Support NeoGAF

[xbhaskarx]

First of all, you're a loyalist scum, I spit on you.

But more importantly, just stick the Welsh flag there somewhere, just put enough dragons until it's awesome.

1. I am American so pretty much as far from Loyalist as it gets.

2. I do however appreciate a well designed flag. The UK flag is great, and the Welsh flag is great. That doesn't mean the UK flag would look good with dragons. The Welsh can have their independence based on the quality of their flag but Scotland must remain part of the UK to avoid one awesome flag turning into two mediocre ones.

So what do people think the new flag will look like

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/scotland-independence-poll-new-united-4210039

Not sure I like any of the new designs. :/

That is absolutely f'ing horrific... please vote no everyone.

 

[Chichikov]

That's the fully state owned Nowegian oil?

You can't have an oil fund AND maintain/increase spending when that oil money is already being spent.

Unless Salmond has discovered a way to spend the same money twice?

Norwegian oil companies are not state owned.

Also, Scotland is much smaller than the UK, so that money would go farther there, not to mention that they're less likely to use it to fight stupid wars and tax cuts for rich people.

1. I am American so pretty much as far from Loyalist as it gets.

Sounds like something one of the bad guys in The Patriot would say.
Chris Cooper maybe?
I don't know, I haven't seen it, but I know a Benedict Arnold when I see one.

 

[Walshicus]

That's the fully state owned Nowegian oil?

You can't have an oil fund AND maintain/increase spending when that oil money is already being spent.

Unless Salmond has discovered a way to spend the same money twice?

Yes, but much of that oil is being spent outside of Scotland.

 

[Dr Zhivago]

Best flag is the one that won the Grauniad poll:
http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...2/scottish-independence-new-british-flag-poll

 

[QuicheFontaine]

Best flag is the one that won the Grauniad poll:
http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...2/scottish-independence-new-british-flag-poll

It looks kind of...evil.

 

[RulkezX]

Norwegian oil companies are not state owned.

Also, Scotland is much smaller than the UK, so that money would go farther there, not to mention that they're less likely to use it to fight stupid wars and tax cuts for rich people.
.

Oil revenues would make up 15% of Scottish GDP. The money is already being spent, they're wouldn't be a surplus to form a sovereign oil fund.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

It looks kind of...evil.

You say that but some people still remember racists chanting that there ain't no black in the union jack.

 

[speculawyer]

Norwegian oil companies are not state owned.

Also, Scotland is much smaller than the UK, so that money would go farther there, not to mention that they're less likely to use it to fight stupid wars and tax cuts for rich people.


Sounds like something one of the bad guys in The Patriot would say.
Chris Cooper maybe?
I don't know, I haven't seen it, but I know a Benedict Arnold when I see one.

Wat?

As of 2013, the Government of Norway is the largest shareholder in Statoil with 67% of the shares, while the rest is public stock. The ownership interest is managed by the Norwegian Ministry of Petroleum and Energy.[5] The company is headquartered and led from Stavanger, while most of their international operations are currently led from Fornebu.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statoil

 

[Timbuktu]

Best flag is the one that won the Grauniad poll:
http://www.theguardian.com/artandde...2/scottish-independence-new-british-flag-poll

The black in the flag neatly captures this ambivalence by giving a sense of losing Scotland being mourned, while at the same time suggesting that we've barely noticed. (As Jack McGruer and many others said, it also stops the old fascist chant that there "ain't no black in the union jack".)

Surely the black can be argued to represent Cornwall right?

 

[nelsonroyale]

Wat?



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statoil

Well, they have majority voting rights, but it isn't solely government owned...

 

[Ashes]

I'm pretty sure Scotland will not let the oil companies fuck them in the ass like the English.

Scotland has a similar population as Norway and they have comparable oil reserves.
This worked pretty damn well for Norway.

Norway is an interesting case. It has debts of about $700bn. And their oil fuelled pension fund has about $900bn [it's more illusionary than anything. But even if it's not money in the bank by any means, it's still the envy of most sovereign nations]. And the government works on the assumption that it has about 50 years of oil left.

A post oil Norway is going to be interesting. Especially with their high cost of living.

But the oil markets are currently being quite peculiar. Even with all the middle eastern tensions, as well as the Russia/Ukraine/EU situation, the prices are hovering around $100 a barrel:

The Scottish government is assuming that energy-related tax revenue will recover to the annual range of £6 billion to £8 billion.

But those estimates assume oil prices of $110 a barrel. That could prove too optimistic, as expanding energy production in the United States is putting downward pressure on world prices. Oil prices are hovering around $100 a barrel.

 

[Masquerader]

Has Cameron helped or hindered the cause for 'no'?

 

[CyclopsRock]

My father ran a small manufacturing company. He was really annoyed by the all the strikes but in the Thatcher era he had to close up and try to get any job he could. He didn't have to worry about strikes but he also didn't have to worry about running his own business. Thatcher just wiped away all sorts of worries and concerns. Many manufacturing businesses would have been viable in the long term but Thatchers short term economic "shock" policies forced them to close their doors.

No doubt; There were drawbacks. I don't think it's possible to radically re-align an economy without that happening.

 

[Arksy]

Question;

What happens to all the non-Scottish people in Scotland if they vote yes? Do they become Scottish citizens? From the polls it looks like a tight vote, 50% of people want to remain a part of the UK...will there be large scale emigration?

 

[nelsonroyale]

who writes this shit?

Reasonably intelligent, highly cynical people. It is basically like junk food, full of all sorts of nasty crap that is designed burrow through into the minds of those with weak critical faculties. Stuff like the Telegraph does the same for those who are wealthier, more comfortable and either equally ignorant or positively cynical. It is my grandfather's rag.

Norway is an interesting country. It was pretty damn poor and expensive as little as 40 years ago. Even in 1998 the GDP per capita was around $38,000...Now it is $100,000. Scotland could probably be somewhere between Finland and Norway in the first 25 years of independence.

 

[RulkezX]

Has Cameron helped or hindered the cause for 'no'?

The Tories being in power has probably hindered it. There are a lot of people not even born in the 70's who hate the Tories because their parents do.

 

[Casimir]

So what do people think the new flag will look like

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/scotland-independence-poll-new-united-4210039

Not sure I like any of the new designs. :/

While it originally has older origins, I don't think it would be wise to mimic the Nazi flag color scheme.

 

[nelsonroyale]

The Tories being in power has probably hindered it. There are a lot of people not even born in the 70's who hate the Tories because their parents do.

Eh and there are a lot of people in Scotland who still bang on about Labour just because their parents do...Party affiliation grates me. Politics shouldn't be like voting for your favourite football team...

 

[More Fun To Compute]

No doubt; There were drawbacks. I don't think it's possible to radically re-align an economy without that happening.

You say that like they knew what they were doing and that the drawbacks were all according to plan. What they did was very inefficient and ham fisted. It was like the nuclear option and the price still has still not been paid in terms of cleaning up fallout. The union dissolving is one step. Dealing with the housing and financial bubbles is another step that is so devastating it is hoped it can just be kicked down the road indefinitely.

 

[QuicheFontaine]

You say that but some people still remember racists chanting that there ain't no black in the union jack.

Lol, good point! Checkmate racists.

I still think it looks like some emblem the baddies would use on a Saturday morning cartoon show though.

 

[liquidtmd]

Has Cameron helped or hindered the cause for 'no'?

I thought his "This referendum is not the same as thinking 'I'll give the Tories an 'effing kicking' in an election" speech was pretty well considered and thoughtful.

 

[daviyoung]

Question;

What happens to all the non-Scottish people in Scotland if they vote yes? Do they become Scottish citizens? From the polls it looks like a tight vote, 50% of people want to remain a part of the UK...will there be large scale emigration?

not sure if citizenship has been thought about it in any depth

 

[Waaghals]

Well, they have majority voting rights, but it isn't solely government owned...

Statoil was created by the Norwegian government. It's literally in the name.

 

[Masquerader]

I thought his "This referendum is not the same as thinking 'I'll give the Tories an 'effing kicking' in an election" speech was pretty well considered and thoughtful.

Yes~! Although the media calling it an 'Impassioned Plea' made me giggle a bit.

The Tories being in power has probably hindered it. There are a lot of people not even born in the 70's who hate the Tories because their parents do.

While I do have a modest hatred of the Tories, I am inclined to agree with you. At best, they should be judged on what they are doing, rather than what they have done in the past.

In the past, they were bastards. Now, they're merely not very nice at all.

 

[neoanarch]

So even with a "yes" win, a majority of Scotland would like to keep the monarchy? Am I understanding that right? Weird, come on Scotland its 2014.

 

[SKINNER!]

Eh and there are a lot of people in Scotland who still bang on about Labour just because their parents do...Party affiliation grates me. Politics shouldn't be like voting for your favourite football team...

The Tories being in power has probably hindered it. There are a lot of people not even born in the 70's who hate the Tories because their parents do.

Whether it's Scots who hate the Tories because of Thatcher or Scots who hate Labour because of Blair and the Iraq War, tomorrow's vote is pretty much a decision on whether to be governed by twats in London or twats in Edinburgh...tough choice...could go either way....but there can only be one.

 

[nelsonroyale]

Statoil was created by the Norwegian government. It's literally in the name.

It is shareholder driven with the government holding 67% of stocks. A good approach.

Neonanarch: Maybe...Hopefully that is the next step. Another big drain on the public purse.

 

[Walshicus]

not sure if citizenship has been thought about it in any depth

I think most people assume it will be an Ireland situation. UK law states that Irish are not foreigners.

 

[kmag]

not sure if citizenship has been thought about it in any depth

The white paper states the following:

 

[MilkyJoe]

I think most people assume it will be an Ireland situation. UK law states that Irish are not foreigners.

Aye I took a flight from Dublin to London last week, they ushered us around Passport Control and out the front door. Which I thought was strange considering there was a US national on the flight.

 

[Ashes]

Question;

What happens to all the non-Scottish people in Scotland if they vote yes? Do they become Scottish citizens? From the polls it looks like a tight vote, 50% of people want to remain a part of the UK...will there be large scale emigration?

The referendum will only inform the government of the country's wishes. The actual separation is reliant on a vast number of difficult negotiations including border controls, EU membership, the Schengen agreement, the CTA amongst other things.

Independence day is seemingly set for around March.

The Scottish government says people resident in Scotland will become Scottish citizens, and that UK passports would work until expiry (I think).

The UK Government says it's a bit more complicated than that.

Scotland would suffer quite a bit if people who voted no, moved. Hopefully it doesn't happen. And I don't think it will happen.

 

[Ghost]

Love that people think Cameron actually wants Scotland in the Union, with Scotland out, we are doomed to a Tory majority for the next 10 years at least, he shows up in Scotland periodically to threaten them and remind them how much they hate him under the veil of campaigning for a no vote.

 

[JonathanEx]

It's all over, some guy's mate has called it for yes. https://twitter.com/Emrod_lives/status/512137749668044800

Only a breach of electoral law but HEY.

 

[jimbor]

Love that people think Cameron actually wants Scotland in the Union, with Scotland out, we are doomed to a Tory majority for the next 10 years at least, he shows up in Scotland periodically to threaten them and remind them how much they hate him under the veil of campaigning for a no vote.

Love how people keep repeating this bullshit about us being doomed with a tory government without the Scots.

 

[Wrestlemania]

Love that people think Cameron actually wants Scotland in the Union, with Scotland out, we are doomed to a Tory majority for the next 10 years at least, he shows up in Scotland periodically to threaten them and remind them how much they hate him under the veil of campaigning for a no vote.

This is not true.

 

[speculawyer]

I think this whole thing is about this rant from Trainspotting.

 

[SKINNER!]

It's all over, some guy's mate has called it for yes. https://twitter.com/Emrod_lives/status/512137749668044800

Only a breach of electoral law but HEY.

Laughing hard at Michael's comments thinking he's done nothing wrong. Definitely trolling and Martin bought it.

 

[Ghost]

I think it's definitely true when you combine the numbers with the politics.

Without Scotland now the Tories would have an overall majority of 21, meaning no coalition.

Its true that Blair won more than enough seats to not have to worry about Scotland, but you have to remember the massive step to the right Labour took to achieve that, there isn't enough space between the parties for Labour to make another step like that, and there aren't enough truly left wing people left in the country for them to win any other way.

 

[CyclopsRock]

You say that like they knew what they were doing and that the drawbacks were all according to plan. What they did was very inefficient and ham fisted. It was like the nuclear option and the price still has still not been paid in terms of cleaning up fallout. The union dissolving is one step. Dealing with the housing and financial bubbles is another step that is so devastating it is hoped it can just be kicked down the road indefinitely.

I don't think it was part of the plan, but I also don't think they expected it all to be fine. The kind of change Thatcher made, though, couldn't really be made in half measures. Like I said, I think her biggest mistake was not tapering the reduction in jobs in mines and industry, but in reality that sort of tapering happens naturally in industries that become gradually less profitable; Unfortunately, the industries were subsidised to the point that any removal of the subsidy would kick the legs out from the entire thing. It shouldn't have been allowed to get into that position in the first place, but since it was, she should have slowly removed the subsidy, not all at once - then businesses like your father's might have survived. But for the other stuff - union busting, privatisation etc, you can't do these things by half measures. So the question still remains whether, when you look at how we were in the 70's, would we be better off now if she had been PM, or if she hadn't? Obviously I know what I think.

 

[Ashes]

I think it's definitely true when you combine the numbers with the politics.

Without Scotland now the Tories would have an overall majority of 21, meaning no coalition.

Its true that Blair won more than enough seats to not have to worry about Scotland, but you have to remember the massive step to the right Labour took to achieve that, there isn't enough space between the parties for Labour to make another step like that, and there aren't enough truly left wing people left in the country for them to win any other way.

You are operating on the principle that the Lib Dems will do as well as they did last time. Polls suggest Labour is on course for winning the election.

 

[SlickShoes]

It's all over, some guy's mate has called it for yes. https://twitter.com/Emrod_lives/status/512137749668044800

Only a breach of electoral law but HEY.

Love how the responses are "yes campaign leaking confidential information" when it's one guy on twitter with a yes badge that could easily make the whole thing up.

 

[JonathanEx]

Laughing hard at Michael's comments thinking he's done nothing wrong. Definitely trolling and Martin bought it.

It's fucking hilarious.

 

[More Fun To Compute]

I don't think it was part of the plan, but I also don't think they expected it all to be fine. The kind of change Thatcher made, though, couldn't really be made in half measures. Like I said, I think her biggest mistake was not tapering the reduction in jobs in mines and industry, but in reality that sort of tapering happens naturally in industries that become gradually less profitable; Unfortunately, the industries were subsidised to the point that any removal of the subsidy would kick the legs out from the entire thing. It shouldn't have been allowed to get into that position in the first place, but since it was, she should have slowly removed the subsidy, not all at once - then businesses like your father's might have survived. But for the other stuff - union busting, privatisation etc, you can't do these things by half measures. So the question still remains whether, when you look at how we were in the 70's, would we be better off now if she had been PM, or if she hadn't? Obviously I know what I think.

The way I look at it they made large changes that they didn't understand then there was a quiet panic and reversal when they realised that their ideas were terrible. Could there have been another way of dealing with modernising the UK other than letting the unions start a communist revolution? I think so, maybe.

 

[Busty]

Here are some rumbling rumbles that happen to rumbling around Glasgow at the moment, rumble, rumble.

Please take all of them with a grain of salt the size of your head as I (naturally) won't be providing sources.

-- Apparently The Sun will come out in favour of independence by declaring 'Yes!' on their cover tomorrow morning. I believe that this will be the Yes campaigns secret last salvo to soak up some of the undecided working class vote..., or something.

-- BBC Scotland employees are being quietly (and unofficially) told not to come into work on Friday if the 'No vote' wins. Apparently they are expecting a severe backlash from the hardcore YES supporters if the No vote wins and they are assuming that they will be the target of another angry protest on the 19th.

-- Apparently the Better Together have one last bombshell to unleash either late tonight or early tomorrow. This could of course all be bluster but they have (again apparently) had a campaign of anti Yes stories lined up for weeks with the 'climax' coming right before the vote itself. No idea what it is but it's supposed 'huge'.


It is, what it is.

 

[Ghost]

You are operating on the principle that the Lib Dems will do as well as they did last time. Polls suggest Labour is on course for winning the election.

The polls (which all include Scotland as far as I'm aware) give Labour a 3% lead over the tories, but they also give UKIP 15%, which will at best lead to a hung parliaments (Because even if labour get the 35% they are predicted, there will be no lib dems left for them to form a coalition with) and at worst (and most likely) a left wing coalition that's committed to an EU referendum.

 

[liquidtmd]

-- Apparently the Better Together have one last bombshell to unleash either late tonight or early tomorrow. This could of course all be bluster but they have (again apparently) had a campaign of anti Yes stories lined up for weeks with the 'climax' coming right before the vote itself. No idea what it is but it's supposed 'huge'..

Please be excited

 

[Nicktendo86]

In general, Thatcher's policies smashed the poor and working class hardest across Britain. But I'm glad your parents did well. I'm sure if you cherry pick you could find even more success stories.



Pity Thatcher didn't understand the value of something beyond it's monetary cost.

Shame labour did the same as they closed more pits than the Tories, but hey ho Tories = evil huh.

 

[8bit]

-- Apparently the Better Together have one last bombshell to unleash either late tonight or early tomorrow. This could of course all be bluster but they have (again apparently) had a campaign of anti Yes stories lined up for weeks with the 'climax' coming right before the vote itself. No idea what it is but it's supposed 'huge'.


It is, what it is.

After trumpeting David Beckham as relevant, I don't think I'd expect much.

 

[JonnyBrad]

Here are some rumbling rumbles that happen to rumbling around Glasgow at the moment, rumble, rumble.

Please take all of them with a grain of salt the size of your head as I (naturally) won't be providing sources.

-- Apparently The Sun will come out in favour of independence by declaring 'Yes!' on their cover tomorrow morning. I believe that this will be the Yes campaigns secret last salvo to soak up some of the undecided working class vote..., or something.

-- BBC Scotland employees are being quietly (and unofficially) told not to come into work on Friday if the 'No vote' wins. Apparently they are expecting a severe backlash from the hardcore YES supporters if the No vote wins and they are assuming that they will be the target of another angry protest on the 19th.

-- Apparently the Better Together have one last bombshell to unleash either late tonight or early tomorrow. This could of course all be bluster but they have (again apparently) had a campaign of anti Yes stories lined up for weeks with the 'climax' coming right before the vote itself. No idea what it is but it's supposed 'huge'.


It is, what it is.

Murdoch has bottled it the Sun won't be coming out for Yes. He only backs winners and right now he can't be sure of which way the vote will be.

 

[RulkezX]

Love how the responses are "yes campaign leaking confidential information" when it's one guy on twitter with a yes badge that could easily make the whole thing up.

He could easily be telling the truth.