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[jim-jam bongs]

Thanks for providing me choices. I do feel like work from other mediums does not attract a similar level of scrutiny. And that from a personal point of view, I feel like the portrayal of females in entertainment media/fiction doesn't affect me in a way that would offend me or make me act negatively towards females.

Okay, I actually don't think that's entirely true however. I mean, there was a huge discussion about the sexist and "rapey" messages in Blurred Lines just recently. Everything from Disney films (collectively, and individually in some cases) to Shakespeare have been the subject of a huge amount of critical discourse around their depictions of women.

And I don't think that it's possible for an individual to judge whether their behaviour towards someone else is being negatively influenced, because our biases are informed by the things we experience. What we perceive as being positive could be way off the mark depending on what we've been encouraged to consider appropriate.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

InternetAristocrat's pre-GamerGate output consists almost entirely of angry videos attacking "SJWs." GamerGate isn't an outlier. GamerGate is at the dead center of his agenda.

In a large way, I'm confused as to how "Gamergate" got this big.

 

[Ayt]

IA provided a nice summation of his videos earlier today on twitter, IMO.

"Biased reporting, no fact checking, no background investigation, narrative spinning, clickbaiting approaches. It's absolutely shameful."

 

[KTallguy]

Ideally, if not just a pipe dream. Gaming is a business shaped in a way you cannot afford a bomba on large scale, it might cost your whole company or mess up its entire direction. Taking risks is not something they are willing to take regardless of the gender and the age of the characters involved in the project, it has less to do with the ideas poured inside the game and more about the audience making for most of the userbase. Let alone the fact that the more people you add to an userbase, the higher chances are they are casual gamers that buy the latest fad and don't take their time to explore more elaborated titles. Scrutiny happens with movies but their industry works differently, maybe it'd be time to bring gaming budgets to ground zero, work their way back up all while adding more progressive ideas to the dance.

I disagree, because we're seeing a slow but sure diversification of the game audience, and I don't just mean those on mobile or social networks. I think that marketing and business analysts are watching these changes very closely.

We are starting to see more diverse titles, like Mirror's Edge, and the upcoming sequel. I agree that companies do not want to chase a flash in the pan fad. I also think that game companies have some serious growing pains ahead of them as our medium becomes more and more mainstream. Culturally mobile games are bringing games back into the conversation, and as the audience arrives, mainstream AAA titles will become a bit more sophisticated and nuanced in their themes and gameplay.

Keep in mind that by the time this happens, mobile/tablet will probably take over the entire industry and home consoles will likely disappear. We'll just be wirelessly beaming images to our tv, potentially connecting a controller, and going ham.

 

[HarryHengst]

In a large way, I'm confused as to how "Gamergate" got this big.

Its probably not big in terms of people, but they make an awful lot of noise and harassment.

 

[JC Sera]

When and why was boogie banned from GAF?

I'm curious about this too
Edit: found it https://twitter.com/Boogie2988/status/521787286783279105

 

[danm999]

Giant Bomb on the latest Bombcast mentions gamergate, never heard the staff other than Klepek or Navarro talk about it (2:04:28 - 2:10:00). They talk about the helplessness of it all but needing solidarity. And the rest:

"It's the sort of thing you look at and go like: this should have gone away now..."

"It's 2014, y'all. Don't you have a rep to grind?"

"The sick part is, that's what they're doing."

"Even if the part where you look at it as some kind of coalition of people that care about ethics in game journalism, which is largely farcical; even if you look at it that way, how does that justify what's really happening out there?"

"It doesn't. I figured it out!"

"Congratulations, you completed the [Destiny] Raid!"

Most of the Giant Bomb guys have been on the shit list of GG for a while now actually, given comments they've made now and then.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/505106389753024513

There's also a fair amount of inherent irony in accusing Jeff Gerstmann of media corruption and dishonesty I feel.

 

[eBay Huckster]

Most of the Giant Bomb guys have been on the shit list of GG for a while now actually, given comments they've made now and then.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/505106389753024513

There's also a fair amount of inherent irony in accusing Jeff Gerstmann of media corruption and dishonesty I feel.

it takes a special kind of lack of fucking self-awareness for them to accuse those people of "shaming and censoring anyone who disagrees with them" given that that's the exact intent of their little "boycott"

 

[chaobreaker]

In a large way, I'm confused as to how "Gamergate" got this big.

The kind of people who would harrass women in the gaming industry, hate everything "SJW" related, and fight tooth and nail to maintain the gaming status quo: They were always there. The only difference between now and 3 months ago is now they all have a hashtag to fall under.

 

[FF Seraphim]

Most of the Giant Bomb guys have been on the shit list of GG for a while now actually, given comments they've made now and then.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/505106389753024513

There's also a fair amount of inherent irony in accusing Jeff Gerstmann of media corruption and dishonesty I feel.

Thats a pretty big list of people to boycott just because of their views on video games.

 

[Messofanego]

GiantBomb has been on the gamergate blacklist for awhile now, even before that podcast. Same with Idle Thumbs and Gamers With Jobs. Probably all the podcasts I listen to.

Oh I get that, but I haven't heard the other staff explicitly talk about it in some official capacity. Unless if I'm mistaken.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

Most of the Giant Bomb guys have been on the shit list of GG for a while now actually, given comments they've made now and then.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/505106389753024513

There's also a fair amount of inherent irony in accusing Jeff Gerstmann of media corruption and dishonesty I feel.

"They're writing things that we disagree with!"

Ethics.

 

[Lalalandia]

IA provided a nice summation of his videos earlier today on twitter, IMO.

"Biased reporting, no fact checking, no background investigation, narrative spinning, clickbaiting approaches. It's absolutely shameful."

And it's all horseshit or trivial complaints, odd how he chose not to mention that he span this tale of half truths and obviousness over the allegations of sexual impropriety against a woman dev. Or that his bullshit was instrumental in helping to propagate a hate campaign that is what is shameful. Fuck this it's like claiming that the 'blood libel' is about child welfare, what an asshole.

 

[danm999]

"They're writing things that we disagree with!"

Ethics.

Especially that Adam Sessler who left the business months ago! Boycott the thing he's not doing anymore!

 

[Zornack]

We are starting to see more diverse titles, like Mirror's Edge, and the upcoming sequel. I agree that companies do not want to chase a flash in the pan fad. I also think that game companies have some serious growing pains ahead of them as our medium becomes more and more mainstream. Culturally mobile games are bringing games back into the conversation, and as the audience arrives, mainstream AAA titles will become a bit more sophisticated and nuanced in their themes and gameplay.

If anything I'd suspect the opposite to happen. Look at the big hits on mobile: angry birds, Kim Kardashian, flappy bird, clash of clans. There's no story, no nuance, no sense of inclusion or varied representation. I don't understand why someone coming from there would expect anything more from console games.

 

[zeldablue]

I have a question.

Isn't most of this tied to occupation and occupational bias? People go into certain fields for specific reasons. Those drawn to art, film, literature and the humanities are going to reek of feminist and progressive, and expressive thoughts. They do that literally because that is what they like and that is what they learn and study. Almost every journalist or writer is going to be "corrupted" by feminism because of that. The whole occupation is skewed towards exploring those philosophies and theories.

That's not even an American thing, either. Yoshiaki Koizumi from Nintendo studied film making and story writing. And he was/is an extremely "progressive" feeling person who saw games as a medium for new forms of art/story-telling. Koizumi clashed constantly with the more straight-forward Miyamoto...Koizumi actively hides stories out of Nintendo games, working in the middle of the night to put his romantic inner rhetoric into Miyamoto's games behind everyone's back. Aonuma even made fun of Koizumi for smacking his worldview onto Majora's Mask.

It's literally just the creative, pretentious "hipster" occupations being slammed down by the "superior" STEM people. In school there is a constant feeling of occupational bias, and it's a fun competition, but every designer knows why the developers exist and vice-versa. We understand that we couldn't really live without each other.

This is why I'm super empathetic. I went to school for art and design AND game design. How can you screw up the Yang to your Yin?

 

[ShockingAlberto]

It's really weird to see Jeff and Brad on that list. I feel like they're not saying nearly enough.

I saw Brad make a tweet about gamergate today but he deliberately avoided saying "gamergate" so he wouldn't get people harassing him.

 

[KTallguy]

If anything I'd suspect the opposite to happen. Look at the big hits on mobile: angry birds, Kim Kardashian, flappy bird, clash of clans. There's no story, no nuance, no sense of inclusion or varied representation. I don't understand why someone coming from there would expect anything more from console games.

I agree that those titles aren't nuanced but they do tell stories (not necessarily sophisticated ones) that relate to the audience.

I don't think we can capture every single person that plays candy crush, just like novelists can't capture every single person who reads tabloids. But as games become more a part of the conversation, and indies start to challenge our perceptions of what a game can be, I think the younger generations will grow up with a wide spectrum of games in their vocabulary, everything from call of duty to gone home to minecraft, to the walking dead games. I think we're at the tipping point of that change within the industry and redefining games in the mainstream media is a big part of it. In a few years it will be more of an awareness and accessibility problem than anything. The content will be there.

 

[BlastProcessing]

2 cents:

I'm all for equal opportunity & proper treatment of women in game development/journalism. Feminism shouldn't be forced on game content though. Women in video game content should vary from Elizabeth in Bioshock Infinite to the hookers in GTA. It's fiction. You can't derive reality from it. Also, I'm all for more professional and ethical game journalism.

The spectrum you present says a lot. Women can be anything in games from pure naive virgins to streetwalking whores. A true Freudian cornucopia.

Why do you get to say what women "should" be in games, but when someone else does it it is "forcing" things?

I make games; we should keep in touch so you can tell me what should be in my next game.

 

[KTallguy]

I have a question.

Isn't most of this tied to occupation and occupational bias? People go into certain fields for specific reasons. Those drawn to art, film, literature and the humanities are going to reek of feminist and progressive, and expressive thoughts. They do that literally because that is what they like and that is what they learn and study. Almost every journalist or writer is going to be "corrupted" by feminism because of that. The whole occupation is skewed towards exploring those philosophies and theories.

That's not even an American thing, either. Yoshiaki Koizumi from Nintendo studied film making and story writing. And he was/is an extremely "progressive" feeling person who saw games as a medium for new forms of art/story-telling. Koizumi clashed constantly with the more straight-forward Miyamoto...Koizumi actively hides stories out of Nintendo games, working in the middle of the night to put his romantic inner rhetoric into Miyamoto's games behind everyone's back. Aonuma even made fun of Koizumi for smacking his worldview onto Majora's Mask.

It's literally just the creative, pretentious "hipster" occupations being slammed down by the "superior" STEM people. In school there is a constant feeling of occupational bias, and it's a fun competition, but every designer knows why the developers exist and vice-versa. We understand that we couldn't really live without each other.

This is why I'm super empathetic. I went to school for art and design AND game design. How can you screw up the Yang to your Yin?

I think being progressive or not has a lot to do with education, culture, and the society you grow up in, as well as the kind of stimuli you're exposed to. It's tough to make up for a lack of experience at a young age, but some manage to change midway through life (in both directions).

As for Miyamoto vs Koizumi, I think Miyamoto's idea of "pure" games are much more conceptual in nature and about the natural feeling of play. Koizumi seems like he's much more about conveying a message for the betterment of society. I think there's a place for both, or different combinations of both in one product.

 

[JackDT]

Oh I get that, but I haven't heard the other staff explicitly talk about it in some official capacity. Unless if I'm mistaken.

They did on the morning show I think, and on twitter, but not on the bombcast itself.

 

[BlastProcessing]

IA provided a nice summation of his videos earlier today on twitter, IMO.

"Biased reporting, no fact checking, no background investigation, narrative spinning, clickbaiting approaches. It's absolutely shameful."

The projection is strong with that one.

 

[HP_Wuvcraft]

Most of the Giant Bomb guys have been on the shit list of GG for a while now actually, given comments they've made now and then.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/505106389753024513

There's also a fair amount of inherent irony in accusing Jeff Gerstmann of media corruption and dishonesty I feel.

It always, always surprises me how these people use language like "ruin our hobby" and mean it.

I mean, it works wonders on 12-year olds, but this is just pathetic.

I've also never heard a defense for this type of language beyond "girls" or even "minorities".

Another thought is this: treating video games like they shouldn't be held up to higher standards and then whining about how nobody takes it seriously/calls it art/etc. is ridiculous. I do not understand how such weak arguments can give way to so much hate.

 

[Rats Off To Ya]

It's really weird to see Jeff and Brad on that list. I feel like they're not saying nearly enough.

I saw Brad make a tweet about gamergate today but he deliberately avoided saying "gamergate" so he wouldn't get people harassing him.

Ryckert should be on that list. He talked very positively about GaymerX a while ago.

Caught ya slippin', GamerGate.

It always, always surprises me how these people use language like "ruin our hobby" and mean it.

I mean, it works wonders on 12-year olds, but this is just pathetic.

I've also never heard a defense for this type of language beyond "girls" or even "minorities".

Another thought is this: treating video games like they shouldn't be held up to higher standards and then whining about how nobody takes it seriously/calls it art/etc. is ridiculous. I do not understand how such weak arguments can give way to so much hate.

And yet if I attack them, and say they're ruining my favorite hobby, I'm a white knight SJW scumbag and I deserve anything that happens to me.

And yes, I did just point out that GGers lack empathy. A startling revelation, I know.

 

[JackDT]

Well according to gamergate neogaf is a 'journalism' site about attacking gamers. No gamers here.

 

[Zolbrod]

I love the picture they used for Jim Sterling.

 

[SmZA]

So I got involved on Twitter after the Utah thing happened and yeah, these guys are the stupidest fucking morons I've ever had sustained online contact with. It really is Gamerghazi. They have no coherent goals or narrative and if you read their 'super sekrit' documents you'll see that that is a deliberate strategy. They actually think having no purpose makes their 'movement' harder to fight.

Anyway I had a little success with different hashtags, earned a few retweets, had some laughs but also in my eagerness made a mistake or two that I felt really shitty about (don't tweet angry).

It's getting a little lonely so I'd appreciate some GAF support - PM, I won't link here. Probably won't accept Juniors for obvious reasons.

 

[Messofanego]

I love the picture they used for Jim Sterling.

didn't notice that lol

 

[TedNindo]

Most of the Giant Bomb guys have been on the shit list of GG for a while now actually, given comments they've made now and then.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jeffgerstmann/status/505106389753024513

There's also a fair amount of inherent irony in accusing Jeff Gerstmann of media corruption and dishonesty I feel.

That's a really old list. I saw that on /v/ more than a month ago and nobody agreed with it. This isn't some official sjw gamergate list or whatever. It's just some bad list some random person created that nobody agreed with

I haven't been following it since then. Came in here to catch up. But I recognised that list.

 

[Hydrogen Bluebird]

Why do you get to say what women "should" be in games, but when someone else does it it is "forcing" things?

I make games; we should keep in touch so you can tell me what should be in my next game.

I used "should" with the assumption and personal assessment that there's a group of people saying that women should always be empowered. Again, that was a personal assessment of mine.

As for your offer, I don't know. Do you make good games?

 

[SmZA]

That's a really old list. I saw that on /v/ more than a month ago and nobody agreed with it. This isn't some official sjw gamergate list or whatever.

Too many dudes in it.

 

[zeldablue]

I think being progressive or not has a lot to do with education, culture, and the society you grow up in, as well as the kind of stimuli you're exposed to. It's tough to make up for a lack of experience at a young age, but some manage to change midway through life (in both directions).

As for Miyamoto vs Koizumi, I think Miyamoto's idea of "pure" games are much more conceptual in nature and about the natural feeling of play. Koizumi seems like he's much more about conveying a message for the betterment of society. I think there's a place for both, or different combinations of both in one product.

Well I love em both. But there have legitimately been people since the 80s waiting for, and hoping to use games to do something really special. I like gamey games a lot, but to actively try to kill off games that aren't gamey enough seems awful. There is something very wrong with the idea that games have to be strictly anything. We don't do that to plays, books, comics or films. Why not give games that respect too? We don't say the film wasn't filmy enough, or the book wasn't booky enough...

Extra Credits hits it on the head.

If you can tie the game mechanics directly to the story you want to tell...you can do so much more.

 

[alstein]

I have a question.

Isn't most of this tied to occupation and occupational bias? People go into certain fields for specific reasons. Those drawn to art, film, literature and the humanities are going to reek of feminist and progressive, and expressive thoughts. They do that literally because that is what they like and that is what they learn and study. Almost every journalist or writer is going to be "corrupted" by feminism because of that. The whole occupation is skewed towards exploring those philosophies and theories.

That's not even an American thing, either. Yoshiaki Koizumi from Nintendo studied film making and story writing. And he was/is an extremely "progressive" feeling person who saw games as a medium for new forms of art/story-telling. Koizumi clashed constantly with the more straight-forward Miyamoto...Koizumi actively hides stories out of Nintendo games, working in the middle of the night to put his romantic inner rhetoric into Miyamoto's games behind everyone's back. Aonuma even made fun of Koizumi for smacking his worldview onto Majora's Mask.

It's literally just the creative, pretentious "hipster" occupations being slammed down by the "superior" STEM people. In school there is a constant feeling of occupational bias, and it's a fun competition, but every designer knows why the developers exist and vice-versa. We understand that we couldn't really live without each other.

This is why I'm super empathetic. I went to school for art and design AND game design. How can you screw up the Yang to your Yin?

I disagree.

I'd say there is some, but game developers often have the same bias as the game journos. There are very few conservatives who organically come from the game industry.

I do think you hit on something- I do think even before GG, gamers didn't have respect for game journos in general, due to various other issues/scandals. I suspect that feeling in the case of some game journos was mutual, so when they got a chance to go after their audience, they did. This is part of the reason things blew up so much. What made things super-toxic was very similar to how the tea party became toxic- a bunch of folks hijacked GG and turned it into a misogynistic movement.

Many Tea partiers for a good while (and some still are) confused why there is so much venom, they signed up metaphorically out of opposition to the ACA/size of government, they don't know why they're being lumped in with the objectivist loonies who took it over. (there's one similarity- both movement were taken over by objectivists)

Personal opinion, I know there are some good game journos out there, and some game journos are good people. However, as a whole, the industry to me provides little to no value to me as someone who plays games, and as such, I honestly don't care about most of them, and I distrust them because I believe that payola is rampant. That said, the payola isn't coming from the folks GG is criticizing, but the AAA studios. It takes more than a couple spare boxes of ramen to bribe folks, and that's probably all many indies can spare.

I don't know what the end game of this is going to be, but things have changed have for the worse, and it's going to stay this way for a long time.

I'll say this- most of your pro-GG folk feel like they are actively being persecuted, and as such they'll find a way to twist things to fit that narrative , much like any other group that feels persecuted , legitimately or not (and IMO some groups deserve persecution). It's clear for example that GAF has a bias against GG, the question is whether that bias is a bad or good thing, which is for people to decide for themselves.

 

[King Tubby]

I have yet to see an example of any game's development or coverage meaningfully or significantly affected by SJWs outside of "We're still doing bikini armor guys?" I don't get it.

A movement ostensibly about ethics in game journalism was essentially birthed out of a whole bunch of nothing around an indie game developer whose profile was minuscule before it got blown out of proportion. One of the targeted/boycotted journalists is Jeff Gerstmann, a game reviewer who has so much integrity he literally got fired for it.

I firmly believe that if something like a repeat of the Gerstmann affair happened instead of the Five Guys nonsense there would be no GamerGate. It would have fizzled out because there wouldn't be anything juicy enough for the bigots and trolls who have latched on and hijacked it.

I don't think everyone who supports GG is an asshole. I think most are okay and the congregation of assholes that have taken up the mantle just speaks louder. At this point though, it has to stop. GamerGate has been the worst thing for gamers or the industry in a long time. The push for more ethics and accountability in game journalism is so much less important at this point than ending the ongoing misogynistic harassment.

I used "should" with the assumption and personal assessment that there's a group of people saying that women should always be empowered. Again, that was a personal assessment of mine.

Okay...but even if this is true, why is it a problem? What have these people actually done to hurt gaming or even any particular game that rises anywhere near what we've seen over the last couple months? What crime is committed by a feminist game critic who takes offense to a certain portrayal of women in a game and voices their displeasure?

 

[Brakke]

Oh I get that, but I haven't heard the other staff explicitly talk about it in some official capacity. Unless if I'm mistaken.

It's really weird to see Jeff and Brad on that list. I feel like they're not saying nearly enough.

I saw Brad make a tweet about gamergate today but he deliberately avoided saying "gamergate" so he wouldn't get people harassing him.

I feel like Jeff's always been totally clear that he thinks all of this is gross bullshit. Was it this year's PAX panel where he went on about how choosing "gamer" as the Defining Identity of Your Soul is dumb? Seems like his patience has run out on this subject, his position that "yo you idiots should grow up and get some perspective" is pretty thoroughly covered.

He hasn't really called out #gamergate by name specifically too often, but I figure that's because he's tired of playing this game--dude's been around the block and back after all.

 

[JackDT]

That's a really old list. I saw that on /v/ more than a month ago and nobody agreed with it. This isn't some official sjw gamergate list or whatever. It's just some bad list some random person created that nobody agreed with

I haven't been following it since then. Came in here to catch up. But I recognised that list.

The list is actually way bigger now, just going by the two primary boycott efforts.

 

[BlastProcessing]

I used "should" with the assumption and personal assessment that there's a group of people saying that women should always be empowered. Again, that was a personal assessment of mine.

As for your offer, I don't know. Do you make good games?

So why are you against other people (even dreaded Feminists) having their own personal assessments?

Also, my game was nominated at IndieCade last year and since it's been painted as a corrupt Feminist Cabal by Gamergate I am not sure you would be into it.

 

[GamerJM]

I have a question.

Isn't most of this tied to occupation and occupational bias? People go into certain fields for specific reasons. Those drawn to art, film, literature and the humanities are going to reek of feminist and progressive, and expressive thoughts. They do that literally because that is what they like and that is what they learn and study. Almost every journalist or writer is going to be "corrupted" by feminism because of that. The whole occupation is skewed towards exploring those philosophies and theories.

That's not even an American thing, either. Yoshiaki Koizumi from Nintendo studied film making and story writing. And he was/is an extremely "progressive" feeling person who saw games as a medium for new forms of art/story-telling. Koizumi clashed constantly with the more straight-forward Miyamoto...Koizumi actively hides stories out of Nintendo games, working in the middle of the night to put his romantic inner rhetoric into Miyamoto's games behind everyone's back. Aonuma even made fun of Koizumi for smacking his worldview onto Majora's Mask.

It's literally just the creative, pretentious "hipster" occupations being slammed down by the "superior" STEM people. In school there is a constant feeling of occupational bias, and it's a fun competition, but every designer knows why the developers exist and vice-versa. We understand that we couldn't really live without each other.

This is why I'm super empathetic. I went to school for art and design AND game design. How can you screw up the Yang to your Yin?

On this subject, I actually think it would be interesting to see what it would be like without this occupational bias; to see more mathematically and mechanically-inclined people be working for games media and media in general. Within games, we'd see more critiques of games from a pure gameplay and mechanics level. In addition to feminist and social critiques of gaming (which I love to read and see, by the way), I'd like to see articles written for professional gaming sites that critique a game on a very technical level.

On the same token, I'd like to see more expressive/feminist/forward-thinking people in STEM fields, as it would help foster creativity and diversity in fields that are all too frequently devoid of such traits.

 

[plufim]

As we all know, Kamiya is great at twitter. With Anita's stance on Bayonetta, I guess they figured he'd be an ally and have been tweeting him...

His response is calling them all idiots, blocks each one.

♡ Kamiya.

Check out @PG_kamiya's Tweet: https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/523007556696813568?s=09

Check out @PG_kamiya's Tweet: https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/523010843407970304?s=09

Check out @PG_kamiya's Tweet: https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/523011526727196672?s=09

Check out @PG_kamiya's Tweet: https://twitter.com/PG_kamiya/status/523011598844035072?s=09

 

[Noaloha]

When and why was boogie banned from GAF?

Hmm. I don't know how to answer this really, in any specific way at least. I obviously don't intend to speak for the mods or anything, but there's a bit of extra context which (in my opinion) may have led to boogie being banned (at least in the specific sense of being denied access to the forum). Some of the stuff he was typing was showing that this discussion was having a negative impact on his mental wellbeing. He was upset (understatement). I don't want to link it as it's the kind of thing that may make for uncomfortable reading and I don't want to enable it as lazy popcorn-fodder for whatever chucklenut reading might consider such a thing. I don't want boogie's banning to be perceived outside of what I consider important context, but I'd love it if this post didn't spark a page-long discussion on boogie's personal wellbeing.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

So speaking of GiantBomb, this is from Brad's tumblr

breitbartcom/blabdibladibla/GameJournoPros-we-reveal-every-journalist-on-the-list oh look there you are, oh loooooooool im guessing if you keep acting like gamergate has to do with feminism it takes the public eye off the fact you broke countless laws and should be fired

Okay so, now, I'm not some fancy big city lawyer over here, but I always thought this "mailing list" is more or less just a "private chatroom" of sorts for journalists to talk to each other.
Can somebody tell me which "countless laws" they are breaking? Or, to be more correct, which laws are perceived to be broken?

 

[KTallguy]

Pure games can create a narrative purely through interactions.

But to get into something, people require context. Which is why narrative is a big part of framing those interactions.

Games will eventually get sophisticated enough so that narrative context doesn't need to be primarily expressed through non interactive sequences. The tough part is using pure game mechanics to say something nuanced and meaningful without the crutch of a film like narrative. So basically we're not quite there yet

 

[plufim]

Boogie is going to have a rough time too, as I expect some in the industry to shut him out now.

 

[Messofanego]

I feel like Jeff's always been totally clear that he thinks all of this is gross bullshit. Was it this year's PAX panel where he went on about how choosing "gamer" as the Defining Identity of Your Soul is dumb? Seems like his patience has run out on this subject, his position that "yo you idiots should grow up and get some perspective" is pretty thoroughly covered.

He hasn't really called out #gamergate by name specifically too often, but I figure that's because he's tired of playing this game--dude's been around the block and back after all.

Oh yeah, thanks for reminding.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Boogie is going to have a rough time too, as I expect some in the industry to shut him out now.

Most Youtubers seem pretty pro GG as far as I can tell, who could "shut him out"? Developers and publishers probably don't care either way (at least not the PR side)

 

[BlastProcessing]

So speaking of GiantBomb, this is from Brad's tumblr




Okay so, now, I'm not some fancy big city lawyer over here, but I always thought this "mailing list" is more or less just a "private chatroom" of sorts for journalists to talk to each other.
Can somebody tell me which "countless laws" they are breaking? Or, to be more correct, which laws are perceived to be broken?

Press Clubs are pretty common and are in no way illegal.

I assume they think it's some sort of collusion thing?

 

[Brakke]

Okay so, now, I'm not some fancy big city lawyer over here, but I always thought this "mailing list" is more or less just a "private chatroom" of sorts for journalists to talk to each other.

Can somebody tell me which "countless laws" they are breaking? Or, to be more correct, which laws are perceived to be broken?

There was some super silly #gamergate fixation on payola laws for a bit there.

 

[Fantastapotamus]

Press Clubs are pretty common and are in no way illegal.

I assume they think it's some sort of collusion thing?

Maybe I'm just overestimating this person's ability to count.

 

[JackDT]

So speaking of GiantBomb, this is from Brad's tumblr




Okay so, now, I'm not some fancy big city lawyer over here, but I always thought this "mailing list" is more or less just a "private chatroom" of sorts for journalists to talk to each other.
Can somebody tell me which "countless laws" they are breaking? Or, to be more correct, which laws are perceived to be broken?

Nothing remarkable about the list:

http://www.gamepolitics.com/2014/10...bout-gamergate-and-gamejournpros#.VEDVCfnF_E7

Also worth noting: few (or none?) of the game journalists accused of colluding to convince the world 'gamers are dead' were on the list anyway.

 

[zeldablue]

On this subject, I actually think it would be interesting to see what it would be like without this occupational bias; to see more mathematically and mechanically-inclined people be working for games media and media in general. Within games, we'd see more critiques of games from a pure gameplay and mechanics level. In addition to feminist and social critiques of gaming (which I love to read and see, by the way), I'd like to see articles written for professional gaming sites that critique a game on a very technical level.

On the same token, I'd like to see more expressive/feminist/forward-thinking people in STEM fields, as it would help foster creativity and diversity in fields that are all too frequently devoid of such traits.

Yeah, I'd like that too!

But going to school and dipping on both sides, there was a stark difference. On the art side, everyone wears flannel, people can be openly gay, there is a 50/50 ratio of male and female and people like to get drunk, socialize and do "college" stuff. On the tech side everyone is rather quiet, spent a lot of time on Reddit and talked about how there are no women in their major. And being outnumbered by guys always felt...strange, like I was an enigma. I obviously felt more open and comfortable in the artsy fartsy section, but I really wanted to like being with game design. It's very night and day, and both sides perceived each other in sometimes nasty ways even though everyone in my school loved playing games. It was never about games, it was always about personal feelings. Communication classes were awful because a lot of STEM students refused to believe the media has any influence over anything at all. (Yet they believe people hearing about feminism will brain-wash them...what?)

There would be feuds every now and then about STEM students being stalkers or socially awkward people peeping into the art dorms to see the girls. (Because in a tech school, most of the girls are in art.) And on the flip side there were feuds about artsy girls being stoners and whores.

I just see the tension. It's not just about gender, it's about occupation, personality and life goals too. People, even for career paths, funnel into cliques and groups. One side is known for being social and the other side...isn't so much. There were strong feelings of...extrovert envy. If you were on our territory and you weren't socially inclined, you would often be belittled and laughed at. I think the break in trust comes from how the desires of both groups are completely against each other.

I never followed feminism in school because I thought it was unfair to complain about female oppression when guys in school felt ostracized by the bad gender ratio making it harder for them to engage and easier for girls to be super picky and mean. And then I would be upset at women for screwing it up for "good women" like me. When your in that environment, you adopt those thoughts. I would be very, very anti-feminist IF I had stayed with game development.

Edit: And I still sympathize, which is why I try to be egalitarian about things.