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[Abusive_Red]

I'm certain, that even if we could Raid in the same difficulty at LV5, it still wouldn't make many of us enjoy the game any more.

And that's exactly why reviewers can basically say that Destiny endgame is not worth playing towards if the journey there is kinda pants.

I don't think you can honestly say that without playing it. It really is a different animal than anything else in the game. There are way more game mechanics in play than anywhere else in the game. Its obviously where they shot their creative load. Aren't you curious at all?

 

[RSB]

The jetpack Cabal are the only ones I'd even nod to if I saw them in the street. Their jump looks great, and the oil spouting headshot death is so satisfying. The other enemies though? Nothing special, and some like the Fallen Wizards and groups of Knights boarder on annoying. "Generic, lacking in personality, and incredibly dull" is a line I'd lob at like 95% of the enemies and encounters in this game. One Brute riding a chopper across a sand dune is worth 100 Vex.

Yep, the Cabal are the only enemies that are kinda interesting to fight. The fact that they are similar (mechanically) to both the brutes (jetpacks) and the jackals (shields) from Halo, helps, I'm sure. Anyway, the covenant were just way more fight to fun, and they had (at least some) personality. The encounters themselves were also WAY better designed in the Halo games. Hell, most encounters in Halo 3 have more depth and variety than Destiny (the whole game)

 

[Synth]

How so? Somebody was comparing Uncharted to Destiny and said he/she preferred the former over the later. I quoted him/her and said I find myself in the opposite camp (though I don't know why we were comparing Uncharted to Destiny in the first place...), and explained my reasoning.

Where does the "defense" come in? I just gave my opinion on a comparison.

I brought Uncharted up. I was saying that if you removed the story and set pieces from the original Uncharted the game would be significantly worse. It was in response to the tweets about a good game not requiring story.

It all kinda snowballed from there unfortunately.

 

[marianitten]

Damn.. so many absurds comparisons and nobody bring Bioshock: Inifine?

 

[Izuna]

IGN all these reviews are a joke because:

IGN
8.9 TitanFall
7.8 Destiny

Polygon
9/10 Titanfall
6/10 Destiny

It's obvious to most Destiny is a better game than Titanfall. How can anyone trust reviews?

a.... heh

Okay. From your words, tell me why. Is there any part of gameplay or hell story is told that is better in Destiny over Titanfall? If so list me reasons.

Because apart from music (which imo is comparable at times) and graphics/setting, Titanfall trumps the online only grindfest with meh PvP Destiny.

 

[bananafactory]

I don't think you can honestly say that without playing it. It really is a different animal than anything else in the game. There are way more game mechanics in play than anywhere else in the game. Its obviously where they shot their creative load. Aren't you curious at all?

If that's where all their efforts went, it's a ridiculously dumb decision to put it where no one but the most committed of players will find it.

 

[Gestault]

IGN all these reviews are a joke because:

IGN
8.9 TitanFall
7.8 Destiny

Polygon
9/10 Titanfall
6/10 Destiny

It's obvious to most Destiny is a better game than Titanfall. How can anyone trust reviews?

Is it obvious? In terms of what people wanted and expected out of each, these don't seem so crazy that's I'd make a categorical statement like that. If you're seeing similar reactions across the board, I'd say it's more likely to be because that's how reviewers/players are feeling, rather than "it's bullshit for some reason." How another game is reviewed has nothing to do with the validity of Destiny scores.

 

[The Librarian]

I brought Uncharted up. I was saying that if you removed the story and set pieces from the original Uncharted the game would be significantly worse. It was in response to the tweets about a good game not requiring story.

I...agree with this.

 

[Abusive_Red]

No, and if it requires grinding I won't play it. I don't grind in games - period. I'll play through each mission and strike once, then I'm done. If I still can't do the raid at that point, then that's a shame.

Its a shame you won't get to play it then, it's really amazing. Cheers.

 

[Net_Wrecker]

The fact that this game doesn't rely heavily on cover but movement, has four different alien races (at times fighting each other and you in three-way battles), ludicrous feedback, doesn't have you fighting humans of some kind – all traits of which make it already a different AAA game without bringing in encounter design – has me heavily disagreeing with that statement.

Movement is never truly in the spotlight because you need to aim down the sights for maximum accuracy, 3 way encounters are never really taken advantage of because there's no mission design that makes an interesting scenario out of it, hit feedback is hugely overrated since nearly all of the higher level enemies walk around with 3 layers of shields + all the bosses are terrible, and these aliens aren't given any more personality than the mutated humans of something like Infamous: Second Son. Hell, it's not even about them being "generic" anyway. I played Wolfenstein: TNO earlier this year and had more fun against hoards of faceless Nazis, possibly the most generic shooter enemy in existence, than against any of the 4 races in Destiny with the exception of the jetpack Cabal. The problem falls at the feet of the mission and encounter design. The pieces are all here, but none of them are put together in a compelling way.

Like I said before, one Brute riding a chopper is worth a hundred Vex. I remember playing Halo 3 on Legendary and being terrorized by a group of Brute Choppers doing drive-by runs on me forcing me to move, jump, place shots strategically, use sticky nades, or flatout jack the vehicle from one of them. There's very little like that in Destiny. The setups and AI behavior are all very, very boring and used over and over throughout the missions.

 

[Nipo]

I don't think you can honestly say that without playing it. It really is a different animal than anything else in the game. There are way more game mechanics in play than anywhere else in the game. Its obviously where they shot their creative load. Aren't you curious at all?

Sell me a DLC for $20 that gives me raid quality gear and I'm interested. My free time is too valuable and backlog too big to waste time grinding something I don't enjoy.

 

[TetraGenesis]

I don't know why I even bothered coming into this thread.

Mad conspiracies, senseless comparisons with unrelated games, defensive vitriol. Goddamn.

 

[bananafactory]

Sell me a DLC for $20 that gives me raid quality gear and I'm interested. My free time is too valuable and backlog too big to waste time grinding something I don't enjoy.

This is exactly how I feel. I play games to have fun - and once I stop having fun I stop playing. I don't mind if something has a slow start - I'll put in an investment to give it a fair chance. But there's no way I'm going to spend hours doing something that isn't fun. I've got a ton of other games I can pick up and enjoy all the way through.

 

[Izuna]

I don't think you can honestly say that without playing it. It really is a different animal than anything else in the game. There are way more game mechanics in play than anywhere else in the game. Its obviously where they shot their creative load. Aren't you curious at all?

I watched the 12 hour stream (well, 5 hours of it, since I stopped while they were stuck and came back when I heard they were getting close etc.) -- regardless of how many mechanics it shows, it having OHKOs everywhere and forcing you to find 5 other people to play with (where there is no other way to play with 5 other people in the main game), it's hardly something worth playing 50 hours to get to.

I'm STILL LV25 after hours of grinding. Imaging the Raid is the best mission since the multiple scarab battle from Halo 3, it won't have been worthwhile. I couldn't recommend anyone to play the amount of time it takes to 1000/1000 Fallout New Vegas to play one damn mission, and neither should critics.

 

[JohnGrimm]

Whens the last time a game this hyped, sold this much, but got these review scores?

Call of Duty Ghosts?

 

[Abusive_Red]

If that's where all their efforts went, it's a ridiculously dumb decision to put it where no one but the most committed of players will find it.

Nah, I think they just wanted to make sure you had all the tools to tackle the tasks that lay ahead, that's all. Like I mentioned, it's not just a bigger version of a Strike, there are totally different gameplay elements introduced.

Plus if the game has only been out a little over a week and people are already raiding, it shouldn't take long for even casual people to eventually get there.

 

[The Librarian]

Movement is never truly in the spotlight because you need to aim down the sights for maximum accuracy

I don't play the game that way. I get along fine without aiming down the sights, and often find myself zigzagging around enemies and shooting them before I resort to ADS.

I disagree with much of the rest of your post (not all higher level enemies have 3 layers of shields, for example, that doesn't make too much sense), but I find your comparison between Halo 3 and Destiny to be odd. The games are trying to do very different things. You can say you enjoyed Halo 3 more, that's fine, I did too, and I think it's fair to say that Halo 3 did what it did better than Destiny, and that's fine too, I would agree with that. But I think a straight up comparison like the one you made really undermines what Bungie was aiming to do with Destiny, and really doesn't say that much.

 

[firehawk12]

Plus if the game has only been out a little over a week and people are already raiding, it shouldn't take long for even casual people to eventually get there.

If the good content is locked behind boring content, what casual player is going to get there?

It feels like people are just giving up on playing the game legitimately and are finding grinding spots for drops instead.

 

[Netherscourge]

IGN all these reviews are a joke because:

IGN
8.9 TitanFall
7.8 Destiny

Polygon
9/10 Titanfall
6/10 Destiny

It's obvious to most Destiny is a better game than Titanfall. How can anyone trust reviews?

Titanfall is not a great game. Neither is Destiny.

Both are shallow IMO.

I think Titanfall and Destiny should have the same, low score.


Everyone is like "We expected Titanfall to just be a FPS with Mechs, and they NAILED IT!!!!"

LOL

Yea, except it doesn't do ANYTHING ELSE and it FAILS MISERABLY at telling a story, which it attempted to do with that horrifying dual-campaign thing they made us play through to unlock the other mechs.

Both games made a lot of undeserved money.

 

[Steel]

It's compelling because it's fun to play. I played half of the campaign solo and was having fun with the gunplay, atmosphere, set pieces. Nobody complains about Zelda games having a silent protagonist, I don't see how that should matter unless you expect a game with a strong narrative or character presence.

It's a game about shooting things, in space, why so serious?

Not saying you can't have this opinion, I just think it is a bit bizarre to judge Destiny on having a silly/un-fleshed out story. Or at least to focus on that point.

You're acting like the only complaint about the game is its story. I wouldn't care how stupid the story is if the mission design, enemy design, and boss design were interesting. But they're not, only in the raid does it change up its formula.

The mission design is just putting down your ghost before or after fighting waves of enemies in a confined area. There's only one noteworthy set piece: the Sword of Croata, which lasts all of 5 minutes.

The enemy design basically has a bunch of cannon fodder enemies that support bullet-***** enemies like captains, minotaurs, and the others. The bullet sponge enemies just wander out in the open shooting their guns at you, while the cannon fodder goes down like a bag of bricks once you go to their cover. Nothing interesting here.

Boss design. Where do I even start? Every single boss in this game uses a reskinned resized model of a smaller enemy(maybe it's different in the strike, I dunno) with a high damage AOE attack. This is incredibly lazy. Definance had more interesting bosses, and it had similar goals. For example: the final boss of Definance's storyline was an agile teleporter with magic, that could cast illusions. If you didn't figure out which one was the real one out of them in time, you'd get hit by a massive damage attack. It was not a bullet sponge copy and paste of a smaller enemy.

Now, I know how you said earlier that you have yet to finish the game, so I can understand how you would miss these design decisions.

 

[Abusive_Red]

I watched the 12 hour stream (well, 5 hours of it, since I stopped while they were stuck and came back when I heard they were getting close etc.) -- regardless of how many mechanics it shows, it having OHKOs everywhere and forcing you to find 5 other people to play with (where there is no other way to play with 5 other people in the main game), it's hardly something worth playing 50 hours to get to.

I'm STILL LV25 after hours of grinding. Imaging the Raid is the best mission since the multiple scarab battle from Halo 3, it won't have been worthwhile. I couldn't recommend anyone to play the amount of time it takes to 1000/1000 Fallout New Vegas to play one damn mission, and neither should critics.

Ok well I'm sorry you aren't willing to do what we all did to get to something we think is pretty great. Its not for everyone.

It has been tremendous going in with 5 other guys and working together to figure it out. None of us watched it on youtube or anything, we wanted to go in completely blind and it's been amazing and rewarding.

 

[RSB]

Damn.. so many absurds comparisons and nobody bring Bioshock: Inifine?

Well Bioshock Infinite had at least one thing better than Destiny gameplay-wise. It didn't penalize your accuracy when not using ADS.

I hate, HATE, the accuracy penalties in Destiny. The one when not using ADS is bad, but the one when jumping is just awful. As much as I like the movement options in Destiny, those accuracy penalties just kill the gameplay for me. Sure, it's better than most modern shooters, but it's not great, definetly not anywhere the level of the Halo games.

It's quite sad, because if they removed those accuracy penalties my enjoyment of the game would skyrocket, even with the shallow encounters and uninteresting enemies.

 

[bananafactory]

Nah, I think they just wanted to make sure you had all the tools to tackle the tasks that lay ahead, that's all. Like I mentioned, it's not just a bigger version of a Strike, there are totally different gameplay elements introduced.

Plus if the game has only been out a little over a week and people are already raiding, it shouldn't take long for even casual people to eventually get there.

There's no reason they couldn't give you the tools necessary throughout the course of the campaign and strikes. Having to grind endlessly to get these "tools" is just offputting to many people.

 

[Abusive_Red]

If the good content is locked behind boring content, what casual player is going to get there?

It feels like people are just giving up on playing the game legitimately and are finding grinding spots for drops instead.

Yeah I don't have a lot of respect for the Youtube loot farmers who are pissed because they have to actually earn greatness in this game. They probably don't deserve to experience the Raids so Im glad its working out the way it is..

 

[Izuna]

Ok well I'm sorry you aren't willing to do what we all did to get to something we think is pretty great. Its not for everyone.

It has been tremendous going in with 5 other guys and working together to figure it out. None of us watched it on youtube or anything, we wanted to go in completely blind and it's been amazing and rewarding.

I'm not saying it doesn't sound fun once you get there, but in now way should something with those requirements be the main positive for a review. There are extremely hardcore and rewarding things in all games. Figuring out how to get AAA Ranks in Ikaruga was awesome, but a very high percentage short of 99% will ever get good enough or spend enough time for such a feat to be worthwhile.

I mean, the industry doesn't currently review fighting games for the small percentage that spends hundreds if not thousands of hours with them for the same reason.

 

[Ollie Pooch]

A few updated thoughts after giving it some more time - I'd been playing on my mate's playthrough on the Venus / Mars levels but now using my own character, just made it to Venus.

- I'm starting to appreciate it more as a grindy/Diablo/Monster Hunter style game - that's not to suggest there's some amazing depth that isn't there, but approaching it from a different angle is really appealing to me (as opposed to expecting some story-driven FPS campaign with set pieces)
- The Vex are hilariously fun to shoot. The gunplay is still amazing.
- Loot drops have really picked up after about level 11.
- Playing alone is boring as shit. Definitely need to have mates or at least, team up with someone you find in the world. Had a few moments where someone just appeared in my quest and we ended up going through it together, pretty fun.
- I think my time with this game is limited - from the slog people are suggesting post-20 to actually level up, I just don't think I have it in me.
- Either I'm a great shot or this game has insane auto-aim. I'm pinging off head shots like nothing else, and I really doubt I'm that good

 

[frequency]

So the raid didn't seem to make up any of that IGN review, unless I missed it.

I noticed that too so I question why they waited until the raid came out for the review. Maybe they thought it was more accessible and didn't realize how much of a grind it is to 26 until it was too late.

 

[Abusive_Red]

There's no reason they couldn't give you the tools necessary throughout the course of the campaign and strikes. Having to grind endlessly to get these "tools" is just offputting to many people.

OH well. No raid for them I guess. I'm in there and I'm loving it.

 

[Izuna]

Yeah I don't have a lot of respect for the Youtube loot farmers who are pissed because they have to actually earn greatness in this game. They probably don't deserve to experience the Raids so Im glad its working out the way it is..

Oh my... we plebs don't deserve to raid

OH well. No raid for them I guess. I'm in there and I'm loving it.

pretty sure busy reviewers don't deserve to raid, and if they did, they'd have to find 5 other deserving ppl.

 

[opticalmace]

Well

What's this from?

 

[Sirim]

Well, for one, the Vex don't take cover. They either teleport or stand their ground, depending on the enemy type.

And is taking cover and shooting a bad thing now? I've seen them trying to flank me, run away from me when I activate my super, and so on. Like Halo, the encounters can really change no matter how many times you play them. I dunno, I really like the enemies in the game.

You know who else teleports? The Fallen. And the Hive.

Depending on the enemy type.

Diversity.

 

[Abusive_Red]

I'm not saying it doesn't sound fun once you get there, but in now way should something with those requirements be the main positive for a review. There are extremely hardcore and rewarding things in all games. Figuring out how to get AAA Ranks in Ikaruga was awesome, but a very high percentage short of 99% will ever get good enough or spend enough time for such a feat to be worthwhile.

I mean, the industry doesn't currently review fighting games for the small percentage that spends hundreds if not thousands of hours with them for the same reason.

I was just asking if any of the reviewers had played the raid, I didn't say it had to be the main positive. After playing some of it, it brought my personal review of the game to a different level, thats all.

 

[Zornack]

What's this from?

I believe it's from Forza Horizon 2.

 

[Nocturno999]

I'm probably feeling crazy, but if there's anything going on regarding moneyhats with Destiny, I imagine it to be Microsoft spending money to spread negative public awareness for this release.

I don't think so, but MS must bee kind of relieved that Destiny will not be the Halo replacement, at least for now.

 

[QaaQer]

OH well. No raid for them I guess. I'm in there and I'm loving it.

So you're not in the "If we complete this, I'm never doing this shit again." camp?

 

[Ingueferroque]

You know who else teleports? The Fallen. And the Hive.

Depending on the enemy type.

Diversity.

Not like the Vex, though?

I do approach Destiny kind of like I do a Monster Hunter game. To me it is about the gameplay, the atmosphere, and the challenge. My story expectations for this game are simply window dressing.

I do hope they keep evolving it, rather than simply adding more content. I would love more activities on earth.

 

[crazyrabbits]

It's compelling because it's fun to play. I played half of the campaign solo and was having fun with the gunplay, atmosphere, set pieces. Nobody complains about Zelda games having a silent protagonist, I don't see how that should matter unless you expect a game with a strong narrative or character presence.

It's a game about shooting things, in space, why so serious?

Not saying you can't have this opinion, I just think it is a bit bizarre to judge Destiny on having a silly/un-fleshed out story. Or at least to focus on that point..

Because it's trying to be multiple things and clearly not succeeding in one aspect?

Because it was pitched as being high-concept and heavy on lore, but the lore is relegated to glorified trading cards and the story is threadbare?

Take your pick. It's fine if you want to shill for it, but this seemed to me like the video game version of Prometheus: visually stunning and has some good action, but thematically/narratively hollow.

 

[Synth]

I was just asking if any of the reviewers had played the raid, I didn't say it had to be the main positive. After playing some of it, it brought my personal review of the game to a different level, thats all.

No, you were saying that reviewers aren't qualified to rate this game until they've played it... and it seems like you believe this would be the case regardless of how restrictive actually being able to play it is.

If everything about the game was exactly the same, yet the raid took 10x the time to access, would you still say that the game couldn't be reviewed prior to it? At what point does having to continuously play what you refer to as "repetitive shit" finally become too much to justify playing a single raid?

 

[JetBlackPanda]

Because it's trying to be multiple things and clearly not succeeding in one aspect?

Because it was pitched as being high-concept and heavy on lore, but the lore is relegated to glorified trading cards and the story is threadbare?

Take your pick. It's fine if you want to shill for it, but this seemed to me like the video game version of Prometheus: visually stunning and has some good action, but thematically/narratively hollow.

Yo. dude enjoys the game and you don't. he was pretty cool about your position on the game but its clear you aren't. Do people usually pop into review threads for games they hate and call people that like it shills and stuff?

 

[Sirim]

It also just occurred to me that every boss in the game (except maybe the raids, haven't seen the raid) is literally a large version of a base type enemy.

Giant purple ball - bigger version of regular purple balls.

Large Fallen captain.

Large Hive Ogre.

Large Vex minotaur.

Large Cabal.

The only boss off the top of my head that isn't a larger version of something is the spider tank.

 

[Abusive_Red]

So you're not in the "If we complete this, I'm never doing this shit again." camp?

Fuck no, its not hard like a Heroic or Nightfall first time through, you can still enjoy yourself. Plus as you go through you get raid gear that has upgrades specific to the raid to make it a little "easier" the next time through. Really cool.

I also have a lot of friends who aren't ready yet, so as new folks get leveled I'm going to be helping them through. Everyone I know is working hard toward getting there.

 

[The Librarian]

You know who else teleports? The Fallen. And the Hive.

Depending on the enemy type.

Diversity.

You know, a lot of them shoot guns too.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Because it's trying to be multiple things and clearly not succeeding in one aspect?

Because it was pitched as being high-concept and heavy on lore, but the lore is relegated to glorified trading cards and the story is threadbare?

Take your pick. It's fine if you want to shill for it, but this seemed to me like the video game version of Prometheus: visually stunning and has some good action, but thematically/narratively hollow.

Not shilling, but I never took any of their PR statements to heart and judged the game from my experience with the Alpha and Beta. Going in with blanket expectations seems to help.

To me the lore is still cool though, even if there is almost no exposition.

And again, I am not shilling. But I'm shocked to the reaction that this game is getting, which causes me to respond to the discussion since it seems like such a misunderstood underdog.

I did the same when Monster Hunter (PSP days) was a misunderstood and underappreciated game in the west. And did the same when Demon's Souls was in its infancy. I'm passionate about games but never to the point where I have a specific agenda.

I just called a game with the biggest marketing budget in history an underdog.

 

[Gaz_RB]

It also just occurred to me that every boss in the game (except maybe the raids, haven't seen the raid) is literally a large version of a base type enemy.

Giant purple ball - bigger version of regular purple balls.

Large Fallen captain.

Large Hive Ogre.

Large Vex minotaur.

Large Cabal.

The only boss off the top of my head that isn't a larger version of something is the spider tank.

There is also the cool Cabal floating tank.

But your point still stands.

 

[JetBlackPanda]

It also just occurred to me that every boss in the game (except maybe the raids, haven't seen the raid) is literally a large version of a base type enemy.

Giant purple ball - bigger version of regular purple balls.

Large Fallen captain.

Large Hive Ogre.

Large Vex minotaur.

Large Cabal.

The only boss off the top of my head that isn't a larger version of something is the spider tank.

I know so many other FPS have so many different kinds of enemies.

I killed like 5 different kinds of Nazis and about 4 different robots in Wolfenstein. Still an amazing game.

 

[Steel]

Not like the Vex, though?

I do approach Destiny kind of like I do a Monster Hunter game. To me it is about the gameplay, the atmosphere, and the challenge. My story expectations for this game are simply window dressing.

I do hope they keep evolving it, rather than simply adding more content. I would love more activities on earth.

Hunting games actually have good boss design, though.

 

[Abusive_Red]

No, you were saying that reviewers aren't qualified to rate this game until they've played it...

I dont think I said that at all.

 

[Ingueferroque]

Hunting games actually have good boss design, though.

Agreed, haven't seen any compelling boss encounters yet.

 

[Hero_of_the_Day]

IGN and their fucking .8's.

 

[breakfuss]

IGN review was good. I probably would have gone with 7.0-7.5, but it still hit all the necessary points. Well produced video, too.

Any chance this reception impacts sales negatively enough that it doesn't break even? After seeing that other thread it appears it still didn't meet Activision's expectations (which is mind boggling)? Despite my issues with it I want to still do well. I like Bungie. Part of me even feels bad. Losing the bonus. We all know countless people poured their heart into this project. But, damn, did it miss the mark in critical ways. They just need more time and I think it'll be something amazing.