ffejeromdiks
Banned
Are you dense? I was talking about THIS raid. No fuckin' shit you can play with randoms in a 40 man raid.
Destiny's Raid, 'Vault of Glass' is now available to play. Hardest challenge yet.
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Are you dense? I was talking about THIS raid. No fuckin' shit you can play with randoms in a 40 man raid.
Air Zombie Meat
Member
So now it's an mmo again?
From what ive seen it's very hard to disagree with any of this.
Yes but the 'raid' matchmaking is an insanely nerfed version of the real raid so that all the baddies and casuals can experience the bosses and story.
Here's how I look at it: Random group members are how you meet people. How you *start* the process towards making the sort of bonds required for this raid. If there's obstacles to that first step, that's going to create problems down the line.
Would we be having quite the same discussion if people had been able to form lasting relationships with other players over the past week of playing Destiny due to the communication functionality being up to scratch? For those of you lamenting not being able to put together a team of six: How many people have you played with on your way to the stage you're at now who you've had to completely discard forever as soon as you left the group, without any system to cement that teamwork for future plans?
Yes. People defending Bungie's 2005 approach to raids/instances are hilariously out of touch. Almost as out of touch as Bungie since they built an entire game around out-dated mechanics.
Sure you can. Blizzard is reintroducing a 40 man raid for the 10 year anniversary of WoW. And it will allow randoms, just like all their other raids.
Of course it will... which is why finding people on a forum is BETTER than using MM, not the same. However, it is STILL not the way they've advised you to form raid groups. That's all I'm saying.
Yes you can do it this way, but it's not the same thing as finding randoms in MM... and STILL, either way, it's not a good method to picking up a group for raids.
People just keep saying "but I can pick up randoms on GAF, it's the same thing as doing MM!" First, no it isn't and second, they don't want you doing this either!
The_Almighty_Swan
Banned
Can't wait to try this out with some buddies... Looks great..
You say that now. But what happens after 20-30 attempts and you still can't beat the first boss? Are you still going to be enjoying that? Or are you going to be complaining that it's impossible?
What happens when you are efficient at killing the first 3 bosses and you know each fight well, but every random you get with still can't figure out the first boss. Are you going to drop out after a few wipes?
I know this is a difficult concept for non mmo raiders to grasp, but this kind of stuff isn't something you do with randoms. You build a team, and you meet up with that team a few nights a week and try to progress further in your raid session for the week. That's what this content is designed for.
Arkage
Banned
Do I need to post the whydontwehaveboth.jpeg? If the majority of Bungies time post-game is going to spent doing elaborate, lengthy raids that only a small handful of people can play, that's pretty shit. It's incredibly easy to nerf the thing for MM groups while keeping the high difficulty (and greater rewards) in place for those players that go through it as an elite group.
WoW also have raid difficulty levels. Automatic raid finder difficulty level is balanced to be less demanding that normal or heroic difficulty. Rewards are also less good. But at least, everybody can see the content.
LyleLanley
Banned
That sounds great and is exactly what I want in Destiny. Let the hardcore crowd have their fun playing week long raids that get them high end loot and what not while I get to experience a much easier version of it with some random people.
For clarity's benefit: WoW's random raid matchmaking system leads into a much simpler version of the raid; one for sightseeing and basic loot, but not with the challenge of the higher difficulties.
Yes, it's very inclusive so that all people paying for the game can experience all of the content. A concept completely lost on Bungie.
What happens when you do this with people you know? Does your friendship have priority over boorish mechanics meant to waste time? At least with randoms I can drop and look for a better group instead of being stuck to a perpetual group of fails.
HUGE mistake on Bungie's part for not having a nerfed raid matchmaking version. I use raid finder in WOW all the time and it is the only I get to experience all of the content. WOW did this years ago and I'm surprised Bungie didn't have this ready immediately.
Actually, I'm a WoW raider. Not top tier, sure, but I've done my share of heroics and I know what it takes. I totally agree with you, real raids absolutely cannot be done with strangers. But at least WoW gives you ways to communicate ingame. You can meet people, make friends, have a guild you can talk to. You can make this shit work. Destiny doesn't give you those tools. What I'm saying is, you either need content that randoms can tackle, or better ways to socialize. Destiny have none.
I would like Destiny to adopt this. I just wanna play it without scheduling with people.
NullPointer
Member
I really don't understand where fairness comes into it. I'm sure Digital Extremes would have loved to have a 500 million dollar investment and six years of development from a 400+ person team too.
Regardless, people have choices and there are alternatives with more variety. People can judge for themselves.
Netherscourge
Banned
Is it a sectional raid? (ie. -save points? Can they reassemble tomorrow and continue from where they left off?)
Also - does it have a lockout timer of some sort? If they beat a boss, are they locked out of it for a couple days?
Just curious how Bungie designed it.
These people can't accept that. They feel they are entitled to all content in a game. It's a sin for a game to design content for different types of gamers.
Yes to both. It saves, and the lockout resets every Tuesday on downed bosses.
I am perversely enjoying the sight of people who've never experienced a raid environment watching this. I am also chuckling at people complaining about not having 5 friends when they're posting on a messageboard that probably has over a 1000 people who play. A little motivation and groups, hell, clans could be formed.
Don't understate it. LFR is for people who have zero time or can barely put together coherent sentences.
This is Destiny's one great sin, though. Well-said.
Netherscourge
Banned
It's not big enough to be called Massively. 6 players is in no way considered MASSIVE in 2014.
It's a MOFPS, not an MMOFPS.
Netherscourge
Banned
Ok. Also - are you locked into the group you started with? Or does it only lock you to individual boss kills?
(ie, you can go back with a different group and help them kill a boss you already downed this week. You just don't get anymore drops until the weekly reset)
?
Someone posted it's tied to the Team Leader.
The money invested has nothing to do with it, money doesn't prevent you from adding variety... creativity does. The only real difference between the two in that regard is polish.
Again: comparing the two in this way is ridiculous.
Anyway, the point is WF isn't more varied in any way that's actually meaningful because you're still engaged in the same combat over and over with a slightly different objective each time.
Rodney McKay
Member
If only Bungie was capable of making multiple difficulty settings for their games so that people of different skill levels could still enjoy the entire game...
CassidyIzABeast
Member
What hour is this for Atheon? like 3? I'm not about that raid life.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I feel this is the problem most ppl are having.
I don't feel that a lot of people bought this with the idea endgame would be like a MMO-lite hardcore raids you find in other MMO, which requires several hours of dedication, friends and a tight schedule. At least in a MMO you know what you're signing for.
You definitely aren't wrong there. There needs to be better in game communication and at the very least more clan functionality in game.
I thought you owned destiny?
i think it only locks the group leader's progress.
FaintDeftone
Junior Member
How about instead of telling players they can't complete raids with matchmaking, we at least give them the opportunity to try. I'm sure there are some matchmaking groups that will succeed. It may be rare, but it isn't impossible.
TheRedSnifit
Member
Depends. It's a loot game unless it's being compared to Borderlands, an MMO unless it's being compared to WoW, and a shooter unless it's being compared to Halo. Anything to avoid negative comparisons.
SketchTheArtist
Member
Can we have a thread for people who play and enjoy Destiny? All the threads right now are 3/4 filled with people who complain about the game and most of them don't even have the game. It's so annoying.
CosmicQueso
Member
A game marketed to sell to the millions of the masses, a game designed to be enjoyed only by the minuscule minority that can dedicate the time to get to level 25+ and have a large group of friends that can do the same.
Gross.
I'm enjoying playing with my two friends that also play, but if the game isn't supposed to really be enjoyed until after level 20, I guess I'm going to be missing a bunch of it. Bums me out.
Gross.
I'm enjoying playing with my two friends that also play, but if the game isn't supposed to really be enjoyed until after level 20, I guess I'm going to be missing a bunch of it. Bums me out.
Level 24 CAN do the raids too... I'm on 24 and it says: "VERY HARD" but I can enter.
that is what the OT is for. Though most talk seems to be loot related.
MWS Natural
Member
Yes you seem to be as I was agreeing with you.
Raid life is a lot harder than I think a lot of people expect.
It's too early to say about Destiny, but in WoW my group would meet two nights a week and play for 3-4 hours straight. And there are plenty of nights where we couldn't kill a boss. That's 3-4 hours of dying on the same encounter twice a week until your group finally figures it out.
Who knows if Destiny will be that intense, but from hearing Luke Smith talk about Destiny's raids, it sounds like that's what they were shooting for.
NullPointer
Member
As opposed to Destiny where you have two possible objectives - Kill Boss X - and Defend Position X - along with a few missions where you might get to do both.
If Destiny's raids really blow that formula open then its a shame that the mode is only going to be played by to a small segment of the playerbase.
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