I really don't see the difference.
Painting your face black was used in an abhorrent way.
Tattooing people's skin was used in an abhorrent way.
If people do either of those things now, with no intention of anything offensive, what's the problem?
Cosplayer being labeled Racist for her blackface Michonne From The Walking Dead'
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I really don't see the difference.
Painting your face black was used in an abhorrent way.
Tattooing people's skin was used in an abhorrent way.
If people do either of those things now, with no intention of anything offensive, what's the problem?
Prophet Steve
Member
So, we are discussing of what is a very dubious case of racism, as we have an entire thread to discuss that. And then you think that very few people can possibly get PTSD because of this case of not personally targeted racism?
No, it doesn't make sense at all.
Blackface was used by white people to create caricatures of black people and people associate this with that as is seems a bit similar.
A tattoo isn't a completely defining trait of someone in a concentration camp, and wasn't used by anyone to represent them.
The situations are nothing alike.
tkscz
Member
You're going to get called out for a lot of things in life. And yes, she is doing it tastefully, it isn't a joke, nor a caricature. She made sure her skin tone matched perfectly, rather than just throwing on dark make up and making it look "black enough" (see black costume in stores). It's not done to be black people in general, but it's done to be a tribute to a black character off a TV show. I'd be more offended if she just put on dreads and her clothes and said that was the costume.
There is definitely room in this world for SJW as a derisive term. It's the 'W' that's problematic, not the 'SJ'. Even the noblest of causes can have some strident and obnoxious proponents.
Alx
Member
But that doesn't take place in America.
depths20XX
Member
I fucking hate Halloween. This shit comes up all the time and a lot of people end up thinking it's no big deal. For some reason (just like in society), black people seem to be defined by the color of their skin first and then everything else afterwards. If a black or east indian guy wants to dress up as Elvis or Superman, do you see them paint their faces white? I haven't. If people can't tell who you are based on what you're wearing, then maybe your costume just sucks.
Summer Haze
Banned
No to both of the bolded parts.
But I don't see the problem with someone wanting to accurately portray a character they love, even it means changing their skin colour.
I don't think it's blackface. She's obviously not racist.
She is however culturally ignorant/insensitive as a cursory glance on Google does reveal that Germany has had problems in the past with casting black actors and their depictions of blacks by white actors in blackface.
Overall, it'd be great if we could mimic each other freely when dressed in costume (out of respect and admiration, not mockery). But that's not the world we live in. When you do this, you're going into a gray area with lots of valid mixed opinions and should be prepared for the often legitimate backlash.
She is however culturally ignorant/insensitive as a cursory glance on Google does reveal that Germany has had problems in the past with casting black actors and their depictions of blacks by white actors in blackface.
Overall, it'd be great if we could mimic each other freely when dressed in costume (out of respect and admiration, not mockery). But that's not the world we live in. When you do this, you're going into a gray area with lots of valid mixed opinions and should be prepared for the often legitimate backlash.
In the context of cosplay, not just tanning. Guess I gotta be super specific.
D-Wade dressed up as Justin Timberlake.
This is probably more offensive than the OP's cosplayer simply because Wade looks completely inhuman like this.
Edit - Probably should clarify. I don't find OP's cosplayer racist nor do I find Wade racist for dressing up as a white guy. What I meant was if we're going to find the cosplayer racist for doing a (fairly good) job of looking like an African American, then Wade should be viewed as even worse for not even doing a very good job of looking caucasian.
Exactly. The character can easily be portrayed, as already shown in this thread, without darkening her skin. Michonne isn't just a skin colour.
Of course.
depths20XX
Member
Well for one it's probably really difficult for the average person to get the correct makeup to change their skin color. Usually it just looks like shit.
That's their decision.
If you're dressing up as a character, getting the skin colour right is one of the basic foundations of looking like that character just as much as the right clothing, hair, accessories, etc.
Seems like to ignore what colour the character's skin is would be being acting colourblind as if her being black is something to shuffle under the carpet.
chaobreaker
Member
I don't cosplay or know any cosplayers but it seems to me that a lot of people think you should achieve the most accurate portrayal of a character even though that is inherently impossible.
Idk, I put the craft of making an accurate costume over the person who is wearing the costume. Cosplay wouldn't be half as interesting if your not allowed to cosplay as a character whose not your sex, race, height, weight, or age. Then we wouldn't have awesome cosplay like this:
So why do something as disgusting as blackface in some attempt to enhance our cosplay?
Idk, I put the craft of making an accurate costume over the person who is wearing the costume. Cosplay wouldn't be half as interesting if your not allowed to cosplay as a character whose not your sex, race, height, weight, or age. Then we wouldn't have awesome cosplay like this:
So why do something as disgusting as blackface in some attempt to enhance our cosplay?
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
it's more dismissive than derisive at this point. a meaningless blanket term lazily thrown into an argument they don't really care to engage in
talking about bad analogies...
Blackface is mockery. This is adoration. And it's not even exaggerated, she did her best to look as close as possible to the actress.
I get that it could be considered offensive to some people, but I would argue that it's such an innocuous offense that its not worth bending to the whims of sensitive Tumblr types.
I get that it could be considered offensive to some people, but I would argue that it's such an innocuous offense that its not worth bending to the whims of sensitive Tumblr types.
ReturnOfTheRAT
Member
ITT I've been told by a guy that people of unspecified races, probably including his own, that do not find this racist in the slightest, lack empwthy. That's absolute bulshit.
Then we have references to blackface which is intended to dehumanize and caricature people, being brought up in this instance. It shouldn't. It isn't on the same level or league. No harm caused. No belittling either.
ãInaba Residentã
Banned
This is a fair point. She didn't HAVE to darken her skin. But she did want to be as accurate as possible and part of the character's appearance is that she's black. She isn't exaggerating features(nose just looks poorly done) or mocking black people.
captainpat
Member
Do people really think that just because you didn't intend to offend somebody it make you're actions ok or not racist? Cause I'm pretty sure it's possible to be racist purely by ignorance.
D-Wade dressed up as Justin Timberlake.
This is probably more offensive than the OP's cosplayer simply because Wade looks completely inhuman like this.
Confirmed racist.
Summer Haze
Banned
A good cosplay is a good cosplay, but I wouldn't have any problem with a black man or woman painting their skin white in order to portray batman, who is white. And if the make-up was done well, I'd prefer it. As long as it's not being done in order to mock or belittle a race, I see NO issue.
What? The bolded parts were "have" and "well"...she doesn't HAVE to paint her skin black in order for her cosplay to be WELL done, but there's no doubt that painting her skin black is more accurate to the character she's portraying than if she was to leave her skin white.
Why not? Seriously, why not?
BattleMonkey
Member
Being ignorant and being racist are two completely different things
PhoenixDark
Banned
I'm going to go out on a limb and say the vast majority of black people wouldn't be triggered by a god damn Walking Dead cosplay. You've introduced quite a slippery slope.
You're saying you can see absolutely no merit in the comparison I'm putting forward?
Just because historically something was done in a tasteless and offensive way doesn't mean anyone doing anything slightly similar with completely different intention should be associated with it.
The historical blackface you're referring to is entirely different in style and intent.
Identification tattoos in concentration camps were different in both style and intent to tattoos people choose to put on their bodies.
It's a comparison I'm making to draw attention to how ridiculous comparing the old to the new really is.
Another comparison would be to say that just because black cartoon characters in old cartoons were portrayed in a pretty racist manner, we shouldn't allow black characters in modern cartoons.
SillyEskimo
Member
But then you're trying to imitate a person's race rather than the character they're playing. If Michonne was played by a white character, do you think a black woman would have to color herself white to pull it off?
LilWayneSuckz
Member
This x 1000.
This is exactly how I feel.
I do not believe she herself is racist, however what she did was ignorant and offensive. She and others should take this experience and information and rethink how they view dressing up as characters who happen to be races different than they are.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Whut
Because Batman's costume is iconic enough that the character is easily recognized without changing skin color (especially since only his mouth is visible).
Unless you believe skin color accuracy is paramount...
Arthr2ShdsJcksn
Banned
Racism is like porn it that you know it when you see it.
This is not racist, nor in poor taste. It's really well done. I do think the intent of the person donning the makeup has a huge part to do with it.
This is not racist, nor in poor taste. It's really well done. I do think the intent of the person donning the makeup has a huge part to do with it.
Summer Haze
Banned
This. Some people seem to be confusing the two.
captainpat
Member
Definitely not, if anything they kinda go hand in hand.
Schweinehund
Member
If they want to.
Colour themselves white to look like a white character?
Yes, obviously. You would paint your skin the same colour as somebody as part of attempting to look like that person.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
You're making bad analogies into an art
That wasn't my question. Why can't a black man paint his face white was the question. Sure you don't have to but why shouldn't he?
Uhh, a part of cosplaying is making you look like the character. If I cosplayed Michael Jackson, I would draw a cleft on my chin and make my nose look narrower, for example.
This is different. Batman could conceivably be recreated as a black Batman or Asian Batman because he's a cultural concept now more than a character that only exists being portrayed by one actress. But let's say a black dude wanted to dress up as Edward Scissorhands, then he'll yeah he shouldn't be afraid to go for it and paint his face white.
Summer Haze
Banned
This has everything to do with it, imo. Her intent is to admirably portray one of her favourite characters in one of her favourite TV shows. If people are getting offended at someone who had absolutely no intent to offend or belittle anyone, then I think they need to take a step back and ask themselves what exactly about this offends them.
Time to exterminate all those dark skinned south europeans and Guidos then brother!
Not remotely true. Else we wouldn't have white folk across the internet arguing down minorities about how it "isn't offensive" and that we are "too sensitive" and how "it's a tribute" or "just a joke".
PlayALLtheGames
Banned
A racist is someone who believes race determines behavior and who proliferates racial stereotypes.
This is one context where blackface is not racist, though possibly insensitive. If she was carrying watermelons and speaking ebonics, it'd be racist.
This is one context where blackface is not racist, though possibly insensitive. If she was carrying watermelons and speaking ebonics, it'd be racist.
Arjen
Member
No, don't agree wit this at all.
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