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[Dreams-Visions]

Welp, it's not going to happen.

It's nice to want things, though.

My mother's favorite saying when I was a kid, almost word for word. lol

 

[terrisus]

The star of TV's The Cosby Show

 

[aly]

As for Raven being 'colorless' must be a nice place to be when you have the money...

No kidding. It is always nice hearing about Raven though. I miss that show so much.

 

[snacknuts]

The term "African American" has always irked me if I'm being honest.

Black people in England aren't called "African British" they're just called British

Spoiler

or Leroy.

Me too. Charlize Theron and Dave Matthews are African.

 

[DoktorEvil]

 

[Toa TAK]

I think I understand 100% of what she's saying when she says she doesn't want to be labeled and just wants to be called an "American".

Been fighting that battle my whole life. I can't speak for being gay, but as for being looked at as my ethnicity only, it gets tiring, especially when you're ambiguously brown and no one knows what you are and what box to put you in. Yeah, of course your ethnicity and sexuality are a part of you, and others recognize that and you recognize that in others. But that doesn't define a person on its own and I think that's what she's trying to say here when she says she doesn't want to be labeled.

Raven just got +1 respect in my book. Also I watched the show on Disney Channel as a kid./shame

 

[Slayven]

It's pretty tiring to see so many successful Black people try to distance themselves from their blackness. I don't want to hear bullshit about how there's a new black or I don't see the color. For all the poor disadvantaged even middle class people you don't want to identify with race is a daily reality. And the fact that we can't get our most successful people to align with us is pretty discouraging; especially when they are the people most promoting us needing to work together for success yet not actually living it out.

It's the Nu "I am one of the good ones"

 

[Moral Panic]

Erm no, we are called British. We might have to specify our origin on paper I.e a Census but on TV you never hear Black British actor blah blah blah..

You hear black actor though.

 

[MIMIC]

i just want to say, that is incredibly raven of her.

=p

 

[terrisus]

Me too. Charlize Theron and Dave Matthews are African.

J.R.R. Tolkien too.

 

[CrazyDogg77]

It's the Nu "I am one of the good ones"

Exactly

 

[Kreed]

I probably would have worded it different than Raven did in the interview, but I get what she's attempting to say. Black is more inclusive as a label (Haitians, Jamaicans, etc...) vs African American and like she's saying, not many black people in the US/countries outside of Africa relate to/have been to Africa, similar to most of the non Native Americans in this country that don't give themselves a label that contains both their home country and their ancestral continent.

 

[SquiddyCracker]

You go person!

 

[Sai-kun]

People should be able to mentally handle being multiple things.

Everyone in America is an American. Duh. We're also a salad bowl -- not a melting pot -- of a beautiful variety of cultures, heritages, and customs. These do not need to go away or become "blended" (read: lost) into some generic culture that the majority approves of that steals meaning away from history in favor of surface shallowness.

To say that you don't see my blackness is to say that you don't see ME. You're saying you don't want to acknowledge my family, my heritage, my culture and all the things that lead to me being me that the sub-culture groomed me to be. It's to say you don't acknowledge my father who was one of the first black men to graduate at the top of his medical school class at Michigan State. It's saying you don't acknowledge the racial struggle my grandfather went through after serving in WWI. It's saying you don't acknowledge my great grandfather being raised on a plantation. It's saying you don't acknowledge my great grandmother on an Indian reservation.

No, fuck that. You'll see my roots in me. You'll see my heritage in my hair. You'll see the contribution of mine in our history books with attention paid to their ethnicity because it's paramount to many of the stories. You'll acknowledge the struggle and I won't accept being washed or "melted" out of history for convenience or to make some larger culture feel more comfortable.

Your posts are always so fucking great. Spot fucking on.

 

[CassidyIzABeast]

 

[RM8]

The truth is, labels suck. They're heavy and suffocating and everyone should be free to distance from them. To some people, being part of a group can be incredibly important and a vital part of his / her personality, while to others it might be something completely unimportant - and both are perfectly fine, IMO.

 

[Nokagi]

I probably would have worded it different than Raven did in the interview, but I get what she's attempting to say. Black is more inclusive as a label (Haitians, Jamaicans, etc...) vs African American and like she's saying, not many black people in the US/countries outside of Africa relate to/have been to Africa, similar to most of the non Native Americans in this country that don't give themselves a label that contains both their home country and their ancestral continent.

Yeah this is what I took away from it as well.

 

[KibblesBits]

I agree and disagree with statements she's made.

I'm so KibblesBits.

 

[Infinite]

Me too. Charlize Theron and Dave Matthews are African.

I don't like the term African because the Africa itself is a whole continent filled with different cultures languages and ethnicities. Charlize Theron and Dave Matthews are from South Africa.

 

[botty]

Good for her. I don't see why people can't respect her choice in the same way that we respect transsexuals and others that are self-identifying. I remember when I first realized I was Arianasexual, and how hard it was for people to accept that. Let's just keep hope alive that we'll move to a more accepting and understanding world.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I completely agree with her. Racially, I don't know what I am and like it that way.

 

[Infinite]

Good for her. I don't see why people can't respect her choice in the same way that we respect transsexuals and others that are self-identifying. I remember when I first realized I was Arianasexual, and how hard it was for people to accept that. Let's just keep hope alive that we'll move to a more accepting and understanding world.

That's all it is though; hopes and ideals.

 

[chronos4590]

Did she already forget That episode where that girl didn't want her because she doesn't like black people? Or, well, life ? I feel bad for her. All of this she's internalized and has become victim from it. I might see why she wouldn't want to identify with all the stigma we get for being black and being lesbian. But still that won't change a thing pretending like those categories while socially constructed people won't see you without looking at categories especially when you're personally stigmatized for being part of those categories.
Sorry if this sounds messy I'm posting through gaf mobile

Edit reams-Visions post is spot on!

 

[-COOLIO-]

People should be able to mentally handle being multiple things.

Everyone in America is an American. Duh. We're also a salad bowl -- not a melting pot -- of a beautiful variety of cultures, heritages, and customs. These do not need to go away or become "blended" (read: lost) into some generic culture that the majority approves of that steals meaning away from history in favor of surface shallowness.

To say that you don't see my blackness is to say that you don't see ME. You're saying you don't want to acknowledge my family, my heritage, my culture and all the things that lead to me being me that the sub-culture groomed me to be. It's to say you don't acknowledge my father who was one of the first black men to graduate at the top of his medical school class at Michigan State. It's saying you don't acknowledge the racial struggle my grandfather went through after serving in WWI. It's saying you don't acknowledge my great grandfather being raised on a plantation. It's saying you don't acknowledge my great grandmother on an Indian reservation.

No, fuck that. You'll see my roots in me. You'll see my heritage in my hair. You'll see the contribution of mine in our history books with attention paid to their ethnicity because it's paramount to many of the stories. You'll acknowledge the struggle and I won't accept being washed or "melted" out of history for convenience or to make some larger culture feel more comfortable.

So racially, if I don't know what I am, then I don't know who I am? Am I interpreting this correctly?

And raven fully acknowledges the struggle, not sure why you feel otherwise.

 

[Valkyr Junkie]

I completely agree with her. Racially, I don't know what I am and like it that way.

You're beige.

 

[JCX]

It's nice to want to be seen as something, but at the end of the day, she'll be seen as black, gay, woman. The goal should be for these identities to be accepted by all, not to just abandon them entirely.

 

[Mesousa]

I think I understand 100% of what she's saying when she says she doesn't want to be labeled and just wants to be called an "American".

Been fighting that battle my whole life. I can't speak for being gay, but as for being looked at as my ethnicity only, it gets tiring, especially when you're ambiguously brown and no one knows what you are and what box to put you in. Yeah, of course your ethnicity and sexuality are a part of you, and others recognize that and you recognize that in others. But that doesn't define a person on its own and I think that's what she's trying to say here when she says she doesn't want to be labeled.

Raven just got +1 respect in my book. Also I watched the show on Disney Channel as a kid./shame

I do think that is problematic in terms of a historically oppressed group. The label African American is taking your image in your own hands. It is like telling the oppressed group you may have enslaved me, but the sum of my being is not equal to what you have stripped from me. By just being American you are basically accepting that your identity only begins at the point in which you became an enslaved class. That does not sit right to me, which is why I am more comfortable with the term African American than even a label such as black. It is paying homage to a part of me that was actively tried to have been removed from me.

 

[Kisaya]

I can sort of relate to her about heritage. I can call myself Arab American, but I'm uncomfortable calling myself Yemeni or Yemeni-American. I don't really associate with Yemen at all aside from the fact that my parents were born there. People always find it really weird that I identify myself as an American girl from Brooklyn, and it's really because they see a WOC with (sometimes now) a headscarf.

 

[Dabanton]

Like when you're filling in a form, sure. I'm White British then.

But I mean in just general day to day life. I've never heard anyone say "Black British" or whatever. Yet I hear "African American" whenever a black american is on the TV.

Yeah I'll agree with that we don't have the signifier added in day to day dealings.

 

[-COOLIO-]

It's nice to want to be seen as something, but at the end of the day, she'll be seen as black, gay, woman. The goal should be for these identities to be accepted by all, not to just abandon them entirely.

Eventually, acceptance looks like exactly what she describes though. There's no category for people with bushy eyebrows because there's no need for the label.

 

[terrisus]

I don't like the term African because the Africa itself is a whole continent filled with different cultures languages and ethnicities. Charlize Theron and Dave Matthews are from South Africa.

Of course, people use the term "American," despite (North and South) America being comprised of quite a number of countries as well.
Although, granted, people generally just use that to mean "Someone from the United States of America"

 

[Replicant]

I think the problem here is that one does not exist in a vacuum. There are countless people judging you every day and they will label you whether you like it or not.

You can wish to be seen as unique individual and I do too. But the reality is, others may not and may simply choose to put you in the labeled box along with the others of your kind.

 

[Figboy79]

So racially, if I don't know what I am, then I don't know who I am? Am I interpreting this correctly?

And raven fully acknowledges the struggle, not sure why you feel otherwise.

I didn't interpret it that way. She's talking about herself, not you or me.

 

[RM8]

I didn't interpret it that way. She's talking about herself, not you or me.

This is why there's not a single, correct approach to this. And that's fine, everyone should be free to associate or not with any label.

 

[DoktorEvil]

The truth is, labels suck. They're heavy and suffocating and everyone should be free to distance from them. To some people, being part of a group can be incredibly important and a vital part of his / her personality, while to others it might be something completely unimportant - and both are perfectly fine, IMO.

Agreed. Labels put individuals in this limited box which has so many implications. They also carry so much baggage with them.

Raven is exercising her choice to identify as she sees fit to do so. Nothing more or less. It is idealistic to expect everyone else to do so, but we'll never be at that point in any society.

 

[Jaeger]

She's right. No one is calling all the white people "European American". It's time for that shit to stop.

 

[Volimar]

The term "African American" has always irked me if I'm being honest.

Black people in England aren't called "African British" they're just called British

Spoiler

or Leroy.

In the US, Black people from England are called African American.

This is why there's not a single, correct approach to this. And that's fine, everyone should be free to associate or not with any label.

Which is fine until people get pissy when they decide they're not going by whatever label, and you innocently call them that.

 

[scott!]

Huh. I agree with the ideas underlying atheism and find myself sitting in the bisexual range on the sexuality scale, but I find those to be two of the more controversial (in society's view) facets of my personal character and identity. I also love technology, work for a billing office, enjoy writing, play video games, hate math, and am trying to eat less meat.

I don't call myself "a" 'something'. It doesn't bother me when others label themselves, but I've never found labels very useful. They're like review scores on video games - trying to sum everything up neatly, and they're generally accurate, but what a limit it is to discourse to remove context!

 

[Toa TAK]

I do think that is problematic in terms of a historically oppressed group. The label African American is taking your image in your own hands. It is like telling the oppressed group you may have enslaved me, but the sum of my being is not equal to what you have stripped from me. By just being American you are basically accepting that your identity only begins at the point in which you became an enslaved class. That does not sit right to me, which is why I am more comfortable with the term African American than even a label such as black. It is paying homage to a part of me that was actively tried to have been removed from me.

Okay. I can completely understand why you would embrace that. At least as much as someone who isn't an African American can. You guys have a history that looking in from the outside, is pretty powerful and the story of your people coming into this country up to present day standing up for yourselves amongst icons in that story is still ongoing. There's a lot to admire there, again, as someone from the outside looking in.

 

[RM8]

Which is fine until people get pissy when they decide they're not going by whatever label, and you innocently call them that.

The goal is not to avoid being called a word, the goal is not being "boxed" within the strict limitations of a particular label. The goal is not being perceived as a [group] person, but simply as a person.

 

[Infinite]

Of course, people use the term "American," despite (North and South) America being comprised of quite a number of countries as well.
Although, granted, people generally just use that to mean "Someone from the United States of America"

literally not the same comparison. Africa is a continent composed of several different nationalities. Those nations are home to different cultures languages customs and ethnicities. America is a single nation but like you alluded to there's regional differences between them. Understanding that you should know why it's silly to look at the continent if Africa and just homogenize everything from it. Also in case I wasn't clear Charlize Theron and Dave Matthews are both from the country South Africa

Think I slightly misread you?

 

[Kinitari]

I don't think I could sympathize or agree with her more.

It's nice talking about my background for example, but it sometimes gets tiring when it's a focal point. I would hate being in the US and have to be called African American.

Just... let her be happy people. If she feels no desire, no want or need to be deeply tied to African American culture, or gay culture, then great. Let her be happy with who she is, and don't burden her with an identity she doesn't want.

Sure, not everyone will give her that kindness, but everyone should.

 

[Katzenjammer]

The goal is not to avoid being called a word, the goal is not being "boxed" within the strict limitations of a particular label. The goal is not being perceived as a [group] person, but simply as a person.

Aye. I don't like calling myself gay and make sure to avoid it in conversation. That label implies so many things that don't apply to me, and I feel like I am so much more than just a facet of my biology that I was born with and can't change.

 

[-COOLIO-]

I don't think I could sympathize or agree with her more.

It's nice talking about my background for example, but it sometimes gets tiring when it's a focal point. I would hate being in the US and have to be called African American.

Just... let her be happy people. If she feels no desire, no want or need to be deeply tied to African American culture, or gay culture, then great. Let her be happy with who she is, and don't burden her with an identity she doesn't want.

Sure, not everyone will give her that kindness, but everyone should.

Yup

 

[railGUN]

literally not the same comparison. Africa is a continent composed of several different nationalities. Those nations are home to different cultures languages customs and ethnicities. America is a single nation but like you alluded to there's regional differences between them. Understanding that you should know why it's silly to look at the continent if Africa and just homogenize everything from it. Also in case I wasn't clear Charlize Theron and Dave Matthews are both from the country South Africa

Think I slightly misread you?

He's referring to North America, and South America.

I live in North America, yet I'm Canadian.

 

[SykoTech]

I can understand the African American thing, but saying she wants to be labeled "a colorless person" is just silly.

You're still black Raven, regardless of the exact knowledge of your roots. Doesn't mean you have to dedication yourself to "black traditions" or whatever, but I think it's a silly thing to try to deny.

 

[jordan0386]

Rich black people stay running away from being black.

Her take on roots is an interesting answer. But baby girl, you still one of us

Sigh, only one left seems to be Gambino and Killer Mike.

 

[terrisus]

literally not the same comparison. Africa is a continent composed of several different nationalities. Those nations are home to different cultures languages customs and ethnicities. America is a single nation but like you alluded to there's regional differences between them. Understanding that you should know why it's silly to look at the continent if Africa and just homogenize everything from it. Also in case I wasn't clear Charlize Theron and Dave Matthews are both from the country South Africa

Think I slightly misread you?

North America and South America are continents.

Why should I call myself an "American" when someone from, say, Brazil or Chile or Argentina are from (South) "America?"

He's referring to North America, and South America.

I live in North America, yet I'm Canadian.

Yeah, that.

 

[DoktorEvil]

North America and South America are continents.

Why should I call myself an "American" when someone from, say, Brazil or Chile or Argentina are from (South) "America?"

Yeah, that.

What would you call yourself then? The country we mostly live in is called "United States of America".

 

[Seth C]

People hate labels when there are serious negative stereotypes towards them. It's a minority thing. You don't see too many people in the majority crying about labels.

Eh. I don't go around telling people I'm a straight white English-Scottish-American either.