MHWilliams
Member
I find Reddit/Games to be mostly fine.
#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
- Thread starter besada
- Start date
- Status
It's awful. I loved his characters on Chuck and Firefly. It makes me feel bad about myself.
lol, at first I liked the video but then
I was like "nevermind, he's just as conspiratorial as they are" BUT then he comes clean about the gag.
LiegeWaffle
Member
Reddit has different subreddits, which are clearly separated and have different moderators, so you cannot really judge it in its entirety. It is a platform, not a single site.
All relatively popular public websites have something toxic on them.
Yeah, /r/games and some even smaller places like /r/truegaming are quite well-moderated and worthat least checking out from my opinionn
The Blue Jihad
Member
Someone taking issue with what these Jeremiad pieces were doing is not dredging the internet to make someone look bad.
But that certainly doesn't matter here. All you guys care about is giggling from the back row in the classroom. That you all do it so gleefully is troubling. Then again, everything turns into a game, so it's probably difficult resisting the urge to act like cheerleaders.
This thread started with good intentions. Now it's just a morbid, farcical abomination, shambling along under the false pretense of "discussion." "Not right now" and "now isn't the time" are nonsense replies that merely kick the can further down the road and we've seen what effect that has had in Congress.
I've just lost all faith in the ability of the masses to think at this point. We're absolutely fucked if this thread is indicative of where things are going. I don't expect anyone to take the time to try to understand what I'm saying. I don't expect anyone to take a few steps back from this to gain perspective. And I do not expect anyone to realize how completely insane this thread is going to look a year from now, because I don't expect anyone to possess that level of self reflection.
:-/
Thanks for the video
Do you happen to know the award that was Zoe supposedly "stole" from Papers, Please? The statements say an award, but it would be better to know which award (more specific).
GoodCoffeeJoey
Banned
makes u think
The Technomancer
card-carrying scientician
Thanks for the video
Do you happen to know the award that was Zoe supposedly "stole" from Papers, Please? The statements say an award, but it would be better to know which award (more specific).
Oh man, if I recall that one is the dumbest since, IIRC, both games got the award separate years or something. I don't recall the details but someone should be able to pull it up
MHWilliams
Member
So what would you like to talk about? You want to criticize Alexander's incendiary article? Rock out. I disagree with parts of the article and her incendiary tone, but I also acknowledge part of the thrust was "games are moving beyond certain demographics."
Jeremiad. Heh. Haven't heard that term since mid-college Lit.
Can you point at some examples of this? Who is saying "not right now"? I've seen numerous cases of "we have legitimate concerns to investigate, why aren't you investigating that". I've seen cases of "why are you trying to silence the people who are taking this industry seriously". I'm not sure where "not right now" and "now isn't the time" came up.
Thanks for the video
Do you happen to know the award that was Zoe supposedly "stole" from Papers, Please? The statements say an award, but it would be better to know which award (more specific).
Depression Quest won something called a Night Games award at Indiecade, which is a sort of honorable mention for expriemental games that goes out to dozens of games and has no actual winner. Papers, Please also received the same sort of mention. List here http://www.indiecade.com/2013/festival_nightgames/
As far awards won, Papers, Please won several at IGF (where Depression Quest was not nominated for anything), so it could be any of them. http://www.igf.com/02finalists.html
It's just one of those popular misconceptions that appeared after enough people repeated it. Sort of a common thread.
Thank you.
TheBryanJZX90
Member
Hahaha yeah totally freshman year early American literature
http://www.reddit.com/r/dwarffortress/
I've visted this one nearly every day and have never seen anything remotely offencive, well as long as you are not an elf anyway.
I've started going to the dnd, writers prompts, writing reddits and, so far, they seems fine, but I've only been visiting them intermittently.
There is a lot of awesome content on reddit.
I can put together a bunch of links tomorrow, but it basically boils down to the fact that the burden of proof is on those making the claims, and they've failed over and over again to provide the evidence to back up those claims.
So yes, when I have the time and patience tomorrow or later, it'll be fairly easy to substantiate every single thing in my list, but it's unfortunate that I need to do that in the first place - the burden of proof is actually on the people whose claims have been debunked over and over again.
It's just a neverending series of moving goalposts. GamerGaters are so desperate to find something that sticks, yet it never does, and they always need to move onto the next thing to justify their predisposed opinions and satisfy their confirmation biases.
Neoriceisgood
Member
Are these just backhanded insults insinuating that anyone who doesn't think like you is incapable of self-reflecting and willingness to debate?
Because if that's not what you're saying, it sure sounds like it.
Lalalandia
Member
Please teach me these critical thinking skills that rely on no evidence but MS Paint diagrams o wise one. What you thought it 'if only GG had a dedicated thread people would feel my pain over LA's article'? No the Rab thread had to be closed because that was about actual corruption but was being cluttered up with this BS.
GG has always been BS, every claim beyond 'LA hurt my fee fees' is BS and has been pointed out LA's article was as shocking as any other 'Death of X' article, i.e. not at all.
In a year I hope that GG is but the hardcore of misogynistic assholes that started the whole mess. The rest of GG will hopefully have moved on to trying to making themselves heard in a more rational fashion.
His past half dozen posts have been vague complaints about the thread and type of discourse being had. I've yet to see actual arguments put forward justifying the existence of GamerGate outside of a claim of "corruption" backed with no evidence. There are issues with the way the games press works and unfortunately GamerGate is usually too busy latching onto the wrong things to ever talk about it.
tonysidaway
Member
Probably best to avoid speaking about fellow posters in the third person. It would be boring if we all had exactly the same opinion.
Our Blue Jihad has delivered pretty much nothing but threadwhining. This is not really a case of having a different opinion.
Denton
Member
Yeah, it'd be one thing if he actually had an argument to make about points that were being (in his eyes) unfairly overlooked, but I guess actually having to make an argument and defend it is more difficult than drive-by shitposting. See also: everyone who has run into this thread by posting some pro-GG article that "makes u think" and can't be bothered to defend it.
I understand and thank you for your effort. The burden of proof is never accepted by those making the original unsubstantiated claims, so it always falls on others to show the factual quantitative evidence. It would just be nice to have a handy list available at the ready to dissuade the perpetuation of unfounded claims.
FF Seraphim
Member
So any new updates that is worthwhile?
Neoriceisgood
Member
FF Seraphim
Member
Damn... so no hilarious shit to read... I am disappoint
partyphone
Banned
sections like these and things like celebrity AMAs work to whitewash reddit's awful policies regarding harassment and trolling and just being horrible in general.
VibratingDonkey
Member
Empowered by their success in making Intel pull their ads on Gamasutra because ggate didn't like one of their writers' editorials, ggate is now moving to convince Nvidia to pull their ads from Eurogamer and RPS. Apparently someone on those sites have also said something ggate didn't like at some point, which is of course not allowed and must be punished in order to fight corruption and censorship.
It's not just reddit that has a problem with this, most social media platforms have real trouble coming to grips with harassment and trolling. There are some real big problems out there in the social media space.
I wouldn't say they whitewash it or excuse the entire site, they just show that it's heterogeneous and not every part of it is completely fucked up all the time.
Different parts of sites like reddit and 4chan can also be fairly isolated from each other, just like how the Twitter I use to post silly jokes is fairly separate from the Twitter used by ISIS.
For subjects like these, a slow news day is often a good thing.
I can't watch. I tried, I really did.
I just can't. You can't open a video where InfoWars talks about the Huffington Post and and NOT get the effect of nails on a chalkboard.
An article isn't open to interpretation, at least not in the way it's being repeatedly misinterpreted by #GG, and to suggest that it could be is kind of ridiculous. If you read a non-fiction novel, you might disagree with the facts it presents or the way that it goes about it, but you cannot suggest there are multiple interpretations of what the author intended. The author's intent isn't open to interpretation.
And you can't suggest that authorial intent doesn't matter here, because this is not a film. It's an op ed. Her opinion is the entire point, and in fact what the majority of people opposed to Leigh's article keep mischaracterizing about it is her intention. She meant to hurt people, she meant to offend all gamers, this was a deliberate attack on an entire culture of people who did nothing wrong. This was not her intent. This is a misinterpretation.
Whether or not you think she communicated her intentions clearly or whether or not you agree with her opinion is entirely open to debate, but there is in fact a right and a wrong way to understand her opinion. The correct way would align with what she says she meant. (Again: you can think she communicated it poorly. But you cannot say that you are more correct about what she meant than she is. That's absurd.)
The incorrect way, the misinterpretation, would be the persecution complex that's still running rampant a month later that assumes a woman who plays games herself hates every single person who plays video games.
And you can't suggest that authorial intent doesn't matter here, because this is not a film. It's an op ed. Her opinion is the entire point, and in fact what the majority of people opposed to Leigh's article keep mischaracterizing about it is her intention. She meant to hurt people, she meant to offend all gamers, this was a deliberate attack on an entire culture of people who did nothing wrong. This was not her intent. This is a misinterpretation.
Whether or not you think she communicated her intentions clearly or whether or not you agree with her opinion is entirely open to debate, but there is in fact a right and a wrong way to understand her opinion. The correct way would align with what she says she meant. (Again: you can think she communicated it poorly. But you cannot say that you are more correct about what she meant than she is. That's absurd.)
The incorrect way, the misinterpretation, would be the persecution complex that's still running rampant a month later that assumes a woman who plays games herself hates every single person who plays video games.
This article was linked to by games writer Rhianna Pratchett on twitter about how women in the games industry can't be themselves and always have to play a role.
https://medium.com/matter/the-women-i-pretend-to-be-ef0a5ce97277
I thought it was really interesting as it relates to women like Leigh Alexander who are constantly told to change their tone and be nicer and quieter which would result in them not being themselves.
https://medium.com/matter/the-women-i-pretend-to-be-ef0a5ce97277
I thought it was really interesting as it relates to women like Leigh Alexander who are constantly told to change their tone and be nicer and quieter which would result in them not being themselves.
Moral Panic
Member
The difference is that Twitter will shut down any ISIS accounts it finds whereas Reddit will not.
Yeah, again, not trying to say that the whole site and its policies are fine and dandy, just that good communities can exist within bad networks. How culpable the good/neutral communties are for the bad stuff is sort of a separate discussion
I think I already said this, but I keep coming back to it. Currently #gamergate's advertiser email target is Rock Paper Shotgun.
If RPS decided that from now on, every single article would be about feminism... isn't that their right? They are a blog with a bunch of writers who write about what they want. What's the problem here?
I just don't get this campaign: http://i.imgur.com/WMe4yIu.jpg
If RPS decided that from now on, every single article would be about feminism... isn't that their right? They are a blog with a bunch of writers who write about what they want. What's the problem here?
I just don't get this campaign: http://i.imgur.com/WMe4yIu.jpg
They've been going after RPS for a while, the intel thing probably just galvanized them.
Sadly Nvidia might prove even more susceptible then intel. I mean, Intel has no competition in their market, Nvidia at least has to worry about AMD. Pissing off people (As they're going to whether they pull their ad or not) could hurt them.
Neoriceisgood
Member
#GamerGate guys think feminists are trying to destroy the industry, but in reality it's them going around like a wrecking ball.
Authorial intent is definitely open to interpretation. Yes, I agree that the manner in which they are characterizing Leigh is a misrepresentation, but it's a classic tactic to avoid having a discussion. Zinn is probably one of the best arguments for it. You won't read about the genocide that occurred in the history books they give to middle schoolers or high schoolers in America. You won't read about the intentional poisoning, enslavement and persecution of tens or hundreds of thousands of people. But the textbooks are not inaccurate, they do accurately represent a "vision" of history. One that is intentionally misleading, one that whitewashes and degrades history. What is important, more than anything else, is to realize it is occurring, and to speak against the misrepresentation. Leigh is representing a history which is every bit as vile as she makes it out to be, and it is only in its misrepresentation that it is being used as a weapon against her. Historically, speaking of the more heinous incidents tends to create a wave of hatred as people defend a comfortable representation of their experience.
Such a dishonest history harms any attendance to creating a more informed society. I choose to believe that most people are good people but much as James from Extra Credits argues, people have different levels of experience and making people aware that not everyone's experience is your own is important. Attempting to improve awareness is tremendously difficult, but it's impossible if nobody says anything about the troubles they're experiencing. And that's really what is occurring. A silencing effect that is a result of decades of never experiencing change (which may largely be a result of fetishistic capitalism being the so-called "guiding light" in all this). It's easy to get comfortable, it's hard to have to work for appreciation. And games want it both ways, and you can't have both. You can never have both. Creators and individuals who support them need to be aware that they are offending major sections of their audience.
And from a certain perspective? I see this as videogames in their teenage years, and if you've ever worked with teenagers, you will tend to notice that they can be smarmy shits, frequently because they are scared and need acceptance more than ever (seriously, if you've ever been ostracized or part of a clique, you're very much aware that high school is probably one of the most awful social constructs ever put upon young adults). Just my personal opinion, having taught teenagers before.
Assuming that what people present as fact can be dangerous, and it can actively harm many people in ways most are unaware. We are taught in a specific manner, to believe what is presented as fact, and that's unhelpful to people later in life. Challenging normative ideology is what's necessary to move society forward and that's exactly what Leigh is doing. Though it's assured that there will be people who are going to drag their feet, stick their head in the mud, and hope change goes away. Though I will say it's extraordinarily strange to see such conservative views out of a group that constantly state that they want "real" change in the industry. I guess this change was just too real.
Oh boy, a new "offensive" that's supposed to be starting today.
Gotta love the constant use of war language. One amusing bit, however:
I wonder why, dudes? Could it be that they think of GG as a harassment campaign because it is one?
Gotta love the constant use of war language. One amusing bit, however:
I wonder why, dudes? Could it be that they think of GG as a harassment campaign because it is one?
FF Seraphim
Member
That may be true... but watching people act/talk crazy is a hilarious way to pass the time
The author behind objective game reviews breaks character for a real talk:
http://www.objectivegamereviews.com/objective-game-reviews-gamergate/
http://www.objectivegamereviews.com/objective-game-reviews-gamergate/
chaobreaker
Member
Is it really a boycott if you're threatening a company to cut ties with a site you don't like?
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
This is all so frustratingly misguided. I wish they'd drop their stubbornness and realize people aren't out to get them because of their views (which are being contested because for the most part they are either just totally wrong or misinformed), but that people just want them to stop because they look ridiculous.
"Gamers aren't like that!" Then they act exactly like that all the time.
- Status