with "moderates." You of all people should know you have a voice and have influence. People, especially young people, listen to youYou don't need a hashtag or Twitter to communicate with people. You already have an audience. If anything you should be above picking sides like that. I like you precisely because you seem to be a down to earth guy with a good message. While I'm sure that there are moderates within gamergate, associating yourself with the hashtag and some of its dubious foundations poisons your opinion for me. And, yes, using that hashtag colors any opinion you might have on the issue.

I for one am a strong proponent of game journalism ethics, reform and transparency, but I don't see what has been going for the last two weeks as anything substantially related to that.

For me these entire past three weeks or so have been about the entire gaming community being asked or motivated to take a few moments and perform some self introspection in light of some really shitty behavior and, instead, of coming to the conclusion that maybe we should no longer sit by and be silent or provide cover for the more shitty elements of the community, there is a group of gamers who hijacked the discussion and responded with a disproportionate response to a real issue regarding inclusiveness. Instead of being outraged and deciding that maybe we should do better within our own community, for me, it seems like gamers have rallied around one negatively toned op-ed piece calling out a subset of the community and viewed it as a crusade against them ala Jack Thompson or something.

Gamergate didn't happen in a vaccum. Your tacid approval to me is akin to, say, a Republican who has legitimate beliefs regarding government spending standing silent next to a member of the Tea Party holding a poster decrying Obama as a socialist who wants to send grandma before a death panel.

Just to me, and I'm a fan of your stuff, but to me it seems like you are siding with the bullies on this one, the same ones who tormented you and us as a kid, not supporting some righteous effort to protect gamers' good names. Just my two cents.

So now it's not just 'gamers' who are dead, but also a hashtag.

Why does one side of this debate keep trying to kill words?

 

[jgminto]

done.

Why not just...not use and discourage the use of #gamergate? It would still allow you to talk about whatever issues you have with the games media without boosting people using it to abuse women. I think I saw some people were using #gameethics iirc? Why not use that instead?

The FBI's not going to get involved in some online spat based on a few IRC logs. If they did they'd be doing nothing bug.

I'm pretty sure there have been some serious crimes committed regarding the hacking and leaking of information. The abuse is pretty horrible/probably illegal too but law enforcement seems really poor when it comes to online abuse.

 

[Noaloha]

The thing is, saying you hacked something in an IRC isn't proof. For the FBI to really prosecute these people, they need real evidence, and if that evidence could be gathered by sitting in an IRC chat... well, there'd be less of them.

Let's assume that Zoë is aware of this also. Taking her tweets at face value, she does suggest that she still has the genuinely incriminating stuff in her back pocket. (Bottom posted first.)

 

[scoobidoo112]

Let's assume that Zoe is aware of this also. Taking her tweets at face value, she does suggest that she still has the genuinely incriminating stuff in her back pocket. (Bottom posted first.)

If that were the case and she was legitimately in contact with the FBI, they would've told her to shut up and let them do their investigation, not go on social media and brag about how much damning evidence she has that she is "going to" present to the FBI.

Am I the only one that understands that the FBI does not want you publicly talking/bragging about things you want their help with?

 

[Kadayi]

I think the most depressing thing that's come out of this whole affair is the realisation that there are an inordinate amount of people across the internet who are pretty much incapable of parsing down a persons or groups thoughts, opinions and behaviours and evaluating them on their individual merit as to right or wrong, worthwhile or worthless versus throwing their lot in with said person/group wholesale and and any acknowledgement as to their faults and failings be damned. The 'can do no wrong' school of thinking is so inherently warped from reality that it's essentially tantamount to hero worship, and that in of itself is hugely problematic.

 

[Eisenherz]

Kamiya is right:

 

[Darkfield]

The Escapist spoke to 4Chan and the independent game developer called Zoe Quinn after she posted several screenshots from an IRC chat channel of her opponents discussing "blackhat" operations.

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...s-Debunking-GamerGate-4Chan-and-Quinn-Respond

 

[jetsetrez]

Why not just...not use and discourage the use of #gamergate? It would still allow you to talk about whatever issues you have with the games media without boosting people using it to abuse women. I think I saw some people were using #gameethics iirc? Why not use that instead?

Whatever hashtag becomes the popular one will become abused. #GamerGate is, or at least at face value, is about voicing opposition to the press rallying against the term gamer. I think Boogie's issues are not so much a percieved corruption or call for ethics in the media, but more against the media coming down on "gamers."

 

[scoobidoo112]

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/new...s-Debunking-GamerGate-4Chan-and-Quinn-Respond

The more I read the less compassion I have for both sides.

I'd love for her to respond and make him donate to Women's Aid. Takes away any doubts surrounding the legitimacy of the death threats and probably garners her a lot of respect as well.

 

[zeldablue]

I think the most depressing thing that's come out of this whole affair is the realisation that there are an inordinate amount of people across the internet who are pretty much incapable of parsing down a persons or groups thoughts, opinions and behaviours and evaluating them on their individual merit as to right or wrong, worthwhile or worthless versus throwing their lot in with said person/group wholesale and and any acknowledgement as to their faults and failings be damned. The 'can do no wrong' school of thinking is so inherently warped from reality that it's essentially tantamount to hero worship, and that in of itself is hugely problematic.

That's human nature...

and the reason for most conflicts.

 

[Nephrahim]

Looking around, it seems like the people who are still using gamergate feel like they're in the right so much that it doesn't matter if there are people who were harassing and hacking Zoe and other people on Twitter, and feel like jumping ship to any other tag is an attempt to change the subject when they feel like "They're winning"

Of course, there's no actual way to tell who's winning or losing, if in fact there is any winning in this whole thing, except that both sides are claiming it's them.

 

[Kadayi]

That's human nature...

and the reason for most conflicts.

I think it's more a resultant of a lot of people not being taught critical thinking as a core skill.

 

[zeldablue]

I think it's more a resultant of a lot of people not being taught critical thinking as a core skill.

Critical thinking is one thing, sure. But I think a better word would be critical reflection. Can't remove the splinter from your brother's eye before taking the branch out of your own eye first...or something like that. :9

 

[boogie2988]

You say that's your goal, but your response is to attack the people who have most put themselves out there for that very goal. A movement supposedly for journalistic integrity that is turning women like Jenn Frank and Mattie Price into the face of corruption in the gaming industry.

Do you see how this can be taken badly?

you guys keep accusing me of 'attacking people'. I'm beginning to believe someone is confusing the definition of that word.

I have absolutely no remote clue how you're arriving that I'm 'attacking' anyone, or have ever done so in my entire life. That implication is absolutely absurd if you actually knew me.

Here's the definition of the word as I understand it.

I reject and refute the idea that simply using a hashtag of #gamergate is "violently assaulting someone"

 

[scoobidoo112]

you guys keep accusing me of 'attacking people'. I'm beginning to believe someone is confusing the definition of that word.

I have absolutely no remote clue how you're arriving that I'm 'attacking' anyone, or have ever done so in my entire life. That implication is absolutely absurd if you actually knew me.

"Not taking a side" is now seen as attacking or approving as well. It doesn't matter how calm, logical and reasonable you are, for some people here and on Twitter, not being on one side is now seen as either attacking that side or approving the other. You're a stand up guy and you haven't said anything you should be ashamed of or not stand by. Using a hashtag to spread a message doesn't make you anything, your message does, and your message is one of equality, tolerance, kindness and acceptance.

 

[boogie2988]

"Not taking a side" is now seen as attacking or approving as well. It doesn't matter how calm, logical and reasonable you are, for some people here and on Twitter, not being on one side is now seen as either attacking that side or approving the other. You're a stand up guy and you haven't said anything you should be ashamed of or not stand by.

those are some incredible logical leaps you're taking there.

So right now because I'm not out in the sand trying to save the people Americans are bombing, i'm actually killing them?

right now since I'm not feeding starving children I'm killing them too?

Right now since I'm not giving you all of my money i'm in fact robbing you?

do you see how far away from basic logic that is?

jesus christ, statements like this make me want to end my life. If this is what the world is coming to I'm not sure I want to be in it.

 

[scoobidoo112]

those are some incredible logical leaps you're taking there.

So right now because I'm not out in the sand trying to save the people Americans are bombing, i'm actually killing them?

right now since I'm not feeding starving children I'm killing them too?

Right now since I'm not giving you all of my money i'm in fact robbing you?

do you see how far away from basic logic that is?

jesus christ, statements like this make me want to end my life. If this is what the world is coming to I'm not sure I want to be in it.

Ehm, I'm supporting you. I'm saying that others make such logical leaps and that you have nothing to be ashamed of. I think you misread what I said.

 

[boogie2988]

Ehm, I'm supporting you. I'm saying that others make such logical leaps and that you have nothing to be ashamed of. I think you misread what I said.

I must have, my apologies.

I appreciate your support. I'm running on about 12 hours of sleep across 3 days, i'm stressed, and I'm not thinking very clearly. Probably need to step away from the internet for a few years to recuperate.

But my point stands, the idea that since I'm not actively thrashing myself over zoe quinn means i'm in fact hurting her directly is absurd to me and if that's the logical steps this industry or this world is taking I sincerely no longer want to participate.

 

[TaroYamada]

I must have, my apologies.

I appreciate your support. I'm running on about 12 hours of sleep across 3 days, i'm stressed, and I'm not thinking very clearly. Probably need to step away from the internet for a few years to recuperate.

But my point stands, the idea that since I'm not actively thrashing myself over zoe quinn means i'm in fact hurting her directly is absurd to me and if that's the logical steps this industry or this world is taking I sincerely no longer want to participate.

Calm yourself Boogie, it's understandable but count to 10. I agree with you too and please don't apologize for what you've been saying, I appreciate your voice and your positivity and constant demonstration that one can be against harassment and also oppose bias in the media, political or otherwise.

 

[Noaloha]

you guys keep accusing me of 'attacking people'. I'm beginning to believe someone is confusing the definition of that word.

I have absolutely no remote clue how you're arriving that I'm 'attacking' anyone, or have ever done so in my entire life. That implication is absolutely absurd if you actually knew me.

I assume (hope!) no one's accusing you of directly attacking anyone, you come across as a genuine and well-intentioned individual without an ounce of malice. The argument, I believe, stems from you - especially as a large voice with a lot of reach - lending momentum to a foul vehicle which has "fag pussies" programmed into its GPS, regardless of passenger. It stems from you using that specific #gg stage to engage with people, when that stage was always set up for a certain performance (The Discredit Zoë, Anita And Extended Cabal Show). #GG is a compromised, ugly stage. It's a structure built on rotten wood. It smells bad. It's caused injuries. It has some serious bad juju. You can give lengthy soliloquies on whether "gamer" is or is not still a culturally relevant descriptor, but in the background there're still dipshits skulking about in Guy Fawkes masks, in the corner is a big round cartoon bomb with a lit fuse and "SJW" written on the side, perched upon the rafters the audience can't help but notice animatronic stuffed vultures eyeing up anyone that looks like they might have enjoyed Tropes Vs Women.

 

[boogie2988]

I assume (hope!) no one's accusing you of directly attacking anyone, you come across as a genuine and well-intentioned individual without an ounce of malice. The argument, I believe, stems from you - especially as a large voice with a lot of reach - lending momentum to a foul vehicle which has "fag pussies" programmed into its GPS, regardless of passenger. It stems from you using that specific #gg stage to engage with people, when that stage was always set up for a certain performance (The Discredit Zoë, Anita And Extended Cabal Show). #GG is a compromised, ugly stage. It's a structure built on rotten wood. It smells bad. It's caused injuries. It has some serious bad juju. You can give lengthy soliloquies on whether "gamer" is or is not still a culturally relevant descriptor, but in the background there're still dipshits skulking about in Guy Fawkes masks, in the corner is a big round cartoon bomb with a lit fuse and "SJW" written on the side, perched upon the rafters the audience can't help but notice animatronic stuffed vultures eyeing up anyone that looks like they might have enjoyed Tropes Vs Women.

I cannot understand nor make a connection how me using #gamergate to say "be nice to everyone while this is going on" is condoning anything. I really can't comprehend it.

and the idea that people will brand me as some sort of anti-femenists misogonystic zoe attacker because of it makes me hate the idea of waking up in the morning, it really does.

I've spent a lifetime fighting for equality for all people of all walks of life and if this is what I'm getting lumped on me for tweeting peace and kindness using a hashtag then the world is absurd enough to where I don't care if we even have equality any more.

 

[Battle]

But my point stands, the idea that since I'm not actively thrashing myself over zoe quinn means i'm in fact hurting her directly is absurd to me and if that's the logical steps this industry or this world is taking I sincerely no longer want to participate.

This is exactly what the SJWs want you to do. They think you should feel guilty.

 

[TaroYamada]

I cannot understand nor make a connection how me using #gamergate to say "be nice to everyone while this is going on" is condoning anything. I really can't comprehend it.

and the idea that people will brand me as some sort of anti-femenists misogonystic zoe attacker because of it makes me hate the idea of waking up in the morning, it really does.

I've spent a lifetime fighting for equality for all people of all walks of life and if this is what I'm getting lumped on me for tweeting peace and kindness using a hashtag then the world is absurd enough to where I don't care if we even have equality any more.

Once more relax, getting heated won't help you present your point. I understand why your upset because I've been on your side of it; the idea that requesting a more centrist games media (both in terms of politics and its proximity to the industry/devs) makes you some type of bigot is rather annoying and it's as far as I can tell, what's happening here but it's not as if them saying it makes it true.

It's a big leap and a lot of people might force it in an echo chamber but I don't think it's how the majority of people, or gamers, feel or think.

P.S.: thanks for retweeting about #segapcports , I appreciated it.

 

[zeldablue]

you guys keep accusing me of 'attacking people'. I'm beginning to believe someone is confusing the definition of that word.

I have absolutely no remote clue how you're arriving that I'm 'attacking' anyone, or have ever done so in my entire life. That implication is absolutely absurd if you actually knew me.

Here's the definition of the word as I understand it.

I reject and refute the idea that simply using a hashtag of #gamergate is "violently assaulting someone"

I don't believe you are attacking anyone. :]

However, you are on the defense, which is a much nicer form of the "attack."

Here are the natural defenses for deflecting criticisms and fears/traumas. (In this case, defenses against feminism)

The truest defense is:

Attack: When we feel threatened or attacked (even psychologically), we will attack back. When a person feels stressed in some way, they may lash out at whoever is in the way, whether the other person is a real cause or not. They may also attack inanimate objects.

People who see Anita feel personally psychologically attacked and lash out with death/rape threats.

Then there are things like denial, idealization, intellectualization, provocation, rationalization, reaction formation...

Those are all defenses. Defenses that block people from the root problem. This whole thing with the journalistic integrity/ethics angle is a very shallow way to rationalize and justify anti-feminist sentiments, without actually saying it out loud. It's a very veeery bad attempt to steer the problem away from us, gamers, unto something else.

Honestly, that's the easy way out. We have to be able to take the criticism eventually.

 

[V_Arnold]

I cannot understand nor make a connection how me using #gamergate to say "be nice to everyone while this is going on" is condoning anything. I really can't comprehend it.

and the idea that people will brand me as some sort of anti-femenists misogonystic zoe attacker because of it makes me hate the idea of waking up in the morning, it really does.

I've spent a lifetime fighting for equality for all people of all walks of life and if this is what I'm getting lumped on me for tweeting peace and kindness using a hashtag then the world is absurd enough to where I don't care if we even have equality any more.

To be short: it is like claiming to love Starbucks because of the fair trade label on the coffee.
Yeah, it is fair trade...but it is also Starbucks. One overweighs the other.

 

[Noaloha]

I cannot understand nor make a connection how me using #gamergate to say "be nice to everyone while this is going on" is condoning anything. I really can't comprehend it.

and the idea that people will brand me as some sort of anti-femenists misogonystic zoe attacker because of it makes me hate the idea of waking up in the morning, it really does.

I've spent a lifetime fighting for equality for all people of all walks of life and if this is what I'm getting lumped on me for tweeting peace and kindness using a hashtag then the world is absurd enough to where I don't care if we even have equality any more.

I don't think anyone will brand you a shithead, or accuse you hate, for being involved in the #gg thing. I do worry that using #gg as your platform hurts your message though, or at least opens it up to unnecessarily fuzzy consideration.

My personal opinion on how best to deal with #GG at this current time is
1) it's ill-advised to support #gamergate (referring to the specific hashtag, not the ethics/"gamer" discussion)
2) it's productive and a Good Thing to, at this moment, promote tolerance and empathy within the #gamergate hashtag

 

[boogie2988]

I don't think anyone will brand you a shithead, or accuse you hate, for being involved in the #gg thing. I do worry that using #gg as your platform hurts your message though, or at least opens it up to unnecessarily fuzzy consideration.

My personal opinion on how best to deal with #GG at this current time is
1) it's ill-advised to support #gamergate (referring to the specific hashtag, not the ethics/"gamer" discussion)
2) it's productive and a Good Thing to, at this moment, promote tolerance and empathy within the #gamergate hashtag

all I have done and all that I will do with the #gamergate hashtag is to encourage all people involved to have an intelligent debate which is moderate, kind, and empathic. I'll also continue to say that 4chaners shouldnt attack zoe and the gaming journals shouldnt attack gamers. I'm fairly certain that's obvious from my history on the subject.

I think I have made the decision that anyone who thinks I shouldn't be doing that, or thinks less of me for doing so, is not someone whose opinion I'm going to value. I'll simply agree to disagree on this matter and hope we can debate again on something else later.