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[Redrop]

I made a review earlier too!

Granted, it was before the game came out, but from the sound of this thread I think it encapsulates the experience pretty well.

Spoiler

i still plan on playing the full game when it bombas near black friday, but only if it's sub $30

Dat foresight.

 

[-MD-]

It's easy to break the AI in the game, to a point of being ridiculous. Since all the enemies are on a tether, once you figure where that tether is...

For example, melees ai is simple-Avoid grenade areas, get target. When you apply the tether, it becomes-
1-Avoid grenade areas
2-mind the tether area
3-Go to tether if possible

So what happens if you put a grenade between them and their tether? They freeze up. They try to retreat to the tether area but can't, and they can't cross the grenade, so they'll just sit there.
http://a.pomf.se/tpjsiv.webm

Harmless. Ranged enemies will shoot at you when possible, otherwise melee is a bit broken.

Holy shit.

 

[BloodMoney]

Ugh, where is the story...
Disappointed.

 

[Steel]

It's easy to break the AI in the game, to a point of being ridiculous. Since all the enemies are on a tether, once you figure where that tether is...

For example, melees ai is simple-Avoid grenade areas, get target. When you apply the tether, it becomes-
1-Avoid grenade areas
2-mind the tether area
3-Go to tether if possible

So what happens if you put a grenade between them and their tether? They freeze up. They try to retreat to the tether area but can't, and they can't cross the grenade, so they'll just sit there.
http://a.pomf.se/tpjsiv.webm

Harmless. Ranged enemies will shoot at you when possible, otherwise melee is a bit broken.

That's actually pretty hilarious. Normally for melee enemies I just use the tether over and over again. This needs a gif.

What do you mean by "tether"?

They're bound to a certain area and can't get out of it. Like MMO mobs.

 

[Kimosabae]

It's easy to break the AI in the game, to a point of being ridiculous. Since all the enemies are on a tether, once you figure where that tether is...

For example, melees ai is simple-Avoid grenade areas, get target. When you apply the tether, it becomes-
1-Avoid grenade areas
2-mind the tether area
3-Go to tether if possible

So what happens if you put a grenade between them and their tether? They freeze up. They try to retreat to the tether area but can't, and they can't cross the grenade, so they'll just sit there.
http://a.pomf.se/tpjsiv.webm

Harmless. Ranged enemies will shoot at you when possible, otherwise melee is a bit broken.

What do you mean by "tether"?

 

[BlackProdigy]

Game did not meet expectation but it doesnt deserve 6s and 7s I see it getting -____-

 

[BreezyLimbo]

What do you mean by "tether"?

Imagine in the center of a room is a giant pole. Any enemy that spawns in that room, has an invisible rope attaching him to that pole in the middle of the room. This rope has a limit-Let's say, 10 meters. That means if an enemy tries to cross 10 meters, he's suddenly pulled back to to the limit of the rope.

In essence, what happened, the area I was standing in was an invisible wall to the enemies. The Hive Knights AI seems to be programmed where they can charge you if you're within X meters, regardless of the tether. However, whether or not they complete this charge, they have to rush back to the tether.

The hive Knight in the webm tried to charge me because I got close to him, but he overstepped his bounds, which is when I trapped him with the grenade. So instead of going through the grenade zone, or continuing to assail me, he stood there because he's not programmed in a scenario where he's blocked from retreating to the tether. Which is well...shoddy programming?

 

[Izuna]

Game did not meet expectation but it doesnt deserve 6s and 7s I see it getting -____-

So, it deserves at least an 8?

What if it did meet expectations? 9? 10?

 

[leng jai]

Game did not meet expectation but it doesnt deserve 6s and 7s I see it getting -____-

8 is a very good score, so I'm not surprised Destiny's isn't getting 8s from everyone.

 

[Danomeon]

Game did not meet expectation but it doesnt deserve 6s and 7s I see it getting -____-

I'd say this is a 6 or 7 regardless of the hype. It trades a lot of fun stuff (a compelling campaign, a fleshed-out story, a wealth of PvP modes) for MMO-iness, then fails to be a good social game by having little to no way to interact with other players. Not to mention the strikes feature design decisions that wouldn't have flown in 2005's dungeon scene. (Healthbucket bosses, few mechanics, no individual loot drops for every boss).

This game would be a 9 if the story, strikes, and PvP were all up to the standards of a normal Bungie game/MMO. But as of right now, I'd definitely give it a 6.5

 

[Head.spawn]

What do you mean by "tether"?

I think "leash" might be a better way to describe it. Or maybe think of it like an electrical fence that AI really doesn't want to leave.

I tried describing this bug in another post by calling it "zone-engage".

The jist of it is that the AI will only actively attack you if you're within a certain invisible zone/area of the map. If you take step back one-inch, the AI will go back to where they were positioned before you entered, into their disengage mode. If you shoot them in the disengage mode, they might move, sometimes, but if you haven't passed the invisible line, they absolutely will not attack.

IMO, I think this is some cross-gen 360/PS3 memory limitation work-around that they implemented and have left as-is in the XBO/PS4 version.

 

[FartOfWar]

That's actually pretty hilarious. Normally for melee enemies I just use the tether over and over again. This needs a gif.



They're bound to a certain area and can't get out of it. Like MMO mobs.

Dev term is spatial restriction. They're volume based. Nothing to do with cross gen limitations.

 

[Synth]

The jist of it is that the AI will actively attack you only if you're within a certain invisible zone/area of the map. If you take step back one-inch, the AI will go back to where they were positioned before you entered, into their disengage mode. If you shoot them in the disengage mode, they might move, sometimes, but if you haven't passed the invisible line, they absolutely will not attack.

This may be the first thing Destiny has actually matched Phantasy Star Online on.

 

[Kimosabae]

Imagine in the center of a room is a giant pole. Any enemy that spawns in that room, has an invisible rope attaching him to that pole in the middle of the room. This rope has a limit-Let's say, 10 meters. That means if an enemy tries to cross 10 meters, he's suddenly pulled back to to the limit of the rope.

In essence, what happened, the area I was standing in was an invisible wall to the enemies. The Hive Knights AI seems to be programmed where they can charge you if you're within X meters, regardless of the tether. However, whether or not they complete this charge, they have to rush back to the tether.

The hive Knight in the webm tried to charge me because I got close to him, but he overstepped his bounds, which is when I trapped him with the grenade. So instead of going through the grenade zone, or continuing to assail me, he stood there because he's not programmed in a scenario where he's blocked from retreating to the tether. Which is well...shoddy programming?

Interesting. Thanks for the detailed clarification.


Really weird seeing people praise the AI in the other thread. Between this and watching my cousin play, it looks totally pedestrian.

 

[-MD-]

Game did not meet expectation but it doesnt deserve 6s and 7s I see it getting -____-

I'd only give an 8 to a good game that I enjoyed quite a bit, like the newest Wolfenstein was a solid 8 to me.

The 6's sound justified for this game.

 

[spootime]

It's easy to break the AI in the game, to a point of being ridiculous. Since all the enemies are on a tether, once you figure where that tether is...

For example, melees ai is simple-Avoid grenade areas, get target. When you apply the tether, it becomes-
1-Avoid grenade areas
2-mind the tether area
3-Go to tether if possible

So what happens if you put a grenade between them and their tether? They freeze up. They try to retreat to the tether area but can't, and they can't cross the grenade, so they'll just sit there.
http://a.pomf.se/tpjsiv.webm

Harmless. Ranged enemies will shoot at you when possible, otherwise melee is a bit broken.

Thats pretty cool. Did you figure that that out yourself?

 

[Hawk269]

Anyone else feel that the Beta actually hurt the game in regards to single player? Reason I say that is that the Story is really short and it does not take long to beat the SP portion, the beta alone gave you 1/4 of the SP game. I think the beta should of just been MP stuff.

 

[Izuna]

I think "leash" might be a better way to describe it. Or maybe think of it like an electrical fence that AI really doesn't want to leave.

I tried describing this bug in another post by calling it "zone-engage".

The jist of it is that the AI will only actively attack you if you're within a certain invisible zone/area of the map. If you take step back one-inch, the AI will go back to where they were positioned before you entered, into their disengage mode. If you shoot them in the disengage mode, they might move, sometimes, but if you haven't passed the invisible line, they absolutely will not attack.

IMO, I think this is some cross-gen 360/PS3 memory limitation work-around that they implemented and have left as-is in the XBO/PS4 version.

But it's server sided...

 

[computers putin']

After a few matches in the Crucible I can say that it hasn't left a good impression on me either. The maps I've played have been way too small for my tastes ( I was hoping for maps closer to the moon one from the beta, but even then the maps seem smaller than even the venus one). Every match in the Crucible I've played so far has been a terrible, lopsided win for one team; this game either needs some skill based matchmaking, or to separate parties into their own playlist. I've seen a few ridiculous abilities in mp so far, so it doesn't seem too balanced in my limited time with it. Matches also feel a little too chaotic too, very CoD-ish. just first impressions though, hopefully they change.

Edit: Also, it's a bit laggy too, and feels a bit sluggish overall.

 

[Head.spawn]

But it's server sided...

Holy shit. Didn't know that, I thought it was maybe computed locally and that might be the reason for it, but that thought doesn't any damned sense now that I think about it.

So do you think it was intentional? I was thinking it might be, because I picked up on it probably within the first or second mission in the game. There is no possible way they couldn't have noticed.

 

[Einchy]

I'm so glad everyone is shitting on the story mode.

They couldn't be dumb enough to repeat this for Destiny 2, right? Right?!

 

[Ol No Bones]

What's so disappointing to me is that the game feels so good from the shooter side of things that a more conventional approach to game design could have made this a real gem. The game tries to do much and ends up neglecting things. If you took the same art with the same weapons and paired it with a solid story being told and robust competitive multiplayer it could have been something really special. I know it would have ended up being more like a halo game but that's not necessarily a bad thing.

 

[FartOfWar]

But it's server sided...

I explained what it is if you're interested. Spatial restriction volumes have many uses. They might be placed to prevent too many bots from scattering or rushing a player down at once; to zone ai squads in such a way that helps sell that they belong to fighting units; to avoid bot population cap issues in cases where players kite mulitiple bots into other combat zones with their own spawn requirements; to prevent bot presence in areas with narrative triggers; etc. Usually a melee bots behavior tree has it attempt to break line of sight if it cannot path to its target. Issues are as likely to arise from spatial restriction authoring as they are from programming.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Thats pretty cool. Did you figure that that out yourself?

Kinda. I remembered reading about how enemies went around grenade areas(From Dattos video) and the tether I figured out by myself. It became a matter of apply A to B, and seeing the result. I also enjoy dabbling in AI theory, seeing how things work in games.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

And this is why you don't get it. The game delivered includes the raid. It's a 7 day wait.

And why is it a 7 day raid? What could possibly be the justification? Not to mention, how exactly is the raid going to save this game from all its flaws?

If you had played the actually challenging content you would realize the raid would be too hard to do right away. Then you would get reviewers saying this game is too hard or nerf the raid.

....What? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If the raid requires being level X to be doable, then okay, that's what it requires. That's still not a reason to delay its inclusion for 7 days; just make it late in the game where players are powerful enough.

Like I said before it's so easy to see who has and hasn't played Destiny in this thread and that should tell you something about the criticism this game is receiving. The criticism is shallow and uninformed. The social aspects are weak and the story is weak beyond that destiny is a great game, an extremely solid shooter and a fantastic Co op game.

i mean what is with people criticisizing aspects of a game they havent even experienced. In all my years on gaf i never spoke up unless i had atleast experience on what im talking about.

Because the game has been released and people have played it, even if they haven't played THE RAID. By that logic, you shouldn't be allowed to praise the game either, because hey, the raid isn't out yet, so you can't have an opinion about the game! Or does that only work if the opinion doesn't match yours?

Destiny is the same to me, I take a lot of enjoyment just from being inside the levels. I think the world they created reeks of atmosphere, and history. That's how I feel they are similar.

Just like Panzer Dragoon Saga.

What?! Where the hell are those comparisons to PS coming from? PDS is very lore rich, but it's also very story-driven, with tons of memorable characters and powerful cut scenes.

 

[SeanR1221]

I don't know what happened from the beta til now, but this game is boring me to tears; and I LOVED the beta.I'm hoping once I get through these beginning missions(....again) it'll get better, but I'm not having a real good time with the game so far.

This is where I stand. I loved the beta and the alpha but the finished product is just...more of the same. I figured I was just scratching the surface but no. It plays well, it's just really boring.

I've never had such a 180 on a game before.

 

[Izuna]

I explained what it is if you're interested. Spatial restriction volumes have many uses. They might be placed to prevent too many bots from scattering or rushing a player down at once; to zone ai squads in such a way that helps sell that they belong to fighting units; to avoid bot population cap issues in cases where players kite mulitiple bots into other combat zones with their own spawn requirements; to prevent bot presence in areas with narrative triggers; etc. Usually a melee bots behavior tree has it attempt to break line of sight if it cannot path to its target.

I wasn't complaining that it exists, I'm used to it a lot, the grenade bug is the issue. What I was replying to however is that it may be a memory constraint. Like PSV PSO2, they just lower the number of enemies available in its servers.

 

[FartOfWar]

I wasn't complaining that it exists, I'm used to it a lot, the grenade bug is the issue. What I was replying to however is that it may be a memory constraint. Like PSV PSO2, they just lower the number of enemies available in its servers.

I was explaining that it's unlikely that it has to do with server-client issues. I haven't played yet, but guessing from the webm, it's simply a behavior tree issue where "don't path into a grenade" is of higher priority than "break line of sight when cannot path to target." This, of course, is a guess, but it isn't totally uninformed. I worked with Damian Isla who wrote the AI for Halo 2 and 3. Anyhow, if it's a pervasive exploit, I'm positive they can patch it easily.

 

[Maninthemirror]

So the general consensus is, with the beta they blew their load early, the game has too many complicated ideas which half work and simplicity to gameplay would have been a better solution ?

 

[george_us]

There's elements I LOVE about Destiny, mainly the combat, gorgeous art, and amazing soundtrack but everything else is so bad. The main culprit that's making me stop is how tedious and 'grindy' the end game is. It feels like I could play this for 2-3 hours and not accomplish anything. If Bungie even fixes this, I'd probably be willing to stick around a little longer. The fact that Bungie actually had the nerve to announce not one, but two $15 expansion packs before the game even released leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I may return if for a Destiny GOTY edition that fixes many of the games problems and has all of the DLC included. As of now though, I'm done with the game.

 

[Izuna]

I was explaining that it's unlikely that it has to do with server-client issues. I haven't played yet, but guessing from the webm, it's simply a behavior tree issue where "don't path into a grenade" is of higher priority than "break line of sight when cannot path to target."

We are kinda agreeing here. I really love your explanations. I just wanted to say that this isn't a case of last gen holding new gen back.

 

[ProvenDeadly]

At what level do you begin earning crucible marks?

 

[purg3]

At what level do you begin earning crucible marks?

18

 

[Necromanti]

Just went to Target and thought it was funny to see a large display by Gamespot advertising the game with some guy speaking in front of trailer footage, with some slogan about being the place you can expect the most unbiased reviews from or something on the bottom.

In the end, though, I don't know whether Bungie will even need to address the criticisms that a lot of people bring up if they have a consistent content/DLC schedule; I feel that the majority are satisfied with the game as it is as a framework since they find it accessible, especially if you look at people's Tweets about Destiny; while some feel that it's one of the best games they've played and that it's shaping up to overtake COD as their go-to game, many enjoy grinding that they happen to find addictive, streaming the game, and playing it with friends. There won't be any sort of "backlash", at least, unless people start growing bored with what's there.

 

[Head.spawn]

I was explaining that it's unlikely that it has to do with server-client issues. I haven't played yet, but guessing from the webm, it's simply a behavior tree issue where "don't path into a grenade" is of higher priority than "break line of sight when cannot path to target." This, of course, is a guess, but it isn't totally uninformed. I worked with Damian Isla who wrote the AI for Halo 2 and 3. Anyhow, if it's a pervasive exploit, I'm positive they can patch it easily.

Thanks for the clarification on this. It's always nice to learn something.

It's just a weird thing to see happen, it completely takes the game immersion away. Maybe it wouldn't be so jarring if I wasn't able to look directly at the AI as they're doing it.

That grenade clip tho, that is begging to turned into a gif. lol

 

[frequency]

And why is it a 7 day raid? What could possibly be the justification?

....What? That doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If the raid requires being level X to be doable, then okay, that's what it requires. That's still not a reason to delay its inclusion for 7 days; just make it late in the game where players are powerful enough.

This is kind of standard practice in MMORPGs. You delay the raid open date so that all the people interested in racing for world first can catch up and start on the same footing. It gives everyone a week to prepare rather than having the no-sleep-no-work crowd get world first just by virtue of lack of an adult's schedule.

But anyway, I think I agree with you overall. I think reviews should be done for day one. Not promise of future content. Even if the raid is the most amazing thing ever, it does not invalidate criticisms made prior. You can't delay reviews indefinitely with "but there will be more content added in the future!"

If it was really such a huge part and Bungie truly believes it will change everything, they should have provided press accounts that were of appropriate level to enter the raid and opened it up for press prior to release to experience. Delaying reviews by sending out copies a day before release is already shady.

 

[Poodlestrike]

I'm so glad everyone is shitting on the story mode.

They couldn't be dumb enough to repeat this for Destiny 2, right? Right?!

I dunno. I've seen a lot of people on IGN defending the story; they might just think that this sort of thing is okay.

 

[funkystudent]

I do like this game. I just wish there was more of it.

Its like they looked at Diablo and Borderlands. Took the loot based game idea with a very light story but only had about 6 hours of game to go around unlike those other games which are 20 hour+ games.

The end game "just replay what you just played" stuff really isnt for me. Wish it had some kind of NG+ / prestige mode with better loot or something.


I do like the PVP though. And the Strikes are fun in that Left 4 Dead "I am glad I only payed $5 for this game on the steam sale and played each level once" kind of way. Not something I can see myself replayed.

 

[Ingueferroque]

I dunno. I've seen a lot of people on IGN defending the story; they might just think that this sort of thing is okay.

Are you going to complain that Monster Hunter doesn't have a story either? Some of you act like Bungie got away with something here.. it's obviously a design decision. If you don't like it, that's fine. But stop acting like the game is missing something or that Bungie had ill intent.

 

[FartOfWar]

Thanks for the clarification on this. It's always nice to learn something.

It's just a weird thing to see happen, it completely takes the game immersion away. Maybe it wouldn't be so jarring if I wasn't able to look directly at the AI as they're doing it.

That grenade clip tho, that is begging to turned into a gif. lol

Debugging spatial restriction edge cases was a nightmare in BioShock Infinite. Especially on last gen where bot counts were at such a premium and we had to guarantee you weren't looking at bots when we despawned (saved off their scenarios) and respawned them.

 

[Surface of Me]

Are you going to complain that Monster Hunter doesn't have a story either? Some of you act like Bungie got away with something here.. it's obviously a design decision. If you don't like it, that's fine. But stop acting like the game is missing something or that Bungie had ill intent.

"We want Destiny's story to stand next to LotR and SW"

 

[Northeastmonk]

I do like this game. I just wish there was more of it.

Its like they looked at Diablo and Borderlands. Took the loot based game idea with a very light story but only had about 6 hours of game to go around unlike those other games which are 20 hour+ games.

The end game "just replay what you just played" stuff really isnt for me. Wish it had some kind of NG+ / prestige mode with better loot or something.


I do like the PVP though. And the Strikes are fun in that Left 4 Dead "I am glad I only payed $5 for this game on the steam sale and played each level once" kind of way. Not something I can see myself replayed.

I was completely shocked I finished the main story. I'm not an MMO guy who likes to raid the same thing over and over again. Like Fallout and Skyrim. I like knowing there are tons and tons of missions. I'm not stuck in the game.

Spoiler

I reached level 20 and I've done the same few Strikes now over and over (the ones you can't finish) and I'm not seeing a lot to choose from. I feel like I just completed an 8 hour campaign.

I think I might wait a day or two and see what they have planned.

Spoiler

There's the 6 man raid, but good luck doing that until you're 26 or have the right gear.

I feel like 5 or 6 expansions will get Destiny to where I think it should of been now. I came in here liking it, then I did most of what I could do. I feel like I'm in Diablo 2. It's a good feeling, but

Spoiler

I can't believe the main plot was so short.

 

[Izuna]

Are you going to complain that Monster Hunter doesn't have a story either?

Monster Hunter's story is far more robust and understandable than Destiny. Assuming we are talking about MonHan 2 (Portable 1), the village needs to strive and the hunters are there collecting spoils to take out a larger more legendary monster that threatens the whole village. You also learn that in a few minutes of playing.

Destiny has cutscenes and a STORY portion, and yet it's attrocius.

Without the Story... If Destiny was just the 5 Strikes and PvP from the get-go and nothing else, it would be exactly the same as it is at endgame.

SO yeah, the Story is pretty darn important.

 

[Poodlestrike]

Are you going to complain that Monster Hunter doesn't have a story either? Some of you act like Bungie got away with something here.. it's obviously a design decision. If you don't like it, that's fine. But stop acting like the game is missing something or that Bungie had ill intent.

I'm sorry, but that's rank bullshit. Having a minimalist approach to storytelling is a design decision. Having a shitty story is not.

 

[Morrigan Stark]

Are you going to complain that Monster Hunter doesn't have a story either? Some of you act like Bungie got away with something here.. it's obviously a design decision. If you don't like it, that's fine. But stop acting like the game is missing something or that Bungie had ill intent.

Did Capcom promise the MH story to be on the level of LotR and Star Wars?

I'm actually fine with a nearly non-existent story. But when you boast of your epic space opera, you better have something more than a shoddy nonplot with unmemorable characters.

 

[Astral Dog]

Oh yeah, I made a review earlier

Enough information and to the point,

 

[Gorillaz]

my boy is playing it right now and I'm watching him and it really bugs me how there isnt any sort of couch coop and that the entire social aspect of the game is part is shit.

like it really is blowing my mind that they wanted this to be the big next game yet had the worst social integration I have ever seen

 

[Barrel Cannon]

Unless you're outnumbered...

The poor AI in Destiny is pretty obvious.

http://xboxclips.com/video.php?uid=...asky&vid=6213ff05-e5da-4614-859f-939d600ec912

Considering this is a game you are supposed to play with 2 others, enemies that lose track of you despite moving away so that there was only one way for me to reencounter them, make this game a simple case of challenge only comes from them taking too many shots to die.

Someone's been playing on normal lol. Try that again on hard or higher and see if that happens

 

[WrenchNinja]

When people are so upset they throw the baby out with the bathwater yes I call that screaming. People are so upset about the lack of "why" or lack of story it ruins the game for them. Look at the 6.5 in the egm review. Great gunplay and addictive gameplay but no story and I don't feel like the hero so 6.5. That's getting really upset that there isn't a good story.

When the story is told so incredibly poorly and you're forced to go through the tedious and uninspired missions along the way to see if there really is anything worthwhile in the campaign, I'd say the 6.5 is more than warranted. That's 10 or so hours that I can't get back. Personally I dont think people are throwing the baby out with the bathwater as there's no baby here to begin with.

 

[BreezyLimbo]

Someone's been playing on normal lol. Try that again on hard or higher and see if that happens

Actually at level 20 it's considered a heroic version of the mission...