Its been decades since Nintendo became a global company, more than enough time to get over any sort of lack of cultural awareness as to the diversity of their consumers in other countries. They showed enough awareness with the creation of Mii's to include a black skin tone. Can't act ignorant forever. If it helps, you can think of it in terms of Nintendo continually shafting online features in their games. Smash Run was confirmed to have no online and you can use the same sort of cultural excuse to say many of their Japanese fans are more accostomed to local multiplayer. Does that excuse them not implementing online for their Western fans? Of course not, since they even demonstrated an awareness of the problem with the implementation of the Streetpass Relay function. It would just be nice for Nintendo to add more diversity (and diversity options in the case of Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem Awakening, and Pokemon X/Y) for their games.
Who are your favorite black Nintendo characters?
- Thread starter KillerIsJed
- Start date
Its been decades since Nintendo became a global company, more than enough time to get over any sort of lack of cultural awareness as to the diversity of their consumers in other countries. They showed enough awareness with the creation of Mii's to include a black skin tone. Can't act ignorant forever. If it helps, you can think of it in terms of Nintendo continually shafting online features in their games. Smash Run was confirmed to have no online and you can use the same sort of cultural excuse to say many of their Japanese fans are more accostomed to local multiplayer. Does that excuse them not implementing online for their Western fans? Of course not, since they even demonstrated an awareness of the problem with the implementation of the Streetpass Relay function. It would just be nice for Nintendo to add more diversity (and diversity options in the case of Animal Crossing, Fire Emblem Awakening, and Pokemon X/Y) for their games.
While I do support Nintendo adding races of color (that are not Japanese) into their games, I think chasing after Super Smash Brothers is the wrong way to do it. Smash is supposed to be a celebration of established characters, it isn't the place for new character to show up. Similar to Super Mario Kart, if a new person of color were to show up, it would look like a token effort. People might say it would be better than nothing but it WOULD be worse than nothing if it appeared like that.
With that being said, there have been a growing amount of people of color and sexual orientation in Nintendo titles. It's just that NIntendo, like a lot of major companies, are about as fast as molasses. However, Advanced Wars, Pokemon, Xenoblade Chronicles, Batallion Wars, Game and Wario, and Aniimal Crossing shows this. It would be nice for a POC (I don't think we will have someone who is gay or bi because NIntendo doesn't make games that would have sexual relationships) as a main character, though. I just think that this thread is trying too hard to make it seem like Nintendo is this immense bigot.
Boss Man
Member
Probably? Not to mention there's at least a lot of interaction.
I mean, if you force it you're probably just going to end up with awful stereotypes. I was playing Punch Out with a friend the other day and saw my first Indian video game character. He had a magic tiger punch.
Come to think of it, there are a lot of Indian people. Lots of Indian programmers too. Where are all of the Indians in video games? Statistically, this should be more of a problem for Nintendo than not having enough black characters.
To say that a Japanese game developer isn't including enough black characters just seems like some kind of weird projection to me I guess.
How about we try to progress in things that matter more like gameplay, AI, animations etc. How about the stagnating industry right now where everything is cookie cutter and blends into each other. You know, the things that make game a game.
I am not talking about just Smash Bros. but as gaming in general.
JordanN
Banned
What is this suppose to mean?
I haven't had much contact with native aboriginal people but that doesn't mean I would go out of my way to not include them. Considering Japanese games (at one point) where meant to sell internationally, I think it's weirder for someone to not acknowledge the world outside them. Especially when we have been buying their games.
Or not even that, they still see black people elsewhere. Any Japanese gamer who has played Final Fantasy should know about Barret. Or what about famous celebrities like Michael Jackson? Surely he was popular since he even got his own appearance in Space Channel 5.
deadmuffin
Member
What about no more heroes?
Shinobu and Nathan Copeland were cool
Shinobu and Nathan Copeland were cool
So you not only spoil the final number of characters for smash, you keep going with the same tirade about "making people think"? The number of Nintendo characters that are non human is considerably larger than the number of humans, that reflects in Smash, obviously. Your trolling is annoying, I hope you get banned, specially for that fucking Smash spoiler.
are you fucking serious!?
Boss Man
Member
I'm not trying to argue that they don't know black people exist, I'm just saying that it's not common enough for them or close enough to their culture for them to be expected to have a black character in all of their games.
If you ever develop a game and include a native aboriginal character in it then good for you, but I think it's weird to expect games to do something like that. I don't think most video games are created with an intention to perform some sort of social justice (or attack it). They're just video games and people are making what they think is fun and/or relatable. I understand why a black person might want more games with black protagonists or something like that...but I don't really get why someone would think it's weird for Nintendo to not include many black characters. I honestly don't believe it's something that's on their radar at all one way or another.
There are zero Asian characters in Super Smash Brothers for 3DS, a game made by Japanese people. Think about that for a moment.......
KillerIsJed
Member
Since when is a number a spoiler? Nintendo themselves have said over 40 characters which means between 41 and 49. Watch out, major spoilers I guess?
I'm not sure how I'm trolling. And also the number of characters that are human is larger than those that aren't. I'd post the actual number but I don't want to spoil anything for you.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
For everyone speculation on whether the elusive black can be found in Japan-yes. We're here, and it's actually a pretty even distribution between white, black, etc.
The perception of black people in Japan is kind of layered; of course you have people who only know what they seen on TV and in movies, people who are into musical genres that have been predominantly black and interact that way, people who interact with military personnel, and so on. You also get occasional instances of imported racism like blackface and Little Black Sambo.
However, when it comes to your average Japanese game dev, they honestly don't even think about black people. The ones who put black characters in also tend to be the ones who have actually left Japan, interact with a wider variety of people, and/or consume a wider variety of media.
The perception of black people in Japan is kind of layered; of course you have people who only know what they seen on TV and in movies, people who are into musical genres that have been predominantly black and interact that way, people who interact with military personnel, and so on. You also get occasional instances of imported racism like blackface and Little Black Sambo.
However, when it comes to your average Japanese game dev, they honestly don't even think about black people. The ones who put black characters in also tend to be the ones who have actually left Japan, interact with a wider variety of people, and/or consume a wider variety of media.
Actually, for that matter, how is this a problem with only NIntendo? Look at other games made for a mostly Japanese audience. You hardly see anyone of color in those games. And yet here we are pretending that Nintendo is the sole cause of all video gaming woes.
I mean, COME ON! You could at least have said in the title: Who are your favorite black characters in Japanese video games. Because it is a problem with Japanese games.
KillerIsJed
Member
I could have said that, but I didn't. I'm focused on Nintendo, a company that has been around longer than most and has had series and consoles coming out for years and years. Arguably the biggest Japanese video game company with the longest history who has many customers that I'm sure are black.
ElectricKaibutsu
Member
Nintendo has a problem with anyone not white, not just black. Where are the Latino, middle eastern, and Asian characters? You have a point, but this thread is strangely narrow in focus.
Yes, and you have made it very clear that you are all about Nintendo. You are very clear that whenever you want to complain about it, you do it in the most hyperbolic way possible so everyone who reads feels insulted or rushes to its defense. Your OP, ESPECIALLY that added edit you made, does not seek for an actual discussion. It seeks to infuriate anyone so you can feel good about yourself and so many people can click on your OP.
You want a have an OP that actually discusses the problems you claim that interest you? Bloody make them! Talk about a large absence of non-white/Asian main characters. Talk about how "black" in Japan seems to come off as Exotic Tan at best. Talk about how Nintendo has whitewashed Daisy after her first 3D appearance so that she now looks as white as everyone else. Talk about how black people are usually, at best, side-line characters in Nintendo games. You do not make a topic asking "where the black people at?", post answers for series that don't really focus too much on human characters to begin with, proudly proclaim that you are a guy who loves licking controllers, and then act shock when people think you're troll posting. There is not a single attempt at discussion in your OP or any of your posts. It's just inflammatory remark after inflammatory remark with you posting simple one sentence phrases written in pretend-ignorance.
Stop making people who actually WANT to have discussion about this look like douchebags.
Coffee Dog
Banned
Little Mac is a hispanic looking dude ever since Punch Out Wii. He's definitely a person of color, and the first one in smash bros (that isn't ganondorf, though I doubt we're counting him considering he's literally evil incarnate)
Of course it is. The thread topic is arranged to be the most inflammatory possible so the thread gets the most hits. If he actually wanted to make a discussion post, we would have made a much better OP and title.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
I always considered Mac to be a white dude w/black hair.
Considering the circus of stereotypes (and skin colors) in Punch-Out, they could have made him look Hispanic if that was their setting for him, but I don't think it was.
So what is the necro post's solution for Smash??
I'm curious.
Not have Robin, Shulk, Villager, etc for
black Metroid guy, Doc, etc.
Then some people would say how horrible the roster is, and this and that, and not be celebrating its diversity.
I think some people like to stir up things without actually considering the solution.
Because I hope you weren't thinking they would make up fake minority characters for Smash? Then the "slot" warriros would really come out.
I'm curious.
Not have Robin, Shulk, Villager, etc for
black Metroid guy, Doc, etc.
Then some people would say how horrible the roster is, and this and that, and not be celebrating its diversity.
I think some people like to stir up things without actually considering the solution.
Because I hope you weren't thinking they would make up fake minority characters for Smash? Then the "slot" warriros would really come out.
I'd be careful about assuming that all of Nintendo's light-skinned characters are created with the intention of making a white character. Let's not forget that despite the heavy dialog changes, Capcom saw no need to make such drastic changes to the actual character designs of the Ace Attorney series, even though most of these are intended to be Japanese characters. A likely explanation is that westerners who look at these character designs don't immediately identify them as Japanese. The same might be said of Nintendo characters who aren't explicitly assigned to a specific ethnic group. We might see characters like Lucina and Shulk as being "white", but I'm not sure the creators or the Japanese audience see them the same way.
Of course, that's just my view as a white person, so I can't say for sure.
Of course, that's just my view as a white person, so I can't say for sure.
Firstly, what was hyperbolic and inflammatory about the post? Secondly, why do people like you always come out in these threads saying that the conversations should be had in your terms in the exact wordings you want? And no matter how polite posters make it, like the guy who wrote the OP, I have never seen threads with only those who doesn't get their feelings hurt for someone criticizing their favorite thing.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Mr game and watch...really? you need to watch what you are saying thats not a human and his color dont even classify as a skin tone. I dont know how these mods let you run around posting this BS.
Thank you. This whole thread is a goddamn insult.
Coffee Dog
Banned
I always considered Mac to be a white dude w/black hair.
Considering the circus of stereotypes (and skin colors) in Punch-Out, they could have made him look Hispanic if that was their setting for him, but I don't think it was.
I'm more talking about in Punch-Out Wii and Smash. In Punch Out NES he is most definitely a white dude.
KillerIsJed
Member
Clearly you both miss the point of this thread and also don't understand how satire works. You all want to bring in other discussions that have nothing to do with this (for example other races) when we are only talking about black characters.
Is Mr. Game and Watch black? Yup. He sure is. Is he black as in skin color as in real life people? No. But I'm making a point by saying he is the only black character, because it is the only one they have.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
And yet you still missing the point we are making. Please stop saying he is the only black character in the game the shit is not funny. Again, watch what you post. You arent making any sense nor are you in position to defend the crap you are spouting.
TheRedSnifit
Member
All of the anime-styled characters are intended to be Japanese.
I think you're missing his point. How many human characters are in Smash 4?
Nintendo can create whatever kind of characters they like. I don't feel that is an issue.
However, what is annoying is not being able to select a darker skin tone for an avatar in games like Fire Emblem Awakening and Animal Crossing.
With more avatar creation games like Xenoblade Chronicles X and Fantasy Life coming up, I hope that NOA and NOE address this problem.
However, what is annoying is not being able to select a darker skin tone for an avatar in games like Fire Emblem Awakening and Animal Crossing.
With more avatar creation games like Xenoblade Chronicles X and Fantasy Life coming up, I hope that NOA and NOE address this problem.
well, you can say they are eurasian
SenorArdilla
Member
This is that whole "Why do anime characters look white?" discussion all over again.
PreyingShark
Member
The Xenoblade and Fire Emblem casts are set in settings where them being white could totally be the intention, though, so it's not quite that.
WrenchNinja
Member
You mean like how the majority of protagonists are white males? Why yes, let's fix that. By having more racially diverse characters.
PreyingShark
Member
As far as the actual topic goes... Yes, more racial diversity would be nice.
I went to a high school where only like a tenth of the students - including me - were white, so I actually find moments where all I see are white people to be really weird.
I went to a high school where only like a tenth of the students - including me - were white, so I actually find moments where all I see are white people to be really weird.
ha. I don't know how satire works. ha. haha. It's always the same with you people. Let me guess. Your next phrase will be "Don't take it so seriously", right? Oh! Or how about "You obviously don't truly understand" or "You're bringing semantics into it"? Were those the next words you were going to use?
I can't stand your attitude. That "holier than thou" persona that pops up when one pretends the other is ignorant in order to feel superior. "You clearly don't understand satire", I CLEARLY UNDERSTAND BETTER THAN YOU IF YOU CALL THAT UNFUNNY, NON-IRONIC, AND NON-EXAGGERATED PIECE OF CRAP YOU CALL A POST! I don't understand it? Grab a fucking dictionary and read it!
And even if I did indulge in your little peacocking and said that that post WAS satire, it's a weak satire at best. If your point was to point out the lack of black characters in NIntendo (because I'm now 99% sure that you initially made this out to be a joke post, then pretending you had a point later on to save yourself some grace), then having a satire where you find black colored non-humans side characters is nonsensical BECAUSE THERE ARE MORE BLACK HUMAN SIDE-CHARACTERS THAN BLACK NON-HUMAN SIDE CHARACTERS. But no, you went for a choice that could cause the most outrage.
I'll say it again. You do not want a conversation. You want people to be mad so you feel superior. Congratulations, you have one. It is people like you that have help create the myth that "SJW wish to take our games away". It is people like you that have helped the most VILE degenerates come out of the woodwork to express their hatred freely and proudly. It is people like you that have made the video game community the most toxic community all because you wanted a reaction. You do not wish to talk about these topics because actually discussing them wouldn't be fun. You wish to anger. You wish to escalate. You refuse to see reason and see insults as a game. You want to actually discuss problems within the industry? At the very least, read about why these things happens. Don't act like a frat boy philosopher and think you're Socrates.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Why? Do the games take place in Europe?
Sylverstone14
Member
If this is meant to be satirical, then I seriously have a hard time finding the humor.
Furthermore, as a black male myself, this thread is just absolutely atrocious. There's really an interesting discussion to be had here, but definitely not in this way.
Diversity can be awesome, but the way that you're going about things almost made me believe I stumbled into a weird sect of Tumblrinas on GAF.
Furthermore, as a black male myself, this thread is just absolutely atrocious. There's really an interesting discussion to be had here, but definitely not in this way.
Diversity can be awesome, but the way that you're going about things almost made me believe I stumbled into a weird sect of Tumblrinas on GAF.
Punchy4486
Banned
Sorry, double post.
Punchy4486
Banned
It's hard to tell, but I think the modern version of Little Mac is portrayed as Latino.
Gannondorf is Middle Eastern like the rest of the Gerudo.
Captain Falcon seems to be Asian and the Ice Climbers are about as Inuit as Mario and Luigi are Italian, lol.
But your point is true, there isn't nearly enough diversity in Nintendo games (and most Japanese games in general).
I always considered Mac to be a white dude w/black hair.
Considering the circus of stereotypes (and skin colors) in Punch-Out, they could have made him look Hispanic if that was their setting for him, but I don't think it was.
Don Flamenco is literally from Spain:
Here is what Little Mac looked like in that same game:
The modern version of Little Mac is clearly intended to be Hispanic in that game.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Or a white guy with a tan
A Link to the Past
Banned
Seriously people, anyone arguing that Link is not white is wrong
Link is a part of a race designed specifically after our white races
Link is a part of a race designed specifically after our white races
Punchy4486
Banned
To be fair, it would make sense for him to be an Italian-American as a Rocky reference, and he looks vaguely in that ballpark as well.
My honest initial perception of him when I played the game was Hispanic, and I liked that, though due to the Rocky thing I'm thinking the intention probably was Italian-American now.
arglebargle
Member
you clearly have more experience in japan than i do, and im not about to tell you your experiences are invalid or wrong or anything. i spent a month or so in japan last year and my wife and i were shocked at some of the racism we saw (we are from the northeastern US). the most glaring example came when we were in a bar in roppongi. it was crowded and as travelers we were open to meeting people so we shared a table with a black guy who was in tokyo on business. the waiter took orders from my wife and i several times and each time he came to the table the guy asked for a coke and the waiter kept listening to his order and then not bringing it to him. eventually we just ordered the coke for him. seemed like a cool guy, but it was clear the waiters and bartenders did not want him there. he seemed resigned to this. maybe i misinterpreted what was going on or maybe it was exceptional, but it certainly didnt seem that way.
Mihael Mello Keehl
Banned
Eh im making a guess.. If Nintendo gave us a full first and last name we would know. Assuming unknowm stuff is as good as fanfiction in my eyes, no offense.
Look who is angering and escalating. Hypocrite.
PreyingShark
Member
They're heavily influenced by European fantasy. Among other things, the names are a pretty good indication of this.