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[Coulomb_Barrier]

But historically does PES only have like premium footballers likeness spot on but all the rest are poor where as FIFA has consistent likeness across the board for all players?

Not really, it's not just the star players that look off in Fifa, it's everyone.

Another thing those comparisons bring is the lighting on the player models.the shadowing in PES looks amazing.

Yeah PES has always had good shadowing. I don't know what engine EA are using for FIFA 15 but it ain't next-gen worthy. It's stuck in the PS360-era and will probably remain so for next years' installment.

 

[Biker19]

One thing is for sure, devs with lower budgets won't have the time to optimize for Xbone in the future given it has a significantly smaller user base and is harder to work with.

Pretty soon, no one's going to give a damn about optimizing for Xbox One or even going for parity (especially not with Japanese 3rd party publishers/developers). PS4 already has about a 5+ million install base lead at the moment, & I assume that number's going to get even larger after this year's holiday season is over.

 

[BruiserBear]

How can FIFA likenesses continue to be so bad?

The budget for the game is huge yet PES 2015 wipes the floor with FIFA 15 when it comes to the player likenesses and soon graphics in general too.

I'm really skeptical EA has a big budget for any of their sports games. I think they have big marketing budgets, but the actual games don't give the impression they're being worked on by large teams.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

Let me know which part of that sounds too sensitive to you. Return of the King is an active attachment that Pro Evolution Soccer has on it. If you think or are looking too much into my particular posts and you should really look into all the other posts which really are looking for something. You can group me in that select this category as you have chosen to or you can quit being so sensitive as there are other posts stating the opposite.

Understand that the level of sensitivity one choice or a particular piece of software.

I choose to respond to post like yours because I asked you tonite only look at what you ever you think you're seeing in me in particular but to realize that I'm not as huge of a fan of the console but I am of the software so I'm always going to post favorably I work n even if it happens to be an Xbox game. Try to grasp or come to an understanding of that because everything else is just for jokes. If its opposite to you, then I cannot really account for that.

In the end that's that and the topic of this thread is a fact as of now. Where it to ever change then I would applaud or sit there and eat my food like I'm doing right now and I wouldn't lose no sleep over it so I urge you to please not lose sleep over my particular post even if some that are using the same candor are not quite as withholding and maybe are trolling.

I knew you would play the sensitive card. I'm well aware of the "Return of the King" term, when in the PS2/Xbox days the series was at its peak and a brilliant football game. Going by what I have seen from you in the past on here and a group of similar folk, I'm not convinced by what you have said at all. You can call me sensitive, that's your opinion, if sensitivity is an issue then let's open it up and play everything as a joke, every post, every thread. If I have anything else to say I will speak to you via PM as I have derailed the thread.

 

[CLEEK]

Another thing those comparisons bring is the lighting on the player models.the shadowing in PES looks amazing.

Played the PES demo (PS4) this weekend. It felt like an incremental improvement over the last gen versions. 1080p gave a crisp image. Wider range of player animations was subtle, but nice. The extra detail on the stadiums and crowds were noticeable, but irrelevant in-game. The only thing that did impress me was the lighting.

 

[onQ123]

PS4 was built with Compute in mind & because of the extra power & more flexible GPGPU design it's going to spank the Xbox One every time compute is involved.


Say something is being done with compute in a game that need 500GFLOPS of compute to run at 1080 30FPS. that would leave the Xbox One with around 800 GFLOPS of GPU power for fix function GPU rendering. lowering the resolution will lower the compute load & give back gpu resource for fix function rendering.

 

[Lord Error]

Just had a quick look too, seems a lot of effort for a site with no ads, he obviously makes no money from click bait, wonder why he bothers

MisterXmedia is probably REI-ROM. So that's why he bothers.

 

[chubigans]

I'm really skeptical EA has a big budget for any of their sports games. I think they have big marketing budgets, but the actual games don't give the impression they're being worked on by large teams.

EA Orlando alone has nearly 700 employees for Madden and PGA Golf. Of course that includes building techs and people outside game development, but even if it was 400 people, that's quite a large number.

http://www.easports.com/careers/orlando

 

[zedge]

Downloaded the demo for XB1...

this is not a good looking game by any definition. I'm sure it looks better on PS4, but it's a bad looking game on this system. Fifa looks clean, like a next gen game, and PES looks like a PS3 game.

Whatever the history behind all of this doesn't matter to what I'm seeing on these two games, on this system. It's not even close visually.

My thoughts exactly after trying the demo on X1. Nothing impressive about it. Guess the engine is just not optimized for anything but PS4.

Will try on PS4 too and see.

 

[MilesTeg]

Pretty soon, no one's going to give a damn about optimizing for Xbox One or even going for parity (especially not with Japanese 3rd party publishers/developers). PS4 already has about a 5+ million install base lead at the moment, & I assume that number's going to get even larger after this year's holiday season is over.

It's kind of an unprecedented situation because as far as I know, this is really the only generation where the most powerful console will also easily sell the most units. I don't think SNES was that much more powerful than Genesis, though I guess that's the most comparable generation of consoles to this one given the lead SNES had in sales (which by all indications, the PS4 will make the SNES - Genesis gap look small when all is said and done).

Nevermind parity, this could lead to devs/publishers skipping the console all together, especially if Xbone sales don't take a significant turnaround in the near future. Not for AAA games, but lower budget stuff.

 

[Patroclos]

EA Orlando alone has nearly 700 employees for Madden and PGA Golf. Of course that includes building techs and people outside game development, but even if it was 400 people, that's quite a large number.

http://www.easports.com/careers/orlando

And that is absolutely ridiculous for the level of product they put out. That cements it for me, this Madden will be my last. It's an OK game to play with friends but the tiny incremental steps are not enough. Especially now that I know how many people they have working on it. Damn.

 

[cafemomo]

The PES team isn't meant for multi console development

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

I'm really skeptical EA has a big budget for any of their sports games. I think they have big marketing budgets, but the actual games don't give the impression they're being worked on by large teams.

Compared to the funds afforded to the Konami PES team, I'm sure FIFA has a much bigger budget.

 

[Nocturno999]

Lazy Devs part 2: now on Sony's side.

 

[mintylurb]

Sure, maybe you can't say that "It wasn't designed for 1080p" and doing so is a little silly, but you can say that it was clearly not designed for games and engines with a large framebuffer and in hindsight that's incredibly unfortunate.

Deferred rendering has been extensively used in many games since last gen.
Based on the facts that sub 1080P games using MS's upscaler had the sharpening filter applied to them automatically(now removed) and 2 panes for game rendering(HUD and game),
it's not unreasonable to surmise that MS was keenly aware of the esram size constraint.
What Chub suggested in his post is a bit more grounded in reality than posts such as the x1 version should be 900p or Konami being lazy, etc.

 

[CLEEK]

The PES team isn't meant for multi console development

Every single version of PES has had a multi-console release. It was only single format during its ISS Pro days.

PES 2014 came out on six formats, including the PS2! (PES 2015 will be the first PES game to not get a PS2 version).

 

[Iorv3th]

Just played both demos. PES is the better looking and better playing game. The animation in PES is light years ahead, players look stiff in Fifa. PES has great flow, they've overhauled it last year I think.

from the pes thread

This. PES looks a lot better and feels better. Just doesn't have all the leagues and presentation.

 

[mintylurb]

Played the PES demo (PS4) this weekend. It felt like an incremental improvement over the last gen versions. 1080p gave a crisp image. Wider range of player animations was subtle, but nice. The extra detail on the stadiums and crowds were noticeable, but irrelevant in-game. The only thing that did impress me was the lighting.

Are you sure it's crisp? Kabuki said the ps4 version was blurry though.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

This. PES looks a lot better and feels better. Just doesn't have all the leagues and presentation.

Online needs improving too imo

 

[BruiserBear]

EA Orlando alone has nearly 700 employees for Madden and PGA Golf. Of course that includes building techs and people outside game development, but even if it was 400 people, that's quite a large number.

http://www.easports.com/careers/orlando

According to their site they make Madden, NCAA Football, PGA, and NBA Live. I believe that's also where they house their engine teams, etc. So divided up amongst all those projects, it really doesn't seem that incredible.

 

[CLEEK]

Are you sure it's crisp? Kabuki said the ps4 version was blurry though.

And people corrected him on it. He also said FIFA has clearly better animation, which is objectively wrong. IQ in-game is nice. There's no scaling blur that you get with a non-native resolution.

 

[chubigans]

According to their site they make Madden, NCAA Football, PGA, and NBA Live. I believe that's also where they house their engine teams, etc. So divided up amongst all those projects, it really doesn't seem that incredible.

I forgot about NBA Live. There's no NCAA team anymore, and PGA has gotten a cutdown since they dropped the Tiger Woods license (no idea if that includes the team as well). I don't see anywhere it says about housing engine teams, you're thinking of EA Vancouver I think?

 

[Biker19]

It's kind of an unprecedented situation because as far as I know, this is really the only generation where the most powerful console will also easily sell the most units. I don't think SNES was that much more powerful than Genesis, though I guess that's the most comparable generation of consoles to this one given the lead SNES had in sales (which by all indications, the PS4 will make the SNES - Genesis gap look small when all is said and done).

Nevermind parity, this could lead to devs/publishers skipping the console all together, especially if Xbone sales don't take a significant turnaround in the near future. Not for AAA games, but lower budget stuff.

Very true, though I don't think that consoles have ever won due to power, but with lower price tags, a decent library of games, & better advertising of a product. What Sony had done with the PS4 was all of the above. Plus having more power as a bonus.

I highly doubt that Xbone's going to be receiving 83+ million owners like with Xbox 360, nor are they gonna be making a huge comeback like Nintendo did with SNES/Super Famicon (because of Sega's constant screw-ups with too many add-ons for Genesis/MegaDrive) or like Sony did with PS3 (because of Europe & Japan). IMO, Microsoft just completely blew it this gen. Not just in the U.S. either, but everywhere else.

What they've done was so much worse than Sony with the $599 U.S. Dollars debacle or with PSN security hacking of PS3, that almost no one wants to buy their product at all (at least no one outside of the U.S.).

 

[stew]

how accurate is this?:

It's not accurate, at least for FIFA. We can't see any detail in those screens.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

Pretty soon, no one's going to give a damn about optimizing for Xbox One or even going for parity (especially not with Japanese 3rd party publishers/developers).

I see you are back to true form lol

 

[SPDIF]

Just played both demos. PES is the better looking and better playing game. The animation in PES is light years ahead, players look stiff in Fifa. PES has great flow, they've overhauled it last year I think.

from the pes thread

It certainly does look good, but I really do think Fifa looks great too (it's certainly not stiff anyway). I just can't be bothered to find and/or create a GIF to show it. Which I guess nullifies my point a little Still, looking at the first GIF above it is a little off putting how Ronaldo is animated really well, while at the same time the AI is animated pretty terribly.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

What's that supposed to mean? FIFA is more attached to PlayStation brand than chocolate to cocoa.

People basically play Fifa on their "play"(station)

That's true for the VAST majority of the casual gamers.

Plus, nothing is king on Xbox out of the US, and I doubt the Fifa sales are comparable to the EU/UK there so what kind of kingdom are we exactly talking about?

Let me rephrase that, PES sells the best in Japan and Latin America, and there the Xbox brand couldnt be weaker

 

[Biker19]

I see you are back to true form lol

So I'm back to my "true form" because I didn't want to lie or sugarcoat anything. OK.

Plus I never had a "true form" of anything. I'm only expressing my opinion.

 

[Coulomb_Barrier]

Just played both demos. PES is the better looking and better playing game. The animation in PES is light years ahead, players look stiff in Fifa. PES has great flow, they've overhauled it last year I think.

from the pes thread

FOX Engine is going to do for PES what growth hormones did for Lionel Messi's career.

PES 2015 looks and moves spectacularly compared to anything else on the market.

 

[CLEEK]

Nevermind parity, this could lead to devs/publishers skipping the console all together, especially if Xbone sales don't take a significant turnaround in the near future. Not for AAA games, but lower budget stuff.

This will never happen. The architecture of the PS4 and Xbone are so close, the effort to produce both PS4 and Xbox versions is so much less than releasing multi-format games in any prior gen. Even if the PS4 continues to outselling the Xbone 2:1, that's still a hell of a lot of Xboxes out there.

The worst case situation will be half arsed versions that aren't built with the Xbox's hardware limitations in mind. So far more sub-1080p games, more 30fps instead of 60fps etc.

 

[SeanTSC]

This will never happen. The architecture of the PS4 and Xbone are so close, the effort to produce both PS4 and Xbox versions is so much less than releasing multi-format games in any prior gen. Even if the PS4 continues to outselling the Xbone 2:1, that's still a hell of a lot of Xboxes out there.

The worst case situation will be half arsed versions that aren't built with the Xbox's hardware limitations in mind. So far more sub-1080p games, more 30fps instead of 60fps etc.

Never is a strong word. It depends on the developer. The same developers who did a lot of PS3 exclusives will probably continue to do PS4 exclusives. Granted, those are mostly niche Japanese games, but it happened and is still happening. Like the poster you replied to said - lower budget stuff. Persona, Tales, Disgaea, Atelier games, etc. It's not unreasonable to think other small developers outside of Japan could take the same course.

 

[pixellated_man]

Can't agree with any of this. Having played both demos on PS4 I'd give PES the edge (gameplay-wise its 100 times better than Fifa).

As nice as PES looks I doubt it's pushing the hardware too much, this seems like laziness on Konami's part.

I've played both demo's on ps4 and found PES superior graphically. It has a more realistic look to it compared to Fifa - something I appreciate in sports games. The player models look
to have a higher poly count and the skin textures / shaders look more natural in my opinion. DF face off will surely shed more light.

 

[shinnn]

The demo is definitely 720p on XB1. But the game is ugly as hell. The grass (when it is visible) reminds me of minecraft.

PES

FIFA

 

[moai]

im playing the demo right now on ps4 and the grass looks similar. i also dont like fifa grass, still looks like a carpet to me.

 

[TAJ]

It's weird to see people bringing up Diablo 3. Its assets are seriously last-gen. Seems like it was built to run on cheap laptops.

Resolution (or rather fillrate as it's resolution combined with framerate) is limited by the framebuffer footprint.

Infamous: Second Son's render targets take 290MB. Must be nice to have options.

I don't get posters like you at all. Grown men aswell

He's not even trolling, though. The gap really is going to get wider as devs dig into compute.

FOX Engine is going to do for PES what growth hormones did for Lionel Messi's career.

PES 2015 looks and moves spectacularly compared to anything else on the market.

Eh... if you mean the sports game market, then NBA2K says hi. Sublime animation. You can almost see the players thinking.

 

[CLEEK]

i also dont like fifa grass, still looks like a carpet to me.

Looks like you're playing a game of footy on Rock's stage from Soul Blade.

 

[pixellated_man]

That doesn't make any sense. If a PS4 game runs at 1080/60, and so does the Xbox one, how is the PS4 version "gimped"? Are there any examples of Ps4 games achieving higher than 1080/60?

There are aspects to graphics other than framerate and resolution you know. For example when playing multiplats on a powerful pc, you would expect (and usually get) superior textures, lighting and other effects when running at the same resolution and fps as console versions.

 

[travisbickle]

Just played both demos. PES is the better looking and better playing game. The animation in PES is light years ahead, players look stiff in Fifa. PES has great flow, they've overhauled it last year I think.

from the pes thread

NOT REALISTIC!!! Ronaldo didn't take a dive, the other player was within at least 2 feet of him!

 

[neogaffer1]

How did Powerstar Golf turn out resolution/framerate wise? I remember talk of it being 720p before launch but didn't hear anything after that.

No idea. There wasn't a DF thread and as far as I can tell nobody bothered to figure out what it was.

 

[Piggus]

Man if all this whining about Xbone 720p is forcing developers to abandon deferred rendering engines in favor of old ass shit I'm going to be so mad.

Unfortunately this will probably be the case... Deffered rendering should be the standard for every game at this point as it offers major graphical benefits but if the Bone is terrible at handling such a technique (which it is) then I don't think many third party devs will use it.

Lol at the comparisons to Destiny and Diablo III. One is a cross-gen title with fairly minor upgrades and the other was designed to run well on a toaster. Neither uses deferred rendering. Games like GTA, Infamous SS, Watch_Dogs, Killzone, etc that really push ththe graphics envelope are games that use DR.

 

[pixellated_man]

How about blaming both:

1.- Microsoft for using weaker, more complicated hardware on purpose, and not sending someone to help
2.- Konami for not going the extra mile for 900p at least (the ~50% performance difference)

Summary:

- Some of the posters are in denial about no.1, if I bought an X1 I'd know it's a weaker console and that stuff like this was bound to happen.
- And some posters are exaggerating No.1, the difference should be around 900p and some missing effects.

Excellent post. More balanced unbiased thinking like this would help dragging out these kind of threads into endless back and forth arguments.

 

[Louis Cyphre]

Very true, though I don't think that consoles have ever won due to power, but with lower price tags, a decent library of games, & better advertising of a product. What Sony had done with the PS4 was all of the above. Plus having more power as a bonus.

I highly doubt that Xbone's going to be receiving 83+ million owners like with Xbox 360, nor are they gonna be making a huge comeback like Nintendo did with SNES/Super Famicon (because of Sega's constant screw-ups with too many add-ons for Genesis/MegaDrive) or like Sony did with PS3 (because of Europe & Japan). IMO, Microsoft just completely blew it this gen. Not just in the U.S. either, but everywhere else.

What they've done was so much worse than Sony with the $599 U.S. Dollars debacle or with PSN security hacking of PS3, that almost no one wants to buy their product at all (at least no one outside of the U.S.).

WiiU sales are not any better. In fact this game isn't coming to the WiiU is it? So do you go on and on about Nintendo too? Do you spend just as much time talking about the WiiU as you do with the XBOX One and how both have sold less than expected? How the WiiU can't even get the games, let alone running worse than they do on the PS4? I'd say the future looks much brighter for the XBOX One than the WiiU does.

I also have to question if the team behind this game were able to take advantage of the Kinect-free updates.

 

[digoutyoursoul]

How about blaming both:

1.- Microsoft for using weaker, more complicated hardware on purpose, and not sending someone to help
2.- Konami for not going the extra mile for 900p at least (the ~50% performance difference)

Summary:

- Some of the posters are in denial about no.1, if I bought an X1 I'd know it's a weaker console and that stuff like this was bound to happen.
- And some posters are exaggerating No.1, the difference should be around 900p and some missing effects.

Good post

 

[stryke]

Excellent post. More balanced unbiased thinking like this would help dragging out these kind of threads into endless back and forth arguments.

Not really. He would need to prove that their engine should be ALU limited if that were the case and I doubt he knows the intricacies of Fox enough to make that kind of call.

 

[travisbickle]

Unfortunately this will probably be the case... Deffered rendering should be the standard for every game at this point as it offers major graphical benefits but if the Bone is terrible at handling such a technique (which it is) then I don't think many third party devs will use it.

Is deferred rendering new lighting techniques like Driveclub?

Dev teams aren't going to pass up on that, consider how small Evolution is and they're producing a game that looks phenomenal because of lighting.

 

[CLEEK]

How about blaming both:

1.- Microsoft for using weaker, more complicated hardware on purpose, and not sending someone to help
2.- Konami for not going the extra mile for 900p at least (the ~50% performance difference)

Summary:

- Some of the posters are in denial about no.1, if I bought an X1 I'd know it's a weaker console and that stuff like this was bound to happen.
- And some posters are exaggerating No.1, the difference should be around 900p and some missing effects.

You make it sound like hitting 900p is a simple thing to do on the Xbone, or the the difference can be made up with optimisation.

The Fox Engine uses deferred rendering which the Xbox hardware has a major bottleneck preventing high resolutions. The 32MB of eSRAM is the issue. The RAM size is too small.

 

[shandy706]

Just played Demo. Looks nice.

Doesn't make sense it being 720p though.

Must be an optimization/engine thing.


Enjoyed my time in the demo. I like how it seemed to know when I wanted through passes without me specifying it.

 

[Biker19]

WiiU sales are not any better. In fact this game isn't coming to the WiiU is it? So do you go on and on about Nintendo too? Do you spend just as much time talking about the WiiU as you do with the XBOX One and how both have sold less than expected? How the WiiU can't even get the games, let alone running worse than they do on the PS4? I'd say the future looks much brighter for the XBOX One than the WiiU does.

I also have to question if the team behind this game were able to take advantage of the Kinect-free updates.

Of course Nintendo blew it with the Wii U too, as ever since 2011, they've stopped supporting the Wii, & have completely blew on the reveal/advertising of the Wii U in two E3 conferences. Two. Therefore, consumers see no incentive to even buy the product, outside of huge Nintendo fans like myself (as Nintendo does have very fun 1st/2nd party titles besides Sony's & Sega's, IMO).

I think the reason why Nintendo can't seem to get any 3rd party titles is because of the way that they've handled 3rd party developers in the past when Nintendo hugely dominated with the NES/SNES with insane practices (and because they never seem to be up-to-date hardware wise; I blame Genyo Takeda for that).

Anyway, gamers everywhere are always going to call out on companies whenever they fuck up, or whenever they say something incredibly stupid with BS statements as their PR; It's more than just me. Just like everyone called out on Sony back from 2005-2007 on what they did with both PS3 & PSP. And with the security breaching about credit cards on PS3.

 

[neogaffer1]

You make it sound like hitting 900p is a simple thing to do on the Xbone, or the the difference can be made up with optimisation.

The Fox Engine uses deferred rendering which the Xbox hardware has a major bottleneck preventing high resolutions. The 32MB of eSRAM is the issue. The RAM size is too small.

16 MB was enough for non-deferred 720p. I find it hard to believe 32 MB can do at most deferred 720p.

 

[Wynnebeck]

The x1 isn't as powerful as the ps4, but it seems they never bothered to try here.

So sick and tired of lazy developers who aren't fully utilizing the power of the Xbox One. They could have just as easily called up MS for help, but probably spent time goofing off. Vote with your wallets people and tell Konami to stop jerking our chains.