#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014

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The part that entirely boggles my mind is the "support of disgusting and illegal behavior". He's never condoned such actions, in fact, he condemns the harassment and doxxing on both sides of this situation. As we all should, because harassment of any kind is purely unacceptable, a large reason as to why I'm staying neutral.

He kept saying how hurtful it was to claim GG was harassing people and really wanted to keep using it but without having the connotation of being lumped with the lunatics.
I guess a mod got sick of this shite....especially after he publicly blasted someone for having an opinion.
 
The part that entirely boggles my mind is the "support of disgusting and illegal behavior". He's never condoned such actions, in fact, he condemns the harassment and doxxing on both sides of this situation. As we all should, because harassment of any kind is purely unacceptable, a large reason as to why I'm staying neutral.

Whilst this is true, it seems that it's getting to the point whereby the hashtag movement is almost more associated with the misogyny and personal attacks than it is dealing with the issues around games journalism.

I have my own issues with the games press, and I've been very vocal on here about these issues. I've probably never been as vocal about these matter as I have been in the last 18 months if I'm honest. That being said, I won't associate my views with #gamergate as I believe in doing so, it dilutes and corrupts the point I'm trying to make.

Whilst it's everyone's right to express their views how they wish, people have to accept that framing your viewpoint in a certain way will open up the opportunity for people to focus on the wrong things.
 
The part that entirely boggles my mind is the "support of disgusting and illegal behavior". He's never condoned such actions, in fact, he condemns the harassment and doxxing on both sides of this situation. As we all should, because harassment of any kind is purely unacceptable, a large reason as to why I'm staying neutral.

If someone can point me to where he "disingenuously ignored the actions of -- a movement of harassment and hate", because I don't really see that.

They way I see it he always spoke out against it, from the start :(
 
Boogie just posted this on his tumbkr -

http://boogie2988.tumblr.com/post/99943773543/in-reference-to-that-ban-on-neogaf

That really should have been a temp ban at most. Sad to see a voice like his get silenced from the forums.

As Boogie said himself, a 24 hour ban would have made sense, but I'm not one to tell mods how to do their job. That isn't my place. And I'd have to agree, it's a shame to see him be silenced on GAF... I really do hope he will be able to take a break from all this soon. Seeing him have a nervous breakdown of harassmant going towards him (as well as being doxxed), was upsetting.
 
The part that entirely boggles my mind is the "support of disgusting and illegal behavior". He's never condoned such actions, in fact, he condemns the harassment and doxxing on both sides of this situation.

I think they are essentially accusing him of lying; the word tacit is used before the claim he supports harassment. It essentially means "Without being said".
 
Whilst this is true, it seems that it's getting to the point whereby the hashtag movement is almost more associated with the misogyny and personal attacks than it is dealing with the issues around games journalism.

I have my own issues with the games press, and I've been very vocal on here about these issues. I've probably never been as vocal about these matter as I have been in the last 18 months if I'm honest. That being said, I won't associate my views with #gamergate as I believe in doing so, it dilutes and corrupts the point I'm trying to make.

Whilst it's everyone's right to express their views how they wish, people have to accept that framing your viewpoint in a certain way will open up the opportunity for people to focus on the wrong things.

Thats my problem as well and I really don't understand why Boogie or anyone else who is thinking like he does (condemning those attacking women and also wanting more accountability in games journalism and not blaming all gamers for the bad people within GG itself) keeps trying to defend the GG tag, what about the tag itself is so important that you need to defend it despite its origins as a hate campaign? Why not simply start up a new tag that better defines what they believe?
 
It was fairly obvious posting on Neogaf wasn't doing him any good personally, the final sentence of his ban honestly makes me feel like the reason for his ban was his own admission that neogaf wasn't good for him/he should quit posting rather than his views.

We have people in this thread much more in favor of #GG than Boogie ever was, but they don't get as emotionally invested to a fault in the discussion.
 
Just remove yourself from the #GameGate tag. Stop hiding behind the muslim analogy.

Lets move to the actual discussion of the ethics. Lets leave behind all the hate and bullshit that comes with #GameGate.

Why is the tag so important?

Be an individual, and people will treat you like one.
 
Thats my problem as well and I really don't understand why Boogie or anyone else who is thinking like he does (condemning those attacking women and also wanting more accountability in games journalism and not blaming all gamers for the bad people within GG itself) keeps trying to defend the GG tag, what about the tag itself is so important that you need to defend it despite its origins as a hate campaign? Why not simply start up a new tag that better defines what they believe?

Doesn't he make money doing all of this?

Just a thought.
 
If someone can point me to where he "disingenuously ignored the actions of -- a movement of harassment and hate", because I don't really see that.

They way I see it he always spoke out against it, from the start :(

He's openly been against harassment from the very start. Thought he had made that clear personally, but I could have been wrong...

I think they are essentially accusing him of lying; the word tacit is used before the claim he supports harassment. It essentially means "Without being said".

That would make sense. But has he done a single thing to make it seem like he's even remotely lying? He seems amazingly passionate when it comes to his beliefs and everything he's said when it comes to GG.
 
I think if you and Boogie are really interested in opening a broader discussion of consumer reporting ethics and video games, which I think is certainly an interesting topic especially as the medium moves more away from niche sites to a broader community and youtube driven culture, then you'd have a better job being heard using a different tag than one that has been used like that one has. I applaud the attempt, but when you have people planning 'Operations' against 'The Enemy' as part of your movement it's hard to be heard over all the confusion and anger associated with it.

Seriously.

Why people even bother to try to "clean up" what is a hate movement when they could just as easily just advocate for X without copy pasting some meaningless buzz word they don't even believe in or understand .... I will never know.

The fact that the hastag to that tweet even was #GamerGate makes me suspicious about the intent.

Just remove yourself from the #GameGate tag. Stop hiding behind the muslim analogy.

Lets move to the actual discussion of the ethics. Lets leave behind all the hate and bullshit that comes with #GameGate.

Why is the tag so important?

Be an individual, and people will treat you like one.

This.
 
I am finding it hard feeling all that bad about this after seeing his meltdown this morning. The tag is viewed as toxic, that's just a fact at this point. If you want to be "moderate" you need to distance yourself from it. There is no end game for this shit, the "movement" is just going to keep hurting others by giving the people doing these horrific things a shield to hide behind.
 
It was fairly obvious posting on Neogaf wasn't doing him any good personally, the final sentence of his ban honestly makes me feel like the reason for his ban was his own admission that neogaf wasn't good for him/he should quit posting rather than his views.

We have people in this thread much more in favor of #GG than Boogie ever was, but they don't get as emotionally invested to a fault in the discussion.

Boogie's stance through all of this seemed to read as "I'll take the burden of all of this from both sides of this until it reaches the point that no one fights anymore". It was a little self-destructive and damaging, honestly. Constant apologizing for actions you have no act in taking, wanting to control a message you can't control, and taking lashing from both sides because of it.

No wonder he's so stressed out. Instead of trying to be a buffer in all of this, Boogie needs to do what he's saying he wants to do... take a step back, play video games, and make more videos.
 
I don't think Riposte is talking about the creators of the hashtag, but people "jumping in" later.

If so, why erase history like that? Leigh Alexander's piece absolutely could not have been the cause of Gamergate. It was a very laudable attempt to condemn the crap that was already going on. I don't buy the "johnny-come-lately" nonsense either. The Gamergate people spent weeks trying to accuse game journalists of "racketeering" and "colluding". Then there was the absolutely disgusting ongoing harassment of women in gaming. Remember the attempts to "prove" that Anita Sarkeesian lied about going to the police, and that Zoe Quinn didn't give money from Depression Quest to charity? What did that all have to do with Leigh Alexander?

No, the Leigh Alexander thing was just another way to blame the press and provide cover for their disgusting, inhuman activities against women in gaming.
 
It was fairly obvious posting on Neogaf wasn't doing him any good personally, the final sentence of his ban honestly makes me feel like the reason for his ban was his own admission that neogaf wasn't good for him/he should quit posting rather than his views.

We have people in this thread much more in favor of #GG than Boogie ever was, but they don't get as emotionally invested to a fault in the discussion.

Yeah, whatever my disagreements with him, I do think he meant well. Those "I wish I were dead" posts are genuinely worrisome, and I hope the ban is good for him. :/
 
That would make sense. But has he done a single thing to make it seem like he's even remotely lying? He seems amazingly passionate when it comes to his beliefs and everything he's said when it comes to GG.

Haven't been following this too much.

But I did spend about an hour early reading what was going on in the thread..

Seemed like at the very least he was being a bit disingenuous here?

Playing the "super constructive empathetic guy" card.. while turning around and saying not very constructive things on Twitter and elsewhere?

Under normal circumstances I don't think GAF would care if someone is inconsistent across here and Twitter and elsewhere, but when you are a person making money on the internet talking about things maybe they take that into account and hold you to a higher standard?

Not a thought worth having, nobody flings themselves in that type of an anxious depression for vague hard-to-describe money. (he's also pissed off the #GG crowd as well at various points)

You don't think even subconsciously someone who makes money from the attention they receive might cling to a label that was getting them extra attention?

Just seems rather obvious to me... "Why isn't the guy making money on YouTube abaondoning a popular hashtag / movement?"

I consider it a thought worth having. You are welcome to take people at face value but that's not really how our brains work. I'm not accusing the guy of being a money grubbing asshole or anything.. just saying it does give him "a reason" to continue using Gamergate.
 
Thats my problem as well and I really don't understand why Boogie or anyone else who is thinking like he does (condemning those attacking women and also wanting more accountability in games journalism and not blaming all gamers for the bad people within GG itself) keeps trying to defend the GG tag, what about the tag itself is so important that you need to defend it despite its origins as a hate campaign? Why not simply start up a new tag that better defines what they believe?

to people who believe in a cause, changing the name of their "movement" is tantamount to admitting you screwed up somehow or the other side "won". The same reason feminists don't want to change their name despite there being some pretty hard core, outright totalitarian and hateful groups and people using that banner. Granted they have managed to separate that segment from their main movement, but to many people it's still one and the same. Also as the name seems to imply female, a lot of males are not already feminists don't get how they can include them.

But after doing some thought on the subject, I am beginning to think it probably is best if people who do support the cause of more transparent and ethical video game reporting should consider moving to a different tag now because they won't accomplish much other than having companies pull more ad revenue as they will have to spend more time fighting to "rehab" the tag than accomplishing any of their goals.
 
This part is so goddamn true. He seemed like such a goddamn drama queen, honestly. I agree he needed the time off, if he's really so deeply affected by what happens on the forum.
I think he does that unconsciously and with good intentions. Unfortunately it doesn't come off that way.

Blind with passion.
 
While I think Boogie is genuine I also think he keeps sending mixed messages due to simply not thinking things through enough. So he posts about how he's against the parts of GG that try to shut down contrary opinions, then acts super-insulted about one review of Bayonetta 2 marking it down for the writer's opinions on it's approach to Woman (the kind of thing that exemplifies some of the worst parts of GG).
 
While I think Boogie is genuine I also think he keeps sending mixed messages due to simply not thinking things through enough. So he posts about how he's against the parts of GG that try to shut down contrary opinions, then acts super-insulted about one review of Bayonetta 2 marking it down for the writer's opinions on it's approach to Woman (the kind of review that just so happens to make some of the worst parts of GG apoplectic).

It sometime seemed like his Twitter self and his NeoGAF self were two different people.
 
It sometime seemed like his Twitter self and his NeoGAF self were two different people.

Yeah. I never followed the dude till i began following this thread, but he seemed very.. fragile on NEOGAF to the point of I was genuinely worried he would hurt himself, but on Twitter he seemed far more able to deal with things. I don't know, it was a bit strange. But seeing how he was going downhill on GAF this morning him not being able to participate in this conversation is probably best for him and his safety.

No need for someone to get hurt over videogames.
 
Under normal circumstances I don't think GAF would care if someone is inconsistent across here and Twitter and elsewhere, but when you are a person making money on the internet talking about things maybe they take that into account and hold you to a higher standard?

It's very worth noting he's more passionate and emotionally invested in this than most. Hell he's even stated his standing in the matter is hard for even him to explain. I honestly feel he just needs to take a break, and over time properly compile his thoughts in more of a coherent manner.
 
He admitted when discussing 4chan that he "Adopts the language" of a given community to better communicate with them.

Ah, yeah, I remember that.

Beyond his language though, I just don't understand how anything he said here yesterday/this morning jibes with his tweets about Polygon's Bayonetta review.
 
He admitted when discussing 4chan that he "Adopts the language" of a given community to better communicate with them.

And it's quite natural for people to act differently in different social contexts. Too bad that some of those contexts, like 4chan, make people say much more toxic things than they would have said otherwise (and should have known better to avoid saying them).
 
I have very little sympathy for anyone who uses "Are people in England homophobic for smoking?!" as an argument.

Thats a pretty shitty thing to say (I haven't followed this thread all that closely) but - In all fairness this is a tweet from his ongoing response to being banned.

https://twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/521797483463467009

@Boogie2988
Truth is, I guess most Bigots don't know that they're bigots.
I should really self reflect on that and try to come out better for it.
 
Thats my problem as well and I really don't understand why Boogie or anyone else who is thinking like he does (condemning those attacking women and also wanting more accountability in games journalism and not blaming all gamers for the bad people within GG itself) keeps trying to defend the GG tag, what about the tag itself is so important that you need to defend it despite its origins as a hate campaign? Why not simply start up a new tag that better defines what they believe?

I feel as though the resolution in this matter lies in this sentence.

Be an individual, and people will treat you like one.

Movements and hashtags and the like are very easily hijacked by the loudest voices. You can start whatever movement you want with the best of intentions, but as movements grow, you lose direct control over the message being put out, and before you know it, you are associated with some other persons viewpoint and the integrity of your own views is compromised as a result.

My own views are as follows:

- I openly condemn all acts of misogyny and intimidation, whether made under the gamergate name or not.

- I do not believe there is widespread corruption in the games industry, but I do believe certain outlets do not have the best interests of the consumer at heart, which is extremely disappointing considering how highly some of these are/were regarded in the gaming community.

- I play video games as a hobby, which I am very passionate about.

However, regardless of whether any of the above viewpoints overlap, I do not associate any of my views with #gamergate, #notallgamers, or any other hashtag movement. People can identify me as a "gamer" in the current sense if they wish to do so, but certainly I'm the current climate, it is not something I will associate myself as being. Right now, that to me seems to be the only way to maintain any semblance of integrity.
 
Ah, yeah, I remember that.

Beyond his language though, I just don't understand how anything he said here yesterday/this morning jibes with his tweets about Polygon's Bayonetta review.

Yeah... I devoted a lot of time on a post about what he wanted to see out gamergate, and it was to somebody who wouldn't be making those tweets. It was to someone who'd call out those tweets... So it felt like a waste of time.
 
Seriously.

Why people even bother to try to "clean up" what is a hate movement when they could just as easily just advocate for X without copy pasting some meaningless buzz word they don't even believe in or understand .... I will never know.

"I'm going to join this white supremacy party to change it from within in the hope of turning it into a movement about the structural problems with hiring processes!"

I've seriously told people that they need to jump off the Gamergate train for months now. Even now, there are people, when told of the literal fact that "Gamergate is causing physical and psychological damage to real-life people", who simply refuse to stop because they don't want to be silent about the important issues of ethics (read: they don't want women speaking their opinion or having a social network in the games industry). These are acceptable losses in the quest for Ethics in Games Journalism, and instead, they think that everyone telling them about the harm Gamergate is causing has been brainwashed by leftist press and the feminist cohorts.

Some of these people are in their 30's. Some have friends and families, and a job position somewhere. It's scary.
 
That was honestly something I expected to see happen when he was still a junior. His behaviour was really perplexing. The guy gets mad over people writing about how gamer stereotypes are toxic, when he made a name for himself with a character who is a parody of gamer stereotypes. And he goes on about how important ethics are in gaming journalism, while doing advertorials for game publishers on YouTube. Not to mention the fact that his posts here really do seem like they come from a different person to his tweets and 4chan posts.

I'm not suggesting that he's a bad guy or anything, but he has repeatedly given me the impression of being someone who wants to have their cake and eat it too.
 
to people who believe in a cause, changing the name of their "movement" is tantamount to admitting you screwed up somehow or the other side "won". The same reason feminists don't want to change their name despite there being some pretty hard core, outright totalitarian and hateful groups and people using that banner. Granted they have managed to separate that segment from their main movement, but to many people it's still one and the same. Also as the name seems to imply female, a lot of males are not already feminists don't get how they can include them.

But after doing some thought on the subject, I am beginning to think it probably is best if people who do support the cause of more transparent and ethical video game reporting should consider moving to a different tag now because they won't accomplish much other than having companies pull more ad revenue as they will have to spend more time fighting to "rehab" the tag than accomplishing any of their goals.

The difference though is that Gamergate was created by people who DID want to create a hate campaign against Women and use people like Boogie and others to defend it while they continued to attack and harass women, Feminism has always been about womens rights, it only later attracted radicals.

And yes I agree the latter part of your statement, at this point they have to endless defend themselves against their own inter workings then actually have a real dialog on whats wrong with games Journalism and other issues effecting our industry.
 
I sympathize with Boogie, but I just didn't understand his logic at all. He condemned the bad parts of gamergate, and repeatedly listed his core motivations, but none of them were exclusive gamergate philosophies so I just don't see what benefit at all comes from supporting them. Many Westboro Baptist Church beliefs are shared by Christians, but it just isn't common sense to say "I'll stick by them because I want to support all Christians, but I condemn the homophobia and picketing".

What's the point? We're all gamers; if you want to stand up for gamers and their rights, do it as an individual without boxing yourself in with a more than questionable crowd credited with a number of disgusting and vile acts. It would have saved him the baggage of having to dish out a thousand caveats every time he comments on it just to protect the few well meaning but misguided people who want to use the hashtag, when instead he should be promoting awareness so that well meaning gamers know to not use it in the first place.
 
I bet that if Boogie re-read the tweet calling a reviewer 'the worst kind of person' for having a different opinion of a game 24 hours from now, he'd agree it was not kind, not the kind of thing he supports. But sometimes you need distance to see it.

A lot of people in gamergate honestly feel as if gaming itself is being attacked when someone doesn't like a game based on it's representation of women or other personal issues. They read that someone felt uncomfortable with the art in Dragon's crown as, "You are an awful person if you like this game." or even, "You are a loser who plays games like this." I don't have the same reaction so it's hard for me to emphasize exactly with that, but I honestly think that for whatever reason that is how a lot of earnest #gamergate people hear criticism based on social issues. That's why their reaction is to go on the attack. I'm not sure how to fix this.

I might have felt that same way if this had come and I was 10 years younger, who knows. But now when I read criticism I think, "Cool, gaming is growing up, I'm prouder than ever that this medium is being taken seriously as art."
 
I sympathize with Boogie, but I just didn't understand his logic at all. He condemned the bad parts of gamergate, and repeatedly listed his core motivations, but none of them were exclusive gamergate philosophies so I just don't see what benefit at all comes from supporting them. Many Westboro Baptist Church beliefs are shared by Christians, but it just isn't common sense to say "I'll stick by them because I want to support all Christians, but I condemn the homophobia and picketing".

What's the point? We're all gamers; if you want to stand up for gamers and their rights, do it as an individual without boxing yourself in with a more than questionable crowd credited with a number of disgusting and vile acts. It would have saved him the baggage of having to dish out a thousand caveats every time he comments on it just to protect the few well meaning but misguided people who want to use the hashtag, when instead he should be promoting awareness so that well meaning gamers know to not use it in the first place.

I feel like it's a knee-jerk reaction akin to what happens when someone's religion is attacked, no matter what the context.
 
Apologize for being lazy but can someone give me a tl;dr of this whole nonsense?

I read an article on it but I'm still confused.

Basically just want to know the the different sides of this thing are.
 
Apologize for being lazy but can someone give me a tl;dr of this whole nonsense?

I read an article on it but I'm still confused.

Basically just want to know the the different sides of this thing are.

I have very little idea of what this has turned into.

It was about equality and some girl having sex and an ex plastering news about, but now it's like the whole walls are caving in around games journalism. I have never been so confused in my entire life.
 
From the vast majority of posts here, it really made no sense to me why he would want to put his lot with the #GG crowd. But if he really feels that way about reviews like Arthur's it makes sense, I guess.
 
to people who believe in a cause, changing the name of their "movement" is tantamount to admitting you screwed up somehow or the other side "won". The same reason feminists don't want to change their name despite there being some pretty hard core, outright totalitarian and hateful groups and people using that banner. Granted they have managed to separate that segment from their main movement, but to many people it's still one and the same. Also as the name seems to imply female, a lot of males are not already feminists don't get how they can include them.

But after doing some thought on the subject, I am beginning to think it probably is best if people who do support the cause of more transparent and ethical video game reporting should consider moving to a different tag now because they won't accomplish much other than having companies pull more ad revenue as they will have to spend more time fighting to "rehab" the tag than accomplishing any of their goals.

People screwed up the minute they jumped on the Gamergate hashtag and started supporting it. Meanwhile, everyone else were telling them that it was rooted in misogyny and it was a terrible and imprudent thing to join, yet people kept their fingers in their ears while women around them were terrorized left and right.

Because of either 1) some woman had sex with a man at one point in time, 2) some woman wrote a mean thing about gamers in an article on the Internet, or 3) someone once donated money to a game developer.

Consequently, the perception of gamer identity and video game culture and industry as socially awkward nerds who have no knowledge and understanding of people different from themselves has been confirmed over and over again by Gamergate.

I wouldn't blame anyone from deciding not to take part in this culture and industry.

Apologize for being lazy but can someone give me a tl;dr of this whole nonsense?

I read an article on it but I'm still confused.

Basically just want to know the the different sides of this thing are.

A run-down of the events in Gawker: http://gawker.com/what-is-gamergate...m_source=gawker_twitter&utm_medium=socialflow

The approach you have to decide on in The Guardian: http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2014/oct/13/gamergate-right-wing-no-neutral-stance?CMP=twt_gu

Kotaku on the no-tolerance: http://kotaku.com/another-woman-in-gaming-flees-home-following-death-thre-1645280338
 
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