Cosplayer being labeled ‘Racist’ for her blackface Michonne From ‘The Walking Dead'

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Labor said:
There's a difference between turning a character that has been traditionally portrayed as Asian for a few decades into a white guy in the big-screen adaptation (although Goku is an alien anyway so whatever), and a private citizen dressing up as a character for fun.
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Isn't it more dangerous to portray originally asian characters as white in mass media later? This seems smaller and less influencing to the society at large, just a small example of somebody being unaware.
 
PhoenixDark said:
Why is it only "generally" ok to dress up as easily recognized minority characters. Also yes or no: is the cosplay in the OP racist?

With respect to the tumblr posts on blackface, surely you recognize not a single point relates to that cosplay.

(I'm black.)
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For example, having a Trayvon Martin or Mike Brown Halloween costume is not okay even without blackface. So generally okay.

Yes or no, is that cosplay using blackface? That's your answer.
 
IMO people saying "all blackface is racist" obviously don't understand what racist actually means.

Yes, it could be insensitive to people who take offense to it and it could also be ignorant of why somebody might take offense to blackface in the first place, but the intention obviously isn't racist.

It's subjectively offensive, insensitive or ignorant (maybe all three), probably (definitely imo) accidentally, but it isn't racist.
 
There's absolutely nothing inherently racist about it.
Had there been intent, sure. But there wasn't.
It doesn't matter whether someone feels offended because of their emotional reaction to a historical fact. It is an emotional and not a rational reaction.
You are projecting the predestined impact of "blackface" well beyond the intent and execution of the act itself. You are twisting it around.

The more sensitivity we create, the more misguided everything becomes and it's a slippery slope from there.
This situation is a perfect example of this.
An act which was intended as a tribute, a celebration of a character, has produced magnitudes of hate.
To me, this huge ammount of hate outweights the offensivness that some people perceived.

Take a step back and see what's happening.
Is this really something that should rally the internet and generate all this hate?

It seems to me that everyone took this "blackface" and fucking ran with it.
Now all the world should somehow feel this guilt. Oh the guilt. The black guilt. You know what? That's bullshit.
I'm sorry, there's no inherent guilt. None.
There's no guilt to be attached to the white people, or to the black people, or to yellow people. The only guilt can be applied to an individual. The "white people" didn't enslave the "black people". There's no "white people".

I'm sick and tired of these endless discussions.
I can understand Americans have a lot of baggage from the past and emotional attachments, but there's a time to leave those behind and start looking at the individual.
You have a perfect chance to stop the rhetoric of "white vs black". Your society is so wonderfully mixed. What you need now is a philosophical and moral guidance of the individual.

Stop this ridiculus moral relativism. It's causing nothing but trouble and divisions.
Stop arguing about fringe cases or even making them (such as this case).
A normal human being will easily tell what's right and what's wrong, what's moral and what's not. But you're throwing those out the window with the relativism. Don't you see how counterproductive it is?

I am white.
Does it matter?
What if I were black and said those things? Would you judge them differently?
Would it make a difference if I told you that I come from a nation with no slave or imperialism history? It really shouldn't.

Is it racist that I mimic a black person because I admire them? No.
Is it racists if a black person mimiced me, because s/he liked me? Absolutely not.

But an action is not an absolute. It is what we make it to be, what value we prescribe to it.
What if we all said, eating with your left hand is racist because a mass murdered ate with his left hand and it's reminding all of us about it, maybe its even glorifying it in some cases? We would then in reality make people feel that to be a fact. It would indeed become racist.
But why would we do such a thing?

Human skin has different colors. Human eyes have different colors.
Human hair has different colors.
Let's decide once and for all to treat every person, every human being as equal.
Then it doesn't matter if I change my hair color. It won't matter if I change my eye color.
It won't matter if I change my skin color.
I'm still a human being and I deserve respect and I have the duty to respect my fellow human being.

All things said and done, we should deny every negative thought and action towards a fellow human being. Deny any and all status of inferiority\superiority between men and women. Strive for mutual understanding, cooperation and mutual exsistence.

This is the foundation of what we should do.
Now it's up to everyone to change the reality in that light.
This doesn't mean that all racism will simply be gone over night, or that black teenagers will be less likely to be shot on sight.
This means that we start to remake the world around us one by one, day by day.

Getting hung up on fringe relativism cases is really REALLY not the way to a better future.
 
Mesousa said:
That nose is a characature, especially when it looks nothing like the actress nose. It looks like a round bantu stereotype nose.
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I can see why you would think so but I disagree. As you can see from the images, the actress that plays Michionne has a broad nose. Common amongst black people, sure (I don't have one), but wanting to look exactly like the real deal doesn't make her racist or caricaturist, not if she's trying to looking like this one specific black person. At least not in my book.
 
KlotePino said:
Isn't it more dangerous to portray originally asian characters as white in mass media later? This seems smaller and less influencing to the society at large, just a small example of somebody being unaware.
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That's what I meant, that's why it wouldn't be considered "white-washing" for one person to cosplay as Michone without changing her skin color
 
DreamDrop said:
If I accidentally step on your foot, does the fact that I didn't mean to make it not hurt? So why is it that you think some blackface is magically not racist?
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The fact that you didn't mean it makes it an accident instead of an aggression. Hurting someone with intent is universally criticized and usually illegal, just like racism. But an accident is just that, and even if it hurts your foot or your feelings, the (lack of) intent behind it changes everything.
 
Frog-fu said:
I can see why you would think so but I disagree. As you can see from the images, the actress that plays Michionne has a broad nose. Common amongst black people, sure (I don't have one), but wanting to look exactly like the real deal doesn't make her racist or caricaturist, not if she's trying to looking like this one specific black person. At least not in my book.
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She literally just made her nose bigger. She didn't attempt to emulate anything specific about the nose. Either she's insensitive or she's incompetent. I guess she can choose.
 
Kinyou said:
If I understand it correctly is cosplay a bit more than just a halloween costume where it's all good as long as someone recognizes who you're dressed up as. The goal is to get as close to the original as possible.
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Except there are amazing minority cosplayers that dont go the make up route to get as close to the source as possible. That feels like a barrier that shouldnt be crossed
 
DreamDrop said:
For example, having a Trayvon Martin or Mike Brown Halloween costume is not okay even without blackface. So generally okay.

Yes or no, is that cosplay using blackface? That's your answer.
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Interesting. I'd be fine with dressing as Trayvon Martin for the right cause, regardless of race, but would be opposed to a Halloween costume for the same reasons I'd oppose a variety of Halloween costumes that potentially trivialize serious shit.
 
cheezcake said:
Well then the question here is do most black people find this particular image offensive?

We already have plenty of disparaging opinions here on GAF so to try and claim this is clear-cut racism or definitely not racism doesn't make much sense. This is very much a grey area.
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As a black guy I find some of the posts in this thread more offensive and more insulting than the cosplay in OP. To answer the question, I feel this was really stupid and misguided and hopefully she learns from her mistake or at the very least try to.
 
Definitely NOT racist. She was cosplaying. It's no different (as already pointed out in this thread) when Dave Chapelle cosplayed as a Caucasian for a comedy skit.
 
This isn't even "blackface"
THIS is blackface.
blackface_600_10-30-13.jpg


What she is doing isnt to offend or mock black people.
 
Alx said:
The fact that you didn't mean it makes it an accident instead of an aggression. Hurting someone with intent is universally criticized and usually illegal, just like racism. But an accident is just that, and even if it hurts your foot or your feelings, the (lack of) intent behind it changes everything.
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You seriously think you have to intend to be racist? 😓
 
Alx said:
The fact that you didn't mean it makes it an accident instead of an aggression. Hurting someone with intent is universally criticized and usually illegal, just like racism. But an accident is just that, and even if it hurts your foot or your feelings, the (lack of) intent behind it changes everything.
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You misunderstand the post you quoted. Yeah it was an accident, yeah you didn't intend to cause me pain, but hell yeah you still owe me an apology because you still caused me harm.

Also accidentally hurting people is a crime.
 
I don't find it racist one bit. I know I'm suppose to, but she doesn't really offend me and she isn't doing to make fun of me or my race, she is doing it to feel more like her favorite character.
 
Loakum said:
Definitely NOT racist. She was cosplaying. It's no different (as already pointed out in this thread) when Dave Chapelle cosplayed as a Caucasian for a comedy skit.
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And what if I said that shit was questionable too?

Ignoring the fact that whiteface doesn't have nearly the same history behind it as blackface or even yellowface, of course.

Y'all keep bringing up Chappelle and the Wayans Bros like that's supposed to undo some shit.
 
itzknickknac said:
If you had bothered reading the article, you would know. But to the rest who also didn't read:


To all you retards. It's not racist. If you really think it is you might as well call me racist since I happen to date someone whom is also my race
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Take it easy now. Tensions are running high but there is no need to resort to name calling. People are well in their right to be offended.

Having said that, I feel this is more of the cosplayer wanting to showcase her ability as an artist.
 
DoctorWho said:
Depends on your reason for doing it. If it's meant as mockery I would consider it racist. If it's done out of adoration for a favourite character I can't really view it as racist.
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EdibleExplosives said:
It's pretty obvious that the intention wasn't racist.
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GingerNathan said:
Certainly racially insensitive. Some people will be offended by it which is their right, so it really isn't worth offending people for what it adds (or doesn't in this case) to the costume. You'd still be able to tell it was a Michonne cosplay if she had kept her skin its natural colour.
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I agree with these comments. I'd say this is a well-meaning cosplay that was done without much consideration for any potential fallout. 'Racially insensitive' is a good phrase to describe it.

Slayven said:
So black people= Space aliens?
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That's not what he said and you know it.
 
People that get offended by this and call it racist really need to get the stick out of their asses.

Not even remotely racist or blackface.
 
Souldriver said:
It's sad that there is an apparent racism problem in the cosplay community, but banning cosplay that includes altering skin color because of that seems like ignoring the issue altogether, and doing a disservice to both people fighting against racism and dedicated cosplayers.
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No it doesn't.

A race isn't a costume- just because she did it a little better than most doesn't make it any less problematic. (It still looks pretty inaccurate and bad.)

For a long time, I felt I couldn't get into cosplay because of my skin color because there were so few characters that I knew of that had darker skin. Eventually, I accepted that I can dress up as anyone who I want to be but the stigma is still there.

A white cosplayer darkening up their skin feels like a slap in the face to all the difficulties black cosplayers have to face in regards to racism.

She gets to slap on some bronzer and is applauded as "accurately" depicting this character.

While black cosplayers get comments like "XXX character isn't black. Why are you cosplaying them?" and "This is pretty good even though they're black".
 
As always, if you aren't interested in discussing the actual subject of the thread, don't post.

If you have questions or concerns regarding moderation, feel free to PM a mod.
 
flkraven said:
I personally don't believe this is racists, but I am merely one person so I understand that others may feel differently.

I'd like to better understand why people believe it is racist. 'Blackface' has been traditionally deemed racist because of it's history and it's intent. It was typically done in a very dramatic fashion (ie. literally black skin, insanely large lips, etc) as a direct representation of 'Joe African American'. It was clearly racists in every way shape and form, as the entire 'character' was race. Blackface wasn't an attempt to portray an individual acurately, rather an excuse to paint an entire race of people with the same brush like some sort of caricature.

This appears to be the furthest thing from Blackface. This woman clearly loves cosplay, and the Walking Dead is a very popular series with cosplayers. We have evidence of her cosplaying in the past as another member of the cast, and we have an admission from her that Michonne is her favorite character. She and Michonne clearly have different skin colours, so she used makeup to try and make the cosplay more accurate.

This girl is not dressing as a caricature. She is not attempting to represent a race of people. For all intense and purposes, her cosplay was not about race at all but about accurately representing a character that she admires from a TV program.

I try to be very sensitive to all issues involving race, gender, sexuality, etc. I understand indirect racism, and how it can often times be more damaging than overt racism. I am aware of systemic prejudices that create large barriers for entire groups of people, and I know that even tangential comments can come from (even a slightly) racist root. However, I think this is even too tangential for my understanding. So once again, please share with me what is offensive about this girl's cosplay? What is the racist root that we are exposing? When something is this far off tangent from direct racism, does intent not come into play?

I am genuinely asking because I really do want to understand.
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I really hope some people are able to answer my question(s) above. I want to hear the feelings from people whose opinion varies, but this conversation is just spiraling into nothingness. The best argument I'm seeing is 'this looks racist', without any real explanation, or 'this is blackface' without any context into how this is blackface.

On 1 side we have people dismissing this as blackface, giving links to definitions of blackface and why it is offensive, or people just saying 'offensive','don't do it', etc. These do nothing. They don't help those better understand why this is offensive, and they only make people on the other side feel validated in their opinion.

On the other side we have people rebutting with claims about white descrimination, whiteface in pop culture, alien cosplay comparisons, and people dismissing this as the 'PC' police or oversensitivity. This moves the argument no where, and simply forces the other side to act reactionary and defensive.

Please, someone, tell me why this is offensive? And how far does this extend?

edit: wish I wasn't near the bottom of the page :/
 
tumblr_n1exk8aNNn1scglxgo1_500.jpg


People loved this bit but I definitely found it racist, yet I still don't find the OP image racist.

There is a line and it's going to be in a different place for everyone regardless of your race and colour. I try to be respectful as I possibly can but at the same time I don't like blanket definitions. Everything needs to be looked at on a case by case basis.
 
Slayven said:
Cause it doesn't fit inside some people's bubble. Some just lack empathy
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This is true. The mere thought that blackface isn't a well known concept in Germany and that cosplayer not being a Racist trying to mock black people with it doesn't fit in some people's bubble. I mean even Eva Braun of all people did blackface in 1937!

The empathy can't be there if you don't know that you in fact offended someone on another continent with something that isn't deemed offensive where you live. I get that it's offensive to Americans because I learned it here. Maybe she isn't so lucky to have a GAF account.
 
Stet said:
She literally just made her nose bigger. She didn't attempt to emulate anything specific about the nose. Either she's insensitive or she's incompetent. I guess she can choose.
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I think you'd have more success proving she's incompetent than that she's a racist.
 
Absolutely not racism. Emulating a favorite character means getting as real as possible. Nothing malicious here. Some of you are looking to be offended.
 
Sephzilla said:
That's because Captain America / Iron Man / Batman have other very obvious visual identifiers like Cap's shield, the arc reactor, or the bat symbol. Does this walking dead character have those same type of eye catching parts of her?

This is more akin to a white guy dressing up as Luke Cage. Nobody is going to know who he is without asking
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Yes she does have characteristics that make her stand out, if you're a fan of TWD tv show, or comics then you see dreadlocks, a samurai sword, a bandana, or maybe even two chained up zombies and you should immediately default to Michonne.
 
rezuth said:
It's a test picture for a cosplay she's making , she's trying to emulate it. You avoided the real question. Would it be fine for you of she didn't have the nose?
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I would be more impressed with it.

Frog-fu said:
I can see why you would think so but I disagree. As you can see from the images, the actress that plays Michionne has a broad nose. Common amongst black people, sure (I don't have one), but wanting to look exactly like the real deal doesn't make her racist or caricaturist, not if she's trying to looking like this one specific black person. At least not in my book.
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The nose looks rounded like she is copying stereotypical a type of nose though. The real actress looks to have a defined wider nose. I think historically the bantu nose has been as much a source of derision as skin color, which is why the failure to emulate the actress nose correctly leaves a sour taste in my mouth.
 
DreamDrop said:
You seriously think you have to intend to be racist? 😓
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The intend of racisms is to confer the believe that a race is inferior to another. How does this persons cosplay of a character do that?
 
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