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[Sketchbag]

Thats wrong on so many levels. "Casuals" never make or break a game or a system. "Casuals" are the one you have to feed instant gratification over and over again. Wii was driven by casuals. They moved on to the next thing (mobile) WiiU is "dead"

on an MMO Level, Core and Hardcore Players are the ones who create a thriving community (if your game is good) They are the ones who have core or casual friends. Thats the rat-tail phenomen. If you cater to Casual userbase. You must feed them instant gratification on a constant basis.

(Hard)Core players are fine with a challenge and play the games for months on end. Their social circle that comes on every so often or only plays because their hardcore friends plays, is the foundation of a healthy MMO.

Without the core you dont have the thing that binds all the players together

You clearly did not read my comment. Please re-read again and then think.

 

[Sercsd]

Should Bungie has spent more time on the rest of the game than the raid that most won't be able to do if it's so hard and lacks match making. As a student I'd have been able to do this but now with life and work I'm froze out and watching on twitch/youtube.

 

[Ramocalypse]

It's the lack of interesting boss phases that's the issue, not the high health pools.

Or any kind of interesting mechanics, its not hard just boring.

 

[MaximusPayne]

It also requires six players, and remember: all must be friends; there's no matchmaking for the raid.

What Shenanigans are these? I have five friends online and only two or three are on when I am on and only 1 other has Destiny. Bullshit.

 

[WhatsintheBox]

this looks tough

 

[Salty Hippo]

oh great I'm locked out of it since my friends don't play destiny.

Hey Kudos for that Bungie.

Thank god I didn't waste my time leveling up past 20. I'm so done with this game.

 

[Cmagus]

It will be interesting to see which group finishes first they seem to be neck and neck with each other.

 

[FLEABttn]

What Shenanigans are these? I have five friends online and only two or three are on when I am on and only 1 other has Destiny. Bullshit.

Now you get to hear 10+ year old arguments about how you're not trying hard enough and this is your fault.

 

[Smidget]

It also requires six players, and remember: all must be friends; there's no matchmaking for the raid.

Wow, that's horrible. Why do regular strikes have matchmaking but not this?

 

[Noisepurge]

It also requires six players, and remember: all must be friends; there's no matchmaking for the raid.

What Shenanigans are these? I have five friends online and only two or three are on when I am on and only 1 other has Destiny. Bullshit.

Wow, that's horrible. Why do regular strikes have matchmaking but not this?

have you watched the stream, it cannot be played with random people without dedicated coordination (movement, location). And it apparently takes over 4 hours to complete. What random people are going to do that with you?

 

[Arkos]

Is there a good stream of this? The link a page ago didn't work for me :/

 

[Sketchbag]

Now you get to hear 10+ year old arguments about how you're not trying hard enough and this is your fault.

This isn't even about getting Onyxia's cloak or fire, nature, and cold resistance gear either. This is getting a party started. Probably last until in to the night.

 

[MaximusPayne]

have you watched the stream, it cannot be played with random people without dedicated coordination (movement, location). And it apparently takes over 4 hours to complete. What random people are going to do that with you?

What online friends are going to do that with you? lol

 

[Noisepurge]

What online friends are going to do that with you? lol

people like this: http://www.twitch.tv/admiral_bahroo

but yeah, this is not a mainstream thing. Only for the hardcorest clan players.

 

[Give War A Chance]

It also requires six players, and remember: all must be friends; there's no matchmaking for the raid.

What Shenanigans are these? I have five friends online and only two or three are on when I am on and only 1 other has Destiny. Bullshit.

Unfortunately for now, either you need to pick up some more people on your friends list (via GAF seems like a good idea) or pick up some people from the Tower...

It is a weird thing, honestly. I don't understand the clan system in this. It would make raiding a bit easier, as you'd be able to group up with clan mates much more easily...

Until they add matchmaking, these are our only options though, sadly.

 

[Evolved1]

So apparently sitting down in the farming cave is a thing now... :rollseyes

 

[Pop]

Or any kind of interesting mechanics, its not hard just boring.

So the raid isn't hard? haha give me a break

People acting like they never seen raids in MMO's. They aren't meant for everyone and if there was matchmaking, it would fail pretty quick. You need teamwork in this.

 

[erragal]

At least half the people in here should go read Wildstar's raid attunement process at release.

Destiny has been out for a week. It is not a grindy game. Instant gratification has replaced the idea of a learning curve.

Matchmaking is bad for social games in the highest level of content. You do not want a raid finder.

It's fascinating to watch mmo neophytes rail against some very benign design decisions.

 

[jaosobno]

That mofo, Atheon...

Is the entire fucking raid based on someone constantly carrying that idiotic shield?

 

[Kosma]

Matchmaking is bad for social games in the highest level of content. You do not want a raid finder.
.

Agree.

But there is no way in Destiny to make friends cause you can't talk to people like in normal MMO's.

 

[King Gilga]

At least half the people in here should go read Wildstar's raid attunement process at release

And wildstar is dead. Not really a coincidence. And just because someone does something worse than you doesn't make what you're doing any better.

And honestly you can't compare this to a PC mmo, it's easy to join pugs or guilds or w/e for raids/dungs w/e because you have zone chat or w/e and can use text communication.

In destiny you can't.

 

[JCizzle]

Thats wrong on so many levels. "Casuals" never make or break a game or a system. "Casuals" are the one you have to feed instant gratification over and over again. Wii was driven by casuals. They moved on to the next thing (mobile) WiiU is "dead"

on an MMO Level, Core and Hardcore Players are the ones who create a thriving community (if your game is good) They are the ones who have core or casual friends. Thats the rat-tail phenomen. If you cater to Casual userbase. You must feed them instant gratification on a constant basis.

(Hard)Core players are fine with a challenge and play the games for months on end. Their social circle that comes on every so often or only plays because their hardcore friends plays, is the foundation of a healthy MMO.

Without the core you dont have the thing that binds all the players together

WoW is the most successful mmo of all time and caters to both audiences to ensure they have fulfilling experiences and character progression. I don't buy it. If it was all about the hardcore players, then dark souls would be the most successful game of all time. It still is very successful (don't get me wrong), but it doesn't have the widespread sales or appeal of other games that cater to all audiences.

 

[Ape]

have you watched the stream, it cannot be played with random people without dedicated coordination (movement, location). And it apparently takes over 4 hours to complete. What random people are going to do that with you?

What random people? It's just as unlikely that someone starts the event and doesn't finish as one of my friends would. Everyone is in the mindset to complete it when they start, then if something comes up they have to quit. It's no different.

 

[Owensboro]

That is interesting because I mostly keep seeing is bullet sponge this bullet sponge that.

The issue is that if there are no interesting mechanics to the fight that make it fun, all you notice is how little damage you do to the boss and how long and boring it's going to be to kill him. Yes, every boss in an MMO is a damage sponge, but usually there is something more interesting about the encounter than just "watch his health bar go down and avoid this one move".

People keep dropping the "bullet sponge" term because they don't see the more interesting mechanics behind the fight. (NOTE: I say this having not played the game at all, but I can't imagine the bosses don't have them. That would be insane if they really are just bullet sponges.)

 

[Jarate]

Agree.

But there is no way in Destiny to make friends cause you can't talk to people like in normal MMO's.

You have a NeoGAF account, play with some bro here if you can't find a dedicated group

I agree that voice chat is important, and should be implemented, but luckily we have a gaming site to facilitate your hardcover playing

 

[PetriP-TNT]

Rumor has it there are 4 bosses. Further group is on boss 2.


http://www.twitch.tv/kinggothalion

Well this looks frustrating as fuck. At least it's hard.

 

[psylah]

From what I can tell from the stream, the tactics for the Atheron boss seems to be that when he comes out you do minimal damage to him until he teleports 3 of the party into an alternate dimension.

The three outside need to fight of adds to open up the portal so the other can escape the other dimension while the three inside needs to pick up a shield and kill the oracles in the alternate dimension so that they don't get DoT'd and die while waiting for the outside group to open the portal for them.

Once they are all outside they are able to use the shield on the boss in order to do damage to him.

GAF would prefer you be able to group 6 randoms at level 20, jump on his head 3 times and he dies in an explosion of legendaries and exotics. People who want this should just play WoW, "raiding" is already like this and its a joke.

Wow, that's horrible. Why do regular strikes have matchmaking but not this?

Because if you grouped randoms you have no quality control. You have people leaving halfway, sitting around AFK, people who don't know how to do the fights... that would be the shittiest of experiences. At least with people you know you can count on you will be able to make some progress.

Raiding should award hard work, dedication, teamwork. If it gives away the glory and gear for free, it all becomes worthless.

If you're not willing to do put in the work, play the other 95% of the game. Raiding isn't for you.

 

[Ramocalypse]

So the raid isn't hard? haha give me a break

People acting like they never seen raids in MMO's. They aren't meant for everyone and if there was matchmaking, it would fail pretty quick. You need teamwork in this.

You misunderstood, or I guess I wasn't clear. I was referring to the strikes. They are nothing really but deploy ghost defeat wave, shoot boss until dead. The Raid looks much more interesting to me. There is no reason they couldn't have incorporated some of these interesting mechanics but to a lesser degree in the strikes and story missions.

 

[erragal]

Agree.

But there is no way in Destiny to make friends cause you can't talk to people like in normal MMO's.

You can't just add random ppl to your friendslist on a console and send them text messages after playing a random mission with them?

This is how I met every person and every guild in any mmo ever.

They probably could have gone with a text chat system in game tbh...use pre-made word bubbles pso style for common responses and allowed for post mission longer messages.

 

[KiefbladeMaster]

Gun damage ans gear defense do not matter in PVP (except Iron Banner, which has not started yet). You get crushed because other players kill you first. No armor keeps you alive faster. All that change are your subclass skills. Even then, I do not know how skills that raise armor, recovery, or agility work. Either way, as long as you are like around level 12, you would have those. What's wrong with this fairly balancing design? I went into PVP at level 5 and held my own against players 20+. Their insane armor dies to my gun just like a level 1 player.

This. Tired of seeing people complain the pvp is unbalanced just cause they're having a hard time.

 

[Sketchbag]

GAF would prefer you be able to group 6 randoms at level 20, jump on his head 3 times and he dies in an explosion of legendaries and exotics. People who want this should just play WoW, "raiding" is already like this and its a joke.

To be fair, raiding in WoW is only a joke in gear and content alone. Raiding in WoW is extremely difficult in heroic (which a lot of people don't even complete unless it's a previous expansion's raid or have the buff they give out near the end).

 

[Ramocalypse]

You can't just add random ppl to your friendslist on a console and send them text messages after playing a random mission with them?

This is how I met every person and every guild in any mmo ever.

They probably could have gone with a text chat system in game tbh...use pre-made word bubbles pso style for common responses and allowed for post mission longer messages.

Kind of a PIA without a keyboard. But yeah with a little effort you can build a list of people to play with.

 

[Jarate]

What random people? It's just as unlikely that someone starts the event and doesn't finish as one of my friends would. Everyone is in the mindset to complete it when they start, then if something comes up they have to quit. It's no different.

You will be surprised at how absolutely inept people are at mmo raids. If the content is hard, and there is a raid finder, you will have people freak out at the inept people and the inept people freaking out at other inept people.

It absolutely creates toxic environment

 

[Stone Ocean]

This raid looks pretty fucking cool, actually.

Maybe Destiny won't take as much fixing to be good as I thought.

 

[erragal]

And wildstar is dead. Not really a coincidence. And just because someone does something worse than you doesn't make what you're doing any better.

And honestly you can't compare this to a PC mmo, it's easy to join pugs or guilds or w/e for raids/dungs w/e because you have zone chat or w/e and can use text communication.

In destiny you can't.

Well I'm not saying what Wildstar did was smart. They tried to conflate hardcore with mind/time destroying and failrd to realize the legacy mmo audience doesn't have 13 hours a day; while the kids that do have 13 hours a day have different reward feedback patterns. So apparent when you're doing first heroic dungeons and people rxpect you to already be an expert because they only accept epics (Never mind their loot system allowed for blues to be bis with the proper rune setups especially pre-raid)

I agree that the chat setup is a horrible system. However consoles have ways to randomly talk to people you just played with. I imagine that was the expectation from Bungie...seems like that puts too much onus on the player and friendslist privacy/caution is far higher than they expected.

 

[Wallach]

Bahroo's team figured out the primary mechanic of the first phase. Seems like a cool fight.

 

[Saganator]

Can't believe so many people expect to see end-game content after just a week. The only people expected to be at 26+ at this point are the hard core people who can spend 30+ hours playing the game a week. I'd be pretty let down if all it took to reach the end game was 15-20 hours. I'm supposed to be playing this game for months, not a couple weeks.

 

[TheExecutive]

It also requires six players, and remember: all must be friends; there's no matchmaking for the raid.

THIS IS FUCKING STUPID.

Sorry- but it is. What is the point behind the decision? To force you to add people to your friends list? And 6 people at once? GTFO Bungie.

 

[Messofanego]

http://www.twitch.tv/admiral_bahroo

Blinded by the light!

 

[MaximusPayne]

Unfortunately for now, either you need to pick up some more people on your friends list (via GAF seems like a good idea) or pick up some people from the Tower...

It is a weird thing, honestly. I don't understand the clan system in this. It would make raiding a bit easier, as you'd be able to group up with clan mates much more easily...

Until they add matchmaking, these are our only options though, sadly.

Honestly, though. I don't have a problem with the six player requirement, but it's going to be hard to have the same six people to try and get together like that continuously for the mission. I would love to play this part of the game when I get to level 26, but even if I do get six friends who pick up Destiny, the time when they are all on and playing at the same time will be almost impossible.

 

[Ramocalypse]

Damn, seriously it looks like all the cool gameplay design effort went into the raid mechanics. Where the hell was this stuff in the main game bungie?

 

[Dragon]

Lvl 26 -_-

I'm Lvl 23! You'll get there!

 

[oti]

Really liked the platforming part. Looked pretty cool.

 

[erragal]

Kind of a PIA without a keyboard. But yeah with a little effort you can build a list of people to play with.

Well that's the real truth: this game would be vastly improved on the correct platform.

It's a fair point though it requires active effort. What I noticed in Wildstar was the younger players really expected content to occur automatically. There's a generation gap between the way game designers socialized and how people now expect to socialize due to the inundation of automated systems. It's going to be interesting to see how games adapt. It's definitely the waning days of the traditional mmo social structures however.

 

[Ken]

Can't believe so many people expect to see end-game content after just a week. The only people expected to be at 26+ at this point are the hard core people who can spend 30+ hours playing the game a week.

I have 47 hours in the game since before reset and I'm not able to do the raid because RNG gave me nothing.

 

[Reedirect]

It should absolutely have matchmaking. No in-game voice chat (with the exception of your Fireteam consisting mostly of people you've met before playing Destiny, random people won't just join it that easily), no hub where people could easily get together and set out to do it. It's fine that Bungie wants to play it straight, but meeting people in Destiny is already so incredibly clumsy, that going here or to Bungie.net to find people to do it might be your only choice.

 

[DarthWalden]

Agree.

But there is no way in Destiny to make friends cause you can't talk to people like in normal MMO's.

Yup, destiny is sorely lacking any time of in game communication as well as in game clan support.

 

[Heroman]

Can't believe so many people expect to see end-game content after just a week. The only people expected to be at 26+ at this point are the hard core people who can spend 30+ hours playing the game a week. I'd be pretty let down if all it took to reach the end game was 15-20 hours. I'm supposed to be playing this game for months, not a couple weeks.

It not my fault that this game has so little content. And it not even hard to get to level 20.

 

[Bizazedo]

Lol at 6 people and no matchmaking. Also remember them saying it will take a couple of hours to get through. How the fuck do you coordinate 6 friends who have that much time free and get them all together consistently. I see a trade in in the near future.

We did it with 72 people in other games "back in the day".

Raid still has no story though

That was my next question, what's the Lore behind the Vault of Glass?

THIS IS FUCKING STUPID.

Sorry- but it is. What is the point behind the decision? To force you to add people to your friends list? And 6 people at once? GTFO Bungie.

Again, we used to do things like this with 72 people (well, some bots ). You're going to have to make more friends.

I do find this experiment of having the FPS crowd meet MMO raid mechanics fascinating, though.

 

[Kingbrave]

Can't believe so many people expect to see end-game content after just a week. The only people expected to be at 26+ at this point are the hard core people who can spend 30+ hours playing the game a week. I'd be pretty let down if all it took to reach the end game was 15-20 hours. I'm supposed to be playing this game for months, not a couple weeks.

Yeah, this. The game has been out a week and everyone expects to go in and finish the raid the first day it pops up.