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[Zia]

So in the end, Anita's video series managed to make her look bad, make developers look bad, make publishers look bad, make the media look bad, and make gamers look bad.

And after all that, nothing will change.

Worth it, Anita?....

How embarrassing.

 

[Garrett Hawke]

The most important thing to bring away from this imo regardless on whether or not you agree with Anita is that she managed to get feminism and video games to the front page of the NY Times, which is important. Hopefully that alone will bring a massive amount of attention this issue.

 

[Doc Holliday]

So in the end, Anita's video series managed to make her look bad, make developers look bad, make publishers look bad, make the media look bad, and make gamers look bad.

And after all that, nothing will change.

Worth it, Anita?....

Lol wtf?

I think it's funny that her videos would go unnoticed for the most part if it's want for the rage of gamers. I didn't even agree with a lot of what she says but the reaction is kind of proving her point

 

[Oersted]

So in the end, Anita's video series managed to make her look bad, make developers look bad, make publishers look bad, make the media look bad, and make gamers look bad.

And after all that, nothing will change.

Worth it, Anita?....

I always wanted to say something so wrong, that not even the opposite is true. You are now my hero.

 

[Gentleman Jack]

So in the end, Anita's video series managed to make her look bad, make developers look bad, make publishers look bad, make the media look bad, and make gamers look bad.

And after all that, nothing will change.

Worth it, Anita?....

What a terrible, terrible post, riddled with assumptions of popular perception and who is to blame for what's happened since Anita posted a video on the internet about women in video games.

 

[leazo]

I do not agree with either side in this whole thing but the best action actual companies can take at this point is to just shut up to protect their own asses and stay out of it, nothing good will come their way by getting involved in the toxic mess that is gamergate and that goes towards both sides of it.

 

[Nabbis]

I really don't get the logic in threats. If you hate Anita's opinion, this is the most counter-productive way of dealing with it.

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Apathy doesn't cause bad shit but it allows bad shit to happen

 

[FF Seraphim]

I do not know why anyone expected the Companies to say anything. It isn't in their best interest to for one, and it would of just been a simple message saying something along the lines of "We want everyone to be able to play our games" or something to that effect.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

We already have a catch all #gamergate thread, but this is new news on the issue, and thus deserving of a new thread solely about recent events. Importantly we’re getting commentary, or a lack thereof, from games companies. There is a thread in the OT on the Utah State death threats focused on the gun control angle, but I think there is a relevant discussion to be had here from the games angle.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/10/16/t...omen-video-game-threats-anita-sarkeesian.html



Personally I think it’s shocking that EA, Activision and TakeTwo declined to make any comment against these death threats. Letting the ESA handle it is not enough.

Now that this issue has reached the front page of one of the most widely read newspapers in America, do games companies need to step forward and address the issue of violence against women who participate in gaming culture?

Well, there is a big Ebola case that kind of scares a lot of people

 

[Lime]

IGN, Gamespot, Polygon, etc. are more damnable in their lack of action taken against this.

 

[Lucinice]

Man everything just feels like it's been imploding on itself recently.

 

[ponpo]

IGN, Gamespot, Polygon, etc. are more damnable in their lack of action taken against this.

What 'action' should they take?

'Dear random people please stop emailing and/or tweeting threats'?

 

[Lime]

Apathy doesn't cause bad shit but it allows bad shit to happen

Boom there it is.

 

[Oddduck]

Yep, wouldn't want a company saying that death threats are a bad thing.

Let's also forget that the large publishers were direct actors in almost every confirmed case of corruption in the games media.

You make it sound so simple.

I think these two users in this thread sum up my response to you:

I think it probably goes without saying any public body is going to condemn death threats and the like?

Any chiming in would just look like trying to capitalise on bad news.

Individual companies shouldn't make individual comments: that's exactly the work of industry organizations. And the Entertainment Software Association did exactly that as quoted in the article.

 

[LaserBuddha]

I do not agree with either side in this whole thing but the best action actual companies can take at this point is to just shut up to protect their own asses and stay out of it, nothing good will come their way by getting involved in the toxic mess that is gamergate and that goes towards both sides of it.

False equivalences are nice and comfy, aren't they?

 

[Lime]

What 'action' should they take?

'Dear random people please stop emailing and/or tweeting threats'?

"When you decline to create or to curate a culture in your spaces, you’re responsible for what spawns in the vacuum."

 

[BeatResetsTheWorld]

Why should the companies have any say? Do the parents of these people also need to comment as well, if we're expecting anyone who had any sort of influence on them to have a say

 

[Jigorath]

What exactly do you expect game companies to say?

 

[Gestault]

Boom there it is.

To the handful of individuals taking actions which are already socially and legally indefensible, do you believe a statement from a company only loosely connected to the situation would prevent it from happening?

 

[UnrealEck]

Now that this issue has reached the front page of one of the most widely read newspapers in America, do games companies need to step forward and address the issue of violence against women who participate in gaming culture?

Only if they do the same regarding the violence against men who participate in gaming culture. Equality and stuff.

 

[jakonovski]

Definitely a weird sense of "they have to do something" going on. At the center are motherfuckers crazy enough to send death threats. Nobody except the police can handle that.

 

[Lime]

For those who don't think game companies are in part responsible for gamers' dehumanization of women, Manveer Heir (lead designer of ME4) is of this opinion:

emphasis on tacit approval

 

[Kinyou]

I really don't get the logic in threats. If you hate Anita's opinion, this is the most counter-productive way of dealing with it.

Pretty much. But instead of trying to go after these guys half the gamergate crowd tries to prove that Anita faked the threats which makes them look even worse.

 

[Angelus Errare]

Only if they do the same regarding the violence against men who participate in gaming culture. Equality and stuff.

Ugh more of this trite shit.

 

[ponpo]

"When you decline to create or to curate a culture in your spaces, you’re responsible for what spawns in the vacuum."

Game companies aren't responsible for people emailing and tweeting anything. It's not 'in their space' at all.

 

[Buzzman]

To the handful of individuals taking actions which are already socially and legally indefensible, do you believe a statement from a company only loosely connected to the situation would prevent it from happening?

The problem is that for the people in the GG bubble, this is socially acceptable.
They think developers support them in their fight against the evil SJWs.

 

[watershed]

What 'action' should they take?

'Dear random people please stop emailing and/or tweeting threats'?

They could recognized the importance or relevance of what Anita is attempting to address and enter the conversation as major video game websites are drivers in the video game community.

They could condemn immature and potentially dangerous Internet behavior much like sites moderate comments.

There are plenty of 'actions' websites, developers, and publishers could do to engage with the social and political aspects of this multibillion dollar industrym

 

[Lime]

To the handful of individuals taking actions which are already socially and legally indefensible, do you believe a statement from a company only loosely connected to the situation would prevent it from happening?

Large-scale and collective denouncement across the board send strong signals by especially powerholders in this culture not only to the extremists, but most importantly to the moderates and the ones not in the know that this is a situation that is simply deplorable and should be condemned on all fronts.

Game companies aren't responsible for people emailing and tweeting anything. It's not 'in their space' at all.

You don't think "video game culture" is the space of video game companies and that they don't have any influence on it?

 

[Massive Duck. C.M.]

Complete this statement: I benefit from pubs/devs remaining silent on Gamergate because______

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

False equivalences are nice and comfy, aren't they?

I saw a lot desingenuity in thiis past months by "both sides" of the spectrum. I'm not exactly trhilled to hear that Anita got another death threat but I will not lie and don't say that the only real accomplishements this months has been "escalation of conflict".

The problem is that for the people in the GG bubble, this is socially acceptable.
They think developers support them in their fight against the evil SJWs.

Since when? That boat sailed a long ago with Adam Baldwin....

 

[JDSN]

I do not agree with either side in this whole thing but the best action actual companies can take at this point is to just shut up to protect their own asses and stay out of it, nothing good will come their way by getting involved in the toxic mess that is gamergate and that goes towards both sides of it.

Really? You dont agree with the side that wants folk to stop harassing voices that they consider dissenting and want to create a chilling effect on the industry that they pretend to love? Dont give me that "both sides are equally bad" BS from The Witcher, there is a side that is asking the industry to give its best (with industry people thanking them), and other that has Adam "Obama created Ebola" Baldwin.

 

[Goon Boon]

Pretty much. But instead of trying to go after these guys half the gamergate crowd tries to prove that Anita faked the threats which makes them look even worse.

What's your plan that would actually work to go after them? How would you track down people who stay anonymous and may or may not be involved in the main movement?

If someone who lives in France bounces their IP to Switzerland then South Africa, then doxes/threatens someone from that location, how are individuals going to do anything to stop them?

 

[Tiktaalik]

Yeah I don't understand why any game publisher or even developer would need to comment on the matter.
Its a sticky situation and it's not like either could offer much.

Part of their customer base is being harassed and getting death threats. I think games companies should acknowledge that this is happening and condemn it. I think they risk sending a signal to their customers that they don't care that this is happening.

 

[ponpo]

They could recognized the importance or relevance of what Anita is attempting to address and enter the conversation as major video game websites are drivers in the video game community.

They could condemn immature and potentially dangerous Internet behavior much like sites moderate comments.

There are plenty of 'actions' websites, developers, and publishers could do to engage with the social and political aspects of this multibillion dollar industrym

Sites moderate comments on their own sites. These kinds of threats aren't (generally) being done inside games on EA's servers or whatever. I don't think they need to acknowledge obviously condemnable emails being sent about school shootings.

You don't think "video game culture" is the space of video game companies and that they don't have any influence on it?

I think there has to be a line to be drawn somewhere where we can say 'this has nothing to do with video games anymore'. I know it's Anita and everything but I don't think someone threatening to shoot up a University talk is doing so because of any relation to gaming.

 

[JordanN]

Publishers aren't responsible. But they can start doing more to make gaming more positive for women.

Before I lost my thread posting privileges, I wanted to make a thread asking how could we get Microsoft,Sony and Nintendo to start holding annual conventions for making women feel safer in the industry. :/

 

[Biker19]

This is crazy.

I hope that someone like the police or the FBI are looking into this.

So in the end, Anita's video series managed to make her look bad, make developers look bad, make publishers look bad, make the media look bad, and make gamers look bad.

And after all that, nothing will change.

Worth it, Anita?....

Is this post serious? C'mon, man.

 

[Gestault]

Large-scale and collective denouncement across the board send strong signals by especially powerholders in this culture not only to the extremists, but most importantly to the moderates and the ones not in the know that this is a situation that is simply deplorable and should be condemned on all fronts.

I think applying this idea to the current situation is preposterous. You suggested a stern denouncement from publishers barely related to the situation would have had the power to prevent the threats. These are individual behaviors which amount to terrorism, and they're deliberately anti-social.

 

[Guevara]

Large-scale and collective denouncement across the board send strong signals by especially powerholders in this culture not only to the extremists, but most importantly to the moderates and the ones not in the know that this is a situation that is simply deplorable and should be condemned on all fronts.

The Entertainment Software Association is a large industry group. It represents the following members

• 345 Games
• 505 Games
• Activision Blizzard
• Bandai Namco Games America Inc.
• Capcom USA, Inc.
• Deep Silver
• DeNA
• Disney Interactive Studios, Inc.
• Electronic Arts
• Epic Games, Inc.
• Focus Home Interactive
• gloops International Inc.
• GungHo Online Entertainment America
• Konami Digital Entertainment
• LEVEL-5 Inc.
• Little Orbit
• Mad Catz Interactive, Inc.
• Microsoft Corporation
• Natsume Inc.
• Nexon America, Inc.
• Nintendo of America Inc.
• NVIDIA
• SEGA of America, Inc.
• Slang
• Sony Computer Entertainment America
• Sony Online Entertainment, Inc.
• Square Enix, Inc.
• Take-Two Interactive Software, Inc.
• Tecmo Koei America Corporation
• Tencent
• Trion Worlds, Inc.
• Ubisoft Entertainment, Inc.
• Wargaming
• Warner Bros. Interactive Entertainment Inc.
• XSEED Games

The ESA said, in the Washington Post:

"That prompted the the nation's top trade group for video game companies to speak out Wednesday. “Threats of violence and harassment are wrong," said a spokesman for the Entertainment Software Association in a statement. "They have to stop. There is no place in the video game community—or our society—for personal attacks and threats.”

It's a simple statement. But it indicates just how seriously the gaming industry is working to break free of the worst stereotypes of its community. Game culture is, no doubt, changing. The ESA now boasts that women comprise nearly 50 percent of its audience."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...trade-group-just-spoke-out-against-gamergate/​

This is "large-scale and collective denouncement across the board". That is exactly what this is. The biggest gaming companies publicly denouncing the actions against women. That is what you want, right?

 

[UnrealEck]

Ugh more of this trite shit.

What difference does it make if it's trite? It's still relevant. This is an issue affecting people in gaming professions. If there was some sort of conference of developers and publishers to address this, it should be about people being made victims.

 

[Buzzman]

I think applying this idea to the current situation is preposterous. You suggested a stern denouncement from publishers barely related to the situation would have had the power to prevent the threats. These are individual behaviors which amount to terrorism, and they're deliberately anti-social.

 

[Abounder]

Don't feed the trolls is my motto. Game companies would only speak out if it was one of their own customers or employees causing controversy I suppose.

 

[Kinyou]

What's your plan that would actually work to go after them? How would you track down people who stay anonymous and may or may not be involved in the main movement?

If someone who lives in France bounces their IP to Switzerland then South Africa, then doxes/threatens someone from that location, how are individuals going to do anything to stop them?

Perhaps "going after them" was the wrong expression. My point is just that putting such a focus on trying to prove that the threats are fake made it look even worse.

 

[Aeana]

Don't feed the trolls is my motto. Game companies would only speak out if it was one of their own customers or employees causing controversy I suppose.

When you are sending death and rape threats, it's well beyond "trolling." Reducing it to mere "internet trolling" is incredibly disrespectful.

 

[Squishy3]

Part of their customer base is being harassed and getting death threats. I think games companies should acknowledge that this is happening and condemn it. I think they risk sending a signal to their customers that they don't care that this is happening.

The Entertainment Software Association issued a statement. All of the major publishers are a member of the ESA. They're representing those companies. It's as good as a statement from those companies, they don't need to make individual statements because they represent all of them.

 

[TheBaronOfNA]

I think applying this idea to the current situation is preposterous. You suggested a stern denouncement from publishers barely related to the situation would have had the power to prevent the threats. These are individual behaviors which amount to terrorism, and they're deliberately anti-social.

Thank you Gestault, thank you...

 

[leazo]

Really? You dont agree with the side that wants folk to stop harassing voices that they consider dissenting and want to create a chilling effect on the industry that they pretend to love? Dont give me that "both sides are equally bad" BS from The Witcher, there is a side that is asking the industry to give its best (with industry people thanking them), and other that has Adam "Obama created Ebola" Baldwin.

I do not condone harassing people at all but id be lying if i said i haven't seen people from both camps stepping over the line during the past 2 months, its silly and needs to stop entirely there, sending threats, doxxing people and harassing is wrong no matter who does it.

 

[SteveO409]

A lone employee suddenly represents a whole company? Here we go again, "this side vs the other side". smh

 

[Teremap]

I do not agree with either side in this whole thing but the best action actual companies can take at this point is to just shut up to protect their own asses and stay out of it, nothing good will come their way by getting involved in the toxic mess that is gamergate and that goes towards both sides of it.

There is no "either side"!

There are people who are okay with making death threats and bomb threats to further the status quo (the #Gamergaters), and then there's everyone else. If you're not a supporter of #Gamergate, congratulations, you're with the rest of rational humanity.

Not every situation has two sides.

 

[Gestault]

[image]

That's not actually a counterpoint to what I said.